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  #1  
Old December 12th, 2017, 08:02 PM

Pibwl Pibwl is offline
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Default Re: Soviet OOB 11: miscellaneous observations

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113,132 100mm AT-Gun - much more similar (or maybe even proper) is icon 8028 (a picture https://weaponsandwarfare.files.word...pg?w=584&h=376 )
It was in fact one gun (BS-3 obr.44), but their weapons differ in range. According to an article in Polish Poligon (by Russian author), they have been delivered already in late 1944. There's no info, that new longer range ammo was developed in 5/45 - it used BR-412 full AP rounds with unknown range and BR-412B APBC rounds with a range 4000 m, although it isn't known when exactly specific rounds were introduced. Anyway, if we want to keep two guns, then #113 should be available earlier and end in 12/46.

114 BT-2 - first serial tanks were commissioned in 3/32 (now: 10/31), but only from mid-32 they were fitted with guns [book by M. Svirin] (in 10/31 only three iron tanks were made). Gun had 92 rounds.
Would need change in formations 05 and 153 first date.

Also from 1933 part of unarmed BT-2 received two paired DT machineguns in addition to a separate DT - there could be added such unit.
photos:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:BT-2_MG.jpg
http://ww2tanki.ru/images/tanki/sove...nk-bt-2-24.jpg
a drawing is pm27828.
There are known photos of such tanks destroyed in 1941.

134 AOP light truck
- better photo might be GAZ truck 00166, now it's Dodge WC-62 (in rare in the USSR 6x6 version in addition).

Or maybe it's better to replace it with an early light staff car, like GAZ-A, commonly used by the army. There is similar (or the same?) photo 27596. The rest could be copied from some generic Wheel-only class utility vehicle, like British #286 Austin. Good icon is 2746/2748. It could also be copied as an early utility vehicle.

192,441 DT AAMG [1] - picture is 12.7mm DShK on non-AAMG mounting. DT was a tank machinegun, that could be dismounted (photo: 21033), although rather not used as a dedicated AAMG, though it was possible... We already have a single Maxim AAMG from 1930, so it might be easily deleted.

223 Il-10 "Beast" - later US codename should be removed IMO

280, 403 47mm L32 AT-Gun - Russian sources on artillery don't mention existence of pre-war 47mm AT-Gun at all (especially not "obr.35").
Only, according to Russian Wikipedia https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/47-%D0...%C3%B6hler_M35, 96 Latvian and 4 Estonian Bohlers were seized in 1940 - although their usage was surely limited. Then, their specifications should be changed. New icon for Bohler seems 8029.

On the other hand, Wikipedia mentions usage of captured Polish (and Finnish) 37mm Bofors in 1941 https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/37-%D0...BE%D1%80%D1%81 (if it's copied, note, that a proper icon is 8000)

Also, 5800 of 2pdr guns were delivered from late 1941.

281, 282 76.2mm obr.42, 76.2mm ZiS-3 FG - new icon, probably dedicated for this gun (with muzzle brake) is 8026.
Same for #196

301 ZiS 42 - it was rather not a medium truck, but heavy (halftrack) truck used mainly as an artillery tractor. Max speed was 40 km/h (now 18)


318 SU-12 (SU-76) - IMO it should be named just SU-76. SU-12 name is redundant, since it was a developement stage designation, while it was commissioned as SU-76. Sabot ammo appeared only in 4/43 (and from 5/43 there appears SU-76M).
Front turret armour should be 4 (3) - it was sloped 35 mm in this variant (thinned in SU-76M)

336 Komsomolets STZ - STZ is redundant, but it could be designated T20 Komsomolets (same for 108,333 Komsomolets)

352 76.2mm obr36 IG - long and heavy F-22 divisional gun rather wasn't used as infantry gun.
It could be replaced with 76.2mm obr43 IG (Polish LWP unit #222, with its weapon, used from late 1943)

353 76.2mm 36 FG - new proper icon is 8024. Better name seems "76.2mm obr36 FG", in accordance with the others.

354 76.2mm 39 FG - new proper icon is 8025. Better name seems "76.2mm obr39 FG", in accordance with the others.

362 122mm 30 FH - better icon is 2115 - current has too long barrel (it was only L/15). Better name is "obr30 FH", or in fact "10/30 FH"

364 BA-27 - size should be 3 (now 2), speed only 45 km/h (now 27)
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  #2  
Old December 13th, 2017, 07:10 PM

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Default Re: Soviet OOB 11: miscellaneous observations

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362 122mm 30 FH - better icon is 2115 - current has too long barrel (it was only L/15). Better name is "obr30 FH", or in fact "10/30 FH"
...to confirm this: upper view http://armor.kiev.ua/wiki/images/thu...2014_08_12.jpg
After re-thinking, better name than "obr30 FH" would be "obr.10 FH" - it was basically obr.1910, only modernized in 1930.

