Conceptual Balance Mod 1.94 released!

[Valerius]

I saw the discussion of tarts on Dom3mods and wanted to add my thoughts since a big reason I started running modified CBM games was dissatisfaction with tart mechanics.

I think a reason qm kept the cost of a GoRed tart skewed towards N gems is because they were the only game in town (especially post clams) for a non-national, non-unique SC (with magic diversity to boot) and as inefficient as it may have been he wanted non-Chalice/GoH holders to be able to summon enough tarts so that they could get some non-feebleminded ones. If costs had been skewed towards D gems that wouldn't have been possible.

But I think that the EDM summons as well as other CBM changes have now made it so that tart pricing can and should assume that you have the chalice/GoH. If you don't, then they shouldn't be a good buy given how many will be feebleminded. If you do, then you get an SC chassis (which of course you can now also find elsewhere) and the big reward is the magic diversity that comes along with it.

I think the key thing is setting reasonable price points. First, decide what the price of restore soul should be, using non-tart undead as the reference point. I think you've got to go with the worst case scenario. What is a fair price point for restore soul when used in conjuction with umbrals or perhaps morrigans? Yes, those are national summons but you don't want to underprice the spell and have it abused.

Having set that, you can then say a tart will cost x N gems to GoR (factoring in IIRC that 1 in 5 will already arrive as commanders) so what is a fair price in D gems for the summon (say an average of the prices you'd set to the seven different types of tarts if you were pricing them individually)?

I'd also like to add another vote to removing shattered soul. I view it as a failed attempt to balance tarts that is really just irritating.

As an aside, even though it's not going happen, if I could ask IW to add one spell to the game it would be a version of tartarian gate that didn't add afflictions. Wouldn't even have to be active or replace the current tart spell - just have it available for modders.

[Redeyes]

Originally Posted by Valerius

As an aside, even though it's not going happen, if I could ask IW to add one spell to the game it would be a version of tartarian gate that didn't add afflictions. Wouldn't even have to be active or replace the current tart spell - just have it available for modders.

It might be possible to mod this out. There's a certain attribute you can give units when modding them that gives a chance for afflictions. It might be possible to remove it from the Tartarians if they use that mechanic when they get afflictions.

Someone who has tried modding it this way might be able to tell if it is actually possible or not. It would have to replace the current gate in any case.

It's one way to get around the problem of having the chalice of gift of health making Tartarian summoning much better.

[kianduatha]

Originally Posted by Redeyes

It might be possible to mod this out. There's a certain attribute you can give units when modding them that gives a chance for afflictions. It might be possible to remove it from the Tartarians if they use that mechanic when they get afflictions.

Someone who has tried modding it this way might be able to tell if it is actually possible or not. It would have to replace the current gate in any case.

It's one way to get around the problem of having the chalice of gift of health making Tartarian summoning much better.

Doesn't work, but it was a nice thought!


Edit: Of course, we *could* just #clearspec and then give them all the fun stuff back as that's the only crazy thing about 'em. Heck, we could make it 50% affliction (which would result in random afflictions, not usually feeble mind) if we wanted to keep flavor!

Edit again: Or not! That's some powerful Juju the devs put on that spell. Dang. Still feebleminded etc.

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by kianduatha

Edit again: Or not! That's some powerful Juju the devs put on that spell. Dang. Still feebleminded etc.

Lol. I was about post saying that had been my experience as well. The best I could come up with was to steal Hinnom's Lords of Civilization spell (dropping the monstrum from the rotation since only six slots were available) and have them change shape. Main drawback is it limits tart summoning to 6 per turn - ok for my usual size games and worked fine in Momentum3 but obviously wouldn't for CBM. Oh, and I guess some people might be bothered by taking Hinnom's spell, but that I had no problem with.