Usmc oob

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by sammy1339

I'd still like to tweak the availability of the M202, pushing its introduction up to 1969 and allowing some of the flamethrower-equipped units to expire later. Even though it's a light weapon I don't think it's that minor a thing: my experience from playing these couple scenarios was that you could take a platoon of unit 382, which has twelve shots of the rockets, and just spray them blindly into the jungle with z-fire, causing extremely high suppression that often makes enemy infantry rout without you ever having seen them, and then still have enough left to bust spider holes and whatnot. It's a pretty enormous improvement over committing half your company to suppressive fire so that you can march a 4-shot flamethrower unit up to 50 meter range under smoke cover, and about a third of the time watch it die instantly (or vainly try to "assault" the hole instead of firing its weapon - but that's a different issue.)

While the M202 could (and probably should, I'll look into how difficult that will be) be changed to an introduction date of 01/69 that's ONLY because there just happens to be a new picklist that starts at that date - doing the Vietnam units/picklist was the hardest part of the OOB rebuild.

I have to wonder about something.
If players choose to ignore real-world OOBs and take only the "best" possible units for a scenario (i.e. the famous "Tanks and Snipers" gameplay) What can be done on our end about it?
You are apparently using a LOT more M202s then would ever exist in an infantry company/battalion size formation and say the game is broken because you can do so?

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

While the M202 could (and probably should, I'll look into how difficult that will be) be changed to an introduction date of 01/69 that's ONLY because there just happens to be a new picklist that starts at that date - doing the Vietnam units/picklist was the hardest part of the OOB rebuild.

FWIW--------- http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...round/m202.htm

The M202 series of launchers was developed in the late 1960s as a replacement for the individual portable flamethrower in the US Army. The weapon was designed to provide the infantryman with a better means of neutralizing or destroying enemy gun emplacements and fortified positions. Initially, the complete system consisting of the XM202 launcher and a clip of 4 XM74 rockets, plus other associated equipment and additional ammunition, was designated as the XM191 Multi-Shot Portable Flame Weapon (MPFW). The US Army and the US Marine Corps both evaluated the XM191 system, including field testing in Southeast Asia by the USMC between July and October 1969. The decision to develop additional types of rockets, including the M96 rocket, led to the dropping of the complete system designation XM191 and the usage of the launcher designation and specific rocket designations separately.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by DRG

FWIW--------- http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...round/m202.htm

Yep, quoted that myself.
Too bad I didn't find it when I was doing the OOB revision.
Thanks Don!

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I am thus far finding that the M202 was field tested in SE Asia between July-September of 1969. I am closing in on actual "widespread" operational distribution of the system. I leave with the following along with the info that can be found/or derived from these documents. Once had them all until my computer dumped this was most helpful (Later version.) in my rework of the LAV-AD service dates (See earlier Patch Post ~3 yrs. ago by example.)and retirement of the CH-53D as examples of my use of these documents.
Ref with excerpts time period covered Jan 1947 - Dec 1964 below...
http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/Pu...9000318200.pdf

"23 Dec (Added 1960.) USMC—-—The first Marine Corps F8U—2N "Crusader" supersonic aircraft, an all-weather fighter, was delivered to El Toro and turned over to VMF-34. (Flight Jacket, 6 Jan 1961 p. 1)."

"18 Jan (Added 1961) USMC——Sergeant Major Bertha L. Peters was the first Woman Marine appointed to the top non—commissioned officer post of Sergeant Major established in April 1960. (Scout, 10 Feb 1961, p. 5; Windsock, 27 Jan 1961, p. 3; Globe, 26 Jan 1961, p. 2)."

"30 Aug (Added 1961) CONUS——The first night jump from a Marine Corps GV—l intercontinental jet-prop transport was made near Camp Horno, California, by 31 Marines from the 1st Force Reconnaissance Company in a free—fall parachute jump. (Scout, 8 Sep 1961, p. 3)."

"1964
27 Jul CARIBBEAN—-The Cuban Government accused Marine sentries at the U. S. Naval Base, Guantanamo Bay of 'killing" one of their guards, indicating that a sentry had fired six
shots and critically wounded the Cuban guard twice. (Varner and Koze, P. 69; 1964 FOF, 241D3)"


With a little PATIENCE you can find all you need from these documents.

Will post the rest as I find them- No Fuss, No Mess; straight from the Corps.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Now from Jan 1965 - Dec 1969 (It's amazing how a war will shorten the timeline. However current ones are done on a yearly basis until consolidated as this was in 1971.)
http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/Pu...9000318100.pdf

1. No luck unless I missed it concerning the M202.
2. Look to 30 April - 27 May 1967 concerning the XM16E1 (M16A1) (The USAF actually ordered the M-16. The difference between the two was the "forward assist" which allowed for a manual "push" on the bolt group to clear jams.) during the Battle for Hill 881. I think this was the first major engagement the USMC used the XM16E1. I remember the controversy this caused and a little later for the USA.
3. Excerpts these from 1969...
A. Mar 3 USMC gets first CH-53D.
B. Apr 1 First four AH-16 Huey COBRA gunships start operating in Vietnam.
C. 14 Oct USMC---The UH-34D "Sea Horse" helicopter went out of active service after 12 years in Marine Corps aviation . The helicopters were transferred to units of the 4th Marine Aircraft Wing, Marine Corps Reserve, located throughout the country. (Flight Jacket, v . 26, no . 42, 17 Oct 1969, p . 1 .) This last copied over-who knows why?!?

I'm getting the feeling that small arms aren't covered, at least in the older histories. Time to relax going in to rescue the "Sandman" in the morning at the end of the "O course".

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

I'm getting the feeling that small arms aren't covered, at least in the older histories.

Not too surprising since no doubt the sub-units of a division would get them at various times over the course of weeks/months.