Can someone tell me about Machaka?

[vfb]

I'm using a dormant rainbow S4N4E4B4A?W???, whose minor paths I can't remember because he's currently dead (as the result of a failed experiment). 2 or 3 or something.

@ ChrisP: I agree that black hunters are good for expansion against indies. Rings of Regen, not so much. That was the point I was trying to make.

@ BigDaddy: Mindless units with S can *cast* Mind Hunt just fine. I'm saying a Collosal Fetish can't be targeted by it.

@ Amorphous: I think the Black Hunters are underestimated because outside of CBM they have MR 5 in spider form, and are more expensive to boot.

I don't think that putting a berserker pelt on a Collosal Fetish is a good idea. It's kind of broken: his morale will remain at 50, but he'll gain fatigue from the beserk and won't be able to self-buff. A morale-50 unit is not going to retreat ever anyway. The only exception is if you order him to retreat, which is actually a terrible idea, because he'll have some sort of positronic meltdown and just die.

I'm pretty sure mindless units dissolve on turn 50 whether they are berserk or not.

I don't like to hire the sorceresses because the (also) cap-only sorcerers are so much better.

[Amorphous]

Originally Posted by vfb

@ Amorphous: I think the Black Hunters are underestimated because outside of CBM they have MR 5 in spider form, and are more expensive to boot.

You are probably right in part, but I doubt that is the whole of it. MR really does not matter during indy expansion and though some may stare themselves blind on the price tag of the hunters, I doubt that most fail to compare the cost to what else Machaka has available.

In vanilla, Black Hunter expansion parties are cheaper in gold but more expensive in resources than parties of Spider Riders. In past versions of CBM the cost of the riders were significantly lessened while hunters had a cost the same as in vanilla, which made the rider parties cheaper in gold and resources - outside of a some ridiculously expensive bless. The hunter cost decrease in the latest CBM version changes the situation to one similar to vanilla.

[Jarkko]

Aren't the Black Spiders still 100 gold each? 10 Spider riders (ie an investment of 300 gold) can take most indy provinces, but can 3 Black Spiders do that too? The usual upkeep advantage sacreds have is not relevant with spiders (riderless spiders are free from upkeep), so just the basic investment matters. I've been under the impresion one needs 5 or 6 black spiders to do the job of 10 brown ones, but I haven't tested this out in a loooong time.

I think I have to try this out If 3 Black spiders, even with a bless (build a temple in a province, and build indy priests to cast Bless ad nauseautum, and you can still recruit mages from the fort(s)), can act as an expansion party, then that has to be done for the shere coolness factor. Black Spiders *are* cool, there is no question about that (I think), but just being cool has not been good enough for the steep price (except to eat elephants and giants, but those are not common enough usually).

[Amorphous]

Black Hunters cost 80 and Spider Riders 30 in the latest CBM.
In vanilla, it is 125 and 50 respectively.

At least with a minor nature bless, 4 Black Hunters do better than 10 Spider Riders. From what I can remember, 3 was a bit too close. The chance of losing one is much greater than with 4 and going with just 2 does not really work, so you need to reinforce before you can continue.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by vfb

I'm pretty sure mindless units dissolve on turn 50 whether they are berserk or not.

I don't like to hire the sorceresses because the (also) cap-only sorcerers are so much better.

Vfb:

I am very sure that I have gone 75 with a berserk mindless. I may be wrong. But I'm sure =).

Secondly, I've seen a few instances where mindless units can route. For example, set one up with quickness, and boots of flying. If they get to the edge of the board on their first action I believe they will route ok.