A pirates life for me... [Archive] - Page 2

Suicide Junkie

April 6th, 2001, 02:26 AM

It appears that you guys are not familiar with the guts of this mod (nobody expects you to inspect every line http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif), so:

The Current Guts of the Pirates MOD
Relating to most of your questions.

VJ's Qs:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Maybe a better solution is to only load minimal pop onto each colony ship and to have re-usable pop transports equipped with SDDs?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That clearly assumes that the population is more important than the colony, but in fact, for a pirate, the opposite is true. They desperately need colony components, but will often space aliens rather than hold them for a few years until a suitable colony is captured.

The pirates cannot research colony ship hulls OR colony components, the same way that most races cannot research Organic Armor.
This means that the pirates can only colonize a world if they capture a colony ship with the colony component intact, since they cannot repair it.
The pirates are not concerned with the population on board, but rather the colony itself. All the pirates want is a military outpost with a resupply depot, space yard & slave yards as bonus. They cannot build colony ships on their own.

As for a benefit to the normal races, Self-destructing prevents the pirate race from expanding at all

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I would vote for SDD's on colony ships if nothing else was changed.
I would vote for no SDD's if Pirates were given a huge negative to happiness, you can have all the colonies you want but if they are rioting you get no benefit from them<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The problem here is with the SE4 engine. Pirate races should be designed with happiness, reproduction & environment resist (as well as other blanet-based attributes) set to thier minimum levels
Happiness at -50% seems to mean that the race is always Indifferent.
Unless that has changed in a recent patch, -ve happiness won't hurt any more than it already does.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>2 as for capital ships, I like the idea of them building up to BC's only, but also include Lt. Carriers. Other then that they have to capture or steal the larger ones<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Pirates should be designed with -50% ship construction rate.
This means that LCs take a year to build, and BC's or bigger are long obsolete by the time you finish building the prototype http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
As a Pirate, I would never build anything larger than LC, since it would take longer to build ONE than to capture and retrofit FIVE.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>4. Pirates should have some form of research capabilities. In old days wasn't necessary, but with Space Pirates this would be a must.
They would either steal scientists to keep up to improve their "evil ways" or steal it. Maybe restrictions but definitly should have some type of this capability.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Pirates start out with a planet full of research facils, but with -50% to research, they get the same staring research as any other race. The research quickly falls behind as normals build research colonies, and the pirates sit waiting for captures.
After turn 40 or so, a pirate only researches stuff they can't capture, like armor.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Like the idea of ftrs being able to capture this would be interesting.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I gave the pirates a Boarding Pod to put on fighters, the game engine may or may not allow the capture order to go through, I haven't gotten to the point where I can test it yet. Heres hoping http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Here's my questions - you destroy the colony component (and therefore the SDD) and capture an AI colonizer. Can you then REPAIR it(which would pretty much defeat the purpose of the SDD)? AND, could you take the damaged hull back and retrofit it into a pirate colony ship?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If we make a new component, PIrate Rock Colony, then you would not be able to repair the colony component you blew away.
You cannot retrofit between hull sizes, so you can't retro from colony to Pirate colony.

The idea behind not allowing pirates to build colony ships was based on a story-book idea of pirates. Ie. pirates wouldn't be able to put together an expedition to start a city in north america, but if they happened to board a ship from England, or somewheres, that was intended to start a city in the new world, then they might just go ahead and try it.

As it is, an AI colony ship has no shields or SDD, so it can be captured extremely easily. Adding the SDD would mean that a good fraction of ships would be damaged beyond usefulness before they were captured, slowing the pirates planet colonization from its currently reduced rate to a trickle.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>If the standard colony component was made to fit the not a pirate trait and the special colony component was made exclusively available to the is a pirate trait it should work.
I think you can repair tech that is ordinarily not available to you but I'm not 100% sure on that. You should be able to use it if you captured it undamaged though.
This may be a good way of limiting the pirates ability to overcolonize<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, that is how it works now, except there is no special colony component for pirates. As it is, the pirates must capture alien colony ships intact to start a colony, and they can still expand too fast, since the AI dosen't defend its colony ships well. The SDD will reduce pirate expansion by I'm guessing 70% or so. Currently it is easy to get a new colony every year or two, not including ground-war troop captures.
I feel that the pirates starting a new colony of thier own choice should be a momentus occasion.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 06 April 2001).]

Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz

April 6th, 2001, 02:51 AM

SJ, my standard colony ship design (with one extra storage compartment for extra pop) costs 6150 minerals, 1100 organics and 1400 radiactives. The SDD adds 500 minerals and 50 radioactives to this cost (less the cost of whichever component I'd sacrifice to make room). Given that colony ships are single use designs and that in any game I'd hope to construct 100+ of them, this represents a significant overhead to my empire. As a human player I could be sure to not incur this extra expense unless there were pirates in the area and they were non-trivial rivals. To oblige the AI to blindly add SDDs in all cases would put the AI at a non-trivial disadvantage to human players.

As an alternative, adding SDD functionality to colony components just doesn't feel right from a role playing perspective.

On balance I'm pretty convinced that the AI shouldn't be adjusted to add SDDs to colony ships. Handicap the pirates (who'll only ever be played by humans) if necessary, not the AIs.

------------------
Resistence is futile.

Marty Ward

April 6th, 2001, 03:07 AM

Isn't there a setting that make a population happier and angrier, maybe it is in the anger file. Maybe that file could be used to keep the pirate population unhappier.
Also, if the pirates can't build standard resource, research and intel facilities is having a lot of colonies bad? Maybe no standard facilities should be allowed for the pirates, just the bare minimum of pirate specific ones, so even if you had 100 colonies it would only equal 10 normal ones.

[This message has been edited by Marty Ward (edited 06 April 2001).]

Suicide Junkie

April 6th, 2001, 04:29 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Isn't there a setting that make a population happier and angrier<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Problem is, that only makes the pop move towards/away from indifferent.
Giving a -100% happiness means that the colony will never go above indifferent unless you have 1000 troops and 15 ships in orbit. Happiness won't drive the pop to anger/riot.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>On balance I'm pretty convinced that the AI shouldn't be adjusted to add SDDs to colony ships. Handicap the pirates (who'll only ever be played by humans) if necessary, not the AIs<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If the restrictions worked, I'd design a free, zero Kt SDD for colony ships only, but until then, we have to decide how to stop pirates from getting too many colonies.
Adding the SDD dosen't increase the cost of the colony ship very much, and it would be advantageous for an AI playing against a Human Pirate to stem the growth of the pirate in this way.
The only time that the AI would be at a disadvantage in this respect, would be if the human was playing a normal race, and it would still help prevent the human from getting colonists who breathe some other atmosphere.

We could always just disable all colony ship captures by the pirates, and forece them to use troops...

Bumping the polls to the top
---------------------------------
What do the rest of you guys think about Pirates vs AI colony ships?
A) Leave as is
B) AI adds SDD
C) Colony module is an SDD

----------------------------------
Who would like to see pirates with no research ability, other than from captured ships & planets?

A) Leave it alone
B) Severly restrict research (just like resources)
C) No research for Pirates!
D) No research, and get rid of the resource gathering slave labour camps too!
E) None of the above

The Finn

April 6th, 2001, 07:44 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz:
As an alternative, adding SDD functionality to colony components just doesn't feel right from a role playing perspective.

On balance I'm pretty convinced that the AI shouldn't be adjusted to add SDDs to colony ships. Handicap the pirates (who'll only ever be played by humans) if necessary, not the AIs.

[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not handicapping the AI (and not forcing people to mod all the colony ship design files to include SDDs) was my reasoning for changing the colony component to include a built in SDD.

I agree it doesn't have a nice roleplay feel to it but I'd give up that small aspect for the simplicity of it.

The Finn

April 6th, 2001, 07:56 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:

Here's my questions - you destroy the colony component (and therefore the SDD) and capture an AI colonizer. Can you then REPAIR it(which would pretty much defeat the purpose of the SDD)? AND, could you take the damaged hull back and retrofit it into a pirate colony ship?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If we make a new component, PIrate Rock Colony, then you would not be able to repair the colony component you blew away.
You cannot retrofit between hull sizes, so you can't retro from colony to Pirate colony.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>If the standard colony component was made to fit the not a pirate trait and the special colony component was made exclusively available to the is a pirate trait it should work.
I think you can repair tech that is ordinarily not available to you but I'm not 100% sure on that. You should be able to use it if you captured it undamaged though.
This may be a good way of limiting the pirates ability to overcolonize<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, that is how it works now, except there is no special colony component for pirates. As it is, the pirates must capture alien colony ships intact to start a colony, and they can still expand too fast, since the AI dosen't defend its colony ships well. The SDD will reduce pirate expansion by I'm guessing 70% or so. Currently it is easy to get a new colony every year or two, not including ground-war troop captures.
I feel that the pirates starting a new colony of thier own choice should be a momentus occasion.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 06 April 2001).][/B]

Hmmm.. actually, another question - can you put colony components on ships other than colony ships? I've never tried it but I can't see why you couldn't from the vehicle size file. If so, the idea of making the Pirate Colony Hull more expensive would be sort of useless - you could just slap the colonizer on a Frigate or something.

