New Mod Nations Game: Mods over Europe (finished)

[DrPraetorious]

Well, I don't think you handled the diplomacy deftly.

- If you cut people off, they'll declare war on you. This is a bigger problem in the middle than on the edges, I agree, but there you go. If this had been a wrap around map you'd be in the same situation in that regard, but maybe-so-would-I.

- If you don't want to fight early wars (like, right now), then even if you're in a corner you have to accept being somewhat small, which you didn't do. Even without graphs, people can generally figure out how big you are.

- If, when someone tries to negotiate with you, you threaten to throw the game to the other player, people will tend simply not to negotiate with you at all.

[Morkilus]

How's it going for the rest of you guys? I'm especially curious about Avernum; I had a pretty humiliating loss against the AI with them. I couldn't get their sacreds to do much of anything; they died too quickly. E9 bless maybe? I really like the kitty archers, however, and can imagine a nasty lategame astral powerhouse.

[Sombre]

They don't have armour, so an E9 bless wouldn't work. I think a water astral bless would keep them alive best,... but really the trick is to keep the missile fire off them.

[Jazzepi]

Sombre said:
They don't have armour, so an E9 bless wouldn't work. I think a water astral bless would keep them alive best,... but really the trick is to keep the missile fire off them.

I tested this extensively, I found a high Air bless coupled with a water bless for quickness was best, but in the end it didn't feel like it was worth it to go that route when the only H3 (mobile) priest you have is your prophet. They do enough damage as is with the blades. I wanted to play a research heavy nation anyways, so I decided against playing bless rush in this game.

Jazzepi

[Xox]

Can't connect to the server. Anyone else?

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Love the Europe map. Except it is too small for this number of players. Something about playing on Earth's natural geogrpahy is always pleasing. It also make it easier to refer to the map with other players.

It is undeniable that it makes a huge difference starting in the middle or a corner. it would be nice if someone could make a map that works to fix that. THis effect is increased by the small number of provinces per player an dthe grpahs being on also. Wraparound will help but should be on both sideways and vertical.

And I would actually prefer a good non wrapawround map that worked well for th eguys in the middle. choke points or wealth or ?

You can play with these settings, map, and # of players and 9 out of ten times the corner people will dominate and win.

I will be the first out i think. I started in the middle. I got 60 unrest on turn two due to events ( misfortune scale 2 so that happens) and with the graphs on, the scurvy dog pirates saw my weakness and struck quickly before i could recover. That's a great example of why I, personally, do not like the graphs on. I am sure Sombre used that perfectly reliable intelligence to make his decision on attacking me.

So I just want to say Jazzepi has some very good points he is bringing up. and if you are in the corner or benefit this time from graphs. try to have the vision to overcome your natural bias and see what might be best for the balance of good game.

Great mods by the way, Love Ulm reborn who I am playing this game. My apologies for not doing well by them this game.

The Pirates will be quite vulnerable at this point by the way, before they consolidate my little kingdom and the seas.

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Server connection?

[Xox]

Can't connect to the server. Anyone else?

************************************************** *


Love the Europe map. Except it is too small for this number of players. Something about playing on Earth's natural geogrpahy is always pleasing. It also make it easier to refer to the map with other players.

It is undeniable that it makes a huge difference starting in the middle or a corner. it would be nice if someone could make a map that works to fix that. THis effect is increased by the small number of provinces per player an dthe grpahs being on also. Wraparound will help but should be on both sideways and vertical.

And I would actually prefer a good non wrapawround map that worked well for th eguys in the middle. choke points or wealth or ?

You can play with these settings, map, and # of players and 9 out of ten times the corner people will dominate and win.

I will be the first out i think. I started in the middle. I got 60 unrest on turn two due to events ( misfortune scale 2 so that happens) and with the graphs on, the scurvy dog pirates saw my weakness and struck quickly before i could recover. That's a great example of why I, personally, do not like the graphs on. I am sure Sombre used that perfectly reliable intelligence to make his decision on attacking me.

