Stellar Manipulation

[Argh]

Actually, here's how I used the strat: I blew up every system that was currently weakly inhabited or "buffer" systems that I could control temporarily. . . I didn't use it as an instant death-blow precisely because I figured this would be useless for PBW. As a very new player(I just got this *and* TWE for Christmas) I've been searching for the same techniques that were so useful in MOOII- optimization strategies.

Blowing the suns of "buffer" systems means that you *always* get a serious advance warning that your opponants are mounting a counter-attack, as even the fastest ships in un-modded SE:IV cannot cross from one warp point to another without being detected, if not intercepted and destroyed

This is not an inconsiderable advantage when fighting an extended war- plus, as you take systems that aren't particularily nice. . . you can destroy them, too, and thus rid yourself of a system you can't afford to adequately defend and leave future opponants with an even longer rush distance. . .

So it's not about supplies. . . which quite frankly, I've never run out of, even in extended campaigns. . . it's about creating distance, denying resources/future gains, and denying your opponants the ability to surprise you while you continue to optimize your tech.

Needless to say, this ain't a "rush" strat. It takes a certain amount of both luck and pre-planning your tech tree to a high degree.

[Argh]

Oh and as for being "fair" to the AI. . . hehe, I'm planning to play humans, which are the only decent opponants I'm likely to find. The AI's reaction is too clumsy to really tell me how this is going to work when I deploy it against humans in PBW

And on the topic of diplomatic relations. . . well MOOII had a severe negative diplomatic penalty for using biological warfare. . . personally, I found it ridiculous that you could use Stellar Converters to slag every planet(but one) in a system, kill every living soul on the Last one, and reprocess the resulting asteroid rings into much better planets. . . with no diplomatic penalties, other than making the defeated empire even more angry.

At the very least, it'd be nice if SE:IV/G would at least INFORM players when a solar system has been. . . heh. . . radically altered. That should be shot heard 'round the galaxy, unless your Empire is composed of people with very heavy sacks over their heads

[geoschmo]

quote:

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Originally posted by Argh:
[QB]<snip>... here's how I used the strat: I blew up every system that was currently weakly inhabited or "buffer" systems that I could control temporarily. . <snip>....Blowing the suns of "buffer" systems means that you *always* get a serious advance warning that your opponants are mounting a counter-attack, as even the fastest ships in un-modded SE:IV cannot cross from one warp point to another without being detected..<snip>.This is not an inconsiderable advantage when fighting an extended war- plus, as you take systems that aren't particularily nice. . . you can destroy them, too, and thus rid yourself of a system you can't afford to adequately defend and leave future opponants with an even longer rush distance. . <snip>.. it's about creating distance, denying resources/future gains, and denying your opponants the ability to surprise you while you continue to optimize your tech. ...<snip>

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It's a valid strategy I suppose. IMHO the same thing could be accomplished in a much more conventional way. Taking colonies from your opponent in these border systems, planting your own if needed. Planets in border systems do a fine job of giving advance warning, with the added advantage of giving a positive cash flow, however slight. After you blow up a system you have to keep ships on hand to be able to give you any warning. Ships that cost resources to maintain.

These border systems don't have to be heavily defended. A few ships or some troops just to keep the population happy. They will go to work busily producing resources for your empire that can be used to beef up your core systems.

But when it comes down to it its just a differance of play style. Either way works. You will find though that when you start blowing up systems the other players in the game will tend to join together out of self-preservation. Just human nature. But if you get a kick out of being the bad guys, go for it.

Geoschmo

[Argh]

You're probably right Geoschmo. . . players would probably gang up on me, *if* they catch it happening soon enough. That depends on who's communicating with whom, of course. . . and whether or not the blame for the solar eruption is pinned on *me* After all, if I start with this in systems that are being conflicted by other parties, for example, or other people's border zones. . . it'll just seem like WWIII started, and maybe everybody will get in the mood.

If I don't have the resources and economy for a protacted war at midgame(and I haven't found a convenient way to "rush" this tech without being painfully vulnerable otherwise), then I deserved to lose anyhow, as at that point(from what I've been able to gather about PBW games anyhow) the AIs are usually all toast and it's up to the players as to who gets the axe first.

Of course, if I can find an ally to watch my back. . . then kitty bar the door, as thus far this has proven a rather radical monkey-wrench. I'm not sure this means that I'm a "bad" guy. . . just efficient. The game is, after all, essentially about accounting(optimization) and relationships with other players adds another random factor to the mix.

[geoschmo]

Yep, AI's don't typically Last long in PBW games. Pretty much they just serve as buffers between the players, and easy ways to pick up tech and planets when they inevitably surrender.

A lot of PBW games don't even bother with AI players. If they do the real game doesn't really start till they are gone. At least in my experience.

And I didn't mean bad in the literal sense. It's just a game after all. The best PBW games are the ones that start to feel like a story after a while. And every story needs villans.

Geo

[Q]

Interesting points of view.
Due to my time limitation I play against AI and I always thought to destroy planets or entire systems is not a useful strategy against the AI. Because in the time and with the resources that are needed to build these stellar manipulation ships I could build troop transports, troops and conventional attack ships and conquer these systems and planets, which allows me to expand much faster. But I always supposed the stellar manipulation might be very valuable against human players!
However you have one important advantage pointed out: the buffer system. If a system is completely destroyed it can't be colonized of course. This will prevent the AI to claim the next system - which is yours - and therefore he will not attack this system.

[Argh]

Hrmm. I think I'll blow up every system surrounding my "core"- a group that represents my principal resources, etc. . . and see if I *ever* see an AI player show up. Interesting point there, I didn't know that the AI wasn't able to think about an area. . . I noticed it was overly preoccupied with individual systems(although it's not as flawed as MOOII's AI, which could be tricked into attacking the same system over and over again).