Dominions 3: Speculation Wars

[B0rsuk]

Hey !
This topic has three purposes:
1) To have fun
2) to predict some facts about Dominions 3
3) To provoke developers into repplying.

I will start. Basing on some info from various posts, including Wishlist and Faq threads http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...=&fpart=1&vc=1
It is confirmed that each theme is a separate nation, actually. And the nations are divided into 3 eras (early, mid, late for lack of better name). It is safe to assume that themes/factions from two different eras will never meet each other in unmodded game.

Assumption1: It will now be possible to take, say, Diabolical Faith (Marignon) and Restless Worshippers. Themes now considered special will probably be able to be augmented with extra dominion types, water cult, desert sun, etc.

Assumption2: Let's do some guesswork and see which era does each theme belong to.

Early Mid Late
Ermor: Broken Empire > Soul Gate/Ashen empire ?
Pythium - marsh people before Ermor came> regular Pythium > ?
Regular Pangaea > "Iron" Pangaea > Carrion Woods ?
C'tis Desert Tombs > normal C'tis > ?
Golden Era > Arcoscephale > ?
Niefelheim > Jotunheim > Utgard ?
?? > Abysia > Blood of Humans
??? > Marignon/Fires > Conquerors/Diabolical
? > Ulm > Black Faith/Black Forest
Spring&Autumn/Barbarian Kings > Tien Chi > ?
Last of the Tuatha > Man > ?
Poor Machaka > Pitiful Machaka > Corrupted Machaka (see modern Africa for reference on last one)
Raptors > Caelum > ?



Assumption3: Some themes may be removed. Which and why ?
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[Kuritza_Dru]

My 5 cents...

Pythium with C'Tis (sauromancers helping the Theurgs) > Serpent cult / Pythium. Dunno in which order. Perhaps second era is about 'sauromancers are gone, but there are still some serpent temples around', and the third one is a 'pure' Pythium. At least I wouldn't like tho think that Theurg's litanias aren't offered in great Cathedrals anymore.
Desert tombs > C'Tis > Miasma, with Tombs not as a 'return of the ancient Kings' theme, but as an 'Ancient nation obsessed with Life after Death' thingy. More Egypt please.
Golden Era - Alexandria - Arcoscephale.
We have seen Arco as an old (tired) Empire and we've seen that land in its time of legends. Now its time to play a Hellinistic Empire at its prime.
Diabolical Faith / Marignon / Conquerors.
When the first waves of the Undead overwhelmed the outer defenses, great fear arose. While the most devout priests were sacrificing their live at the front lines, others were... sacrificing others lives to get help from an even more sinister source. Heresy took some time to weed off, but eventually the Inquisition was founded and succeeded in both dealing with both keeping the Death at bay and weeding out the blasphemy.
First of the Tuatha > Man > Last of the Tuatha.

[Endoperez]

Post 388426 in the Wishlist thread has some more information:

Kristoffer O.:
The number of nations is tricky. Themes are reworked and put into the three ages. Niefelheim becomes Jotunheim in the middle era and is Utgård in the late era. Some nations do not exist in some eras etc. What earlier was a theme is now considered a nation in its own right which makes modding much easier. Thus I do not know exactly how may nations there will be, but about 60 is probably right. Entirely new ones (with early and late versions excluded) there are perhaps ten new ones. Sauromatia is very different from Pythium, but could be considered an early version. They do have Hydras, but Witch Kings are very different from Arch theurgs. Likewise Yomi is quite different from the later form Shinuyama and the last "nipponese" nation Jomon. The semblances between early middle and late Caelum are stronger.

Yomi -> Shinuyama -> Jomon

Vanheim is probably
Helheim - Vanheim - Midgård

My quess that there are some alternative timelines. As an example, Ulm can be either Black Forest or Black Steel, and those exist in the same era (I think). Marignon, Ulm and Pythium didn't exist before the Cataclysm (undead Ermor themes). Marignon turned to priesthood to keep the undead at bay, Ulm abandoned magic and Pythium tries to hold the memory of the old ways.

I except Middle Era to be quite similar to base themes. I think Early Era is more about units and less about humans and more about raw power than magic (with the Vanir, the Tuatha, the Niefel etc around). There could be exceptions (Spring&Autumn, Golden Era in a way), but I think really powerful magic will be mainly Late Era. With at least one undead theme of Ermor, Black Forest, whatever Late version of Mictlan is, possibly Miasma, Utgård... Also, I think Humans will become more common as the time goes by, as seen in Blood of Humans and Utgård. However, the human nations themselves will also change, to interesting directions... Maybe more corrupted humans along the lines of Black Forest and Diabolical Faith?

