The Face of the Enemy (Destroy this Ship!)

[dogscoff]

A few things spring to mind...

1> Run away and hide=-)

2> A ship with a few massive shield depleters teamed up with half a dozen (ie more than the enemy multiplex) fast, cheap boarding party ships might be able to trigger the self destruct. Of course with 5 crew quarters on the target ship you'll need several boarding parties, but a frigate or corvette might do the trick. Use the simulator to get the right design.

3> mines + intel - use targetted intel to trash the minesweepers and repair ships. You can then use cloakd ships to plant mines in the enemy's path.Remember mines won't even notice all those shields, they'll just get skip straight to that nasty old stealth armour=-)

4> Of course all this is useless if you don't eliminate the resource/ production base which is churning out these monsters...

5> Don't use any advice givn out on this forum, because your enemy is probably reading it too=-)

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"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so, Brain, but balancing a family and a career ... oooh, it's all too much for me. "

[This message has been edited by dogscoff (edited 05 June 2001).]

[Nitram Draw]

PPB's have a short range. Try to build some ships with Wave Motion Guns as stay at max range. Another possibility is Null Space weapons, skips shields and armor.
I'm not real familiar with the crystal weapons but IIRC crystal armor adds to shields so load up on that armor to keep you defenses strong. Fighters could also help espescially heavily shielded fighters with 1-2 weapons. 5 PD's per ship is not that much if you can field 1000's of fighters that require more than 1 hit to destroy.
Good luck man, sounds like you are in for a long fight!

[God Emperor]

What do people think about the utility of Null Space Projectors? (given their reload rate of 3)....

[Nitram Draw]

If you have a speed advantage and can get the first shot in, I think there is nothing better than Null Space weapons. You take out components with every hit.
The reload rate is the only drawback. In tactical it can be overcome but I don't know how well you can use them is strategic.

[Mordante]

1) Nullspace cannons; in my experience they are very solid weapons in the mid game where a heavy mount can actually do serious damage against a lean cruiser design. 3 turn reloads are not a problem when you cripple with the first volley. Also, have you seen the damage resistance of a massive nullspace mount? - 250ish - ironically means that a massive nullspace mount is amongst the best way to soak nullspace or shield-skipping damage.

Negatives; if your ships are slower then you could be screwed by the opponent using max-range strategy and longer weapons. Or perhaps flooding the field with small disposable vessels. Economically, the radiactive costs of mass null-space building is vast - can be a big problem. A nullspace equipped base ship is amongst the most expensive vessel in the game outside of steller manipulation - takes a long time to build and a lot to maintain.

2) mines and selective intelligence hits vs minesweepers; nice combo - any hints as to the best way of knocking down 100,000 pts of counter-intel? (I have 200,000 pts of intel available)

3) Wave cannons - I am dubious about these, the 3 turn reload and massive cost seem a disinincentive - for the space and cost you could mount multiple anti-protons or shard cannons and fire every turn. I suspect that in a big fleet battle the strategic AI will not be able to dance reloading ships out of enemy weapon range so the reload cycle will kill.

4) Suicide borders .... now that i like *grins* appeals to the spirit of heroism of my empire. Couple of shield depleters per border maybe and pack the rest out with troops ... interesting results.

5) Economic war, I have more or less concluded that the only way to fight no-maintenance is to go for a very high direct attrition combat; looking for as many damaging engagements as possible to cause maximum casualties (hopefully his) Hence my quest for a "Tyrant"-killer design.

Thanks for ideas so far, please keep them rolling in.

I will probably write-up the results of this clash of arms as a narrative/combat guide document.

Regards

[dogscoff]

One thing we haven't considered is the defence modifier - does the ECM III stack with the stealth armour? If so how does that compare to combat sensors + racial bonus? Since he can't develop the talisman and there are only 5 PDCs per ship, should he be looking at overwhelming the enemy with seekers instead?

I think using fighters is a must, because the PPBs will target them in strategic and draw fire away from the rest of your fleet.

Do you anticipate any support ships in the enemy fleets or will it be just this one design?

[Mordante]

1) defence modifiers are a null issue with baseships really - yes the stealth armour stacks with ecm (as would scattering too) for a +75% bonus but compare that with the +65% attack bonues and the inbuild -40% defense for base ships and hits are assured (even without considering my empires +20% attack bonus)

2) fighters are interesting but need to attack with vast numbers to penetrate those shields in a timeframe to effect the outcome of the cap ship engagement.

3) refits to pds-massed designs are likely should i use missiles and fighters in the first combats. It is likely that the enemy power has some specialised defense assets.

4) i have consider system-destruction weapons as a Last ditch fleet interdiction weapon. i.e. black hole generators trigger when an overwhelming incoming fleet is spotted. This use is entirely hypothetical though - I have no idea how the dynamics of triggering/resolution would work in simultaneous play....

thanks

[Nitram Draw]

You could also try to fight in nebulas, shield aren't as effective.
Fighting a war of attrition against a maintenance free opponent isn't a good idea IMO. You will lose units also and still pay to maintain your remaining ships.
A better goal would be to cripple his shipbuilding capacity, either by targeting planets with yards or big resource producing/storage planets. Once he has built them he's done. Keep him from building as fast as you and the attrition strategy makes more sense.
The benefit of the Wave Motion Gun is range and a +30 to hit modifier on the weapon. This makes those long range hits more likely, although I agree sometimes I'd rather fire 4-5 beams every turn. WMG's are a good alternative to going toe to toe.

[dogscoff]

QUOTE:
2) mines and selective intelligence hits vs minesweepers; nice combo - any hints as to the best way of knocking down 100,000 pts of counter-intel? (I have 200,000 pts of intel available)
/QUOTE

Now the way I understand counter-intel is that no matter how many points are invsted in a counter-intel project, it can only counter a certain amount of enemy projects, 1 for level I counter intel, 2 for II and so on.

Therefore, (correct me someone if I'm wrong) if the enemy has invested 90,000 points in a counter-intel I, you can effectively cancel out that entire project by throwing a single 5000 point cargo bomb at them. A 150,000 point CI II can be wasted with any two cheap ops.

This means you can wear down your opponent's counter intel much faster than he can build it up. Set a dozen or so cargo/ ship bombs to complete in the same turn, and there will a very good chance at least one of them will get through. If it does, you know that next turn your opponent will have _no_ effective counter intel projects left. He will have to start some new ones from scratch. OK, if he's investing more in counter intel than you are in sabotage AND he starts enough projects then you won't be able to touch him, but if you can hit him with enough projects and / or persuade other empires to spend intel points on him you will sabotage him into the ground=-)

Oh, it's worth mentioning - I think the defender in intel conflicts gets some kind of bonus modifier, so counter intel points are worth more than offensive ones.

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"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so, Brain, but balancing a family and a career ... oooh, it's all too much for me. "

[dogscoff]

QUOTE:
2) fighters are interesting but need to attack with vast numbers to penetrate those shields in a timeframe to effect the outcome of the cap ship engagement.
/QUOTE

The fighters don't need to damage the cap ships, just draw their fire. PPBs _can_ target fighters, so depending on your opponents' fleet strategy settings, you could force all those big scary weapons to be wasted on cannon fodder fighters, allowing your cap ships to get in closer and do damage. Just a thought.

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"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so, Brain, but balancing a family and a career ... oooh, it's all too much for me. "