Alexander's Ever-Expanding Tome of Knowledge, pt 2

[HoneyBadger]

The Wyrm is a fine Pretender, there's no question of that, but the thing that makes an Ancient Kraken outshine a Wyrm is the Kraken's efficiency in dealing with large groups of creatures. Large groups of creatures-and you'll learn that this is much truer in Dom3 than it was in Dom2-are very common, and can be the bane of many an SC. Most don't deal well with them. The Gorgon is one that does, because of her inherant Petrification. 200 units attack most SC's and you've got 199, maybe 198 units, and a very dead SC. 200 units attack a Gorgon, and you've got an art museum full of classics. The Kraken also deals well with large groups, and it's got three ways to deal with them better than a Wyrm. 1: The Ancient Kraken has 4 tentacle attacks-8 with quickness-each able to instakill a single medium-toughness armored unit. 2: Poison cloud-the Kraken doesn't even need to specifically attack a unit to weaken those around it-and you can easily add Breath of Winter on top of that, making for two different types of damage, which is hard for large armies to be resistant to. 3: Rejuvenation-my personal favorite inherant ability. Rejuvenation isn't easy to get-easier than petrification or immortality, but still not a dime a dozen. No matter how many healers you happen to have, they're never going to be as efficient as a creature that heals itself, no muss no fuss. Plus-and this is the most important-I just like the idea of playing an enormous ancient giant badass ship-devouring kraken. I don't get the same thrill from a Wyrm. I don't know why, but I don't. Maybe if it had more heads?

[Aleph]

That's cool if it comes down to preference. I just don't see the edge; the Kraken needs to spend a round casting personal regeneration, so that's another damage shield that the Wyrm could have up, and with the additional item slots (both inherent and due to lack of need for poison protection and air breathing) and lack of need for Nature paths you can produce more Wyrms more quickly, so I think we're back to a conversation similar to the Mictlan bless strats. Some like super quality, others are happier with high quality in quantity.

Edit: Or a Carrion Dragon, which has a lot of the properties you like in the Kraken but more so - 8 attacks per round before quickness, recuperation, fear +10 - but can also raise the dead and when Gift of Reasoned has the benefit of already having 1 level each of nature and death, allowing you to avoid the 1st point premiums when empowering.

[HoneyBadger]

Oh yes, I love the Carrion Dragon. As far as I'm concerned, with the Gorgon and the Ancient Kraken, it's the third corner of the Holy Triumvirate of Dom3 SCs.

I just wish it were amphibious and/or immortal, but then I wish Ancient Kraken had 6 tentacle attacks (or ideally the 4 it currently has plus two killing-arms, like a real giant squid) 5% natural regeneration, an extra misc. slot (accounting for 10 total tentacles) and a bite attack.

Yes they would be overpowered. Yes, I would certainly give them a price-hike. No, they wouldn't be overbalancing, because they're still 1 unit moving 1 province a turn, and they still have plenty of disadvantages.

I think many Pretenders-SC Pretenders anyway-in Dom3 could use significant physical boosts, (not magic-path boosts mind you), to make them more outstanding compared to the droves and droves of units usually present in a game. Whatever it is, it's a GOD and gods should kick a godly amount of explitive.

The Gorgon, the Ancient Kraken, and the Carrion Dragon are the only Pretenders out there (that I am familiar with) that you can use continuously-from the beginning of the game to the end of the game-as lone province-taking SC's without risking death/crippling affliction. I don't think this is right.

Keep the multitudes of units on the battlefield, but bring back the SC, I say.

[mivayan]

HoneyBadger said:
The Gorgon is one that does, because of her inherant Petrification. 200 units attack most SC's and you've got 199, maybe 198 units, and a very dead SC.

Equipping a charcoal shield (7 ap fireshield) works pretty well too against weak foes.

Aleph said:
Edit: Or a Carrion Dragon

It can cast soul vortex, but it cant regenerate (unless you play pangea and cast the right national priest spell). No regeneration seems so scary against lifeless units.

HoneyBadger said:If I can take out a hundred of the other guy's troops per SC of mine, and still keep the SC, it could very well decide the game, even if I'm putting all of my astral pearls into SCs. After all, I'm going to have a lot more of them than the other guy, because that's one thing R'lyeh's good for.

One risk of a solo 300-gem supercombatant in late late late game is running into a squad of 20 blood-3 mages. Each scripted to cast "life for a life". Total cost 20 blood slaves for 800 armor negating damage at range 100/precision 100.

[HoneyBadger]

Yeah, SCs aren't the answer to every strategy problem. I wouldn't solo any 300-gem SC in anything but an early to early-mid game, though. The idea of a 300-gem SC isn't that you solo him, it's that you group him with 4 of his buddies, put a tough army and lots of magical support behind him, and use him as a high-powered shock troop/support unit that you can send head-on into large groups of the enemy and don't have to worry so much about losing.

Basically, it's a main tank.

[void]

shall i say that, 12 abominations kill units much faster than a single (empowered or whatever) kraken--much faster than you can ever imagine, while 12 juggernauts spreads your dominion like crazy.

yes, abominations can be summoned underwater;
no, even ocean races are able and should build labs above water and casting spells from there.

btw, i'll be very happy to use a group of 50 abominations against 4 ancient krakens, and i'll be even happier to use 250 abominations against 20 krakens, assuming i have an equal "magical support" on the battlefield.
tough army or not, it doesnt matter....

[HoneyBadger]

Void, maybe we should just play rock-paper-scissors, that way we've only got 3 choices and we always know who's going to win. It'll take a lot less time.

[HoneyBadger]

Maybe you could even use two hands to play, while I could use the larger SC giant foam football hand to play, and then we could both post strategies for the "best way to play"?