Dealing with the Infantry Peril

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by PPoS

Hi, I'm playing a Long Campaign as the Japanese, starting in 1931. I've had major successes against the Nationalist Chinese forces during my first two engagements (two Decisive Victories).
Now I'm on the third engagement and have encountered a quite "hairy" situation. My force consists of 2 Infantry Companies and have an assortment of tanks and artillery in support.

My dear enemy, Nationalist China, seems to have atleast twice the number of Infantry Companies that I have.

1st Company is holding the right flank and together with elements of the 2nd Company; the center flank. The right flank is apparently where the main enemy attack takes place; hordes of enemy infantry. I've been trying to hold my ground, but the 1st Company's 1st and 2nd Platoons have almost been destroyed (desperately trying to hold their ground).

At the same time there seems to be another enemy company attacking between my center and left flank (taking out one of my platoons), so I don't really have any other forces to commit to the right flank.

Are there any great tactical advice on how to deal with this situation? And how do you really handle massive hordes of infantry attacking?

The Nationalists will likely have twice your infantry, since they are cheap and of low experience and morale compared to yours.

Are they advancing? - they will then have more points than you if so.

"An assortment of tanks and artillery" - what exactly, since off-map arty and armour can be expensive. If you bought ammo bunkers to service your mortars - they are 200 odd points each.

"Hordes" of enemy low quality infantry can be held with a couple of MG and medium mortars - and every rifle coy should have about 2 MMG and 2 mortar tubes attached.

Simply receive the enemy with your riflemen at the halt, and a good field of fire for the MMG ahead of them. Dose their advance elements with MG and mortar fire, backed up by your riflemen on any that get within 500m. Direct your arty onto them as well - use your rifle company commander as spotter if no FOO nearby. After 3-4 turns of pounding then they should start to break. (You should have some scouts with weapons turned to range 1 ahead of your rifle line to spot them early).

You say you have some tanks - all you need against the Nationalists is Cupola MG fires from an armoured car or tankette or 2 in support of each rifle coy as they are bullet proof, provided you keep out of ATR range.

So stand still and form a firing line, pound them till they recoil and only then follow up. If they get frisky once again form the firing line and service them till they break and rinse and repeat.

Cheers
Andy

[PPoS]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

The Nationalists will likely have twice your infantry, since they are cheap and of low experience and morale compared to yours.

Are they advancing? - they will then have more points than you if so.

"An assortment of tanks and artillery" - what exactly, since off-map arty and armour can be expensive. If you bought ammo bunkers to service your mortars - they are 200 odd points each.

"Hordes" of enemy low quality infantry can be held with a couple of MG and medium mortars - and every rifle coy should have about 2 MMG and 2 mortar tubes attached.

Simply receive the enemy with your riflemen at the halt, and a good field of fire for the MMG ahead of them. Dose their advance elements with MG and mortar fire, backed up by your riflemen on any that get within 500m. Direct your arty onto them as well - use your rifle company commander as spotter if no FOO nearby. After 3-4 turns of pounding then they should start to break. (You should have some scouts with weapons turned to range 1 ahead of your rifle line to spot them early).

You say you have some tanks - all you need against the Nationalists is Cupola MG fires from an armoured car or tankette or 2 in support of each rifle coy as they are bullet proof, provided you keep out of ATR range.

So stand still and form a firing line, pound them till they recoil and only then follow up. If they get frisky once again form the firing line and service them till they break and rinse and repeat.

Cheers
Andy

Probably should have mentioned it, it's an meeting engagement.
My assortment of artillery and tanks are two Platoons of Type 89's, 1 Platoon of Renault Type 87's, 1x 150mm Battery (O-B), Battalion 75mm Guns and a Strike Element (Aichi D1A).

I do have MG's and mortars actually pounding the h*** out of the main attack and they are all placed further back (so they are out of range). But there are simply too many squads firing at my troops, they have a huge advantage in firepower I would say. And to make things worse; a Platoon of FT-17's (MG) are also advancing on my position and the only thing standing in their way is a 75mm gun with half it's crew dead. My tanks are locked in combat on my center and left flank. Most of my Platoons are actually defending, and have done so for about 6-7 rounds now; but they just cannot stem the tide. The enemy squads have also had too many lucky shots at my squads (which are in cover), pinning them and eventually forcing them to retreat.

My artillery has pounded them for 2 turns now, but the problem here is that it takes about 4.3 rounds before the shells starts dropping (yes, I'm using an FOO). In about another 3.5 rounds my D1A's will come swooping down, but I fear that it is to late for 1st Company.

[PPoS]

Oh, no sweat. I think I just might be able to stem the tide anyway

[hoplitis]

It's a campaign so...
"smoke" your position
rally your troops
and get the hell out of there!!!

wulfir is right.

You could consider other options if you had an "uncommited" reserve but it seems that your about to send in the cooks!

[Mobhack]

Probably should have mentioned it, it's an meeting engagement.
My assortment of artillery and tanks are two Platoons of Type 89's, 1 Platoon of Renault Type 87's, 1x 150mm Battery (O-B), Battalion 75mm Guns and a Strike Element (Aichi D1A).

2 platoons of Type 89's are likely worth 2 companies of Nationalist infantry, maybe a batallion.

The strike element is rather worthless - air is only useful against armour IMHO, and then in quantity (5-6 flights worth of typhoons, say). It is an expensive way to do recce.

