Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

[WilliamB]

The F-105 is defenitely a mistake, but this leaves Taiwan without any SEAD aircraft until the Mirage 2000 ARM becomes available in June of 1997 (Unit 148). Does anyone know what they were using for the SEAD mission until then?

[MarkSheppard]

Originally Posted by WilliamB

The F-105 is defenitely a mistake, but this leaves Taiwan without any SEAD aircraft until the Mirage 2000 ARM becomes available in June of 1997 (Unit 148). Does anyone know what they were using for the SEAD mission until then?

Some investigation into the Mirage 2000:

48 x Mirage 2000-5EI Single Seat
12 x Mirage 2000-5DI Trainers

First jet arrived May 1997, next eight arrived October 1998.

Been doing some searching and the Mirages were delivered as pure air to air fighters with no ground attack munitions.

The Command: Modern Air / Naval Operations guys have it with no air to ground weapons.

https://cmano-db.com/aircraft/175/

I believe the current Unit 417 [Mirage 2000] armed with 70mm Hydra Rocket Pods and AP cluster bombs, is a good "compromise" -- Taiwan may not have ordered any high tech air to ground weaponry for their Mirage fleet, but they can still hang "dumb" weapons on them.

=============================

The SIPRI Arms Transfers Database

https://armstransfers.sipri.org/ArmsTransfer/

says that no SEAD missiles were transferred to Taiwan in the timeframe they cover.

================================

It appears the --FIRST-- ROCAF ARM was the TC-2A developed for the F-CK-1 [Ching-Kuo]; same range [90-100 km] and speed as the AGM-78 Standard ARM, but with a much smaller warhead [22 kg]. Entered service 2014-2015 ish or maybe in 2017 with the F-CK-1C/D Ching Kuo HSIANG ZHAN upgrade program.

The second ROCAF ARM will be 50 x AGM-88B HARMs refurbished to AGM-88F HARM standard ordered in June 2017, with delivery by 2027 for the ROCAF's F-16 Block 70 fleet. Another 100 AGM-88Bs were ordered in March 2023 for the F-16 Block 70 Fleet.

=====================

It kind of does make sense why ROCAF had no SEAD capability until 2014-2017 -- it's not until fairly recently that the PLA(N) actually became a credible SAM threat -- they didn't get Sovremenny DDGs until 1999.

Before that all the PLA(N)'s guided missile ships used the HQ-7 which was based off the French Crotale short range SAM.

Remember, the ROCAF doesn't need to destroy SAM sites on mainland China to win a war; but they do need to sink the PLA(N) to beat an invasion force.

[MarkSheppard]

East Germany (OB36) doesn't appear to have the MiG-29.

The DDR bough 20 MiG-29A and 4 MiG-29UB, with the first unit commissioning in Spring 1988.

A very close match (just roundels being wrong) is already in game with icon 3130. MiG-29-- Polish 3 tone camo

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Mark,
They are missing on purpose as the Mig-29 wasn't used in any other role except as a fighter in both the DDR and Luftwaffe. This all STARTED on 08-26-12, 04:06 AM God that seems so long ago. I'm just glad I remember these but, it goes to show the data is in these threads generally.

See the following Posts 96-98, Posts 114-117 and Post 123 (F-4).

From Post 96 ...
"6. Also, several East German units will need to be deleted to include all MiG-29A and MiG-29M (Which as now known they never had.) which like the MiG-29M includes the Mil-24W HIND. Below is the response I received concerning the East German use of the MiG-29A as a possible SEAD unit as posted in the previous post as well.
Note: A little tone changes which is my fault as I should've indicated "configurations offered" or some such as my wording caused the response.

"Pat,

What you say here about four East German MiG 29s being used for SEAD doesn't sound reasonable. As an air superiority aircraft designed for air defence why would the East Germans use four for SEAD purposes? That role would be better suited to a unit armed with the SU 25 and probably assigned to a Soviet unit rather than divert four MiG 29s from their basic role. Just my thoughts.

Regards,

Gordon"

And another response I just got from "RAMJET"/Steve LSK/LV(DDR)/LUFTWAFFE MiG-29A pilot...
"The LSK/LV as well as the Luftwaffe used the MiG-29 only as a fighter aircraft. There were some trials in the air-to-ground role with unguided rockets in the DDR times if I remember right, but these were just trials."

Don might remember these posts, Gordon and Steve were both LSK/LV (DDR) and Luftwaffe MIG-29 pilots. I believe Gordan continued flying when the Luftwaffe received the F-4 Phantoms as would Steve.

Steve would continue his career as a EUROFIGHTER pilot as mentioned in the 144-117 posts somewhere. He took ALL the pictures from the posts I listed above.

Somewhere in this "chain of posts" beyond his Post 98 was where the final decision was made which I believe was achieved by PM between us and passing along a couple of emails from both Gordon and Steve to remove them. How can you make the case when 2 actual LSK/LV Mig-29 pilots are saying it they didn't use them except for what they were designed to do as Air Superiority Fighters.

How did I find these guys? Well, I saw an issue and dug for my information and found an East German LSK/LV Pilots association in Germany this is how I got with Gordan which as the email I quoted above would lead to Steve and his generosity in sending me his pictures and giving us permission to use them in the game. In the Helo Thread he also sent me pictures of the DDR and Luftwaffe HIND-24 Helicopters fairly close to the dates the above posts where sent.

For "GP"...
https://d-d-r.de/ddr-politisches-sys...itkraefte.html
(Might need to use your translator. Was posted translated maybe still is.)

Regards,
Pat