OT: Starcraft II and Elemental

[Meglobob]

Thankfully, I didn't pre-order Elemental (I didn't want to get involved in beta testing) and I am unlikely to buy Elemental any time soon.

I personally love Galactic Civilizations and bought GC 1, GC2 and all the expansions. Also I have bought several games which I am happy with via there impluse platform. So Stardock have alot of goodwill from me, however Elemental and how Stardock have handled it is a diaster and will no doubt cost them alot of goodwill in the future. I know I would never pre-order a Stardock game but wait for the magazine reviews/demo before parting with my money.

There website is very, very scary place to visit, its full of fanboys who stomp on any critisim of the game or any reasonable discussion. If those were the type of players who were giving them there beta feedback, then its no wander it has resulted in what is currently a very, 'average' game.

The demo will be out in September, so I will try that and see what I think, I may still buy Elemental but only if Stardock continues its development and turns it into at least a 'good' game. It could very well be the 1st expansion before this is the case.

[onomastikon]

Originally Posted by Meglobob

There website is very, very scary place to visit, its full of fanboys who stomp on any critisim of the game or any reasonable discussion. If those were the type of players who were giving them there beta feedback, then its no wander it has resulted in what is currently a very, 'average' game.

In all fairness, while "their" website does indeed contain a large number of rampant, vociferous fanboys, "it's" not terribly different from most game websites throughout the world. Sometimes I also "wonder" about the degree of harshness with which those who offer constructive criticism of Dominions are treated here on this website.

What's true is that Brad -- not unlike Johan et al. -- feels that he will and can end up doing his thing, no matter what, and that gives him a certain degree of immunity to criticism. Like Johan et al., Brad has a "real life" in a slightly different context, albeit one that is not quite so different than that a game developer as a schoolteacher is (he runs a software company which also happens to have a small gaming branch); while he has resources and gets paid for Elemental, his bread and butter is elsewhere (various Windows applications), allowing him to create a niche product, if he so wishes. For reasons much like these, the creators of Dominions 3 are also able to say, with a certain degree of reassurance, that if someone doesn't like what they are doing, then they might as well stay away. Unlike the creators of Dom3, however, whose main target group consist of people posting here (in other words, a small, vociferous, fiercly loyal (it seems to me sometimes to the point of being blind), frequently rampant fanbase) -- in other words, the nerds here like you and me --, the creators of Elemental simultaneously wish to be mainstream and reach a much larger target group. I think that is greatly inconsistent and self-contradictory, and I am currently writing a useless, somewhat acerbic post full of well-formulated rantings on their website, mostly because I still suffer from the common delusion that things people write on sites like these will be viewed with patience and goodwill and may even change things in the world. Look for my post there soon. Ah excuse me sidetracked.

I too was a member of the beta "team", and Megablob is more correct than he knows. What he doesn't know: We never actually tested the game. Never. We tested parts of it, but what you can purchase now was never played by a human being outside the laboratories of Stardock, and by them only minimally (by their own admission), before reaching your shelves. You read it here first. Ah excuse me again.

[WraithLord]

Originally Posted by onomastikon

In all fairness, while "their" website does indeed contain a large number of rampant, vociferous fanboys, "it's" not terribly different from most game websites throughout the world. Sometimes I also "wonder" about the degree of harshness with which those who offer constructive criticism of Dominions are treated here on this website.

Care to share some examples before making a statement like this?

