Jomon advice wanted

[Pablomatic]

Good stuff. Thanks everybody. I do appreciate it.
I tend to play thematically, which makes me balk at a Ghost King or Cyclops pretender. This is why I like the Celestial General. He has an awesome standard, and should be a decent SC if I can ever get there, though his paths aren't what I'd like for Jomon. I might go with either a Lady of Fortune, Lord of Plenty, or an Enchantress. A Crone might be perfect, but I can't stomache having an age problem with my pretender.
I guess I will bite the bullet and go for production 3, and maybe Luck 3/Disorder 3.

Another question.JimMorrison said he likes an earth bless for Jomon. I can't understand that. Since Jomon's mages aren't sacred, they get no benefit from the reenvig. Sure the pretender gets a benefit, but there's no other real use.

Also, does anybody know how/if the Lord of Plenty pretender brings "good fortune to those around him."

[atul]

Crone loses her age problems the moment you take a nature magic pick. Or two, can't remember for sure. As to earth bless, if you have heavy sacreds, reinvigoration and extra armour help them a lot. But really shouldn't bother with Jomon's troops...

[Micah]

I think Jomon's summons tend to be sacreds, so they do get help from an E bless, but that's not a great reason for a huge one. If you're wanting to use Dai Oni they'd benefit from a couple of points of reinvig for sure.

And I reiterate my pretender suggestions, celestial general is crap. If you want to splash around in the kiddy pool of playing thematically be my guest, but it's frustrating to be asked for strategy advice and then have it dismissed for non-strategy-related reasons. And just to make it clear, this is NOT a minor point for Jomon. They are one of the worst nations in the game to attempt to play without an awake, functional SC pretender to get some resources into their cap and money into a second fort as soon as possible.

[Pablomatic]

Hey Micah. Don't be frustrated. I didn't dismiss your strategies. Ok the Celestial General is crap. Fine. I really appreciate your advice, and I'll try it out.

[Pablomatic]

Just seems like every nation should take a Ghost King, or a Cyclops, no matter what. Well, that's a slight exaggeration, but reading through the strategy guides, those seem to be the most common, with perhaps a vampire queen thrown in.

Guess I need to start powergaming if I want to try MP, or I won't last long.

[Micah]

sorry if I was grumping at you.

You're pretty much right on the pretender choice though...there's a choice between GK, clops, PoD and Wyrm for early SCs (with a few nation specific choices such as the risen oracle, gorgon, and colossal fetish as well.)

The fear/awe combo is just too damn good to pass up, and the celestial general doesn't have fear (he isn't as bad as I thought though, since he IS armored at least, but his encumberance value is a problem for extended fights, which will happen due to the lack of fear...Actually, if you give him enough death magic to have a fear value he might be a viable option, though it'd be somewhat inefficient. Play with it if you'd like, it might provide a decent compromise for theme.) If you haven't tried it go ahead and give it a shot, you'll be amazed at how well they go together against indy chaff.

If you don't have an awake SC you need to have an imprisoned bless chassis (and good units to use it with, Jomon's don't qualify), which is also confined to a handful of different choices.

[MaxWilson]

Micah said:
If you don't have an awake SC you need to have an imprisoned bless chassis (and good units to use it with, Jomon's don't qualify), which is also confined to a handful of different choices.

Is that really true? Bless is just a way of boosting certain unit stats so you get more killing power for a given pound of gold. If you have good, solid national troops, they can expand quite well even if they're not sacred. Functionally-speaking, a dual F9W9 bless in the early game is just a way of killing indies faster and more efficiently. You can get the same effect on expansion in some cases by having a 50% larger army from good scales. This is especially true if your army has access to good missile weapons, which scale better than footmen in heavy plate. (LA Agartha is lots of fun with a good bless but in practice armies of crossbowmen with some light infantry guards expand better than uber-blessed Blindfighters.)

Consider how valuable mercs are for expansion, and then consider that most mercs are pretty average as national troops go--and they're almost never used with a bless.

-Max

[JimMorrison]

Pablomatic said:
Another question.JimMorrison said he likes an earth bless for Jomon. I can't understand that. Since Jomon's mages aren't sacred, they get no benefit from the reenvig. Sure the pretender gets a benefit, but there's no other real use.

First I would like to point out that though the "cyclops" is a western name, Japanese folklore has mountain warrior spirits that could be adaptable, with a little imagination.

I tried the earth bless with Jomon because your sacreds start at 14 prot. Since you have samurai with No-Dachi and 16 prot, and other people have 20 prot heavy infantry, I went in the direction of having better tanking power. The difference between 18/20 prot seems small against conventional troops, but yours are better offensively, and get the reinvig for staying power, especially important against a cold/heat scale enemy.

As far as the mages not being sacred and not getting the reinvig, it seems that the Shroud of the Battle Saint is 0 Enc and only costs 5 pearls to make. That's a pretty cheap investment for 4 reinvig, and whatever else they might get (+2 morale for mages, yay!).


I am kind of new-ish, so I don't see quite the necessity of such strict adherence to a small list of pretender choices. Obviously, some of the pretenders are just shabby or in no way cost effective, but it all comes down to strategy, and if you think yours through well enough, just about any pretender should be capable. Just don't get too pissed off when someone's cyclops shows up at your capital on turn 5. >.>