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July 22nd, 2022, 12:45 PM
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Lieutenant General
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kingsland, GA.
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Re: MBT's
That's my thinking as well. I just couldn't remember if we had gotten to the K2 in the same way we reached agreement on the M1A2C in modeling both the M1A2T (Taiwan) and M1A2P (Poland) which for those that don't know are in the game.
When the vacation goes back to reality at home, I'll check my MBT file as I believe one or two countries elsewhere are or are close to making a decision concerning the K2.
If so, I'll " crunch" some numbers. It'll still fall in between the K1 and K2.
Depending on the status of the K2 PIP I might " boost" the numbers in a higher % then what I'm thinking now w/o the K2 PIP in the equation.
My files with status of the other foreign sales(?) and the K2 PIP will determine if I proceed or not.
Otherwise, I'm sure we'll have a long wait in regard to Poland.
Regards,
Pat
__________________
"Commanders should be counseled chiefly by persons of known talent, by those who have made the art of war their particular study, and by those who are present at the scene of the action, who see the enemy, who see the advantages that occasions offer, and who, like people embarked in the same ship, are sharers of the danger." - Roman General Lucius Paulus
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July 24th, 2022, 03:54 AM
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First Lieutenant
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pila, North west Poland
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Re: MBT's
Here some info from Ukrainian side that they will receive PT-91 Twardy in near future
https://en.defence-ua.com/industries...eive-3628.html
And here older article also from Ukrainian source about T-72M1 and T-72M1R which was revived from Poland in April.
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...ideo-2770.html |
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July 25th, 2022, 02:21 PM
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Lieutenant General
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kingsland, GA.
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Re: MBT's
Well, according to these two sites it sounds very much like the Ukraine has received within the last week an unspecified number of PT-91 Twardy tanks. The following taken is from ref. 2 below.
" Last week, Jarosław Wolski reported that Poland had delivered PT-91 Twardy tanks to Ukraine. "We certainly won't send 230 Hard, or at least I haven't heard anything about it. On the other hand, we sent Twarde, in a significant number. The wagons reached the Ukrainians. But these are things that should simply come from the Ukrainians," he said."
Looks like Poland had originally asked the U.S. for 300 M1A1 tanks. They reduced that to 118 units due to maintenace and support costs.
So, there is our connection to the K2. Due the size of the deal as I've already posted this past week with South Korea, to my thinking this might " kill" or further delay beyond our time horizon the M1A2P.
We'll as ALREADY discussed just have to wait out the M1A2P outcome "one way or another" as to a final decision.
I had to use my translator (MS) for ref. 2.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...o_ukraine.html
https://kresy.pl/wydarzenia/rzecznik...91-na-ukraine/
Regards,
Pat
__________________
"Commanders should be counseled chiefly by persons of known talent, by those who have made the art of war their particular study, and by those who are present at the scene of the action, who see the enemy, who see the advantages that occasions offer, and who, like people embarked in the same ship, are sharers of the danger." - Roman General Lucius Paulus
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July 25th, 2022, 05:29 PM
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BANNED USER
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Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Killeen, TX
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Re: MBT's
The world of international arms deals and such are murky and changing all the time.
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July 26th, 2022, 04:27 AM
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First Lieutenant
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pila, North west Poland
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Re: MBT's
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July 26th, 2022, 05:15 AM
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Lieutenant Colonel
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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Re: MBT's
This includes other things (not pure MBTs, but here we go)
Quote:
Polish shopping plans:
MBT's:
- 116 M1A1SA to be upgraded to M1A2SEPv3.
- 250 new built M1A2SEPv3.
- 180 K2 to be upgraded to K2PL.
- 820 K2PL produced in RoK and Poland.
- K3PL a future MBT developed in cooperation between Poland and Republic of Korea.
- T-72's, PT-91's and Leopard 2's will be completely withdrawn from service.
IFV's:
- 1000-1400 Borsuk IFV.
- Heavy IFV based on AS21 Redback, total numbers to be procured unknown at this moment.
155mm SPH's:
- 144 AHS Krab.
- 48 K9A1 to be upgraded in future to K9PL.
- 642 K9PL based on K9A2.
- Codevelopment between Poland and Republic of Korea for next generation 155mm SPH.
MLRS:
- Polish MoD is interested in K239 Chunmoo to supplement procurement of M142 HIMARS and WR-40 Langusta-2.
Above is taken from Damian Ratka whom is cited also in this recent Warzone article:
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...s-k9-howitzers
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July 28th, 2022, 08:20 AM
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First Lieutenant
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pila, North west Poland
Posts: 640
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Re: MBT's
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July 28th, 2022, 12:50 PM
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Lieutenant General
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kingsland, GA.
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Re: MBT's
South Korean and Polish K2/K9 & FA-50 Trainer and Light Attack jets contract has been signed.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...0_fighter.html
No time for breakdown.
Regards,
Pat
__________________
"Commanders should be counseled chiefly by persons of known talent, by those who have made the art of war their particular study, and by those who are present at the scene of the action, who see the enemy, who see the advantages that occasions offer, and who, like people embarked in the same ship, are sharers of the danger." - Roman General Lucius Paulus
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July 31st, 2022, 04:11 PM
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Lieutenant General
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: MBT's
Well after decades of asking and a lot of maybes from us, finally it looks as if TAIWAN is going to get their first American tanks in decades.