I don't know much about Machaka or Africa, but it and Mictlan could become very interesting later on...

[Nerfix]

I think early Mictlan will be the Mictlan of the "pure" era, no blood sacrifices.

[Endoperez]

If anything, that would be the middle Era. "Mictlan is an ancient kingdom. Since the dawn of the kingdom, blood has been spilled in the temples of the capital. For a brief period of time, blood sacrifices were banned by a king called Lawgiver, but now..." from the description.


Has anyone wondered why Dominions players are pretty contempt with what they have? While recently there have been more threads about DomIII, the topic hasn't been given much thought. Also, I think this is the first thread ever started so that people could quess what DomIII will be like. This is also very spesific, unlike the Wishlist, and asks for speculation, unlike most threads about DomIII.

[Kristoffer O]

> 1) To have fun

I have.

> 2) to predict some facts about Dominions 3

I have.

> 3) To provoke developers into repplying.

I have.



You are on the right track, with some mistakes of course.

Keep on guessing. I like it


Some themes are merged.

[Ironhawk]

Kuritza_Dru said:
First of the Tuatha > Man > Last of the Tuatha.

How about...

Last of the Tuatha > Man > The Tuatha Strikes Back!!!

[Alneyan]

Nay, it's not quite that : Last of the Tuathas, Man, Barbarian Kings, in that order. You know, *those* greenish Barbarians that swarm across the pond.

Speaking of Barbarian Kings, I would put it right at the end, rather than before the main theme: it seems to fit their history and history better.

[Vicious Love]

B0rsuk said:
Pythium - marsh people before Ermor came> regular Pythium > ?

You got it all wrong. Pythium are the Byzantines. They split from Ermor while Ermor collapsed under its own undead weight. Then chose to go off and live in a swamp, apparently. Go figure. If Serpent Cult is still around in Dom 3, I imagine it comes after base Pythium.
If Ermor's first age is before the 'splosion(Malediction? Cataclysm? That nasty thing that happened), first age Pythium would have to be part of the empire, if only in name. 'course, pre-nastyness Ermor also predates Marignon and Ulm, so the timeline would still need some work. I imagine the earliest available Ermor will still be the Broken Empire.

furthermore, Kuritza_Dru said:
Pythium with C'Tis (sauromancers helping the Theurgs) > Serpent cult / Pythium. Dunno in which order. Perhaps second era is about 'sauromancers are gone, but there are still some serpent temples around', and the third one is a 'pure' Pythium.

I thought Pythium split from Ermor precisely because of the sauromancers, and all those signs and portents they entailed?

Desert tombs > C'Tis > Miasma, with Tombs not as a 'return of the ancient Kings' theme, but as an 'Ancient nation obsessed with Life after Death' thingy. More Egypt please.

That does solve the problem of Miasma and Desert Tombs being somewhat exclusive, but it raises the question of just where the undead half of Desert Tombs C'tis went between eras.

Golden Era - Alexandria - Arcoscephale.
We have seen Arco as an old (tired) Empire and we've seen that land in its time of legends. Now its time to play a Hellinistic Empire at its prime.

Sounds good, though there might not be that much of a difference between mid- and late-era Arcoscephale in terms of actual units and commanders.

Diabolical Faith / Marignon / Conquerors.
When the first waves of the Undead overwhelmed the outer defenses, great fear arose. While the most devout priests were sacrificing their live at the front lines, others were... sacrificing others lives to get help from an even more sinister source. Heresy took some time to weed off, but eventually the Inquisition was founded and succeeded in both dealing with both keeping the Death at bay and weeding out the blasphemy.

Also good, but raises the question of why CotS would be synchronous with Ashen Empire or Soul Gate. There's also something to be said for Marignon resorting to diablerie only after exhausting their alternatives. I'd imagine they found it almost as abhorrent as the cult of death, back when they could afford to be picky.

First of the Tuatha > Man > Last of the Tuatha.

But... base Man hasn't got any Tuatha. It's already after LotT.

Regular Pangaea > "Iron" Pangaea > Carrion Woods ?

Carrion Woods and New Era are mutually exclusive. One will have to be reworked to fit them into the same timeline.

Raptors > Caelum > ?

Return of the Raptors necessarily follows base Caelum. Pre-banishment Caelum was presumably nothing like RotR, as it had most of what base Caelum has, and the harab seraphs. Now THAT'S overpowered.

[Kristoffer O]

> Now THAT'S overpowered.

One might think so