Forthcoming patch notes

[Tifone]

To me this is just not a "computers' power" issue... It is a logical issue - that battles that last a long time aren't placed in a limbo out of the world, but it's normal that after a while both defenders and attackers have their reinforcements arrive, and need to reorganize.

For the battle's timing too, 50 seem a lot, and just right. I mean, after 3 turns waiting, the most of the troops need to attack or retreat. That's maybe one turn to reach the enemy and then 44 to bash each other. It doesn't seem so restrictive.

I just would like someone to tell me what can an upper turn limit add to the game experience - actually, I see no advantage. While the things as they are have the advantage are:

-low-systems friendly for no long waits
-logical for the needs of the armies to reorganize
-a balance issue as the troops you have in the proximities of the battle (near provinces) should be able to join the fight after some time.

Really, why do you ask for an upper turn limit?

Even an adjustable issue - I dunno. Wouldn't that create a lot of confusion for the MP games? I mean, having battles ending at 50 turns or at 200 goes for a ground-breaking change in gameplay. Deciding a turn limit for every MP game, while many adjusts it in SP the way they like, could end up being uncomfortable for people used to different battle tactics.

I don't wanna do destructive criticism for that. I would like someone explaining me the point, if there is any. Peace

[Tifone]

Zeldor: why a battle should last more than 50 turns? Because the attacker didn't bring the necessary amount of... let's call it "firepower", to get rid of the defence in that province.
He went deep into enemy territory, where the PD, the paesants keeping the supplies, everything is against him - and he wasn't able in a 50 turns fight to clear the province of the defenders. The battle lasted more than one month. Isn't it obvious that now his soldiers need to retreat to a friendly province (or at least try to) to reorganize, resupply, have reinforcements? Don't the defender after 50 turns have the right to receive the reinforcements coming from the friendly provinces?

Historic realistic example everybody know: WWI. The war of attrition - no faction having at the borders enough soldiers to conquer the enemy territory. The fights didn't last forever till one side won the territory - they lasted months, with the dying soldiers being replaced continuously.

If you tell me that some spells and some situations bring this "turn limit rule" to a bug/exploit level, I can agree that it is unfair. But I think maybe those spells need an adjustement, like it is gonna happen for the MoD phantasms, not the whole turn limit system.

[Twan]

Tifone said:If you tell me that some spells and some situations bring this "turn limit rule" to a bug/exploit level, I can agree that it is unfair. But I think maybe those spells need an adjustement, like it is gonna happen for the MoD phantasms, not the whole turn limit system.

Try playing the Jotun with a E9N10 bless and use werewolves in shroud of battle saint + ring of regeneration (40% regen), with reinvig boots and MR amulet and buffed with luck and body ethearal of course.

These berserk unkillable werewolves make any battle against a big conventional army last 50+ rounds, in most situations they win in defense about as surely as a MoD spell (hum yes there are some % of chance to counter them with slaying spells or some lucky critical hits, K will probably post an example). But due to their berserking their superpower turn against them in attack were they are often autokilled in attack in round 75, if opponents are numerous enough.

A turn limit around round 100 would make more of these battles end by a real victory or defeat instead. A "conventionnal end" being the matter of some lucky critical hits or unlucky moral check finally rolled by the troops surrounding the werewolves, any turn added would reduce the chance of auto-victory/defeat.

[Zeldor]

Nah, 50 turn really promotes undead, as they don't rout with turn limit. Or paralyzing someone for 30 turns. Or berserk troops. Losing sides get some of that and battle goes on to turn75 because of that and winner routs.

Another thing is mindless commanders vanishing at turn50. That is not funny.

Many battles just deserve to be resolved on battlefield, not by some virtual turn limit that forces whole army to spread into neighbouring provinces.

[Tifone]

Omnirizon - I support you in that.

Zeldor - I don't want to be critic, but we are discussing and you're still not bringing me a reason on why aren't those situations you mentioned to need some kind of adjustement, but the whole turn-limit system Am I wrong? Peace friends

[Zeldor]

Tifone:

I said it -
"Battles should be decided on battlefield. "
You kill the enemy or force him to rout, so you won. But being lucky or just using ways to stale [even if they also require planning] is not how battles should be won.

[Tifone]

mmh... but why not? staling tactics, waiting for 1) your reinforcements to come from the rear lines keeping the enemies at bay or 2) your rear lines to organize better the rearmost defences, are the bread and butter of the military campaigns.
Have you ever played Call of Duty, seen Saving Private Ryan (last battle), seen the movie 300?
If you did you know what I'm talking about Sometimes battles last more than one month because the defenders of one territory, even if doomed to lose on the long time, just doesn't want the enemy to pass through a point immediately and come out with tactics to slow him. Even in real world, without fatiguing magic So why to change this well-implemented feature in the game?

[Omnirizon]

dom3 is a game more about options than realism. that said, i'd ask first what allows for more options: 50 turn limits or 100? or 200? or whatever.

realism is decentered term anyway. does making a game more 'real' actually make it more real?

[Sombre]

Bottom line is the devs apparently didn't intend for BEs to stay up after the caster retreats.

The MoD issue brought this into focus, but they fixed what they considered to be wrong, which wasn't just MoD, it was the way they all worked with retreat.

I agree with them but even if I didn't I'd just have to get used to it.

[WraithLord]

I don't think anyone here suggests nerfing fatigue or delaying battle tactics.

If you could delay for 50 turns, with longer limit you'll need to delay for 100 turns or more. Its doable.

The turn limit need to be upped so that mindless SCs will have more time to win (if they can); so that huge armies could battle it out and most importantly for the game to scale well and be playable in the long future.