Map: Glory v3.17 SP map, hand-named with start locs, v3.17_G13 (quick fix)

[Globu]

Okay, now I've got a map-editing question for anyone who feels like answering.

I'm trying to figure out when I should use the nostart flag with a province.

(1) Is it a good idea to nostart all provinces but those that are in ideal spots? (Probably about 60 or so provinces on the map, out of 605 or so.)

(2) Does SemiRandom ignore nostarted provinces?

(3) What is the best way to go about it for maximum flexibility? (So that the map can be used as is with or without the start provinces I specstarted.)

Any advice on the matter is welcome.

Thanks all.

Globu

[Globu]

I'll be posting a new version fairly soon with some corrections and adjustments. For the time being, I'd be interested to know if anyone has tried it and has any feedback. Has anyone found this useful? Any comments/criticisms are welcome (including suggestions on better names).

[Hoplosternum]

Originally Posted by Globu

Okay, now I've got a map-editing question for anyone who feels like answering.

I'm trying to figure out when I should use the nostart flag with a province.

(1) Is it a good idea to nostart all provinces but those that are in ideal spots? (Probably about 60 or so provinces on the map, out of 605 or so.)

This is the only question I can answer. For me and for most people I think the answer would be yes.

60 locations are more than enough for even those who play with all ages mods on a map of this size. And starting with a sub optimal start is not too much fun. In SP it can be viewed as a challenge but many strats and powers depend on having a decent Capital. Having just a couple of neighbour provinces or being surrounded by wasteland can seriously dent the fun. Plus it may cripple some of the AIs and quite frankly they seldom need that as bad scale choices and bad luck often does for a share of them anyway.

The map is large and lacks wrap around so is not a common pick (in the big SP version) for mp games. But if it was to be used bad start locations are a real drag. There is plenty of bad luck that can afflict you in mp without being crippled by a bad start location. So it would be a big help there too.

So I would definitely add the no starts if you can be bothered. There are quite a lot

I like the map and sometimes play sp on it. So I would certainly download your version at some stage. Especially if you no start the bad spots as that is very helpful

Fixed starts are not so great though IMHO as although you have put a lot of thought in to them I don't usually want to know where my enemies are or where I am before I start. Knowing I'm close to Neifel etc. would affect my build.

Doing a version with some set sites and fixed guards like the new version of Faerun has a lot more replay value than fixing starts IMHO. You would not want to play the same power on the same map from the same start with the same neighbours (even if the indies and sites get randomised) very often

But - at least for me - I could play the same map with some fixed sites over and over if my location and neighbours change. Even if the game is mp the fact that everyone knows where some of the good sites are (and therefore who owns them) helps as diplomacy can even things up. Owning a great construction or summoning site can paint a big target on your head

But maybe thats just me Thanks for taking the time to modify the map. I haven't downloaded it yet but as its one of my favourites I certainly will. Cheers

[chrispedersen]

Globu, I am using the Glory map for the Bid game - but I have not an ounce of artistic talent.

I had wanted to shade out kingdoms (multi provinces) and dress the map out - you can see functional yet completely non artistic result.

Would you have any interest in helping out on the artistic side of things?

[Ballbarian]

(1) Is it a good idea to nostart all provinces but those that are in ideal spots? (Probably about 60 or so provinces on the map, out of 605 or so.)

I'm a little rusty, but I suggest using #start. Just be sure to place enough #start locations to cover the number of players.

2.5.1 #start
By creating at least one start location for each
player, every player will start at one of these
locations. If #start provinces are set, nations will
start at these locations unless there are more
nations than #start provinces. If there are more
nations than #start provinces, the extra nations
will start in eligible random locations.

(2) Does SemiRandom ignore nostarted provinces?

It will ignore nostart for purposes of placing custom provinces, but it will not ignore them when placing starts (as of version 1.07). It is also worthy of noting that when it places a custom province it will mark that province as no start (unless it's intention was to place an actual start. )

(3) What is the best way to go about it for maximum flexibility? (So that the map can be used as is with or without the start provinces I specstarted.)

Include multiple ".map" files. (In my opinion. )
MyMap_WithSpecialStarts.map
MyMap_Plain.map
etc...

[Globu]

@ Hoplosternum: Awesome -- thanks for the answer and the feedback. Much appreciated.

Yes, I see what you mean about fixed starts being problematic (and tempting for prescient rushes or overland spells aimed directly at distant capitals) -- I love it for thematic value, but it's limited.

And I definitely see what you mean about bad start locations as well. I'm actually ailing in one of my test games about my set start location for Caelum because of its modest resource availability.

I will definitely make at least two versions -- one with the fixed thematic starts, and one without.

@ chrispederson: I would love to help with the map, but afraid I'm of little-to-no skill in the artistic department, myself. I don't know if I'd be any help shading regions, but I'd be happy to help out and contribute where I can.

@ Ballbarian: Thank you as well for the advice. I had been wondering about those things -- that makes things a lot clearer.

So, to be clear, if I set, say, 60 provinces to #start, it will pick randomly among those? Or will it, say, randomly assign players to the first 24 (or whatever number given the age and game layout) of them? If the former is true, that definitely seems superior to simply marking the worst ones #nostart.

And the fact that liberal sprinkling of #nostart provinces interferes with SR's fiddling only makes using #start instead of #nostart that much more preferable. (Plus marking 60 or 70 provinces is much less work than marking 500+ provinces.)



@ all
Thanks again for the feedback. I'll get to work on it shortly.

Again, to make it clear, I welcome opinion feedback on the names and the "flavor" of naming schemes. If you feel something is kinda stupid, please let me know. Naming all of them was mind-numbing, and it's probably certain that I came up with some less-desirable names...

[Globu]

Fixed a gaffe in MA Machaka's placement that meant death for Machaka in turn 2 (it was placed in the same province as another nation -- spiders got squished a bit too fast).

Also found another province, in Mictlan's rainforest, that really shouldn't be full-fledged mountain; switched it to border mountain. (The province is #286: East Chana Rainforest.)

And, as a side note, I'm playing a game with Fomoria on its island right now, and am quite satisfied with it (granted, I got a mine in a neighboring province, but still -- I am happily pumping out a Fomorian King, 10 unmarked and 5 or 6 Nemedian warriors every turn). So, at least in this instance, it seems to work well.

On the other hand, I am not so sure I have fixed the ground for complaint against the excessive breathing space the SE corner nation (currently Caelum, but was Ulm's location before). It's still advantageous for sure, though I'm curious if anyone still finds it imbalanced. (I moved the nation NW of it a province or two closer, but it's still a lot of space.)

Critiques and comments welcome. Also, please let me know if anyone has actually been playing and enjoying it!

[Globu]

Been a long time, but I've revised the map a little bit, though I neglected to post previous revisions. So it's up from v7 to v10.

[Globu]

New version up. It has some important fixes to a couple of typos in the custom pretenders, and has easier to read documentation and (hopefully) more helpful descriptive text.


EDIT: Oh, uh, Rookierookie, did you ever get that figured out?

[Rookierookie]

Yup, I made an error in transferring code from one map to another.