Sorry, not quite following.. Could the pirates capture what's left of a colony ship with the colony component destroyed and then repait it? Also, could they take the hull home and add their own colony component to it?

If they can repair the 'not a pirate' colony comp. then my idea of making them refit the cheaper colony ship hulls with their own colony component won't work. If they can't repair it, but CAN add their own colony component to the hull then it would work to cut down on their expansion.

<grumbles> I really need to get the game soon so I can fool with this myself.. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[This message has been edited by The Finn (edited 06 April 2001).]

mac5732

April 6th, 2001, 03:58 PM

Your Poll

1 B or C
2 B

"never say never" Mac

Nitram Draw

April 6th, 2001, 10:43 PM

You can make Pirate colonies naturally get angry by giving the ability Planet - Population Anger Change to each Pirate specific facility that you think should only be built in limited quantities, but not the slave mine I think Pirates would like them! This will cause anger to increase every turn unless you counter it with troops, ships etc. If the modifier stacks or you give some facilities Planet and some System abilities, the more you build the angrier your colonies will become.

Baron Munchausen

April 7th, 2001, 12:39 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nitram Draw:
You can make Pirate colonies naturally get angry by giving the ability Planet - Population Anger Change to each Pirate specific facility that you think should only be built in limited quantities, but not the slave mine I think Pirates would like them! This will cause anger to increase every turn unless you counter it with troops, ships etc. If the modifier stacks or you give some facilities Planet and some System abilities, the more you build the angrier your colonies will become.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, this will not work. I tried it with a "Security Police Facility" using the reduce bad intelligence chance ability. It seemed a good way to let non-religious races use this facility power. My thinking was that having the Goon Squad running around a system looking for spies would make people a bit uneasy and there should be a negative happiness effect. BUT... the game checks all happiness modifying facilities in a system and uses the best (positive) value. So, the negatice value is ignored if there is a facility with a positive value. In other words, only one modifer is applied so you'd only see the effect if there was no facility with apositive value in the system.

I suggest making a special happiness type for Pirates. Call it 'Pirate' happiness, I guess? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif You can then modify how they react to all sorts of individual events. Check the happiness.txt file and see all the options. You could increase the reaction to enemy ships nearby, reduce or eliminate the beneficial effect of your own ships nearby, etc. I think you could find a way to represent the reactions of the population realistically and you can achieve much finer balance this way than by a facility that only pushes happiness one way all the time.

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 06 April 2001).]

Nitram Draw

April 7th, 2001, 01:38 AM

Poll reply
1. C less work in modding AI files
2. B agree most advances should come from capture, I don't recall to many Pirate PhD's

Marty Ward

April 7th, 2001, 02:36 AM

How does the Anarchy Group intel project work? Could you use whatever ability, at a lower level, it uses to reduce a planets happiness or is this not a facility ability?

capnq

April 7th, 2001, 03:08 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Hmmm.. actually, another question - can you put colony components on ships other than colony ships? I've never tried it but I can't see why you couldn't from the vehicle size file. If so, the idea of making the Pirate Colony Hull more expensive would be sort of useless - you could just slap the colonizer on a Frigate or something.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, you can. I've built heavily armored ships to get a colony started on the far side of a damaging warp.

------------------
Cap'n Q

The Finn

April 7th, 2001, 05:06 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by capnq:

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, you can. I've built heavily armored ships to get a colony started on the far side of a damaging warp.

Thanks Cap.. well, that takes care of my idea of making pirate colony hulls expensive and slow to build - they'll just mount em on other hulls.

Suicide Junkie

April 7th, 2001, 05:54 PM

Poll results so far:
---------------------------------
What do the rest of you guys think about Pirates vs AI colony ships?
0 x A) Leave as is
0.5 x B) AI adds SDD
1.5 x C) Colony module is an SDD

----------------------------------
Who would like to see pirates with no research ability, other than from captured ships & planets?

