OT: Our Economy (US)

[Kinboat]

Wr8th said: 'Yes I can argue it when it's viewed as an entitlement that everyone has a god-given right too without the reasonable expectation that they contribute positively to society themselves'

It's exactly this attitude that some people are more entitled to the basics of human existence that propagates discrimination and hatred in the world. I can only hope if you ever find yourself without food that someone with more compassion will be nearby. Who gets to decide what a 'positive contribution' is? You? Me? Whoever it is won't be fair, everyone has their own biases that they lug around. I have already devoted two years of my life volunteering for others, and I didn't even ask them if they 'earned' my help... I did it because all human life is precious, regardless of their value in the eyes of this government.

[wr8th]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kinboat:
Wr8th said: 'Yes I can argue it when it's viewed as an entitlement that everyone has a god-given right too without the reasonable expectation that they contribute positively to society themselves'

It's exactly this attitude that some people are more entitled to the basics of human existence that propagates discrimination and hatred in the world. I can only hope if you ever find yourself without food that someone with more compassion will be nearby. Who gets to decide what a 'positive contribution' is? You? Me? Whoever it is won't be fair, everyone has their own biases that they lug around. I have already devoted two years of my life volunteering for others, and I didn't even ask them if they 'earned' my help... I did it because all human life is precious, regardless of their value in the eyes of this government.

---

Spare me the sanctimony. As if your personal stint at volunteerism gives you special priviledged insight or that you're the only one to do so.... Please.

Who are you to presume what I've been through?
I'm for giving people a hand-up, not a hand-out. Like helping those who've exhibited the strength of character to try and help themselves and their family (an example of a positive contribution) but have fallen short and are too proud to ask for assistance. A silent, sometimes anonymous hand-up leaves them with more than just the immediate tangible benefit, it also leaves them their integrity. I know. Too many (not all) expect hand-outs simply because they've found it expedient and have been socialized to feel it's their right.

[dmm]

Well, I know one example of what is NOT a positive contribution: lying around doing nothing but getting drunk or high. Can we all agree on that? It seems to me that the only kind response to that is to forcibly take away the addict's freedom long enough to dry him/her out. But some people don't like depriving addicts of their right of self-determination. OK, if that isn't allowed, then the only kind thing to do is to let them get so hungry that they are willing to commit themselves to a detox center. To give an addict free food and shelter is extremely cruel in the long run.
And I submit that the same argument applies to lazy good-for-nothings; it is just not so obvious.
And Lastly, I say why do these extra rights stop at food and shelter? What about clothing, education, transportation, entertainment, recreation, etc.? And it has to be good stuff, because surely dignity is also a basic human right. Would you deny another man dignity, you cold-hearted SOB?

[edit: everyone recognizes the sarcasm at the end there, right?]

[ 10 April 2002: Message edited by: dmm ]

[Krsqk]

Is that something like the idea that the best expression of parental love is not to give a child everything he wants? *gasp* And I thought a five-year old was the most qualified individual to determine exactly what's best for himself.

Bottom line: Best is not synonymous with warm, fuzzy feelings. In fact, warm fuzzy feelings aren't indicative of anything (except sitting with your leg crossed for so long it fell asleep).

[ 11 April 2002: Message edited by: Krsqk ]

[tesco samoa]

Link...

Not my view point or endorced. Just an interesting read.
http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/5208
http://www.ips-dc.org/comment/raskinsigners.htm

[ 11 April 2002: Message edited by: tesco samoa ]

[Wardad]

I just recieved this from a friend. What do y'all think?


