New Russian OOB (or SPR OOB)

[KraMax]

foto unit 084 - Chiorny Oriol:

www.pecypc.kz/kramax/chiorny_Oriol.bmp

[KraMax]

Welcome All.

I wish to tell - the basic changes which we have made in our OOB.

1. Tanks: we systematised and have divided a control system of fire into generations. Also we have considered separate upgrades of tanks.
2. Very seriously we have changed almost all dates of our arms.
3. We have changed almost all the speed long our units.
4. We have reconsidered accuracy and range of all our arms according to game formulas.
5. We have renamed some our arms and units.
6. We diversified infantry parts of our army.
7. We have cleaned from OOB the nonexistent weapon and units.
8. We have more precisely made ours formations on found us data.
9. Planes and helicopters: we have changed structure of arms of planes and helicopters to realistic combinations. Also have changed speed and a control system of fire - on generations of helicopters and planes.
10. Artillery: we have changed range and accuracy of our artillery, and also quantity of an ammunition.

We wished to make our infantry states more exact, but we did not have no place for units
Also we had to clean some our units which are in our army.

We are ready to discuss and answer any your question on our OOB.

p.s. sorry for my bad English.

[Smersh]

This sounds very interesting I'm going to give this a try. I have always wanted a better infantry OBB.

What was the reasoning behind changing speed of units? I don't want it to become unbalanced.

Edit: Having looked at the changes I'm very impressed by the new infantry formations. and I also liked the splitting of tanks into Tank vs MBT formations.

[KraMax]

Smersh
--------------------
Thanks for your opinion on our OOB.

We corrected speed of units according to game rules:

MOVEMENT - SPEED OF UNITS

Fighter-bomber and level bomber Aircraft Speed: 1 pt of Speed for every 100 km/h (round up past 50)

Helicopter speed: 1/3 of actual maximum speed in km/h

Spotter Plane/UAV speed is equal to their normal air speed as calculated for fighter-bombers and bombers. The higher the number the wider the circle the Spotter Plane will fly.

Ground Speed equation is: max km/h speed divided by 3 = SPEED in hexes.

AA guns 25mm or less have 1 movement point. Larger weapons have 0.

AAMGs have a move of 2.

Certain types of terrain are are likely to cause breakdowns to vehicles entering them. This is based on distance/speed travelled (faster is worse), movement class (2WD is worse than track) and experience and vehicle weight.

[Marcello]

"Planes and helicopters: we have changed structure of arms of planes and helicopters to realistic combinations."

Speaking of which is there some online source listing typical payloads for soviet planes?
Sources typically list what they can carry in theory
but not what is usually done in practice.
Specifically what sort of weapons loads would be most common for the SU-17/20/22 and the MIG-23BN?

[KraMax]

Marcello - thanks for attention to our OOB.

I will give to you links on information sources in which it is in detail told about typical arms of planes on each model. Unfortunately links only in Russian, but you can take advantage of the translator.

Usually about typical arms of these planes it is written in the end of the text.
And the full list of every possible arms is after specifications in the end of page.

Here link on a site of the translator: http://www.online-translator.com/default.asp? lang=en
In it you can translate even sites entirely with preservation of formatting of the text.

If you have difficulties or you do not have time for employment by translate. I can make in detail to you normal translate of typical arms of these planes.

Su-17
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/su17.html
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/su17_1.html
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/su17m.html
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/su17m2.html
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/su17m3.html

Su-20 export
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/su20.html

Su-22 export
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/su22.html

Mig-23BN
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/mig23bn.html

On these pages all is written. From the moment of creation of the plane till the moment of its recycling. It is described as in what year it is made, by whom it is made, what arms, what equipment were established, etc.

If you have problems with translate - write here about it and I will work over text translation on arms of these planes.
Why you were interested by these planes?

[KraMax]

Su-17 typical arms:

Fighting loading to 4000 kg is suspended by a lump on 6 hardpoints: 2 body and 4 fly. On Su-17M3 the quantity hardpoints is increased on 2. Su-17M4 has already 10 hardpoints: 4 body and 6 fly. Fighting loading is raised to 4250 kg. Thus 2 central hardpoints are intended only for a suspension bracket Ur of a class "air-air" R-60.

The first serial Su-17 did not bear the operated weapon of a class "air-surface". On the subsequent updatings this lack has been eliminated, and on 2 internal hardpoints UR (Manual Missile) or KAB of various types are suspended. Su-17M first took Kh-23M and anti-radar Kh-28. Later the nomenclature has been expanded by possibility of suspension bracket Kh-25 and Kh-29L. Su-17M2 also bore all aforementioned systems. The given updating of the first in family Su-17 has received UR R-60 on arms. Su-17M4 are capable to bear the most various scale of operated arms: KAB-500l bombs; corrected rockets S-25L; UR of types Kh-25ML/MR, Kh-27, Kh-29L/T; anti-radar UR Kh-25MP, Kh-27, Kh-58.

All updatings undertake in blocks NURS of types S-5, S-8 or S-13, and also single NURS S-24 and S-25. Among other types of pendant arms are registered aerial bombs of calibres from 100 to 500 kg; cluster bombs RBK-250 and RBK-500, gun containers KMGU; incendiary tanks. Under SChK 2 1156-l or 830-l PTB also are equipped.

Su-17 And Su-17M were equipped bombing sight PBK-2 and shooting ASP-5ND-7. On Su-17M2 instead of the last has been established more perfect ASP-17.

The equipment of management the "Delta" placed in the pendant container was applied to prompting UR Kh-23M. For prompting Kh-25ML and Kh-29L the laser station "Projector" also placed in the pendant container is used. On Su-17M2, besides the given station, the laser range finder-tseleukazatel “Fon-1400” is established. On Su-17M3 instead of it sight ASP-17, the indicator of direct visibility, station of the prevention of radar-tracking radiation “Sirena-3”, etc. The onboard radar-tracking equipment is established more perfect “Klen-54”. Also are established to shoot traps and dipoles KDS-23 and ASo-2V. Some planes for the control of results of bombing have chamber AFA-39.

[Marcello]

"Why you were interested by these planes?"

I am reworking the iraqi OOB and I am checking planes weapons loads. For the early planes like
MIG-15bis/MIG-17F/MIG-19S etc it is relatively easy: they have 2-4 hardpoints which can carry a very limited selection of bombs/rockets. For some others I found some typical weapons loads (for example four FAB-250 for some MIG-21 variants).
Later things get more difficult: let's make an example of my problem.
The Su-7BMK is listed to have six hardpoints, each of which in theory can carry several types of weapons (ranging from FAB-250 to S-24 rockets).
In practice however four of those hardpoints are always used for fuel tanks. So the typical payload would be limited to something like two FAB-500 or two UB-16 rocket pods.
But more capable planes like the SU-20/22 or the MIG-23BN
can carry more and different types of weapons.
Would a SU-17M3/SU-22M typically carry two rockets pods + two RBK-500 + two FAB-250 rather than two RBK-250 + four FAB-250?
What did the soviet air force arm them with usually?
I wanted to know a few typical configurations for these planes and the MIG-23BN. I will see what I can get with the automatic trsnalation.