Proportions mod: So confusing!

[Mylon]

On huge domed planets, the facility slots fill up pretty quickly and you have to destroy a settlement to build a city, which can take many a turn without a space yard.

Medium freighters + Population Liner III can only hold 1M, still. Having to get module IV or so is a bit much to research just to double what you can do with module I.

Yet another hardcoded problem I noticed: Space yards make the penalties trivial. A colony with 1M population can build at 2000 per resource per turn.

[Phoenix-D]

"Yet another hardcoded problem I noticed: Space yards make the penalties trivial. A colony with 1M population can build at 2000 per resource per turn."

Umm, not in the Proportions game I'm playing on PBW.. I have a breathable world with a space yard II, 105 million people, and it only produces at 1370, not 2500 (which is what the yard would do normally)

Phoenix-D

[PvK]

Originally posted by Mylon:
On huge domed planets, the facility slots fill up pretty quickly and you have to destroy a settlement to build a city, which can take many a turn without a space yard.

An average empire can put five slots on a huge domed colony. It usually takes a few years to build even one city. I don't see anything out of line.

Medium freighters + Population Liner III can only hold 1M, still. Having to get module IV or so is a bit much to research just to double what you can do with module I.

Well, it's my opinion that it is a bit much to try to get 2M colonists and their necessities onto a medium-sized ship, from the design standpoint of Proportions. Doubling the capacity of a population transport isn't something I think should be a casual achievement. On the other hand, it doesn't take any research to just build two ships and fleet them...

Yet another hardcoded problem I noticed: Space yards make the penalties trivial. A colony with 1M population can build at 2000 per resource per turn.

As Phoenix-D pointed out, you're mistaken about that.

PvK

[Mylon]

Check http://www.liquid2k.com/mylon/screen1.jpg and http://www.liquid2k.com/mylon/screen2.jpg

I couldn't figure out how to get both population and production in the same screenshot, but this works. Is this a bug?

[PvK]

The first screenshot isn't loading... oh, my fault for using a crummy web browser like Internet Explorer. Opera shows it just fine.

13M is a 35% ship yard rate factor, so it does look a bit high at 2075 construction rate, though it depends. I'd need to know what tech level your construction yard is, and what your other modifiers are. Are you Hardy Industrialists? What is your construction aptitude level? Do you have any system-wide construction-accelerating facilities? Etc. You could send me your saved game, if you like.

PvK

[Mylon]

Oh... I guess those population modifiers don't modify bonuses in themselves. So building a spaceyard doesn't give me a 45% production bonus, it gives me a 300% production bonus (-75% to -30%).

Well... I guess hardy industrialist pretty useful for low level colonies!

[Suicide Junkie]

Building a spaceyard dosen't give you a build rate bonus, it simply sets the base build rate to the abilities of the space yard.
All your rate modifiers are then added up and multiplied with the new base rate.

[DirectorTsaarx]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Building a spaceyard dosen't give you a build rate bonus, it simply sets the base build rate to the abilities of the space yard.
All your rate modifiers are then added up and multiplied with the new base rate.

Building a spaceyard gives you the effect of a "build rate bonus" if you have the hardy industrialist trait (which gives a bonus to "planetary space yards"). IOW, the unmodded game allows planets to build at a base rate of 2000/2000/2000 without a yard; adding a Spaceyard I (without HI trait) keeps the base build rate at 2000/2000/2000, but you can build ships as well; adding a SY1 when your race has the HI trait gives a base build rate of 2500/2500/2500; if you also use racial points for increasing space yard rate, you can get even better figures (I've got a game going (non-Proportions) where I took space yard rate to 20% bonus, plus HI, and a SY1 on a new colony allows building at 2900/2900/2900; new colonies without a SY only build at 2000/2000/2000.

That appears to be what Mylon has done as well, since he refers to a "45% bonus" by building a space yard facility...

[ September 09, 2002, 18:02: Message edited by: DirectorTsaarx ]

[Aub]

Another question on Proportions design.

The cities and cultural centers have phased shields. This makes it nearly impossible to take out a homeworld in early or mid-game, even one of a minor race (we are talking about 20000 shield points!).

When you DO want to take one out, however, null-space weapons (and shiled-damaging weapons, if you're temporal) become priceless.

Doesn't it create imbalance towards shield-damaging weapons?

Thanks -- Aub

[Mylon]

Heh... Is what I'm concerned with is someone building like 10 space yards over their homeworld (or any non-domed planet) and dedicating most of them towards weapon platform/satellite construction. I know I do it!