Glamour post 3.08

[Gandalf Parker]

It was archers and magic.
The anti-glamour tactics I have seen include many squads of slingers. Or area affect spells and equipment. The Gall Bladder Stick was mentioned.

There is a poison spell which does the entire battlefield which is seems to be particularly effective.

[Beorne]

Ok, so vans require again very specialized tactics (the "very" means the difference between them and the other nations). I think I'll continue to ban them from my games.

[Gandalf Parker]

as compared to Rlyeh? Ermor? Abysia? Jotunheim? Oceania? TirNaGog? Ulm?

[Velusion]

I've managed to avoid them in MP play so far .

[Shovah32]

Beorne said:
Ok, so vans require again very specialized tactics (the "very" means the difference between them and the other nations). I think I'll continue to ban them from my games.

The majority of effective strategies require very specialized tactics to deal with - if they were easy to deal with they wouldnt be effective. Your chaff and archers wouldnt have been particularly effective against most good E9N4 sacreds(they have reinvigoration, high protection and regeneration - all things that counter chaff and archers) and would probably have been ineffective against a number of other things. A group of ulmish infantry with flails backed by a couple of elephants/black knights would also probably have broken through a group of chaff and archers, does that mean MA Ulm is overpowered and should be banned?.

You cant honestly expect a group of archers to do alot against high protection, regenerating troops with shields and a horde of chaff was also a mistake as superior mounted troops(with naturally low encumberance) with higher stats, regeneration(to heal and lucky damage you inflict), reinvigoration(you cant just wait for them to get worn out) and higher stats(1v1 they will destroy chaff) can keep fighting almost indefinitely against weak troops.

[Jazzepi]

Shovah32 said:

The majority of effective strategies require very specialized tactics to deal with - if they were easy to deal with they wouldnt be effective. Your chaff and archers wouldnt have been particularly effective against most good E9N4 sacreds(they have reinvigoration, high protection and regeneration - all things that counter chaff and archers) and would probably have been ineffective against a number of other things. A group of ulmish infantry with flails backed by a couple of elephants/black knights would also probably have broken through a group of chaff and archers, does that mean MA Ulm is overpowered and should be banned?.

You cant honestly expect a group of archers to do alot against high protection, regenerating troops with shields and a horde of chaff was also a mistake as superior mounted troops(with naturally low encumberance) with higher stats, regeneration(to heal and lucky damage you inflict), reinvigoration(you cant just wait for them to get worn out) and higher stats(1v1 they will destroy chaff) can keep fighting almost indefinitely against weak troops.

Oh please, then enlighten me to what MA Argatha is suppose to do against the vans. As I said, the chaff was a part of a greater strategy. The idea was to earth meld them, so their defense would be abysmal, and just let the chaff wail away on them. I also researched my way to destruction.

Jazzepi

[atul]

Depending upon the research levels, a group of Sentinels can keep W9F9 blessed Vans put for several turns while indy archers and Golem Crafters casting Magma Bolt deal with the damage part (Ench4/Evo3, Attentive Statues (Ench3) might also work). I don't know how well that would work in the field or how cost-effective it'd be, but at least you can make Vanheim player regret ever storming your castle.

[Jazzepi]

atul said:
Depending upon the research levels, a group of Sentinels can keep W9F9 blessed Vans put for several turns while indy archers and Golem Crafters casting Magma Bolt deal with the damage part (Ench4/Evo3, Attentive Statues (Ench3) might also work). I don't know how well that would work in the field or how cost-effective it'd be, but at least you can make Vanheim player regret ever storming your castle.

I just want to make this perfectly clear. I massed over 150+ indy archers and they were completely useless. I was sad I wasted the money on them against the vans.

Jazzepi

[Beorne]

This thread is starting to become like the other ... nobody says all nations should be perfectly balanced, every different nation has its own strength / weaknesses and so on. Is simply impossible to balance something with so many variables like dom3. But Van is much more difficult to deal with than any other.

[Shovah32]

You said you researched destruction? With it cast on the vans they should be alot more vunerable to your arrows. I know its probably quite far away but if you can research up to magma eruption those vans should drop like flies. Your sacred statues should take very little damage from the spell(cast by golem crafters with summon earthpower) and with its high damage and AoE it should devastate those vans(with or without destruction). Umbrals should be very effective due to their ethereality(as the vans lack F9) and high health and could provide a very good shield for your archers after you cast destruction(again due to high health and ethereality).
A marble oracle with a shadow brand, charcoal shield and some other protective items(lucky pendant would be good. A ring of tamed lightning would be great if at-all possible) should also be able to hold out almost indefinitely against E9N4 vans(0 enc and with blacksteel full-plate should have around 30 protection).

There are probably about a number of other ways but those are just some suggestions, hope they help.

ps: I too hate it when i waste alot of money(bought a load of tribal indy archers and had to fight MA Ulmish knights...).