Some questions from a newbie

[Willburn]

Ok thanks Yes I was reading on p.74 where it stands "engaging in melee combat costs all of a units action points." then the example shows that moving will still allow you to attack that turn. So I was wondering if magic would be as moving. I assumed incorrectly Thanks for the answers!

[MaxWilson]

About the 2+ notation, etc:

For fatigue, the spell costs half as much fatigue if the mage has one level higher in the primary path (the first path listed, if there are two, as e.g. FFFDD is primarily Fire) than the spell requires, one third if he has two levels, etc. If the mage has too few levels to cast the spell but does it anyway (e.g. if he's a communion slave casting a spell that only the communion master technically has the paths for) he takes much more fatigue. Using a gem can boost your effective level by one.

For AoE 2+, damage 9+, etc., it depends on the individual spell. Check out DrPraetorious' spreadsheet for specifics. Here's an attempt at a link. If that doesn't work search for "Spell Modding Guide" in the forum search.

-Max

[Willburn]

Yes I know about the half reduction and 1/3, as I said this is on page 86-87. But the manual makes no explenation if this is for every spell or only for spells with the - at the end of the fatigue cost. So thats my question. If its for every spell then why the - mark? There must be somethign special with those spells since they have it.

And im still puzzled by how to know what each + adds. This isnt mention in the manual and the spells2 spreadsheat didnt make that clear either. (the modding link)

And regarding scripting mages: So if i set it to attack closest it will fire off range 1 spells when it gets into melee? Or will it just use its melee attacks?

[llamabeast]

I don't know what you mean about spells with a "-" after the fatigue, I haven't seen that. In any case, fatigue works the same for all spells it costs the amount listed if you're the level required to cast it, half for 1 level above, etc as Max described.

There's no easy way of finding out what the + adds, short of looking it up in a modding spreadsheet or something (I haven't looked at the spreadsheet Max linked to). I just generally think of it as "ooh, and this spell would be even better if it was a higher level caster". Sometimes you can guess what it'd be. For example Falling Fires has AOE 3+. I'm pretty sure the + will be 1 per level.

Touch spells are very hard to use, and in fact people have generally concluded there's no use trying to use them offensively. They're a useful backup for your mages to protect themselves from assassins and no more. They're not much use because (a) they're hard to get them to cast (once in melee mages only have a certain probability of casting anything, because of the distracting environment), and (b) it's just not safe, and your mage would almost always be better off standing back a bit and using ranged spells.

The exceptions are the large AOE ones like Flame Eruption (if I've remembered the name right). There was a thread recently on how to get some use out of them. You'll probably find it in the first few pages of the forum.

[MaxWilson]

llamabeast said:
I don't know what you mean about spells with a "-" after the fatigue, I haven't seen that. In any case, fatigue works the same for all spells it costs the amount listed if you're the level required to cast it, half for 1 level above, etc as Max described.

I thought all combat spells had the "-" after them. I don't even look any more, because as you say the "-" is implicit.

-Max

[MaxWilson]

About the modding spreadsheet: Cloud of Death for example is listed in-game as AOE 9+. That means nine squares, not a radius of nine. (Too bad.) If you look at the modding spreadsheet, it has a value (if I recall correctly) of 1002 in the AOE column. This means 1 square, plus 2 per level in the primary path (Death), which works out to 9 squares at the minimum level for casting it (4D). A 9D caster would have an AOE of 19, and since the damage is 5001 he would do 14 points of AN damage. There's an MR check, but since he is 5 levels over the check is penalized by 2. (I love that spell!)

Does that help you see how to read it? There's a README also that explains more.

-Max

[Willburn]

llamabeast your indeed right all spells do have a - after them. Should have checked more carefully (but in the spell grimorie nobody are listed with - only in game, I think thats why I tought there where something different with it. And doenst hurt to ask!)

And MaxWilson yes that does help a lot. Spell Rules.txt had the info. (not named README)

Thanks all for the help

[vfb]

MaxWilson said:
About the modding spreadsheet: Cloud of Death for example is listed in-game as AOE 9+. That means nine squares, not a radius of nine. (Too bad.) If you look at the modding spreadsheet, it has a value (if I recall correctly) of 1002 in the AOE column. This means 1 square, plus 2 per level in the primary path (Death), which works out to 9 squares at the minimum level for casting it (4D). A 9D caster would have an AOE of 19, and since the damage is 5001 he would do 14 points of AN damage. There's an MR check, but since he is 5 levels over the check is penalized by 2. (I love that spell!)

Does that help you see how to read it? There's a README also that explains more.

-Max

The AoE in the spreadsheet for Cloud of Death is 2001. Your calculation for AoE is right though, for D9 you get 1+2*19=19 AoE. If it was 1002, then that would mean AoE=2+(1*D).

The damage is also 1005, not 5001. But again your final numbers are correct, and a D9 mage would do 5+9=14 damage.

Your example just has the digits reversed, that's all.

[mivayan]

Willburn said:
And regarding scripting mages: So if i set it to attack closest it will fire off range 1 spells when it gets into melee? Or will it just use its melee attacks?

Just melee attacks. Which is a great thing when you have a supercombatant whom(spelling?) you dont want to get tired.

MaxWilson said:
I don't think you can both strike and use magic, but I *think* (never checked the debug log for this) touch spells still require a successful attack roll (and presumably the defender gets a defense roll to oppose this).

I think there's no such roll.

More importantly, there's only a 50% chance of a mage being able to cast a spell when an enemy is in hand-to-hand range, otherwise he will attack hand-to-hand.

-Max

Yup, important to know.