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  #1  
Old April 3rd, 2008, 03:08 PM
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Default Re: Iraq errors report

Quote:
DRG said:
You do realize how all this totally buggers up the picklists don't you ?
Unfortunately yes, as I have had to deal with that issue myself.
What I am doing is compiling a list of issues with the iraqi OOB, with their possible solutions and the relative sources all in a single thread to be used for reference purposes. For the present time I am concentrating mostly on the units themselves.
I do understand they cannot be all implemented in the short term because a lot of work would be necessary to modify the formations and the picklists to accomodate the units changes.
The problem of course is that the iraqi army ceased to exist in 2003 and did so in a pretty throughout manner.
The personnel dispersed and the infrastructure and equipment were aggressively looted (tank engines ripped out to make village generators, artillery scrapped etc.).
The new armed forces have been rebuilt little by little and many capabilities have not been implemented yet.
In game terms this would mean that for example that the old iraqi army artillery formations would stop at 4/103 with new ones startng at 1/109 (or whatever) and the picklists would have to accomodate that. As I said I understand it is a lot of work and this thread is meant to be mainly as a reference for eventual future patches.


Quote:
DRG said:
Did you overlook or ignore units 53 and 54 yesterday?
Don
Unit 53 was one of those listed in the first page to have a start date which was a bit off, other than that is OK. As for unit 54 I am not sure as of yet. I have seen photos of insurgents using 82mm RR but I don't know about the 107mm ones.
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Old April 4th, 2008, 01:36 PM
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Default Re: Iraq errors report

Some chinese weapons that should be added to the game as Iraq purchased and used them in some numbers during the Iran Iraq war. I suggest availability dates in the 1/84-4/103 range for the AA guns and 1/84-12/120 for the 107mm rockets, as they are still in use by the insurgents.

Type 65 AA gun
http://news.webshots.com/photo/13094...67710444IPjOZq
http://photobucket.com/mediadetail/?...&pageOffset=11
http://photobucket.com/mediadetail/?...&pageOffset=14

Type 55 AA gun
http://photobucket.com/mediadetail/?...n&pageOffset=1
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/l...NST9208063.jpg

Type-63 107mm MRL
https://naveodtechdiv.jeodnet.mil/IraqOIG/iraqoig.asp
SIPRI registers
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Old April 9th, 2008, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: Iraq errors report

The new iraqi army has been using T-72 since the end of 2005. Judging from the pictures they appear to be T-72M/M1 variants (mostly T-72M).Hungary was the supplier.

http://www.defendamerica.mil/article...111405tj1.html

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...planned-01512/
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Old April 9th, 2008, 04:07 PM
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Default Re: Iraq errors report

Could we assume they are both using the same "gun" then ?

Don
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Old April 10th, 2008, 04:27 AM
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Default Re: Iraq errors report

Game wise I think that weapon n.158 in the iraqi OOB would be a good fit. That would also avoid using up another weapon slot.


EDIT
In reality what type of ammunition has been purchased so far was not specified. For all that it is known they might have got BM-15 past their expiration date.
However they are purchasing additional T-72M/M1 from eastern countries with the goal of fully equipping a tank division (the others divisions would eventually get western tanks) and I would guess that the above gun would be the best candidate for the sort of ammo that would realistically be aquired.
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Old May 16th, 2008, 11:44 AM
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Default Re: Iraq errors report

Some additional stuff, for eventual future patches.

Formation 205, Inf-AT Section and 206, Mot Inf-AT Sec.
Incorrect availability date: they begin at 1/55 but the template unit is available since 1/46.
The formations should begin at 1/46 too.

These two formations have availability dates 1/70-12/120
Formation 36, Motorised Co
Formation 51, Motorised Pl.
The only difference from formations 35 (Motorised Co) and 50 (Motorised Pl) is the presence of an organic SAM.
To the best of my knowledge there is no reason why such unit should have an organic SAM in the 70's while republican
guard mechanized units should be without in the 80's.
I suggest the following change
1) Formations 35 and 50 have their final date extended from 12/74 to 4/103
2) Formations 36 and 51 have their availability dates changed to 1/105-12/120
3) Their structure could be changed to reflect the
new iraqi army organization: a command section (one squad and two HMMWV) and four platoons with three squads
and three APCs each.The organic SAM should be deleted of course.(although new iraqi army organization is still somewhat fluid)

Formation 6 Tank Co (SPG)
Formation 7 Tank Co (FT)
Formation 9 Tank Co (Amph)

I suggesto these formations to be deleted.
The standard iraqi tank company pre OIF was composed by a
two tanks command section and three tank platoons with three tanks each as correctly portrayed in the game now.
There is no indications that formations like the above were employed as standard and in any case
cross attachments can deal with the any specific needs.