You have allocated the entire artillery resources of the division, for a measly 2 rifle companies!. That will be where the AI is getting the points for a battalion(+) of more grunts. [Try a stand alone battle purchase of your support toys only. Note the cost. Now open up a stand alone battle as Nat China and see what those points would buy him in rifle companies]


2 rifle companies would justify:
- 2 /3 HMG barrels each coy (as singles or a section)
- 2/3 70mm Mortar tubes each coy
- 2 or 3 snipers or scouts per company
- A tankette or armoured car section per coy
- a towed 37/47mm ATG section per coy

+ 2 thirds of the battalion's 70mm infantry guns/90mm mortars
+ 1 battery of 75mm/105mm for the entire force
+ a medium/light tank platoon (Japanese armour is rare)

You have overbought expensive support weaponry while neglecting your front line grunts against an enemy that relies on cheap hordes of riflemen. Your few guys will likely melt away before the support arty has had the required time to kill all the hordes of Chinese grunts.

A battalion is 3 companies (possibly 4 in Japanese service).
- Ditch the expensive support toys
- Buy a third rifle company group (Rifle coy with mortar section + MMG section), possibly a fourth. That gives you the reserve troops you are lacking!. Advance 2 companies up, one or 2 trailing in reserve.
- Buy the battalion support group (4(?) 70/5mm inf guns platoon, 4 or 6 90mm mortars platoon, 4/6 37mm towed ATG in 2 sections, 4/6 AAMG platoon, MMG platoon)
- Buy a section of scouts per rifle coy, if they don't have integral scouts
- Buy a section of 2 snipers per coy. (Good for killing any MMG he has)

From division, have:
- a 75mm or 105mm off-map (or on map) battery of 4 tubes
- 2 platoons of tanks at the most, 1 more likely
- 2 sections of armoured cars (for the 3 or so MG they have) or the little MG only tankettes. Use as close support "tin pillboxes" with the lead rifle companies to hose down his infantry. Don't wander off doing recces with them - they will get ambushed.
- a few ammo trucks to support the mortars and infantry guns. (Bunkers cost 200+ points)

Use your towed ATG to deal with the few tanks the Nats will have, and the single tank platoon as a mobile fire base. Once the tank threat is dealt with the ATG can be used as additional infantry guns, from > 500 yards to fire direct HE support.

Andy

[Mobhack]

Just did a quick and dirty check

Your support toys (tanks and arty) are worth about 1500 points (and if core will be worth more as the war progresses) - which relates to about 6 (six) KMT rifle coys at 256 points a pop (tested in in 1939). 2 battalions worth!.

And you have but 2 rifle coys on map...

You could have bought about 4 Type A rifle coys (with added MG and mortar section) for the exact same points expenditure. Four Japanese rifle companies(+) would deal with the 6 KMT ones with no great bother at all, methinks.

Andy

[PPoS]

You have plenty of good points and advice. Going with only 2 Infantry companies is a preference; I don't usually like to play with larger forces than that. I usually play with just a company and an assortment of different supporting Platoons (usually strong artillery support), but as I said; that just what I prefer.

I come up with about 900 points for my support, but I get your point, it's to much. A KMT Infantry Company is 228 points, so my support is worth roughly 4 (!) Companies of KMT Infantry.

Thanks for the heads up, didn't really think it through much from the beginning, but I've learned something new. It's just because of my preference while playing battles, I usually don't spend all the points on troops (but I did this time).

[Ironfist]

Originally Posted by PPoS

My artillery has pounded them for 2 turns now, but the problem here is that it takes about 4.3 rounds before the shells starts dropping (yes, I'm using an FOO). In about another 3.5 rounds my D1A's will come swooping down, but I fear that it is to late for 1st Company.

You can plot arty from the very beginning, with their tubes turned off. When the enemy shows up, turn their tubes back on. Thus you will have no delay. Later you can shift them with your spotter (much better if the spotter has LOS).

And I think the delay for arty is related to your FOO and arty's exp, AND the caliber (represented by WH) of your guns. So if your arty is 105mm PL or 75mm PL, they will drop much faster anyway.

[RVPERTVS]

Originally Posted by Ironfist

You can plot arty from the very beginning, with their tubes turned off. When the enemy shows up, turn their tubes back on. Thus you will have no delay. Later you can shift them with your spotter (much better if the spotter has LOS).

And I think the delay for arty is related to your FOO and arty's exp, AND the caliber (represented by WH) of your guns. So if your arty is 105mm PL or 75mm PL, they will drop much faster anyway.

Very Interesting. Can you explain this a little better please? What do you mean by "you will have no delay"? AFAIK you´ll have the same delay but your tubes won´t fire, you mean you´´l have to keep switching targets?

Thanks in advance

[Lt. Ketch]

Originally Posted by RVPERTVS

Very Interesting. Can you explain this a little better please? What do you mean by "you will have no delay"? AFAIK you´ll have the same delay but your tubes won´t fire, you mean you´´l have to keep switching targets?

Thanks in advance

It took me a while to figure this out to, but it works great.

Plot your artillary where you want it during deployment. This normally means it will fall before anybody goes. However, rather then letting it fall on nothing, before you quit deployment go into the bombardment menu, view the unit and click on all of the guns. This will turn them off so nothing will fire even though it's plotted.

Then comes the fun part. The battle has progressed to the point when the enemy has occupied the space wehre you plotted your artillary at the beginning of the game. Assuming that you have not replotted any of the guns, you will be able to click on the name of the unit and it will re-plot the units guns in the original hex with no deley. Since the gun was plotted there and then consiquensly never moved, it's a simple matter to just load a shell and pull the trigger. Just remember to turn the tubes/guns back on.

You can also plot your artillary in advance, then the turn before it comes in, if the enemy is not there, move it until the delay goes back up a turn or two. I do this a lot. It's a bit of a bear though because your spotter has to have good field of view to do it accuratly.