366 122mm 31 FG - better name is "obr31 FG". An icon is too light gun (and has a shield) - best seems 2123 (picture https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2012...35825_art2.jpg)
Winter icon seems an error.
Same for Polish LWP #158

367 122mm 31 Bty - same for the name

370 122mm M-30 FH - icon has too thin and long barrel for 122 mm howitzer, and doesn't resemble this piece at all. Best icon seems 2167 - it's also quite light, but has good proportions (picture http://technicamolodezhi.ru/rubriki_.../1971/art6.jpg)
Same for Polish LWP #154, German #133, Czech #186, Yugo #56, Hungarian #185, Finnish #182

385 37mm obr 15 IG - there is no info on 37mm infantry guns in a Russian encyclopedia on Russian WW2 artillery. Possibly it is trench gun Rozenberg obr.15 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/37_mm_trench_gun_M1915, but according to Russian Wikipedia https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/37-%D0...BE%D0%B4%D0%B0 it was withdrawn as soon, as in 1919. According to article https://web.archive.org/web/20070929....php?nid=18073 , unspecified 37mm guns were withdrawn from battalion artillery in 1931, as obsolete. Might be easily removed.
Same for #350

462 Jeep (AOP) - same remarks, as for #46 - delivered from mid-42, not counting Bantams.

466 ZiS Truck - same remarks, as for 45 (best icon is 3170/3172, with narrower body) (and without cargo, as personnel carrier)

517 T-26E
- first were made and used in combat in 2/40, by the end of Winter War (now 4/40). Armour should be better - 15 to 40 mm plates were used (without standardization), so I suggest 4/4/3/ 4/4/3. Drawings show extra armour on rear as well.

There should be also added screened OT-133 (might be called OT-133E), also used at the same time, starting from Winter War. It also should have lower speed.

BTW: according to Baryatynski's book, all T-26 flame tanks were in fact designated in documents KhT-26, -130, -133 ("Chemical tank"), and they are called OT in post-war literature. Probably the same applies to OT-27, which in a monograph is called by the author: "OT-27/KhT-27". Russian spelling XT-26 is tempting, but might be confusing

568 Maxim(x4) AAMG - it was accepted already in 1931
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97...BE%D0%B4%D0%B0 , although there's no information, when exactly they started to appear (now 1/37). There's no information about less typical 569 Maxim(x2), but I assume it was the same.

586 STZ-5- speed was only 21 km/h (now 10)

588 76.2mm BPK RG - a picture is actually 65mm prototype RPG. Photos are here:
http://www.cris9.armforc.ru/rva_bpk.htm
http://lavandamd.ru/index.php?option...10-04-15-42-05
Officially adapted in 8/32.

593 OT-27 - according to Russian book, produced from late 1932 (now 6/35) (it had 32-36 l of mixture, enough for 30 shots or 28 seconds). It also should have DT BMG.

595 OT-131"exp" - it had a flamethrower and 45mm gun instead of CMG (according to M. Kolomiets book)
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  #3  
Old December 14th, 2017, 09:02 AM
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Default Re: Soviet OOB 11: miscellaneous observations

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301 ZiS 42 - it was rather not a medium truck, but heavy (halftrack) truck used mainly as an artillery tractor. Max speed was 40 km/h (now 18)

Michael....... light, medium and heavy trucks are normally designated that way by carry capacity which is why the ZiS 42 HT is a medium. It's carry capaicity does not justify being a " heavy" truck unless there are special considerations being made and in this case there are not. There may be some trucks that vary between classes from OOB to OOB... a fact that does not trouble me in the least.
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Last edited by DRG; December 14th, 2017 at 09:15 AM..
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Old December 14th, 2017, 07:13 PM

Pibwl Pibwl is offline
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Default Re: Soviet OOB 11: miscellaneous observations

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pibwl View Post
301 ZiS 42 - it was rather not a medium truck, but heavy (halftrack) truck used mainly as an artillery tractor. Max speed was 40 km/h (now 18)

Michael....... light, medium and heavy trucks are normally designated that way by carry capacity which is why the ZiS 42 HT is a medium. It's carry capaicity does not justify being a " heavy" truck unless there are special considerations being made and in this case there are not. There may be some trucks that vary between classes from OOB to OOB... a fact that does not trouble me in the least.
Yes, but it's "parent" 3t ZiS-5 is Heavy truck (although it's rather medium), so I thought that ZiS-42 is heavy as well, even if it is 2.2 t (according to Russian Wikipedia, I don't want to search). Sure they weren't used like GAZ medium trucks, but rather for towing guns.
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