0 x A) Leave it alone
2 x B) Severly restrict research (just like resources)
0 x C) No research for Pirates!
0 x D) No research, and get rid of the resource gathering slave labour camps too!
0 x E) None of the above
---------------------

My comments: Adding SDD ability to the colony component will make it completely impossible for pirates to capture colony ships. If they destroy the colony component, they can get the ship, but its useless to them now.
Pirates would then have to trade for a colony ship, or use troops on a planet.

Restricted research. How much restriction should be used? The planet crunch restricts mid to late game research already. Should the pirate research facility put out say 50% research? Then, the pirates get the same research as other empires with the same intelligence trait, but can't expand their research much. (about 7000 pts/turn for the entire game)
Then the pirates could spend some racial points to combat that inherent -50% to research, or not bother and take a -75% hit by pulling all their points out of intelligence.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 07 April 2001).]

Marty Ward

April 7th, 2001, 06:53 PM

SJ,
What do you think about restricting Pirate facilities to the point that the number of colonies did not matter. For example, remove the basic shipyard, research, intel, and any other facility that gives the Pirates a benefit you don't want them to have from the pirate trait, like you did with the resource facilities. Then substitute low production value buildings to give them minimal production.
Then colonies become only useful to Pirates for a limited amount of things, resupply, repair etc and it wouldn't matter how many they got.

Suicide Junkie

April 7th, 2001, 08:46 PM

It would be best if we could reduce the number of racial traits that must be set to a specific value in order to get a pirate race. As for intel, that's already been done. The research is definitely going to change, but how much has yet to be decided.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>...and it wouldn't matter how many they got.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The problem is always that doubling the number of colonies doubles their output of whatever item, and you would just be squeezing the starting conditions to unacceptable levels. The pirates have to be able to build their first few ships reasonably quickly, but we don't want them to expand their construction ablilties.

I need a good way to allow the pirates to start with enough basic production facilities, but prevent them from quickly building more on their colonies.

-> One option might be to give the pirates facilities that cost 50k resources, so they take 2.5 years to build each. If we can get the pirates to start with those facilities on their homeworld, it might be workable. Comments?

Marty Ward

April 7th, 2001, 09:09 PM

Good idea about making the cost high. I think by balancing what you want them to build easy and hard it can be done.
If you removed the basic shipyard, resource extractors, research, and intel from the pirates and created high cost/lower valued alternatives then their expansion would be naturally slow and of reduced value.
Pirate research facilities should generate ~250 points. Most of their research gains should come from capture so the amount of research they really need is not nearly as great as a standard empire. If pirates could get to ~20,000 research later in the game that would seem to be enough.
With low maintenance and scraping facilities their resource needs are low. They should get a large percentage of resouces from scrapping captured ships.
Intel has been worked on.
this leaves shipyards. Creating a pirate shipyard that builds at say 1000 each would be a reasonable start. No addition shipyard facilities should be availble. Shipboard one definately.
I can't think of any other area that needs to be controlled. They should be able to research all the other areas but it will be a slow process. With the built in penalties in the pirate culture there will be many more reasons to capture ships for scrap value as opposed to building an empire of colonies, which is what Pirating was all about http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

mac5732

April 8th, 2001, 07:30 PM

SJ, how about that after the intial builds, they would only be allowed to build additional facilities only on the exact type of planets with the exact type of atmosphere that they started game with??
Also I meant to ask you before, Have you decided on a name for your Pirate Race yet?

Just some ideas Mac

Suicide Junkie

April 8th, 2001, 08:07 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>SJ, how about that after the intial builds, they would only be allowed to build additional facilities only on the exact type of planets with the exact type of atmosphere that they started game with??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I don't see how that would be done. The only way I know it to set the only colonize own type/atm planets, and that ruins everything.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Also I meant to ask you before, Have you decided on a name for your Pirate Race yet?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My mod is not a pirate race, but a datafile change to allows humans to make their own Pirate races. You choose your own attributes and your own race name, my mod just prevents you from doing too many unpiratey things http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
Personally, I don't care too much about the name of my race, since it dosen't come up much in the game. I usually just take "Pirate Alliance" or try to come up with something mean-sounding.

chewy027

April 8th, 2001, 08:18 PM

SJ have you talked to MM about issueing your Mod into an upcoming patch? Or at least all these great pirate ideas into an expansion. A feature this good should be put in the game officially!!

BTY have you voted for the civil war feature yet in the vote thread? Any ideas or suggestions would be great. Please tell us what you think http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif And if your not up to date on the idea check out the overview in the intergalactic civil war thread http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Thanks for your time.

