MP: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!

[Kuritza]

I have won it as clean as possible. Seriously. Also, I managed to get some unique summons and forge an artifact.

So I just dont see why this game should be THAT unique to allow a 3-turns rollback. When Jomon had lots of stales, Ermor saw it as a good reason to attack Jomon - it wasnt a problem. When Ermor staled and somebody saw it as a good reason to attack Ermor, its a problem and we have to roll it back. Double standard?

Sorry, things like that happen. Zeldor should have asked Mikah to check game thread maybe. Heck, he shouldnt have *counted* on this game to end. Its called overconfidence.

Also, I was that annoyed by a 10-days stale because I dont have much time before my own vacation. But thanks to this childish outbreak, I will have to ask my sub to do the hardest part for me. If this game even contunues, of course.

[Anthropos]

while i really don't care that much
this following is a silly solution

=====
So maybe I can offer another possible solution....

"The game is rolled back the three turns to before Ermor started staling, and conditions imposed so that the war Kuritza won is winnable again, but without any of the risks that were attached to it first time around."

If that means the nation Kuritza defeated has to stale or submit suicidal orders, then so be it. That particular war has already been fought and an outcome achieved in Kuritza's favour, so it would be unfair and unreasonable to give the defeated nation another crack at surviving it. I am not sure if there are any other major wars/battles elsewhere that would need the same provisions made, but Kuritza's successful war victory seems to be the one most mentioned in the discussion, and unless I am mistaken, his main objection to the rollback (as it would be unfair on him to ask him to win a war a second time if he took risks to win it the first time).
====

the war was against me
it was the first few turns i ever faced a war against an experienced player in MP

one of the three turns I staled (can't rem why now)
the other i did sleep deprived on a train and forgot to load my casters up with gems
also, as most of the good advice on how to play came from zeldor
his absence as a person during this time was key feature in my downfall
he had huge numbers of troops adjacent to some of the battlegrounds

if we rollback, things will be different

a) i know a lot more
b) my main ally will be around
c) i saw how things might progress on that terrain
d) unlikley things happened, like my god dying with a single bad MR save
e) zeldor might take action

i expect to still die
but to cause more serious losses

bye for now
anthropos

[Anthropos]

ps: to whoever stole the admin slot
your poem is wonderful
i hope you are honorable enough to return control of the game to us

if you pm me the password so we can at least try and fix things
i swear on the blood of my first dead DnD character
never to reveal your identity

anthropos

[Calahan]

Originally Posted by Kuritza

I have won it as clean as possible. Seriously.

Ok then, maybe it is possible to offer something extra besides the chance to win a clean war (as you have already done that). I do not know the game, so not sure if a few provinces or gems would be possible.

Originally Posted by Kuritza

Also, I managed to get some unique summons and forge an artefact.

This is not an issue, as with the cooperation of all the players, you would again be able to get the same unique summon(s) and artefact(s) you have now.

Maybe some extra unique summon(s) or artefact(s) could form part of any compensation if you missed out on them (and hence wasted the resources on, so could therefore save/use those resources)

Originally Posted by Anthropos

while i really don't care that much
this following is a silly solution

=====
So maybe I can offer another possible solution....

"The game is rolled back the three turns to before Ermor started staling, and conditions imposed so that the war Kuritza won is winnable again, but without any of the risks that were attached to it first time around."

If that means the nation Kuritza defeated has to stale or submit suicidal orders, then so be it. That particular war has already been fought and an outcome achieved in Kuritza's favour, so it would be unfair and unreasonable to give the defeated nation another crack at surviving it. I am not sure if there are any other major wars/battles elsewhere that would need the same provisions made, but Kuritza's successful war victory seems to be the one most mentioned in the discussion, and unless I am mistaken, his main objection to the rollback (as it would be unfair on him to ask him to win a war a second time if he took risks to win it the first time).
====

the war was against me
it was the first few turns i ever faced a war against an experienced player in MP

one of the three turns I staled (can't rem why now)
the other i did sleep deprived on a train and forgot to load my casters up with gems
also, as most of the good advice on how to play came from zeldor
his absence as a person during this time was key feature in my downfall
he had huge numbers of troops adjacent to some of the battlegrounds

if we rollback, things will be different

a) i know a lot more
b) my main ally will be around
c) i saw how things might progress on that terrain
d) unlikley things happened, like my god dying with a single bad MR save
e) zeldor might take action

i expect to still die
but to cause more serious losses

bye for now
anthropos

I am sorry, but you had your chance to defend against Kuritza, and you lost your war. There may be many reasons why you lost, which you have explained. But all of them have no bearing on the issue at hand. It is always tough as a new player to defend against an experienced player for the first time. I know, I have been there. But if you attempted to use any knowledge you gained to change the course of your war with Kuritza during the rollback, or gain assistance from another player (such as Zeldor) then you would directly benefit from the rollback, and Kuritza would directly suffer. That then actually goes against what my idea is trying to achieve.

The key to my solution is to try and make every non-Ermor related incident happen just as it did. So that way the game can return to this turn after a rollback, with Kuritza being in the same position as he is now (or better due to some form of compensation). You having a chance to defend yourself better is NOT part of the solution, and would only cause more problems if it happened.

So while you say "if we rollback, things will be different", the entire point is that things should not be any different at all in your war if the game is rolled back.

Originally Posted by lch

I haven't read Calahan's post, it was too long.

Yeah I don't blame you, I'm an awesome rambler when I get going

Originally Posted by lch

Can somebody sum up Calahan's post to me? Was it a reformulation of Sheap's rules for Multiplayer etiquette or what people call the "metagame"?

Something like that. Although I tried to keep the points relevant to this game only rather than games in general. Plus I tried to point out that those who are to blame for this mess are not the ones being punished. And that a single player shouldn't be asked/forced to take the entire hit of a big problem that was caused almost entirely by a huge administrative cock-up. This problem affects the very game itself, and therefore every player. So logically, everybody should have to make some sort of compromise in order to correct it. It is the shape and form of that compromise that the current crop of messages are trying to work out.


And of course Sheap explained all the MP etiquette rules far better than I ever could.

Here's the link to Sheap's fantastic "Multi-player 101 Guide" on how to play and act during MP games for those who have not read it (you should!). Think I must have read this at least a dozen times before playing my first MP game.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com//showthread.php?t=32050