3in 20cwt AA and 3.7in AA not found?

[montieth]

British weapons can be confusing.

Is that the 3.7" HAA gun? Or is that the early limited pattern 3.7inch infantry howitzer that was obsolete by the middle of the war? If the range isn't around 18,000 yards, then its probably not the 3.7 HAA vickers.

Ordnance, Q.F. 3.7-inch How Mk 3 on Carriage Mk 4P
http://members.tripod.com/~nigelef/37inchowsheet.htm

The 3.7-inch How was designed before WW1 but did not enter service until about early 1917, and was used in Palestine and East Africa with both British and Indian mountain batteries, although the first users were probably the Hong Kong & Singapore battery with the Imperial Camel Corps in Palestine. Between the wars they were used on the NW Frontier of India and developed a reputation for accurate and consistent shooting. During the 1930's they were also used in light batteries in regular British infantry divisions. Designed as pack artillery they could be disassembled and carried by mules or towed by short draught (no limber). In the 1930's they were further adapted for vehicle towing, the Mk 2P carriage. During WW2 they had some use in European and African theatres and initially with airborne batteries, being generally but not entirely replaced by 75-mm M1, 3.7-inch How batteries accompanied 1 Cdo Bde across the Rhine at Wesel in 1945. However, they were most widely used in Burma, mainly by Indian mountain batteries but also by British field and light batteries, and continued to serve on India's NW Frontier. A few were also used in Guadacanal by RNZA and New Guinea by RAA. Production was transferred to India and during WW2 798 carriages and 805 ordnances were manufactured there together with some 2.7 million HE rounds. A HEAT anti-tank shell was specifically developed and produced for use in Burma.

Ahh, found a good data point on Nigels Page.
http://members.tripod.com/~nigelef/otherfp.htm

Anti-Aircraft Artillery

As the war progressed the air threat decreased and both heavy and light AA units were used in the field role. HAA batteries equipped with the 3.7-inch HAA gun had long range (18,600 yards at full charge), unrestricted top traverse and were typically handled as medium artillery, and often used for CB tasks. Their high rate of fire and time fuzes were an added bonus, the latter were particularly useful. In Italy statistics reveal that many HAA regiments fired only a few thousand rounds at air targets but perhaps 50 times as many at ground targets! Most of this fire was indirect although HAA units were not officially issued with the necessary fire control equipment until late 1944. A reduced charge was introduced for ground fire in order to reduce barrel wear.

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One problem was that AA guns were designed to fire short bursts at infrequent targets. However, in the field role, particularly 3.7-inch when firing as part of a fireplan, they were required to fire for periods of a few hours. This caused equipment failure and the guns got so hot that paint on the barrels blistered and on one occasion at least the barrels were visibly drooping. A second possible issue was that 3.7-inch HAA shells had been designed to produce quite large fragments to maximise damage to aircraft. This meant that a burst produced fewer and bigger fragments that needed to create battlefield casualties. Of course this didn't matter too much when neutralisation was required.

In the final months of the war in NW Europe HAA brigades were used as AGRAs in major fire plans.

[cbo]

Came across this in my files. It was posted by J.McGillivray on the old AFV-News forum back in March 2004:

I have done some more digging and have found more information about the use of the 3.7 in AA gun in the ground role. In particular I came across a copy of “A History of 2 CDN HAA Regt 1939 – 1945” which was published in Soesterberg, Holland in Aug. 1945.
By late in the war the 3.7 in AA gun had three types of ammunition, HE, Shrapnel and AP. They were equipped with telescopic sights, and the crews had training in both direct and in-direct ground fire.

“Hitherto the regiment had been concerned only with AA firing. By this time, however, the use of HAA units in the ground role had been considerably developed. The German 88 mm had been so employed to good advantage in the Spanish Civil war, and in Africa; the gunners with the 8th Army had also on occasion used their 3.7 guns against enemy columns and concentrations. The School of AA Artillery had produced the first drills for the 3.7 equipment in the ground role and these drills were taught to the Regiment by a visiting IG during October.” (1942)

“During the summer (1943), guns were modified by the addition of ‘Middle East’ sights – telescopes that permitted the more accurate engagements of tanks and close targets;…”

“Gun detachments practised for one day at Beachy Head anti-tank ranges on 27 Jan, (1944) with sad results to the ranges. 3.7” AP shot was not available, and plugged ammunition was used instead, on the theory that, with no fuzes, the HE rounds would not burst. As it was the gaines could not be removed, and shock of impact detonated a high proportion of rounds, practically destroying the very elaborate tank runs built by the Canadian School of Artillery.”

2 HAA Regt landed in France on the 6th of August, and their first shoot occurred in the early morning of 8th Aug. as part of the fire plan for Operation Totalize. Between 8 Aug. and 31 Dec. The 24 guns of 2HAA fired a total of 56,959 rds. Of this only 406 rds were fired in the AA role. By the end of April the Regiments ammunition expenditure reached 112,678 rds. The guns were often used in the counter battery role where they fired air bursts over German artillery, mortar and flak positions.

96 3.7” guns were used in the fire plan for Operation Veritable, which made them the third most numerous gun type after the 25 pdr (576) and the 5.5” (248). On only the pre-arranged Tasks they fired a total of 48,420 rds.

The history of 2HAA contains one bizarre reference to the planned use of AP shot as followers:

“There was once, during the stay at Dunkirk, the suggestion that two troops (E and A) should also take on AA duties; these troops deployed radar and command posts accordingly. The purpose was mainly to help the Bofors guns get on target, and it was suggested that one gun of each HAA troop would fire AP shot every ten seconds and then the Bofors guns could fire along the line of that tracer. To everyone’s great relief, this scheme was soon forgotten, and there quickly faded from mind the mental images of great lumps of shot crashing through the roofs of neighbouring command posts or crashing into friendly French villages. The AA role was left to the Bofors gunners alone,…”

The problem with the gun mount of the 3.7” gun was that when fired in the near horizontal position the whole gun could slide backwards and “…guns slewed badly out of line…”, especially if the ground was soft or muddy.

cbo