Blood Magic, Demon Knights, and Vampires

[Frostmourne27]

Valandil said:

Sadly, Vampires seem woefully underpowered, having lost ethereality. Same goes for vampire lords, really.

I understand there was a thematic reason for the de-etherealization of vampires, but could we see somesort of a buff for them, and for the vampire queen, presently the most overpriced pretender of all. Maybe a second attack, possibly antoher life-drain, or maybe an AOE-type stun or something? Or general stat boosts? Natural protection to represent immunity to weapons? That's a relatively common vampire theme from what I can find online. Regrettably (from a balance POV) most of what I can find googling/wikipedia-ing, most characteristic vampire traits are weaknesses. E.g. sunlight, garlic, holy relics, inability to enter private places without an invitation, etc etc.

[Sombre]

The Conceptual Balance Mod decreases the cost of the Vampire Queen.

I don't think it does anything to improve vampire summons though.

[Juzza]

Vampires are good because their immortal, if you get say 80 of them eventually you will have an experienced army of vampires, combine that with a spell like army of gold and you have flying, regenerating killing machines, that just come back if they die. However on their own vampires kinda suck, try combining them with other strategies.

Demon knights! oh they are awesome!! I'd go for, um LE Abisya with a god that can make the magic item "boots of earth" for 10 earth gems each, they increase earth magic by 1 and you need 2 earth and blood to cast demon knight? which means when some warlocks get earth magic you can just give them the boots, and when they start getting diseased take them away and give them to another one, cause they will get diseased.

Oooooh! also there is a pure blood spell that summons Demon knights, "Ritual of five gates" summons a Demon knight, A fiend of Darkness, a devil a Frost fiend and a Storm Demon/fiend/devil all at the hefty price of 28 blood slaves.

[Burnsaber]

Juzza said:
Vampires are good because their immortal, if you get say 80 of them eventually you will have an experienced army of vampires, combine that with a spell like army of gold and you have flying, regenerating killing machines, that just come back if they die. However on their own vampires kinda suck, try combining them with other strategies.

Demon knights! oh they are awesome!! I'd go for, um LE Abisya with a god that can make the magic item "boots of earth" for 10 earth gems each, they increase earth magic by 1 and you need 2 earth and blood to cast demon knight? which means when some warlocks get earth magic you can just give them the boots, and when they start getting diseased take them away and give them to another one, cause they will get diseased.

Oooooh! also there is a pure blood spell that summons Demon knights, "Ritual of five gates" summons a Demon knight, A fiend of Darkness, a devil a Frost fiend and a Storm Demon/fiend/devil all at the hefty price of 28 blood slaves.

If I were to play LE abysia, I'd make a god who can forge Blood Stones (Earth2,Blood3, Construction4, Earth +1 and produces one earth gem month) and I'g give them to my Earth guys. Now they can summon Knights, produce Earth gems and not die to old age (since they now can wear Boots of Youth also). But maybe that's just me .

[Humakty]

If you have age problem, abysia warlocks can cast a blood ritual which reduce age by 10 (for ten slaves). Seems to me easier than N/W boots.

[NTJedi]

Humakt said:
cast a blood ritual which reduce age by 10 (for ten slaves).

As a side note for everyone: This spell does not work for the undead Tartarians and the spell will still take your blood slaves.

[Burnsaber]

Humakt said:
If you have age problem, abysia warlocks can cast a blood ritual which reduce age by 10 (for ten slaves). Seems to me easier than N/W boots.

Expect that many of them are over 10 years old age. So you'll have to cast it twice. Besides, Boots of Youth are pure blood item (con6, blood2 to forge).

[duke_commando]

Maybe vampires should get some natural protection, like ten or so, since they're supposed to be hard to kill and all.
With this and regeneration they'll be strong but can still be killed by enough regular troops.

This would make the VQ pretty uber if you gave her etherealness through items, but if you're gonna spend 175 points she should be badass.

Right now with no protection and mediocre defence they even fail against archers in melee without enchantments. Seriously, I don't even trust them to take out militia.

[Chris_Byler]

Why did they lose etherealness anyway? Even if they were overpowered it seems like the wrong fix, taking away one of their thematic and interesting strengths. They could have just lost some strength, skill, MR, or had their cost increased (and the number that appeared in a random event decreased). Now they can be killed easily with conventional weapons, which is inappropriate and pathetic.

I realize that vampires and the VQ could be abusive in Dom 2, but with all the other changes that have come since then, I think they may have been overnerfed.

[Folket]

Ethereal are not thematic. Vampires were not ghosts last I looked. Perhaps that they could have a change shape command and become an ethereal cloud of mist.