Suicide Junkie

April 8th, 2001, 09:12 PM

Here is the Pirates&Nomads mod, with some minor bugfixes, and the following:

-3 levels of Massive planetary shielding, 10K, 50K, and 75K phased. These now require shield technology too, at lev 3.
-Planetary Space yards for pirates are limited to 1000 each resource. (1/2 of SY I)
-Research facilities for pirates now produce 200 points (40% normal)
-Pirates cannot build full size spaceyards on ships, just their small yard.

So, we now have a built-in pirate traits of:
- Cunning (Intel) +100%
- Intelligence (research) -60%
- Construction aptitude -50%
- All 3 resource production -40%, with no ability to specialize in a specific resource during the game.

Pirate Race traits you still have to add yourself:
- Reproduction -9%
- Env. Resist. -50%
- Political Savvy -50%
- Physical Strength (ground combat) -50%
Anything other than these four, you can set to whatever SE4 will accept http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Suicide Junkie

April 9th, 2001, 07:22 AM

I'm just wondering how many people have downloaded my mod, and what you all think about a new, major change to shield components.

I'm currently testing some new shield effects.
- Shield regenerators provide bonus shielding (eg. regen 5pts gives 5 pts more total shields, too)
- Phased shields & standard shields are mixed. (normal are on odd tech levels, phased on even) The phased are slightly stronger than normal shields, but a "half" tech level higher.
This will stretch out the shield strength increase, making it comparable to the armor tech thread.

------Simulated War Story------
My prototype LCs have an interesting property with this change.
With a shield 4, and 3x S.regen 3s, they get 300+45 shields, and +45 per turn.
In a battle against two organic tech LCs, They got a string of lucky hits in, and puched through my armor, destroying my shield generator. I trashed one of the LCs that turn, since its shields were down, while the other chased me.
The 45 shields from the regenerators were restored every turn, and the enemy had weapons that did 50 damage. his normal accuracy is so bad, that he only could get one hit a turn, out of four shots, and only managed to destroy one engine in three hits before I took him down.

Comments are welcome.

Nitram Draw

April 10th, 2001, 01:22 AM

Have downloaded it but won't be able to try it for about a week. I'll give you feed back then.

mac5732

April 13th, 2001, 08:50 PM

SJ, just wanted to congrats on your promotion, also how is the mod coming? Anything new or new additions?

just some ideas, mac

Suicide Junkie

April 14th, 2001, 01:42 AM

Just the massive planetary shielding thing.
The phased planetary shields will be all screwed up for anybody with the newest Version.

I'm in the middle of the final exam weeks, so I don't have a lot of free time.

PsychoTechFreak

April 14th, 2001, 11:01 AM

I don't know if this has been mentioned before:

The red-colored nebulae systems seem to have sight obscuration level 5. I have checked that with every nebulae system in a medium sized galaxy, 2 races (human control), high tech, cloaking device level 3 and the best sensors available.

If you need to hide pirate bases, I would recommend to do it in red nebulaes.

[This message has been edited by PsychoTechFreak (edited 14 April 2001).]

Suicide Junkie

April 14th, 2001, 07:25 PM

I tried changing the description of the level 5 nebulas to be "blocks all sensors", so I'd know which were which.

Are you sure it is all red and no other colors that are level 5s?

PsychoTechFreak

April 14th, 2001, 08:08 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
I tried changing the description of the level 5 nebulas to be "blocks all sensors", so I'd know which were which.

Are you sure it is all red and no other colors that are level 5s?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, there are other nebulaes (I have seen a green one which made everything invisible for level 4 scanners). But I'm pretty sure with the red ones (10 nebulaes tested yet).

PsychoTechFreak

April 14th, 2001, 08:53 PM

I have done another test:

In QuadrantTypes.txt I have set:

Ancient(just level 5 nebulae modification):

Type 8 Name := Storm 5
Type 8 Chance := 100

every other chance to zero.

Created a large galaxy, every one was RED.

SJ, where have you changed this one?:

I tried changing the description of the level 5 nebulas to be "blocks [b]all sensors"

PsychoTechFreak

April 14th, 2001, 09:05 PM

Here are the other colors:

Level 1: violett
Level 2: cyan
Level 3: orange/brown
Level 4: green
Level 5: red

I don't understand why I haven't seen anything in the level 4 nebulae with my high-level sensors (see my Last but one post), it seems that level 4 scanning just can see level 3 and lower obscurations. So you are safe in green and red nebulae systems.

