WW2 German Mod

[DRG]

Imagine this scenario because had the war in Europe gone on to August 1945 there is NO doubt it would have ended this way

-- Imagine the Seelow heights battles had been delayed to the end of July and Russian forces had not yet entered Berlin. One morning Berlin is incenerated in a blinding light in full view of 1 million Russian ( and German ) troops and suddenly the war is over

It's one thing to hear about it happening on a distant island. Quite another to have it happen in front of a million front line troops many of whom are expecting to die in the final assualt.

Methinks the postwar might have been quite a bit different

Don

[Imp]

No it is not. Just pull the plug on the PC when it appears over the battlefield...

Andy

Made me giggle

For those of you who want to nuke a "friend" heres a little app just type his address into google maps & select your bomb
All done "In the best possible taste" of course
http://www.carloslabs.com/node/16

[Warhero]

Please, don't be so serious. In fact idea is fun (at least my opinion). It would be nice to see whole timeline 1946-200? battles with modern equipment vs. (nazi?) Germany. Result: one sided slaugter? Ok, it could be surely in "real world" but what if german scientists/developers had possibilities to develop German arsenal (not only nukes) better than they were in reality until May 1945...

[Imp]

Please, don't be so serious. In fact idea is fun (at least my opinion). It would be nice to see whole timeline 1946-200? battles with modern equipment vs. (nazi?) Germany. Result: one sided slaugter? Ok, it could be surely in "real world" but what if german scientists/developers had possibilities to develop German arsenal (not only nukes) better than they were in reality until May 1945...

Its easy to do if time dependant but why not just do in WW2 assume timeline from mid 45 every month = 3 or 6 months & build OOBs based on that sides strengths or paths taken so advances.
Make the assumption nukes are a failed project but everything else develops faster driven by the continued war & supply building is not a problem.

Germany better guns firecontrol range finder possibly rocket arty or weapons first to invent poor quality ATGMs
US Giros vision aids armour as they dont like losing men, also always have worst guns best airforce, the attack helo. Big vehicles profile seems disregarded. Claymore type weapon for vehicle infantry defence.
Russia speed & small size flame weapons. Big guns with low ammo loads
Brits Advanced armour specialist vehicles the tank slow pokes armoured cars, decent guns (probably should have giros & vision instead of US as US seemed to neglect after the war). Radar AAguns

Giving them all national characteristics so US could take current models up armour (losing speed till improve power plant) improve giros. They would improve in other areas just not as quickly.
Troops similar RPGs semiauto weapons

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by Imp

Its easy to do if time dependant but why not just do in WW2 assume timeline from mid 45 every month = 3 or 6 months & build OOBs based on that sides strengths or paths taken so advances.
Make the assumption nukes are a failed project but everything else develops faster driven by the continued war & supply building is not a problem.

Germany better guns firecontrol range finder possibly rocket arty or weapons first to invent poor quality ATGMs
US Giros vision aids armour as they dont like losing men, also always have worst guns best airforce, the attack helo. Big vehicles profile seems disregarded. Claymore type weapon for vehicle infantry defence.
Russia speed & small size flame weapons. Big guns with low ammo loads
Brits Advanced armour specialist vehicles the tank slow pokes armoured cars, decent guns (probably should have giros & vision instead of US as US seemed to neglect after the war). Radar AAguns

Giving them all national characteristics so US could take current models up armour (losing speed till improve power plant) improve giros. They would improve in other areas just not as quickly.
Troops similar RPGs semiauto weapons

Then you have to have the Nazis supplied with oil. This was something they just had very little of (converting coal to petrol was very inefficient). Once Romania was out of the Axis, no natural petroleum products.

By 1945, the gee-wizz ME262 were being towed out to the runway by horse transport due to severe fuel shortages.

So by all means have your mythical uber-panzers, about 2-4 per brigade fielded able to run due to fuel shortages, the remainder as movement 0 "tin pillboxes" presumably dragged into place the day before by horse teams. No close air support. Nothing much that needs rubber (e,g has tyres). And no trucks, motor cycles or half-tracks, just have horses and carts for the arty transport. Grunts walk.

Andy

[Imp]

Then you have to have the Nazis supplied with oil. This was something they just had very little of (converting coal to petrol was very inefficient). Once Romania was out of the Axis, no natural petroleum products.

I did say ignoring supply just putting ideas forward if they are considering doing because by the end of the war the Allies had nearly caught up. So if they are going to stand a chance of surviving even to the 50s they need upgrading Centurion comes to mind might be slow but good FC & decent armour Panther vs possibly MkIV !!!!
ISU 4? might be a problem to certainly caused me a few.

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

So by all means have your mythical uber-panzers, about 2-4 per brigade fielded able to run due to fuel shortages, the remainder as movement 0 "tin pillboxes" presumably dragged into place the day before by horse teams. No close air support. Nothing much that needs rubber (e,g has tyres). And no trucks, motor cycles or half-tracks, just have horses and carts for the arty transport. Grunts walk.
Andy

As I recall there was a wood burning generator setup available at least for the Panzer IV (used for crews training and such).
Coal powder was at least considered as jet fuel. That's what desperation will do to you.

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by Warhero

Please, don't be so serious. In fact idea is fun (at least my opinion). It would be nice to see whole timeline 1946-200? battles with modern equipment vs. (nazi?) Germany. Result: one sided slaugter? Ok, it could be surely in "real world" but what if german scientists/developers had possibilities to develop German arsenal (not only nukes) better than they were in reality until May 1945...

Figuring out what would actually have been produced under which circumstances would be an headache of massive proportions. In real life IIRC by 1940 or so the germans were hoping to end the war by 1942 with 50mm gun Pz III as the mainstay of the panzer divisions and some short 75mm gun Pz IV and Stug III for support.
A 45 tons Tiger lite like tank was being developed as a future replacement. That was pretty much it. Nobody was dreaming about Jagdapanthers, King Tigers etc.

[troopie]

And where are the Germans going to get more chrome? They already bought all Turkey was producing, and it wasn't enough. So with jet engines you have a choice. You chrome the insides of the engines and short your ground forces. Your gun barrels wear out faster. Then the Sovs eat you alive on the ground. Or you build all your shiny new ground toys, and short your jets. Without chrome, the life span of a Jumo Junkers OO4 engine is 45 hours, not long enough to be useful.

And this is speculation, but I wonder how many of the paper only projects were just something to keep designers busy.

troopie

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by troopie

You chrome the insides of the engines and short your ground forces. Your gun barrels wear out faster. Then the Sovs eat you alive on the ground.

Dunno about that. Chromium is used to extend barrel life, which is obviously a bonus in peacetime when weapons have to last as long as possible to cope with training needs without needing frequent expensive replacements. But wartime attrition make that less of an issue: how long was the average life of a PAK gun or a Hetzer at the front before being destroyed anyway ?
I am not saying that it weasn't a factor but no worse than Tungsten shortage (which basically made high end AP rounds such as APCR or APCNR impossible to produce during late war) or Molybdenum shortage (which made armor plates in tanks more prone to spalling). Petrol shortage was really critial.