My thoughts on the concept of the SE5 Design

Santiago · #1 January 24th, 2007, 01:47 PM

That's kind of a narrow view. So anyone who doesn't want to play a mod is out of luck in your viewpoint? As I said in the "Whats wrong with SEV thread":

Mods should enhance the playability of the game, not become the game.

Noble713 · #2 January 24th, 2007, 02:38 PM

Gotta agree with Suicide Junkie. Does anyone think Half-Life and countless other FPS games would be as popular as they are without mods? The basic multiplayer in HL is pretty crappy. It's mods like Counterstrike and Day of Defeat that have propelled it into the stratosphere.

Just look at the numbers from Gamespy:

Quote:

250,147 gamers are online right now
Game Players
� Half Life 98,668
� Half Life 2 79,149
� Battlefield 2 19,146
� Battlefield 2142 14,338
� Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory 13,356
� Call of Duty 2 7,784

Eight years after its release and HL still dominates the genre. I can guarantee you those people aren't playing stock.

Quote:

Mods should enhance the playability of the game, not become the game.

Why does the origin of the content matter, as long as it is fun?

Suicide Junkie · #3 January 24th, 2007, 10:11 PM

All you have to do is download (one click!) and unzip (Drag and Drop).
After that, the mods have equal or greater support and visibility than stock.

If somebody complains, and we point them to the fix for that problem but they refuse to use it, well frankly that is their own damn fault.

On the other hand, if you are implying that the mods should be included in the public patches Aaron gives out ... I think that is a great idea.

President_Elect_Shang · #4 January 24th, 2007, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Suicide Junkie said:
...if you are implying that the mods should be included in the public patches Aaron gives out ... I think that is a great idea.

Oh man; how long till modders start complaining the patches are coming out to fast for them. They can't keep up with deadlines. Who is going to hand hold them through the proper updates when MainStrings.txt picks up a new line or two. Who is going to check that they patched their mod properly if they aren't beta testers with the latest patch already? Who Aaron; no way will that work. It should be the players responsibility to update their copy. It's not like we modders place ourselves on the top of an ivory pillar and become impossible to contact. There is no reason why a player can't contact the author of a mod for update support.

Fyron · #5 January 25th, 2007, 05:29 AM

New lines in mainstrings.txt are trivial to add to all mods in a scripted process, so that bit isn't a concern for compatibility issues. New lines in components.txt et all have traditionally been optional (refer to vehicle list override, all sorts of additions to mounts (shield modification)), so are also not a concern.

Suicide Junkie · #6 January 25th, 2007, 06:02 AM

Keeping up may or may not be an issue.

But consider if the mod folders were installed, along with a mod_definition that gave a nice description and provided a download link?

President_Elect_Shang · #7 January 25th, 2007, 11:13 AM

Fyron they may be trivial to you but I guarantee at least one modder will complain that they can't make the deadline and need another day which stretches into more days. Do we delay the patch? Or are you saying that Aaron should set up some kind of script to add the missing critical lines?

SJ can you flesh out your idea more? What do you mean by the mod folders? Would they be dummy folders with the description and link or would they be folders with the above and the latest *turned in* copy of the mod? Still that is a lot of extra work for Aaron to do and I can't see it being done. He would need to set up a repository of sorts were we could upload our latest version. Then when it came time for the next patch it would all get wrapped into one nice package. Now that brings a new set of security issues to the table which again Aaron would have to set up. The idea you propose is very appealing. The only way to get it to work is to make Aaron's portion of it virtually hands-off. Put that big analytical brain of yours to work and solve this one. Must be as fool proof as possible, simple so modders can't screw the system up, and hands free for Aaron. Put the responsibility on the modder.

Fyron · #8 January 25th, 2007, 02:42 PM

Yes, I am saying Aaron would set up a script to add the missing lines automatically... It's a 5-10 minute job once a patch.

I don't think SJ was proposing that every mod under the sun be included in the patches, but just a few particular mods.

Suicide Junkie · #9 January 25th, 2007, 02:44 PM

The "dummy" or prototype mod folders would be like that, yeah.

Including the whole mod would make the patch sizes way too big. But advertising their existence wouldn't hurt at all.

President_Elect_Shang · #10 January 25th, 2007, 04:24 PM

Using a dummy system would be great. It would avoid all the issues of keeping updates running. Excluding certain mods so only particular ones are included shows favoritism and elitism and would automatically negate the validity of such a noble endeavor. For example which of you two play my SFTC or Lite? Have you even tried it yet? Does that mean I would be included or excluded? Anyone who applies to have a dummy folder for their mod should be allowed to participate. Otherwise who amongst us is so qualified as to determine who can be included and who can't? Using a dummy system; as you point out SJ, will keep the download times down... short(?). Now this is only for mods, images and the like shouldn't be included. Well maybe UI improvements too.

Anyway we agree that it should be a dummy system for mods. Now SJ how can a system like that be implemented so it takes Aaron virtually zero effort? how is this for tossing ideas out. Sticky post here, SpaceEmpires, and whatever the other "official" site is asks for modders to place a dummy folder with a good link in it. Then just before the next patch a few of us round them up and paste them to the Beta site. Finally Aaron copies them into the update, zips it up, and poof off it goes? What kind of plan is that, where are the holes, how can it be made better? Final thought. Is there a way that the link can be built into the Mod_Definition.txt? This may be shooting to high so blame it on my lack of technical knowledge. What I have in mind is the player downloads the update with the dummy folders and a "dummy Mod_Definition.txt". When they start SE5 they see the selection screen and if they click on the duumy mod it gives a short description (this part would need to be limited to a certain number of characters) and also a link to the download site. How feasible is that?