Originally Posted by onomastikon

What's true is that Brad -- not unlike Johan et al. -- feels that he will and can end up doing his thing, no matter what, and that gives him a certain degree of immunity to criticism. Like Johan et al., Brad has a "real life" in a slightly different context, albeit one that is not quite so different than that a game developer as a schoolteacher is (he runs a software company which also happens to have a small gaming branch); while he has resources and gets paid for Elemental, his bread and butter is elsewhere (various Windows applications), allowing him to create a niche product, if he so wishes. For reasons much like these, the creators of Dominions 3 are also able to say, with a certain degree of reassurance, that if someone doesn't like what they are doing, then they might as well stay away. Unlike the creators of Dom3, however, whose main target group consist of people posting here (in other words, a small, vociferous, fiercly loyal (it seems to me sometimes to the point of being blind), frequently rampant fanbase) -- in other words, the nerds here like you and me --, the creators of Elemental simultaneously wish to be mainstream and reach a much larger target group. I think that is greatly inconsistent and self-contradictory, and I am currently writing a useless, somewhat acerbic post full of well-formulated rantings on their website, mostly because I still suffer from the common delusion that things people write on sites like these will be viewed with patience and goodwill and may even change things in the world. Look for my post there soon. Ah excuse me sidetracked.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I disagree with the comparison you drew. I am following IW for many years now and I personally witnessed their attitude to critisism. I think they are more open than SD are and certainly less condesending (IMHO)

Originally Posted by onomastikon

I too was a member of the beta "team", and Megablob is more correct than he knows. What he doesn't know: We never actually tested the game. Never. We tested parts of it, but what you can purchase now was never played by a human being outside the laboratories of Stardock, and by them only minimally (by their own admission), before reaching your shelves. You read it here first. Ah excuse me again.

Unbelieveable. Not even the devs played the game. Do they even like what they created?

[rdonj]

Originally Posted by onomastikon

In all fairness, while "their" website does indeed contain a large number of rampant, vociferous fanboys, "it's" not terribly different from most game websites throughout the world. Sometimes I also "wonder" about the degree of harshness with which those who offer constructive criticism of Dominions are treated here on this website.

What's true is that Brad -- not unlike Johan et al. -- feels that he will and can end up doing his thing, no matter what, and that gives him a certain degree of immunity to criticism. Like Johan et al., Brad has a "real life" in a slightly different context, albeit one that is not quite so different than that a game developer as a schoolteacher is (he runs a software company which also happens to have a small gaming branch); while he has resources and gets paid for Elemental, his bread and butter is elsewhere (various Windows applications), allowing him to create a niche product, if he so wishes. For reasons much like these, the creators of Dominions 3 are also able to say, with a certain degree of reassurance, that if someone doesn't like what they are doing, then they might as well stay away. Unlike the creators of Dom3, however, whose main target group consist of people posting here (in other words, a small, vociferous, fiercly loyal (it seems to me sometimes to the point of being blind), frequently rampant fanbase) -- in other words, the nerds here like you and me --, the creators of Elemental simultaneously wish to be mainstream and reach a much larger target group. I think that is greatly inconsistent and self-contradictory, and I am currently writing a useless, somewhat acerbic post full of well-formulated rantings on their website, mostly because I still suffer from the common delusion that things people write on sites like these will be viewed with patience and goodwill and may even change things in the world. Look for my post there soon. Ah excuse me sidetracked.

I too was a member of the beta "team", and Megablob is more correct than he knows. What he doesn't know: We never actually tested the game. Never. We tested parts of it, but what you can purchase now was never played by a human being outside the laboratories of Stardock, and by them only minimally (by their own admission), before reaching your shelves. You read it here first. Ah excuse me again.

Wow, why are we coming down so hard on "meglobob's" spelling/grammar? I mean, I've been a bit of a spelling nazi myself, but this forum gets visitors from many countries around the world, and that means we have a lot of players here who don't speak english as a first language (which I'm pretty sure includes meglobob). Of all forums to attack someone's use of the english language, this one really isn't terribly high on the list. It doesn't add anything to the conversation and is kind of rude. I would kindly ask you not to do that again on these forums, please.

And otherwise, I completely agree with Wraithlord's sentiments. Are we reading the same forums here? The ones in which there are only a very few people that stand completely behind the devs in all things (seriously, other than gandalf, does anyone fit this mold? And he's at least quite open in admitting it)? The one in which, on patch days, we are likely to see more people complaining about the lack of cave darkness than we are people who thank illwinter for the extra work they've put in to make the game just that little bit better, years after getting it out on the market? The one where the vast and overwhelming majority of games are played using a mod that makes significant changes to the game due to perceived balance concerns that they devs don't really see as a problem for them?

You baffle me.