spob20 Yugoslavia corrections/suggestions

[zastava128]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

Do you have any details, especially range and barrel length of 75 mm M.28? What bothers me, is a coincidence in designation with 80 mm gun, which was also a mountain gun, but with a barrel L/40 and a very decent range 13.1 km. According to Chamberlain, M.28 was manufactured in two versions: 76.5mm for Yugoslavia and 75mm for Romania, also unspecified variant was used in Czechoslovakia.
And another question is, if it was really used as infantry gun (directly supporting infantry). Unit 54 has a limited on-map range.

By the way, M.5/8 gun was Skoda as well, and also could be broken down and used as mountain gun.

To be honest, I'm not sure, artillery really isn't my forte. But you may be right - the book I used as the source (Aralica: Hrvatski ratnici kroz stoljeća/Croatian warriors through the centuries) does have quite a few typos/editing errors - it's quite possible the 80mm M.28 was really a field gun.

EDIT: found details for 75mm M.28: barrel length 1.34m L/18, range 8.7 km.

According to Chamberlain, also more modern 80mm Skoda M.17 mountain gun was used (range 11.4km).

I've checked again, Chamberlain is right, but it was used in very small numbers.

---
As an off-topic, since I can't send you a private message: do you know what camouflage was used on captured Somua tanks? I can only find a photo of a tank upgunned wih 6pdr, which shows only a flag on a turret, but no camouflage. Also, are there any photos of partisan Autoblinda or Sdkfz-222 with markings? - I'm asking for a sake of my colour pictures.

Regards
Michal

Here I can help you more: the Somuas used the same camo as they had in German service. I can't tell the exact colours, but probably something like this: http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/somua.jpg
The only marking was a red star, replacing the Balkenkreuz.

Here's a photo of a captured AB41 (camo is described as "yellowish"): http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/5563/blinda2ajs7.jpg
The only marking was "Tenk bataljon" written in white, on the right side of the hull, just below the turret.

No photo of the Sdkfz 222 exists - as I've mentioned in the first post, they were only captured when the Germans surrendered, and it's not know if they were ever used. But as a general rule, the partisans did not paint over captured vehicles.

The 6pdr Somua was one of a kind vehicle by the way (the gun was taken from a destroyed AEC mk II).

[Pibwl]

001 FT-17 tank is too fast (in all OOBs) - speed 6 (it drove less than 8 km/h), but I assume, that it's in order to keep up with infantry in the game?

Maybe then 005 M.28 should be one point faster, to show, that it could drive 16 km/h? (now also 6). Interesting thing, that it's now cheaper, than FT-17, despite being canon-armed.

There were also used FT-17 with 37mm gun (lower photo at http://www.aviarmor.net/tww2/tanks/f...enault_m24.htm)

094 S-Id - it was known in Yugoslavia as T-32 (S-Id was Skoda's designation).
Armament should be 37mm Skoda A3 gun (weapon 013 from Czechoslovak oob), not 47 mm, and it carried 42 rounds.
MG should be renamed to vz.30.
Front and side armour was 12-22 mm (no specific info), so at least in front it should be strengthened to 2.
Speed was 41 km/h (now 15)
[data from Kliment/Francev "Czechoslovak Armored Fighting Vehicles 1918-1948" and a Russian Bronekollektsya 5/99]

Originally Posted by zastava128

Here I can help you more: the Somuas used the same camo as they had in German service. I can't tell the exact colours, but probably something like this: http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/somua.jpg
The only marking was a red star, replacing the Balkenkreuz.

That's what I assumed, creating a picture (will be in a following pack )

[Pibwl]

095 NC.27 - there is some confusion in designations of Renault tanks from 1920s, but Yugoslavia had only a series of M.28 tanks (aka M27/28 or M26/27 or NC-2), with Kegresse rubber tracks (publications vary mow many there were). As far as it is known, there were no NC-27 tanks of a pictured model, with modified hull and steel tracks, especially acquired in 1937.

[zastava128]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

095 NC.27 - there is some confusion in designations of Renault tanks from 1920s, but Yugoslavia had only a series of M.28 tanks (aka M27/28 or M26/27 or NC-2), with Kegresse rubber tracks (publications vary mow many there were). As far as it is known, there were no NC-27 tanks of a pictured model, with modified hull and steel tracks, especially acquired in 1937.

Well spotted. The only armoured vehicles the Royal Army had were:

1st tank battalion: FT-17 and M.28 (54 total)
2nd tank battalion: R-35 (54)
armoured vehicle squadron: T-32 (8), Berliet-White armoured car (3), "SPAK" armoured car (1 - no idea what this was, possibly a WW1-era Italian armoured car), locally-made armoured truck (2)

[Pibwl]

Maybe 005 M.28 is supposed to be just FT-17 with a gun, while 097 NC.27 is supposed to be a tank with modified suspension (speed 7). But, apart from a name, the picture shows other version, they should be available from 1930, and they were canon-armed (on known photos at least), and with the same armour.

I've spotted one more thing:
159 Hurricane I - it should be rather armed with 8 MGs, not 20 mm guns, like Mk.IIc.

[zastava128]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

Maybe 005 M.28 is supposed to be just FT-17 with a gun, while 097 NC.27 is supposed to be a tank with modified suspension (speed 7). But, apart from a name, the picture shows other version, they should be available from 1930, and they were canon-armed (on known photos at least), and with the same armour.

It's possible. But as you've said, the M.28 was acquired in 1929, so I'm pretty sure the NC.27 should be taken out. Not sure about the speed, but I don't think I've ever seen any tank with speed less than 6. Maybe it's something hard-coded inot the game engine?

I've found out that 2/3 of the FT-17/M.28 tanks were armed with 37mm guns, and that 3/4 of the tanks were the FT-17 model. So that means there were definitely FT-17 model tanks with 37mm guns.

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by zastava128

It's possible. But as you've said, the M.28 was acquired in 1929, so I'm pretty sure the NC.27 should be taken out. Not sure about the speed, but I don't think I've ever seen any tank with speed less than 6. Maybe it's something hard-coded inot the game engine?

I've found out that 2/3 of the FT-17/M.28 tanks were armed with 37mm guns, and that 3/4 of the tanks were the FT-17 model. So that means there were definitely FT-17 model tanks with 37mm guns.

I guess, that since they are infantry tanks, they shouldn't be slower, than infantry, which actually runs in the game

So, I think, that we need three tanks: FT MG-armed, FT gun-armed and M.28 gun-armed. Do you know, if M.28 was their official designation? They are usually described in sources as M.26/27 or M.27/28 or NC-2 and nobody seems to know what is correct.

By the way: a proper picture for MG-armed 001 FT is eg. 27560.