Oceanians still poor amphibs on land under 3.01?

[Gandalf Parker]

Graeme Dice said:

Because it is quite obviously broken. A capricorn that sneaks onto an enemy land province loses the ability to move out of that province. If you touch his orders at all, it changes from hide to defend, and he attacks the province without you being able to change it back.

Thats why I asked.
Is that due to poor amphib?

[Foodstamp]

Play the nation IMO. It is beyond broken. These "so called" bugs are real bugs, such as the not being able to move certain commanders that are hidden in a coastal province. And the balance issues are very real as well.

Let me restate what I said in the bug thread, I don't mean "I don't want to move the guy because he will get attacked". I mean the game does not allow you to move the guy, sometimes it glitches and switches the unit to "Defend" when you click on him, with no way to set it back to hide, sometimes you are able to set it back to hide by randomly clicking him and clicking all over the place.

Either way, I know alot of non-oceania players are viewing this externally and thinking these bug reports are just whines, but honestly, this nation is not that superhot in the water, and they are beyond horrible on land. Atleast in my MA experience of playing them multiplayer and singleplayer.

I don't think this nation was ever playtested, or if it was, wow GG.

Let me go ahead and address the scissors, rocks, paper stuff that is sure to follow this post. The people complaining about Helheim/Vanheim are not crybabies, they are doing so because there are real balance issues with those nations. I did not post in that thread mind you, but I have watched you guys dismiss their claims as them being new to the game and not understanding the nuances.

Well it is the same deal here, except this nation is at the bottom rung, and may not receive attention in an official balance patch becauce veteran players don't play the nation, yet dismiss the glitches and unbalances publicly in threads.

[Zen]

Yes, they are buggy. I will be addressing them, or if people would rather have a quickfix mod to do a quick replace, I could cobble one together, or PDF is also very good at those.

[Foodstamp]

A few suggestions that would make Oceania (Middle Age) a more balanced nation...

Give land form stealth to the sea form stealthers. This eliminates the mentioned problem of units getting stuck in provinces and gives them an ability that sets them apart from the other water nations. (Could be done in a mod)

Change the starting force of Oceania to all amphibious units. Under optimal settings, Oceania can be placed in a water province completely surrounded by land. This has happened to me 3 times including in a multiplayer game that I am having difficulties advancing past my starting province because of the mediocrity of the amphibious units and the fact that half my starting units are aquatic. (Once again, no core game code change here).

Oceania is in dire need of some national spells. An amphibious or aquatic summon would be awesome, something along the lines of water/nature that is a little bit better than sea dogs.

Give Sirens 10 leadership.

The above are changes I feel could help Oceania in the early game and well into the game, without unbalancing them in the least bit.

Now as a fan of Oceania, the below changes are biased desires that may or may not be balanced. (Wishful thinking )

Capricorns to attract amphibious allies in a similar fashion as pangaea attracts Maianeds. Less per turn than their Pangaea counterparts, and just as mediocre.

Sirens to have air 2 in land form instead of air 1.

[Zebion]

These "so called" bugs are real bugs, such as the not being able to move certain commanders that are hidden in a coastal province.

The game mention theys lose stealth once they hit the land, I mean that is clearly defined right there,they LOSE stealth,so the only problem the bug should be is that they automatically attack once they move to it it.

[Foodstamp]

Play the nation FFS and try it before posting. How many times do I have to repost "No one is complaining because they lose stealth on land, its the faulty mechanic that is attached to the transition".

For the 1000th time here is what happens...

The unit stays hidden in the land province even though it is in land form with no stealth. This is all fine and good unless an indepedent event or an enemy takes the province.

The unit is now hidden in an enemy province. Other stealthed units can atleast move out of an enemy province. They don't even have to sneak out, they can MOVE out. Capricorns cannot do that.

Capricorns can do NOTHING. Pay very close attention to this next part...You cannot touch your Capricorn, without risking changing his order to defend. Once his order is set to defend, the bug makes it random whether or not you can reset him to hide. Sometimes you can do it by reclicking him and randomly clicking on the map, sometimes you can't.

Once again, it is not a whine about the capricorn losing stealth, it is a faulty mechanic because he gets to hide on land even though he does not have stealth.

****THIS IS NOT A WHINE ABOUT CAPRICORN STEALTH ON LAND, THIS IS A REAL GLITCH IN THE GAME, PLAY OCEANIA AND TRY IT****

It's like you read the first line of my reply then posted.

[Zebion]

so the only problem with the bug is that they should automatically attack once they move to it it.

I should've wrote that better,but I agreed with you that it's a bug,but it's not exactly a life threatening bug like you make it out to be. How does not being stealthy on land make the nation "Broken" except for the part where you can't move them out because you thought they would be stealthy on land?

Although they should start with all amphibious units though in case of randoms little placement of them in a small lake.

And also, Cool yourself,this isn't exactly a situation which requires you to be so angry.