Quote:
Originally Posted by WraithLord
BTW, I'm not sure I'm that fond of this setting. It ends up generating bookkeeping hassle and everyone quickly learns where all the capitals are anyway. so what's the point?
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Well as a big fan of these settings myself, seeing as how I use them in all my newbie games, I thought I'd better defend them
(even though I'm not in this game).
The settings themselves are fine, but there were two big errors made with this game.
1 - The map (if it's the default Asia Twist one) had known pre-set starting locations. One of the main ideas about not VP marking the capitals is that it helps stop rush nations bee-lining for the nearest crown, and forces them to actually find the capital of their nearest neighbour. (Since rush nations really shouldn't be given any extra help to crush others inside of 10 turns). This might only result in a few extra turns of delay for the rush nation, but given the likely lack of scouts in the first few turns, this could be critical. As anyone who has ever had to defend a rush knows all too well how much of a difference an extra few turns can be.
So for this 'rush-hindering feature' of these settings to work, you need to have a 3rd party arrange the start locations, and not give the final .map file used for the game to the players (as only the llamaserver needs the .map file). For those playing in the No Wankers Allowed game (or any of my newbie games), this is what I have done in these games (since I'm the non-playing admin of all these games). Of course, finding a 3rd party to arrange starting locations for hidden capitals is another matter. But one is needed for this 'rush-hindering feature' to work (unless you go with random starts, which are nowhere near as bad as some players make out. But that is just IMO of course)
2 - For some baffling reason, you are keeping a running record of the number of capitals that players currently own. Thereby punishing the players in-game who have bothered to put time, effort and resources into running constant surveillance operations on the capitals of the world, so that they always know when one changes hands, and as such if someone if getting too close to the winning line.
But doing this simply rewards the lazy players who can't be bothered to operate a proper scout network, or invest the gems into a Stone Sphere piggy-bank. As by effectively giving everyone back a VP graph in the OP, nobody has to be worried about someone suddenly capturing a load of capitals they haven't got a constant eye on, because they will now be given this info in the OP if this happens. (of course a big factor here is also a player's own view regarding 'hidden / stealth' wins, due to the other players being unaware that one player was close to winning. I think they're great personally, and a natural penalty for those players who don't pay attention to the larger picture. But others hate them for obvious reasons)
Of course, everyone has their own tastes and preferences for game settings, but as I said, being a fan of the ones in this game, I feel you are not really seeing the benefit of them because of the two mistakes that I have just outlined. Either of which on their own can seriously de-value these settings, but together almost certainly make the basic idea of "not marking capitals with VP's" pretty much pointless.
So I'd ask anyone to please not knock these settings unless you've actually tried them within the context of their proper set-up, and when they are WAD
which is not the case here unfortunately
(which is in no way a criticism of Wraithlord the admin, as a lot of game settings require both trial and error and experience in order to find out what is required to get the best out of them. And I've admined a lot of games)
Sorry for butting-in (I think it's a habit I really do have to stop
)
ps. Just want to say thanks to WL and Ex for all the diplo posturing and wind-blowing on the thread. I had started to lose a little faith recently in no-diplo games, since my last few had been spoiled by a few factors that are less evident in diplo games. But seeing you two bash it out on the thread has starkly reminded me why I hate diplomacy so very very much, and as such all the reasons why no-diplo games simply rule.
So thanks for the reminder, and long live no diplomacy games!!!!
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