Proportions 2.3 released

[gregebowman]

I'm in the process of downloading the mod now. Do I need to download the patch also, or is that for those who have Version 2.2?

[Fyron]

The patch is only necessary if you want to upgrade 2.2 to 2.3. If you are doing a fresh install of 2.3, you don't need the patch.

[PvK]

Originally posted by gregebowman:
I'm in the process of downloading the mod now. Do I need to download the patch also, or is that for those who have Version 2.2?

You don't need the patch if you have the full 2.3.

The patch upgrades any Version of Proportions (including the Version on the Gold CD) to 2.3.

If you want the three new AI/races Oleg made, you will need to download from the top link on the page, which is the full 2.3 and those AI/race files.

PvK

[PvK]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
"* Removed the actual storage from Space Yard components, but the
ability remains, so they can still be used on transport hulls, but
space yard bases will not automatically have cargo room."

What happens if you upgrade to 2.3 if the bases have cargo in them?

Existing games which have ship yard bases and ships will have their cargo capacity go down by 80kT. If they are carrying cargo in excess of their new limit, it will still be on the ship until it unloads. It just means they won't be able to re-load (as much, or in some cases, any) once they drop it off.

PvK

[PvK]

Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:

quote:

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Originally posted by Sinapus:
Nifty.

BTW: How did you create those designcreation.txt file entries for desired/maximum speed? Do you have a conVersion program, or did you do it the hard way and type each entry in one by one?

(Wondering since I've been thinking of ways to include a system similar to what you have in my games. Modding all the race's designcreation.txt files is the only thing stopping me right now.)

More importantly, does it work? I've not been able to get the AI to respect 'desired speed' when engines ae given more than one standard movement and I don't know of anyone else who has either.

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Yes, it does work. All or almost all of the AI's designs, for all AI's, even Neutrals, now build with correct numbers of engines, and even mix high-output engines with efficient engines to achieve different tradeoffs in speed versus range and cost.

The bad news is it is essentially all done by hand-tweaking, and required multiple entries for different sizes of the same design type. This is one of the main reasons why it has taken so much work to create decent AI's for Proportions.

The technique is to use the Max Speed line to specify the desired number of normal engines - the AI obeys.

PvK

[PvK]

Oleg's explanation is exactly correct. Mothballing a large fleet is still a valid and worthwhile tactic in Proportions, but at least now it has a more relevant cost. I had been considering increasing it but was spurred by a suggestion from John Sullivan, who has been doing extensive LAN testing and AI development for Proportions. He suggested a minimum of 100% to unmothball. I thought I'd try 80% and see if anyone balked or found fault.

Also, consider that the default 20% is the same as one turn's maintenance for a non-mothballed ship - essentially you would always save a bundle by mothballing.

I think the comparison to new construction cost is reasonable. Manufacturing a new item can often be cheaper than restoring an old one. Compared to the cost of maintaining a ship turn after turn, it is a major savings, especially considering the pace and economics in Proportions.

Do some strategic math and thinking and stew on it, and as with everything, let me know if you have any suggestions.

PvK

Originally posted by Rollo:
Thanks a lot ,PvK.

How about this:
"* Increased cost of unmothballing ships from 20% to 80%."

dusting off the captains chair is almost as costly as building a complete new ship .

Rollo

[Tenryu]

PvK, This,#2.3, is truly an awesome peice of work. Thanks again.

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally posted by PvK:

quote:

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Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
More importantly, does it work? I've not been able to get the AI to respect 'desired speed' when engines ae given more than one standard movement and I don't know of anyone else who has either.

Yes, it does work. All or almost all of the AI's designs, for all AI's, even Neutrals, now build with correct numbers of engines, and even mix high-output engines with efficient engines to achieve different tradeoffs in speed versus range and cost.

The bad news is it is essentially all done by hand-tweaking, and required multiple entries for different sizes of the same design type. This is one of the main reasons why it has taken so much work to create decent AI's for Proportions.

The technique is to use the Max Speed line to specify the desired number of normal engines - the AI obeys.

PvK

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Looking at the design files, all I see is '500' as the desired speed for every single design. If the limit is 255, how does this work?

Have you tried assiging a 'Majority Component ability' of Standard Ship Movement?

[Captain Kwok]

I disagree with the exuberant mothball cost. It should be more than 20% yes, but less than 50%.

To unmothball a ship, it just requires some maintenance and recalibration of systems. Remember that unmothballing a ship does not update it technologically.

If you take in a refit at a maximum 50% of the ships orignal cost than that gives up to 100% to unmothball the ship and update it to most current tech. That seems reasonable doesn't it?

[PvK]

Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:

quote:

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Originally posted by PvK:

quote:

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Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
More importantly, does it work? I've not been able to get the AI to respect 'desired speed' when engines ae given more than one standard movement and I don't know of anyone else who has either.

Yes, it does work. All or almost all of the AI's designs, for all AI's, even Neutrals, now build with correct numbers of engines, and even mix high-output engines with efficient engines to achieve different tradeoffs in speed versus range and cost.

The bad news is it is essentially all done by hand-tweaking, and required multiple entries for different sizes of the same design type. This is one of the main reasons why it has taken so much work to create decent AI's for Proportions.

The technique is to use the Max Speed line to specify the desired number of normal engines - the AI obeys.

PvK

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Looking at the design files, all I see is '500' as the desired speed for every single design. If the limit is 255, how does this work?

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Sorry, I mis-remembered. I think the "Desired Speed" value is semi-obsolete. I only ever set it to 254. If you see 500, it's probably one of John's or Oleg's. However I don't think that one does anything as long as it's high. The "Minimum Speed" is the important one. For example:

Minimum Speed := 8
Desired Speed := 254

This gets the AI to put 8 engines of the type it considers best on a ship design.

Have you tried assiging a 'Majority Component ability' of Standard Ship Movement?

No I haven't. I bet it would work ok, but I don't see why it would be better than using the Abilities section below, and since the Maj Component section is the only one that works for main weapons, and you only get that and the 2ndary one to specify those, I just use the Misc Abilities for other engine specs. For example, in Proportions specifying Misc abilities of "Warp Point - Turbulence" will get the AI to add some efficient engines, and "Extra Movement Generation" will get Gravitic Drives. You do need to reduce the "Minimum Speed" by the same amount, or the AI will cheat by violating the limits of a hull's specified design.

PvK