Will Vanheim Ever Become Spayed?

[curtadams]

Just a note for people dumping personal criticism:

You do know that personal criticism reduces attention to and acceptance of your claims, especially when the target was involved in the Dom3 project?

[Epaminondas]

curtadams said:
Just a note for people dumping personal criticism:

You do know that personal criticism reduces attention to and acceptance of your claims, especially when the target was involved in the Dom3 project?

1. While I am loath to make "ad hominem" arguments as a rule, in some cases they are valid.

And honestly, I find most of Gandalf's posts on threads of this nature worthless, because you know exactly what he will say and he rarely even tries to make "arguments."

And please note that I made criticisms regarding the type of arguments (really "assertions") he makes, rather than making comments about his mother or directing graituitous epithets at him.

2. Who cares if he was a beta tester or even more heavily involved in the development of Dom III?

There are tons of people in this world who are "involved" in projects but are in reality deadweights contributing nothing to those projects. I suppose we should take Dan Quayle seriously when he discourses upon geopolitics because he was the VP?

Besides, even if Gandalf really understood the game inside-out, the acid test is still to translate that "knowledge" into persuasive--or at least intelligible--arguments. Bromides like "every side has its advantages and disadvantages" do not make intelligent arguments.

[Corwin]

Why don't we all cool down a bit?

Gandalf has been very valuable member of Dom community for as long as I remember, which goes back to Dom2 beta days. (when I was actively lurking on this forum) Yes, sometimes he takes position that I personally think is incorrect, which sometimes may correspond with original dev visions. Like in this case of Helheim/Vanheim issue. But this is understandable, since he was part of this vision and had certain influence on it. However calling all his posts worthless is totally uncalled for - he contributed a lot to the Dom community.


Also devs do listen to us MP players. In the latest patch for example, they reduced cost of vastly underpowered Oni demonic troops - something that me and other MP players have been vocally complaining about. (granted, the current price reduction didn't go nearly far enough unfortunately, but it is certainly a step in right direction) It shows that they do care and they do listen.


Personally I am reasonably sure that devs will do something about Helheim and MA Vanheim in the next one or two patches. These 15 pages long thread clearly shows that there is a overwhelming general consensus among MP players (which I support) that units of those two nations are currently too good for their price/stats - on these 15 pages only two people posted any objections.


However making personal attacks does nothing to help your cause, quite an opposite.

[BigJMoney]

If this thread gets locked I won't be alarmed or disappointed. I think we've covered everything, at least voiced all the major concerns, and the thread is now boiling down to a little bit of seething, which is absolutely unecessary. I don't agree with the way some of the other side's arguments have gone, but the truth is that we are all entitled to an opinion, even if it is stated in an illogical manner. I think there are enough people here to make decisions for themselves about whether a person's opinions prove valuable or not; I don't think anyone need point it out.

Let's also remember that the majority of the people posting in this thread do not represent the majority of the people who play this game regardless of how good the arguments are. And no matter if we are right or not, this game is the dev's baby, and they are going to have some personal feelings about the issue. The only thing that personally surprises me about this issue is how beloved the Vans must be to them as a nation, yet they don't go all the way to ensure their proper balance in the pack. But hey, if you can't beat `em, join `em. I'll just play the Vans as I feel fit (except to stray to other nations occasionally to make sure I'm actually good at the game). This issue certainly isn't worth getting upset about. If anyone has any more points to make about the issue and not about other peoples' points, you might get the chance to squeeze them in, `ere we remain.

=$=

[Epaminondas]

Corwin said:
Why don't we all cool down a bit?

Gandalf has been very valuable member of Dom community for as long as I remember, which goes back to Dom2 beta days. (when I was actively lurking on this forum) Yes, sometimes he takes position that I personally think is incorrect, which sometimes may correspond with original dev visions. Like in this case of Helheim/Vanheim issue. But this is understandable, since he was part of this vision and had certain influence on it. However calling all his posts worthless is totally uncalled for - he contributed a lot to the Dom community.

I don't want to endless clarify and restate my position because 1) it is tiresome, and 2) it detracts from the thread.

But the continued misrepresentation of what I said by Gandalf's fanboys leaves me no choice.

Please note that I did not say "all his posts" are "worthless." I endeavor to be precise in my language, even on game forums.

What I did say instead is that Gandalf's posts are "worthless" when it comes to "threads of this nature": that is, threads where national or unit imbalances or comparisons are discussed.

Again, as a long-time lurker, I appreciate that Gandalf has made many invaluable contributions to this community, and I have even learned much from some of his posts. Moreover, he seems to be one of the nicer guys on this forum: witness the equanimity with which he takes some of these sharp criticisms in stride.

Nonetheless, all that cannot immunize you from criticism if you say something utterly devoid of persuasive force.

[Gandalf Parker]

Your position is fine. And Im not very good at specific comparions where people break it down into specific numbers.

I only wade in when a thread starts to paint such a bleak picture that it might scare off newbies reading here, or worse someone who has yet to purchase the game. I think its misleading to call such catastrophic results when it affects only a portion of the player base. In this case it appears to be MP on small blitz maps with no victory conditions.