Formation 15 Amphib Tank Pl

End date should be restricted to 4 of 103.
There is no sense in it going on after the PT-76 are phased out.

Formation 18 SP-Gun Pl

It might be asppropriate to restrict the final availability date to 12 of 1988 instead of 1991.
As far as I know the vehicles in this formation were gone before 1991.T-55/54/59/Type 69 were in
plentiful supply by then, making those vehicles redundant after the end of the war with Iran.
According to "T-34-85 Medium Tank 1944-94" by Steven J. Zaloga some T-34s were dragged
out from storage to replace wartime losses during the war with Iran (exact timeframe is not specified but
from some pictures found www.militaryphotos.net it would seem in the first years of the war).

Also a close support T-34 should be made available, with 2/59-12/88 as availability dates.

Unit 8 M47

The iraqis did not make substantial use of captured tanks (unlike APCs and SPAs).
Some Chieftains were handed to the Mojahedin-e Khalq who may have driven them out of their storage sheds
once in a blue moon or so until OIF. But that's it. If any M47s were captured they were parked somewhere.

Unit 36 Assad Babyl

I suggest icon to be changed to that of a regular T-72 and final date to be extended to 4/103.
While the tank looks a bit different from a regular T-72M1 if seen from certain point of view
it is not enough to warrant a different icon.
http://www.jedsite.info/tanks-tango/...byl-intro.html

Unit 25 T-62A

Availability dates should be extended to 4/103. Otherwise the only T-62 left after 1981
is unit 26 T-62M. This in the game sports a laser rangefinder, which iraqi T-62s typically did not have.

Unit 45 ZSU-23-4M
Availability date should be anticipated to before Kuwait invasion.
1993 is puzzling as a starting as date effective sanctions were already in place.


Unit 67 BMP-1a

Up armored BMP.There were two up BMP armoring projects.

http://www.jedsite.info/fulltrack-br...dam-intro.html
An 80's up armoring program prototype, which was probably not put in production.

And a less extensive one, which may have seen limited production.
http://www.jedsite.info/fulltrack-br...am2-intro.html

It should be decided which one this unit should represent.

Unit 332 TO-62
It should be deleted.
I have asked around and it seems that either it never existed or if it did it was a prototype/limited production item not exported.
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  #7  
Old May 25th, 2008, 02:17 PM
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Default Re: Iraq errors report

Iraqi T-62 tanks. Two main versions were used in the Iran-Iraq/Gulf war period

The "vanilla" type

http://64.40.99.49/Multimedia/pics/1...photo/1217.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesdale10/2267829065/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/snakeblocker/48227102/

The "improved" type

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/l...62-11_iraq.jpg
http://www.silentlywedefend.com/T62.JPG
http://news.webshots.com/photo/10327...34874941aEiYcL

About the only difference I can spot is armored protection for the IR projectors, (although there may be further differences in things like sand filters and what not).
In any case nothing that would show up in the game stats. A small number was fitted with
Type 69 style side skirts but that's it.
If any were fitted with laser rangefinders I have never seen them (an addon LRF would have been external
in that timeframe), although I have heard (but not seen) that at least one prototype was made fitted with it and
I cannot rule out a limited batch production. So, as I noted in the previous post there should be
T-62s without LRF available in the 1980-2003 timeframe and they should be prevalent.


Units 28,586 and 617: TR-77 tanks.
I suggest their availability starting date to be anticipated to 1982
(currently they are available since 1987).

Unit 617 is available until 2020 but all the T-55 type tanks in the new iraqi army service are T-55/type 69.
Final date should be 4/103 at the latest.

According to the SIPRI registers about 150 of these tanks were delivered between 1982 and 1984. Realistically I doubt those few tanks may have survived past the Gulf War, maybe not even the Iran-Iraq war. They certainly should not be available past OIF.

Unit 523 BMP-1a
Same issues as unit 67.
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