[This message has been edited by PsychoTechFreak (edited 14 April 2001).]

Suicide Junkie

April 15th, 2001, 01:40 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>SJ, where have you changed this one?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
In my own files.

Name := Storm 5
Description := A nebulae system.
System Physical Type := Nebulae
Background Bitmap := Storm5.bmp
Empires Can Start In := FALSE
Mask Background Objs := TRUE
Non-Tiled Center Pic := FALSE
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Sector - Sight Obscuration
Ability 1 Descr := This storm is opaque to all scanners.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 5
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
WP Stellar Abil Type := Normal Warp Point
Number of System Objs := 0

When I have the time, I'll copy those storm entries so the storms have random colors.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 15 April 2001).]

Suicide Junkie

April 15th, 2001, 01:49 AM

Re: Pirates mod.

I've added miniaturized shields & regenerators.

Basically they're about quarter size components, and slightly less efficient than the full size equipment.

At 10kt shields (25-75 pts), and 5kt Regenerators (2-4 pts/turn), these things are supposed to make it easier to add some basic shielding to ES and FG class ships. They are also good on satellites, when you only have a small bit of room remaining to cram stuff in.

Suicide Junkie

April 19th, 2001, 01:29 AM

Almost done exams, just Quantum Physics left.

I will get a new Version of Pirates & Nomads out on the weekend, and it will include the components.txt changes from the latest patch(es).

Any constructive critisisms or suggestions are always welcome.

Suicide Junkie

April 20th, 2001, 04:20 AM

There you go!

Installation:
1) Create a modfolder within your SE4 folder.
2) unzip "Pirates&NomadsV1.3.zip" into the modfolder
3) unzip "Nomad Race EMPs.zip" into your "SE4\Empires" folder
4) Change your "path.txt" to point to your modfolder
5) When creating a new game, add existing empire, and only select empires saved under this mod.
5b) Edit empires to be sure they are under computer control & using their own minister style.
5c) When creating your own race, choose one of "Regular", "Pirate" or "Nomadic".
If you choose "Pirate", also select characteristics of -9% reproduction, -50% environment resist, -50% trade, and -50% physical strength (ground combat).
These characteristics will ensure you have a truly "piratey" adventure http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

To get more races to play with:
1) start a new game with many randomly generated empires (no neutrals)
2) set all players to human control, and save them to disk.
3) start a new game, use "add existing empires" to load the races you saved.
4) edit each saved race, and add the Advanced Trait "Regular"
5) Save the race again.
6) Post all your Nomads-enabled races to this message board!

Changes:
- Miniaturized shields & regen for ES, FG size ships.
- Massive Planetary shields LVL 1-3. MPSG 3 is 75K standard shields, since somebody mentioned that in the new Versions, the phased shields were going to the facility not the planet http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif.
Still, its effective against most weapons.
-some minor changes to facilities, since I think AI's were not using the best facilities. (I think they might have chosen the pirate research center over the standard one)
Normals no longer have access to pirate/nomad research or shipyards (the 50% effective Versions)

I think I'm still short on Pirate and Nomad techs, though.

Next Version:
-More shield tech levels, which will provide "Large Shield Generators" for bases, and eventually, a (slightly weaker than ruin tech) form of the MPSG!
-An "Armor" facility! Effective even against phased weapons & shield penetrators!
Bury your cities under a layer of Fluidic Armor (flows like water to plug holes in the armor!).

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 20 April 2001).]

Atrocities

April 20th, 2001, 04:21 AM

This is one huge thread

------------------
"We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats! They invade our space and we fall back -- they assimilate entire worlds and we fall back! Not again! The line must be drawn here -- this far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" -- Patric Stewart as Captain Picard
UCP/TCO Ship Yards (http://www.angelfire.com/zine/cnchome/Shipsets.html)

Marty Ward

April 20th, 2001, 04:31 AM

Yes, it should be retired at 300 Posts and a new one born, in honor of patch 5 http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif
And SJ, you should post #300, after all its your fault its so long http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[This message has been edited by Marty Ward (edited 20 April 2001).]

Suicide Junkie

April 20th, 2001, 07:40 AM

Why in the world would you want to start a new thread?
When its one big thread, you can flip back through the pages to see history!

Below: people's thoughts in electronic form since <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>01 March 2001 17:31<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Suicide Junkie

April 20th, 2001, 03:47 PM

You're not seriously saying that you have to load all 300 Posts to read this thread, are you?