>
> STOP PAYING FOR ECONOMIC AND HUMAN TERRORISM!!
>
> I hear we are going to hit close to $3.00 a gallon by
> the summer Want gasoline prices to come down? We need
> to take some intelligent, united action. Phillip
> Hollsworth, offered this good idea: This makes MUCH
> MORE SENSE than the "don't buy gas on a certain day"
> campaign that was going around Last April or May!
>
> The oil companies just laughed at that because they
> knew we wouldn't continue to "hurt" ourselves by
> refusing to buy gas. It was more of an inconvenience
> to us than it was a problem for them. BUT, whoever
> thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can
> really work. Please read it and join with us!
>
> Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have
> conditioned us to think that the cost of a gallon of
> gas is CHEAP at $1.50- $1.75, we need to take
> aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control
> the marketplace....not sellers. With the price of
> gasoline going up more each day, we consumers need to
> take action. The only way we are going to see the
> price of gas come down is if we hit someone in the
> pocketbook by not purchasing THEIR gas! And we can do
> that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. How? .
>
> Since we all rely on our cars, we can't just stop
> buying gas. But we CAN have an impact on gas prices if
> we all act together to force a price war. Here's the
> idea: For the rest of this year, DON"T purchase ANY
> gasoline from the two biggest companies (which now are
> one), EXXON and MOBIL. If they are not selling any
> gas, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If
> they reduce their prices, the other companies will
> have to follow suit.
>
> But to have an impact, we need to reach literally
> millions of Exxon and Mobil gas buyers. It's really
> simple to do!! Now, don't wimp out on me at this
> point...keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is
> to reach millions of people!! .
>
> I am sending this note to about thirty people. If each
> of you send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)...
> and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 =
> 3,000) ... and so on, by the time the message reaches
> the sixth generation of people, we will have reached
> over THREE MILLION consumers! ..
>
> If those three million get excited and pass this on to
> ten friends each, then 30 million people will have
> been contacted! If it goes one level further, you
> guessed it..... THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!! .
>
> Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people.
> That's all. If you don't understand how we can reach
> 300 million and all you have to do is send this to 10
> people.
>
> How long would all that take? If each of us sends this
> email out to ten more people within one day of
> receipt, all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be
> contacted within the next 8 days!!!
>
> I'll bet you didn't think you and I had that much
> potential, did you? Acting together we can make a
> difference. If this makes sense to you, please pass
> this message on. PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL
>
> THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES AND KEEP THEM DOWN. THIS CAN
> REALLY WORK. YOU KNOW THEY LOVE HOLIDAYS AND SUMMER
> TRAVELERS.
>
>
> STOP PAYING FOR TERRORISM!!!!!!
>
> Note the following information:
>
> Every time you fill up the car, you can avoid putting
> more money into the coffers of Saudi Arabia. Just buy
> from gas companies that don't import their oil from
> the Saudis.
>
> Nothing is more frustrating than the feeling that
> every time I fill-up the tank, I am sending my money
> to people who are trying to kill me, my family, and my
> friends. I thought it might be interesting for you to
> know which oil companies are the best to buy gas from.
>
> Major companies that import Middle Eastern oil (for
> the period 9/1/00 - 8/31/01).
>
> Shell................ 205,742,000 barrels
> Chevron/Texaco....... 144,332,000 barrels
> Exxon/Mobil.......... 130,082,000 barrels
> Marathon............. 117,740,000 barrels
> Amoco................ 62,231,000 barrels
>
> If you do the math at $30/barrell, these imports
> amount to over $18 BILLION! Here are some large
> companies that do not import Middle Eastern oil:
>
> Citgo 0 barrels
> Sunoco 0 barrels
> Conoco 0 barrels
> Sinclair 0 barrels
> BP/Phillips 0 barrels
>
> All of this information is available from the
> Department of Energy and can be easily documented.
> Refineries located in the U.S. are required to state
> where they get their oil and how much they are
> importing. They
> report on a monthly basis.
>
> Keep this list in your car; share it with friends. And
> Stop paying for terrorism.............

------------------------------------------------

OIL BURNS!!!

[tesco samoa]

A big pile of....

I think it is nice that they added the terrorism bit.... ask your friend for the proof and facts that this message is delivering.

I also love the math on the 3x10x10x10 factor with a ratio of one to one on the unique friend list.

but think about this.

For this to be true then

Everyone is the middle east is a terrorist

Refinerys from non-middle eastern countries do not purchase oil from the middle east.

That Citgo to BP refinerys are not at 100% or close to 100% production capacity. Because if they are then they will run out of gas. Which should cause the prices to increase. And Citgo to BP to purchase there gas from the refinerys that would have produced gas to shell to amoco or from middle eastern countries to cover the increase in production.

Unless economics and supply and demand work differently.......

So tell your friend to to tell 10 other friends that this is bull*&^%.

And within 8 days 300 million people will know that

Later Wardad.

That's what I think.

P.S.

No personal insults were intended.