Hidden in Snow

Saxon · #1 February 26th, 2007, 11:03 AM

45 months to replay the investment cost? Gosh, that is 3.75 years, I wish I could get the apartments I bought to pay themselves off that fast, it is a great deal�

However, back to the game, it is a long pay off period. However, you do also get the mage and trolls, who you should be able to use to take new provinces and recover your investment faster. If they can get a single province with a single gem site, it is only 22 months to recover costs in gems alone, but that would also give you gold income as well. If they are your first gateway to ocean provinces, they will pay you back many times over However, if you are just doing it for gem income, I am not so sure it is the best value.

Kalin · #2 February 26th, 2007, 01:01 PM

Not only do you get the gem cost back (isn't it 55 gems?), which is easily done in a large game of back and forth battles, but you also get a ton of regenerating meat shields for your armies... and they can go into water.

If you're already an aquatic nation, then sea trolls might not be as great, but if you're not, they are a great deal.

You tell me, what other easy summon actually gives you back it's gem cost? Even if it doesn't fully return it's initial cost, everyturn that goes by with the sea king alive, the gem cost of the summon is effectively reduced by one.

If you're playing a quick rush style game, you might never even get the spell researched, so there's no point talking about it. If you're playing a medium game, then sea trolls can be a very cheap summon if you split the kings out (to refund yourself and cast more later). In a long game, the kings work like clam shells for pearls. Sure, they aren't as effective, but with the meat shield involved, I don't see how you can say that it's not a good investment.

Sombre · #3 February 26th, 2007, 01:18 PM

Maybe you got that response because you initially seemed to suggest suiciding the trolls so you don't have to pay upkeep for them and basically using the spell entirely to get more gems via the kings.

I also find it hard to see how going for kings to get more gems makes sense. You'd have to be playing a huuuuge game for 45/55 turns to be a sensible amount of time to wait. If you have the time and resources to set something like that up my feeling is that you could have done a thousand other more effective things to help you win instead.

Nick_K · #4 February 26th, 2007, 01:32 PM

IMO The sea king spell is ok, because the king himself if a very good commander. That's not what I'm criticising... but the regular sea troll unit is just rubbish. I think they're only worth using if you need amphibious troops and can't get the (dramatically better) kydnides. Otherwise, I just throw them in an army to bulk it out and let them die.
The problem is their large size. When 1 sea troll is fighting 3 infantry then att9, def9, prot8 doesn't cut it. They tend to die if they're matched up in front line combat against any reasonable force, and I've often seen them rout fairly fast too. They are ok against independents and they could be useful if you plan on dealing loads of damage with mages or missiles and just want them to take damage for a few turns. Even then, I'd prefer, say, indep heavy infantry but the trolls can go underwater and you might have a bunch hanging around from the king summon.

Does anyone actually use the 1-gem sea troll summon though? Anyone rate sea trolls without the king?

Belcarl · #5 February 26th, 2007, 01:41 PM

Sea trolls are great really, as chaff. High hp regenerating unit. Just don't expect them to do any damage. They are there to soak up the enemies melee so you can do artillery damage.

If that is not your main advantage, other summons may be better.

FrankTrollman · #6 February 26th, 2007, 01:58 PM

Deleted.

SlipperyJim · #7 February 26th, 2007, 05:51 PM

Quote:

FrankTrollman said:
In underwater battles, it's all about armies sumo-wrestling each other while Shark Attack does its dirty work. Big piles of Sea Trolls backed up with a water mage who gets his own gems to cast Shark Attack with is actually exactly what the doctor ordered.

That's a ... brilliant ... and evil idea! Thanks muchly, Frank! My current Dom3 game is almost over, and I just preached Oceania out of existence, but that will be an excellent point to remember for a future game.