This is the first time a contract has been awarded and money given to support production Taiwanese tanks in in particular the M1A2T as we entered in the last patch (Along with the M1A2P). I now have more confidence in the START date but, as expressed contingent on the U.S. having to get the process going before the end of this Fiscal Year. That's now accomplished.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...or_taiwan.html
The recovery vehicle aside (Nongame issue.) they will receive both the M1070Al Heavy Equipment Transporter (HET) (As they don't have the transport capability to move those tanks.) and ammo resupply vehicles.
https://www.military-today.com/trucks/m1070a1.htm
North Macedonia I don't believe is represented in the game. And neither is the fact that they donated their T-72A tanks to the Ukraine (Though they will be getting an as yet undisclosed Western tanks as replacements to equipment a full Battalion.) going to have a game impact. However, what caught my eye was the specific ammo loadout for the T-72A. Could be useful or fall into the category of " whatever"  in either case here, you have it...
"The tank carries a total of 39 rounds, 12 are APFSDS-T, 21 HE-FRAG(FS), and the remaining six HEAT-FS. The additional rounds of ammunition are stowed in racks behind the turret basket and in indentations in the rear floor fuel cell and second forward right cell near the driver. " To the second " highlighted" portion of the above para, the rest of ammo stored on the fuel cell locations, are you kidding me!?! 
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...ern_tanks.html
Well, I guess I should shower up before the dinner bell! After playing around yesterday in " the Sun and fun at work" at a comfortable ~112 w/heat index yeah, I'm literally " chillin' out" in the " man cave"! 
Regards,
Pat
__________________
"Commanders should be counseled chiefly by persons of known talent, by those who have made the art of war their particular study, and by those who are present at the scene of the action, who see the enemy, who see the advantages that occasions offer, and who, like people embarked in the same ship, are sharers of the danger." - Roman General Lucius Paulus
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September 19th, 2022, 02:13 AM
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Lieutenant General
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: MBT's
I see it's been a while since I (Or anyone.) posted anything and these I've held for a bit as the dates will show. Both are important, at least to some of us anyway due to where we're talking about. And the Polish issue turned into a "cluster puck" as you'll see when you get to it. I think I got it sorted out! 
Morocco: I'm just going to make this easy though you'll see due to the request from them that the end of tanks as already posted is to occur in early/mid 2023. Depending on what we decide to give to Morocco. From the ref. my comments will be in bold.
"The Government of Morocco has requested to purchase enhancements to one hundred sixty-two ( 162) Abrams tanks procured through the Excess Defense Article (EDA) program to one of the following variants: M1A1 Situational Awareness (baseline version), M1A2M (If they get this tank it'll be the same one we built for Taiwan M1A2T and Poland M1A2P. (includes Commander’s Independent Thermal Viewer) or M1A1 U.S. Marine Corps version (includes Slew to Cue) (W ell that'll be the FEP WITH armor adjustments due to DU REMOVAL.)."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...r_m1a1_sa.html
As I had already reported concerning the Foreign Sales M1A2 SEP V2 as discussed above for Morocco, the only country to see them would be TAIWAN (By the refs at the time.) before games end and the following will further back that up from those refs and my thoughts on those tanks as well at the time.
TAIWAN has gotten their first M1A2T and has started training on it with their instructors per SOP.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...d_in_june.html
https://twitter.com/ronkainen7k15/st...04180509917185
The pictures look like that's POSSIBLY at the ABERDEEN test area.
Also scroll down on ref 2, there were already rumor's that the Ukrainians had already captured 1 or 2 of the Russian T-90M tanks. This is the first post I believe I've seen to actually show one they captured. And it looks right to me as a T-90M.
I wonder who else (Plural.) will be looking at this tank besides the Ukrainians!?!  
Poland: Before anyone says anything; a decision was made to enter the M1A2P in the last patch as a " Hail Mary Pass" but as the above for Taiwan has now shown the production line is slated for their tanks while we continue to convert tanks to the M1A2C.
We only have one tank production facility that's been in that role since WWII. The article below is from 2013 but useful for this discussion. Remember COVID and the resulting supply chain issues have slowed production (It's expected to take about 2yrs (Already started.) to generally recover to Pre-pandemic levels depending on the weapons system.
https://www.cnet.com/culture/before-...s-abrams-tank/
I HIGHLY recommend that Polish CHANGE/UNIT 007/M1A2P/START/NOV 2023 VICE NOV 2022. //Another "Hail Mary" maybe.
Some I feel are still doubting me hear so from JANES I quote the following...
"The tanks are expected to be delivered to Poland by 2026 and will be deployed in eastern Poland to deter Russia."
"Polish Armaments Agency spokesperson Lieutenant Colonel Krzysztof Płatek told Janes on 5 April that these 28 MBTs would be M1A2 SEPv2s and would not comprise the first batch of the contract. The tanks will be used by US Army personnel to train Polish crews while the first generation of Polish instructors is trained in the United States."
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...1a2-sepv3-mbts
Originally the plan was to train them on advanced M1A1 tanks which Poland would keep.
And it looks that's back on again because you must remember a couple of months back Poland signed a contract for the K2 and K9 from S. Korea. So stand by to go Huh!!
https://www.overtdefense.com/2022/01...s-procurement/
https://www.overtdefense.com/2022/08...-abrams-tanks/
This M1A1 modification falls about at the... "The modification is often referred to as M1A1 AIM v.2." Minus again DU ARMOR.
Regards,
Pat
__________________
"Commanders should be counseled chiefly by persons of known talent, by those who have made the art of war their particular study, and by those who are present at the scene of the action, who see the enemy, who see the advantages that occasions offer, and who, like people embarked in the same ship, are sharers of the danger." - Roman General Lucius Paulus
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