YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [7/24 players left]

[WraithLord]

Yes. I already posted I'll reduce VP. Perhaps 10 though. We are 24 players after all, 9 is barely more than a third.

[WingedDog]

I think - less the VP's - more dynamic the game. Reducing VP's would force people to fight each other rather then turtling.
Besides - if nobody is really going to stop the leader, what's the difference 9 VP's or 11? Eleven would just make the game longer.
I think 9 is just the right number, but it's just my opinion. I wander what others think.

[Dimaz]

10 is good.

[Calahan]

Originally Posted by WraithLord

Calahan, in your opinion, how bad is it, balance wise, if we go with vanilla Alexander?
Would be great if you find it possible to apply the pareto principal here, do 20% modifications to fix 80% of the perceived issues

IMO, the starting locs. don't have to be 100% identical as I find a small measure of variance in start. locs to add flavor to the game.

I've just started looking at the Alexander map in the editor, and it appears there are no pre-set start locations as I thought, other than the odd few isolated provinces that are marked as 'no start". For some reason I remember the map being pre-set for something like 15+2, but obviously I must have just imagined that

If we go for vanilla Alexander(no sites), then it will literally mean totally random starting locations (unless my understanding is wrong regarding map editing and the "no_start" tag), as about 80%+ of the provinces seem to be marked as starting locations. Some people are fine with random starts, other people obviously have issues with it.

So if balancing the start locations needs to be done anyway (which it will unless you go for random starts), then I don't foresee it being that much extra work to sort out the issue regarding water nations that I talked about.

I hope to have an hour or two free this evening, so I should be able to make a start on it. As the sooner I can get a Beta version out, the sooner people can start testing it for unwanted errors etc.

[Aethyr]

Either is fine

[Zeldor]

You'd probably have to do it by hand for 24 players. I had to do same thing for Utopia, but it was 18 players iirc.

10/24 VPs sounds like small thing, but people are probably right that even that is too much, especially for RAND game. LR is what? 9/18? And there are some voices that it will never end, or at least drag over turn 100. I'm not in it, but I suggest you go with 9 VPs. People should be smart enough to stop nations with big teleport + crumble capabilities And it's about winning and stopping others from winning, so faster game is better.

BTW, let me know when I can roll nations, some people are pesterin me on IRC already, dunno if I can roll them nations earlier.

[Psycho]

Alexander is preset for 16+3 nations (I pity the poor water sucker in the middle). You can see it in the map file at the start - #start locations. Maybe just drop one player and start with them?

My preference is higher VP condition if it makes any difference. No clams should reduce MM enough.

[WraithLord]

Calahan and all who care to opine, would it be that terrible if we go for random start locations?- If it's perceived to be problematic then we'll go with your, non-existent-yet-and-pending-your-work, fixed map

Re. VPs. 10 sounds like a good compromise between late game MM and the fact that we have 24 players on board. Why don't we stick with that?

Zeldor, Let's wait for last 2 slots to fill. I don't think this will take more than a day or two at most. If we don't get them full by that time we'll just drop out the 2 worst EA nations and get started with 22. Once the list is full I'll send you the names for you to roll.

All: Please take the time to start sending your emails to me. I'll need them for setting up the server. I'll probably also send them to rdonj - our game admin.

[Calahan]

Ok, I've just spent the last hour or so playing around with the Alexander map (map voting is now closed btw). I should be able to deliver on all the aims I stated before, as the map is a bit more generous than I first thought with regards available space. I also don't mind spending time to get the map right before the game starts. If the game is going to last several months, a few hours extra at the start means very little time wise, but could mean a great deal enjoyment wise.

Only question that remains about the map is the water nations. At the moment I've joined up the main bodies of water using the rivers by connecting 192-227, 227-266 and 265 - 7.

I've also added two rivers (or will add once I get my easel out) to connect 265 - 251 and 266 - 5. This has the effect of turning the water into a wraparound. I am then looking to start the water nations at 29, 265, and 121. This gives each water nation 3 adjoining provinces, and each water capital is 6 provinces away from both of the other two water nations capitals. So nobody has to be in the middle.

This is the only way I can see to balance 3 water nations. The other alternatives are to either accept one water nation getting a doomed start, or as Psycho says, drop one water nation, and let the two remaining fight it out on the usual water provinces (ie. Without the river connections I've added).

I might be able to release a Beta map within the next hour or two. Failing that I hope to get it out by tomorrow afternoon (GMT)

And if anyone has any views with regards the map, balancing, what to do with the water nations etc. then please shout your thoughts out sooner rather than later

Originally Posted by Psycho

Alexander is preset for 16+3 nations .

Thanks for this. Knew I'd seen it somewhere and wasn't just going crazy.

[Lingchih]

Those sound like good modifications, Calahan. Thanks for all the work. I would prefer nice, fixed starting locations for a game of this size.