One page of info is gonna load at the same speed as one page with links to 19 others.

If you can't seem to find stuff, perhaps someone should post a combination summary/index.

Suicide Junkie

April 20th, 2001, 03:54 PM

Woohoo 300 Posts!

Suicide Junkie

April 20th, 2001, 09:21 PM

Tested & working
-Heavy shield Generators
weighing in at 200kT, these monsters put out up to 2500 phased shield points. Designed for Capital ships and bases.

-Large Planetary Shields
Sufficient research into shields allwos you to duplicate the wonders of the ancient civilizations with your own (but not quite as strong) Planetary Shield Generators.

-Hardened Bulkheads
Weaving armor into the walls and deck plating allows your ship to resist and contain internal damage better. The protection factor is directly proportional to your budget http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Our new "H.B." technology allows you to build a most excellent "Flagship" design. With as much extra internal strength as you desire, you can take an incredible beating before system failures become critical enough to endanger the Elite crew of your personal ship. This stuff even works against null-space weapons!
If you like this, try our next-generation HB, which resists shield disruptors and tachyon cannons!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 20 April 2001).]

Nitram Draw

April 20th, 2001, 10:29 PM

I don't know if there is another reason but of all the threads on this board, this one takes the longest to load and to post a reply to. I just assumed it was due to the length of the thread.

[This message has been edited by Nitram Draw (edited 20 April 2001).]

Suicide Junkie

April 20th, 2001, 11:50 PM

Well, most of the threads around here are less than 15 Posts, and so they don't even fill up one full page. They would naturally load faster.

I would think that even a fresh thread would fill up and get just as slow as this in no time.

Nitram Draw

April 21st, 2001, 01:17 AM

Because it takes me forever to find things buried back in the thread and my slow box doesn't help much either.

Suicide Junkie

April 21st, 2001, 04:16 PM

A Summary of Changes in P&N V1.3
(vs. official SE4)

CompEnhancement
-Mod: Large/Heavy/Massive platform mounts add +1/+2/+3 range.
-New: Sattelite Siege Mount. 2x size, 1.5x damage, 5x cost, range +5, large sats only.