So I just want to say Jazzepi has some very good points he is bringing up. and if you are in the corner or benefit this time from graphs. try to have the vision to overcome your natural bias and see what might be best for the balance of good game.

Great mods by the way, Love Ulm reborn who I am playing this game. My apologies for not doing well by them this game.

The Pirates will be quite vulnerable at this point by the way, before they consolidate my little kingdom and the seas.

************************

Server connection?

[Xox]

Sorry about the double post, I have tried deleting it about 5 times, and reposting and it always deletes boht and double posts. I don't know what I am doing wrong.

[DrPraetorious]

I've concluded that the only way to balance a non-wrap-around map is to leave the middle unoccupied.

Unfortunately I lost the script to do this in a HD crash , but if you look at the map I did for Allegiances, you can see most of what I did (I think the map file I posted is missing some large and site-rich provinces that the script added for balance, but gives the general idea.)

Giving the people in the middle wealthier/better sites jsut makes them more attractive targets for being rended limb-from-limb.

Personally, when I'm in the middle I take the Pascal's wager policy:
* If I assume that everyone is going to ally against me, I'm toast.
* If I assume that (pick an opponent at random) may leave me alone long enough to conquer someone else, maybe I'll win.

So if I"m in the middle, I make an alliance with one of my neighbors and attack somebody - just like I'd do if I were in the corner . Preferably, I attack a person who has a corner which I can then claim.

But this has not, historically, been a terribly successful strategy. It's working out for me pretty well in Sophistry - although it turns out the player I'd hoped to ignore was probably planning to attack me, and never got around to it because he was gangbanged by virtue of being in the middle .

So, my advice to Jazzepi - you should have offered to divide my lands with Sanguinia on turn 5, and then come roaring in all death and vengeance, ignoring the possibility that you'd be attacked from behind .

Seldom works, but hey - nothing ventured, nothing gained. Chance favors the bold! Death or glory! And so forth.

[Jazzepi]

- If you cut people off, they'll declare war on you. This is a bigger problem in the middle than on the edges, I agree, but there you go. If this had been a wrap around map you'd be in the same situation in that regard, but maybe-so-would-I.

The only reason it's so easy for you to declare war on me this game is because you AND your ally are both in corners.

- If you don't want to fight early wars (like, right now), then even if you're in a corner you have to accept being somewhat small, which you didn't do. Even without graphs, people can generally figure out how big you are.

I disagree with this heavily, not only do graphs tell the exact size of your nation, but they basically explain the composition of your army. For instance, I could tell you were massing a large group of low protection units backed up by your sacred tramplers just by looking at the size of your army on the graphs and understanding the units you have available to you.

Also, my insane amount of magic research was put out for display, something people would NEVER normally have access to unless they're in a fight and see a particular spell cast, but even that doesn't tell exactly how much research someone has.

By the combination of having a small army, a large group of provinces, and my huge amount of research all put on display on the graphs it's easy to tell that I would be a vulnerable target. Something that would be much harder to discern, or even impossible, without them.

- If, when someone tries to negotiate with you, you threaten to throw the game to the other player, people will tend simply not to negotiate with you at all. -

I wonder if you're curious why I simply didn't respond to your message over the forums? You constantly threatened immediate war if I didn't give you certain territories (two out of three which I conceded to you), so I find it hypocritical that you think it's bad negotiating to threaten scorched earth tactics.

Do you really think I have anything to lose by promising to attack you solely if you don't leave me alone? If I think I can heavily swing the game in my opponent's opponent's favor, and cripple the original opponent at the same time, obviously I'm going to threaten to do that. It's a big club to beat someone with diplomatically though some people won't respond to it, which is fine.

I didn't threaten to throw the game to the vampires, only to give them an incentive to finish you off and take you out of the running. If them having three capitals means they win the game, that's not my problem.

Jazzepi