Redwich - a dramatic game (in progress)

[Raiel]

I think this one is over... I've discussed the situation with the new representative of TC, and there's no way for all of us combined to take him on. Secretperson stated in a PM that he didn't think he could claim victory... I took this on faith, but he was most certainly wrong.

Squirrelloid and I propose that, failing a reemergence and claim of victory by TC, we call this game a draw.

[Bananadine]

Originally Posted by Raiel

I took this on faith, but he was most certainly wrong.

You had to take it on faith? Where were your scouts, while his angels and elemental kings and undead gods were falling to half-dead Vanheim, one after another?

I made the same assumption you did, without whatever information Maerlande has given you: T'ien Ch'i was far too strong. But instead of giving up, I attacked, and found out how wrong I'd been. That's how it works, you know? You do your mental math: "They have roughly X resources, and I only have about X/Y resources (where Y is pretty big), so I can't possibly beat them." And then you fight them anyway, and if they were indeed too strong you learn something, and if they weren't, you learn something!

Yeah I know, nobody wants the unwinnable slog. But until secretperson disappeared, there was no future slog in my view, at least. I don't care whether T'ien Ch'i has a thousand gems, or a hundred thousand. I actually fought that nation, and until you stopped me, I was winning. Moreover, I saw no evidence that that wouldn't have continued, if I could have afforded to keep fighting. Trust that before you trust your mental math!

BUT now of course we have a different player, so maybe the game's result really is no longer in doubt--or wouldn't be, for somebody who knew everything about all our resources and skills. Now, maybe you know enough about Maerlande's skills to accurately identify an unwinnable slog in our future. But I don't. So even if I weren't idealistically attached to the idea of playing to the end (which I am), I would still want to keep playing. The issue is still in doubt for me. So I don't even need to invoke idealism; I'm just gonna keep playing.

I reject the draw, and invite the rest of you to keep playing as well. And I remind you... that's all I have the power to do. If you want to stop, then does it make much difference to you whether we all agree to stop? I mean, you're free to stop anytime. I can't pretend you'd be rupturing some ideal; we've already lost a central power, after all. The balance is way off, one way or another... I think maybe if secretperson came back, and if you guys would fight him for a bit, just to see, then maybe you'd change your minds and we could keep playing. But that's kind of a stretch. You've done your part.

Anyway: If you can find any reason to keep playing with a positive spirit, then I invite you to do so. Otherwise, thanks for playing, and please give your nation to the AI.

[Squirrelloid]

Bananadine:
Secretperson literally hasn't been using any of his real strength. He's absolutely loaded with resources and material he could be using and *isn't*. I agree, I thought he looked pretty weak for all his supposed strength, but then I heard from Maerlande just some of what he actually has. Its crazy. And Maerlande's more than a competent enough player to ride that gravy train to victory.

[Raiel]

I'm going to ignore what certainly comes across as an insult to the intelligence of every other player in this game, Bananadine, and answer the question you almost asked...

Yes, Maerlande is more than skilled enough to win this game with the resources at his disposal and we don't have nearly enough to stop him.

The only reason this game wasn't over 20 turns ago was that secretperson hasn't effectively utilized what he had available. If he had stuck around, there my have been doubt, but there no longer is... this game is over.

Edit: I re-read your post, and while the first part does seem a bit insulting, I concede that it doesn't have to be taken that way... I'm just ready to be done with this game.

[Bananadine]

I don't think the game is tainted by secretperson's failure to win when he "should have won", or anything like that. This didn't even come up until he failed to take his turns! That's the real problem. It's okay to have what secretperson had, and still fail to quickly win with it! That's just having strengths and weaknesses. We all have those. If you guys really think that secretperson was so dangerous, then yes, I'll accuse you of relying too much on predictions and not enough on actual battle results, and I'll claim I did better than you did in that regard. But that's not such an insult, is it? I mean, who's sitting on my capital right now? I messed up badly in some regards, and I guess I paid for it. Strengths and weaknesses!

(No, I still don't know what T'ien Ch'i actually has. I know as much as Raiel has said: Whatever it was, it wasn't used in a way that would bring victory. Isn't that enough?)

[Raiel]

I think we're on the same page, Bananadine, save one point...

I've played (a bit) with Maerlande and we've exchanged ideas and strategies. I've seen some of his turns (in other games).

There is no doubt in my mind that there is nothing ahead of us but a losing slog against what he has as TC... if he sets TC to AI, or a new player comes in for TC, we still have a game of sorts. That analysis is not influenced by preference: that's just the way I see it.

[Squirrelloid]

Maybe he'll actually succeed at killing me. Someone should have by now.

[Bananadine]

Should have! Should have! LlamaServer does not recognize should.

It'd sure be awesome if it did, though! Victory points are only a feeble step in that direction....

[Squirrelloid]

Now that Bananadine is eliminated, there is full agreement among the remaining players to call the game. If we were to declare a winner, there is even agreement that it would be TC, but (and Maerlande can't chime in here, but there is a thread on the new forums) TC is willing to call it without a winner because the change in player markedly changed the likely fate of the game.

Cheers, it was fun, if rather frustrating at times. I should have chosen a nation which didn't crap out around turn 50.

[Mithras]

I did enjoy that, though I'm surprised I survived through early game. Cheers, and congradulations to Maerlande, even if he can't see me. He gets credit for subbing at all and giving us an end game.