Why is Voice of Apsu conj 3?

[jutetrea]

Is there any reason why it shouldn't be Conj 2?

Thaut 2
Fire
Earth
Nature
Air

Evoc 2
Astral

Blood 2
Blood

Conj 2
Death

Tiamat Conj 4 makes sense
Ashaic Conj 5 makes sense

[BigDisAwesome]

I always found that odd myself.
I always wondered why all the elemental searches require 2 in that path but astral and death only take 1 as well.

[DrPraetorious]

You have to look at the capabilities of individual positions to make much sense out of the levels required for different effects.

A lot of positions either get a single death or astral on a random, or have some ability to bootstrap into a single death or a single astral via summons.

There's a similar rationale behind the placement of the different boost items - why does the water bracelet require 1W while the crystal coin requires 2S2E? Well, it's to make all the positions that get at least 1W better but not all the positions that only get 1S and no 2E.

The different magic paths are not, in fact, *supposed* to be particularly balanced or symmetrical against one another. It's the *nations* that are supposed to be balanced.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

And, if the manuals correct, the two water sphere site searching spells are able to search even hostile provinces, a unique ability. Though one of questionable utility. Still,sometimes a real good site might be reason enough to seize one province instead of another.

[Kristoffer O]

Main reason is feeling. It feels cool if it is more difficult to tap into Apsus dreams than it is to observe some flame or the flight of birds.

Asking spirits is easy, if you can compel them to speak. Dark knowledge is therefore more expensive, but easier to research.

In short there is no real reason from a game point of view. Or, the reason is the same as why spells aren't identical in dmg and dmg type. It would be boring if all spells of lvl 3 did an equal amount of fire dmg regardless of path used, or if all summoned critters had the same stats on the same lvl and only differs by sprite.

In short, it gives differentiation to the game. Also I find it cool to make things assymetrical

[jutetrea]

I usually get site searching set up early in the game, occasionally not first thing but usually. That extra 100 research right in the beginning is kind of a bummer if i'm playing a nation I usually wouldn't try to hit conj 3 with early. Difficult or very difficult research makes it much worse.

Just a preference, but I'd rather see it at conj 2 or even Alt 2. Alt 2 wouldn't be bad as it would promote the rainbow research for the rainbow site searching..everything but const.

[Jazzepi]

Kristoffer O said:
Main reason is feeling. It feels cool if it is more difficult to tap into Apsus dreams than it is to observe some flame or the flight of birds.

Asking spirits is easy, if you can compel them to speak. Dark knowledge is therefore more expensive, but easier to research.

In short there is no real reason from a game point of view. Or, the reason is the same as why spells aren't identical in dmg and dmg type. It would be boring if all spells of lvl 3 did an equal amount of fire dmg regardless of path used, or if all summoned critters had the same stats on the same lvl and only differs by sprite.

In short, it gives differentiation to the game. Also I find it cool to make things assymetrical

Hey I wanted to thank you guys for making the magic paths feel so diverse. At no time playing Dominions have I ever felt like "Oh great, I just researched nuke-3 water path" everything is thematic. I don't know if you've played supreme commander, but the units are so bland and boring, there is barely anything different about them. Some games suffer from the same thing with spells, but Dom 3 has always surprised me with how interesting and different each path/school of magic is.

Jazzepi

[Morkilus]

I really like the weird multipath spells like Moss Body and the various acid spells. If I'm playing a nation with native mages that can cast the weird spells, I'm almost always researching towards using them early in battle. Many times people know boring ol' Blade Wind is coming and prepare for it.

The Conjuration site-search spells are sometimes all you need if you're a water-heavy or astral-heavy nation. This makes it easy to go straight for the big summons and not worry about Thaummaturgy 2 , which is usually high in priority for most nations I play.

[B0rsuk]

Kristoffer O said:
In short there is no real reason from a game point of view. Or, the reason is the same as why spells aren't identical in dmg and dmg type.

Making things assymetrical is nice, but I think you should've made some gameplay excuses for this. Just like Dark Knowledge is easier to research and more expensive to cast, you could give Voice of Apsu some additional, token benefit to 'justify' its higher research cost. I hear it can be used to search enemy provinces, which is ... very ... strange. It can be used as a form of diplomacy in multiplayer. Give me some magic trinket and I'll Apsu your 2 provinces. But it's very niche.

[Morkilus]

B0rsuk said:
Making things assymetrical is nice, but I think you should've made some gameplay excuses for this.

Well, I should have been more clear, but I was trying to point out that the Conjuration site-searchers are already in a good path that pretty much everybody researches eventually. Thaummaturgy isn't that important for many non-astral nations. This makes Voice of Aspu actually easier to research if you're going for early summons as well.