Components
-Mod: Rock/Ice/Gas colony modules require the "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Space Yard I/II/III require the "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Armor I/II/III provides 30/40/50 hitpoints.
-Mod: Emissive Armor I/II/III provides 100/110/120 hitpoints.
-Mod: Shields. Big changes.
"normal" shield generators provide the amount of hitpoints that "phased" shields used to. Normal shields are now only on odd tech levels, 1/3/5/7/9. Phased shields are available on even tech levels, and provide slightly more hitpoints than the previous normal (at techs 2/4/6/8/10). Normal and phased Shield generators I/II/III/IV/V provide 1/2/3/4/5 points of shield regeneration.
-Mod: Shield Regenerators. Available on even tech levels. Provide bonus shield points equivalent to one turn of regeneration.
eg. SRI gives 5 pts regen, now gives 5pts extra shields too.
-Mod: Supply storage reduced in size to 5kT, since engines store the same amount of supplies at 10kT.
-Mod: Small emissive armor I: provides 14 hitpoints.
-Add: Small emissive armor II: provides 20 hitpoints at armor tech lev 6
-Mod: Small shield generators: regenerate 10% of their max strength per turn.
(Unit shield regen is not currently supported by SE4, but when it is, this will start working)
-Mod: Point defence cannons have approx. 50% range, but slightly higher damage.
-Add: Point defence lasers equivalent to PDC, but have full range (upto 8) and approx. 50% damage.
-Mod: WaveMotionGun I/II/III has range boosted to 8/10/11
-Mod: Allegiance subverters require the "Normal" racial trait.
-Mod: Kamikaze warhead I/II/III do 60/120/180 damage.
-Add: Ablative Armor I/II/III/IV/V. 1kT, 8/10/12/13/14 hitpoints. Available for all vehicle types.
-Add: Machine Shop I/II. repairs one component per turn, 40/20 kT size.
-Add: Small space yard. Requires "Nomadic" or "Pirate" racial traits. Repairs one component/turn, builds with 300 resources/turn. 100kT size.
-Add: Tachyon Dampener. 30Kt, 100 hitpoints. Will absorb a fraction of weapon-destroying attacks.
-Add: Swashbucklers. Requires "Pirate" racial tech. 20kT, provides 12 boarding attack power. (note that one crew quarters provides 16 defence-destroy it or use two swashbuckler comps.)
-Add: Swashbuckler Pod. same as above, but 10kT, and available on fighters for "Pirate" or "Nomadic" racial techs.
-Add: Mineral Crystallizer, Hydroponics bay, radioactives collider. These are add-on facilities for the "Nomad" tech resource-generating ships and bases.
-Add: Supply storage I. 1kT, stores 100 supplies, available on fighters.
-Add: Quantum reactor. 20kT, available on fighters. Requires "Nomadic" racial tech.
-Add: Tachyon sensors I/II/III. 40kT, available on fighters. Requires "Nomadic" racial tech.
-Add: Small armor I/II/III. provides 4/5/6 hitpoints.
-Add: Solar Collectors I/II/III. provides 50/100/150 supplies per turn. 20kT. Available on fighters. Requires "Nomadic" racial tech.
-Add: Reduced solar sail. 12kT. provides 1 bonus movement. Available on fighters. Requires "Nomadic" racial tech. No other tech requirement.
-Add: Small solar sail I/II/III. 5kT, provides 1/2/3 bonus movement. Available on fighters. Requires "Nomadic" Racial tech.
-Add: Small Null-Space projector. 5kT, 4 damage at range 1, 4 reload, available on fighters. Requires "Nomadic" tech.
-Add: Space Yard. 200kT, repairs 5 per turn, builds with 2000 resources per turn. Requires "Nomadic" Racial Tech.
-Add: Reduced Shield Generator I/II/III. 10kT, provides 25/50/75 shield points, regenerates 2/4/6 points/turn. Provides 30/40/50 armor points. Requires shield tech level 3/6/9. Requires Armor tech 3/5/7.
-Add: Reduced Shield Regenerator I/II/III. 5kT, regenerates 2/3/4 points per turn. Requires shield tech level 5/7/10.
-Add: Heavy Shield Generator I/II/III. 200kT. generates 1500/2000/2500 shield points. Regenerates 50/75/100 points per turn. Requires shield tech level 11/12/13.
-Add: Hardened Bulkheads I/II/III. zerokT. Provides 25/30/35 hitpoints. Non-armor. Protects against (A)/(A)(S)/(A)(S)(W),
Where A=armor penetrators, S=shield destroyers, and W=weapon destroyers.

Facility
-Mod: (Mineral,organic,radioactive generators) I/II/III. Stores 1000/1250/1500 resources. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Monolith facility I/II/III. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Research Facility I/II/III. Requires "Normal" or"Nomad" racial tech.
-Mod: Intelligence Facil I/II/III. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Gestation Vats I/II/III. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Replicant Center I/II/III. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Space Yard Facility I/II/III. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Add: Massive planetary shield generator I/II/III. Requires ruin tech "MPSG". Requires shield tech lev 3/6/9. Provides 20K/50K/75K shield points. Very expensive.
-Mod: Temporal Space yard. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Solar Generator I/II/III. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Add: Pirate's Intelligence Center. Provides 1000 intel points. Requires "Pirate" racial tech.
-Add: Slave Labour Camp. Generates 100 each resource (per star). Requires "Pirate" Racial tech.
-Add: Research Center. Generates 200 research points. Requires "Pirate" racial tech.
-Add: Space Yard Facility. Repairs 5 comps per turn, builds with 1000 resources per turn. Requires "Pirate" or "Nomad" racial techs.
-Add: Large Planetary Shield Generator I/II/III. Provides 5K/20K/50K. Requires shield tech level 14/15/16.

IntelProjects
-Mod: All offensive intel projects require "Normal" racial trait. Pirates & nomads only use defensive. Exceptions: Resource & tech theft.

Racial Traits
-Add: "Normal" racial tech. Allows colony ships, planet-based resource extractors.
-Add: "Pirate" racial tech. Allows access to specialty pirate techs.
a race with low maintenance is highly reccommended if you choose this.
-Add: "Nomadic" racial tech. Allows access to Nomadic techs.

Settings
Max systems = 255
Minimum resource generation = 500
planet percent value loss after death = 30
resource aptitude minimum percent = 25
maximum units/ships per sector = 10,000
maximum units/ships per player = 10,000

TechArea
Armor maximum level = 11
Shields maximum level = 16
"Normal", "Pirate", "Nomadic" tech areas

VehicleSize
-Add: Resource Base. Generates resources each turn. Production can be boosted with plug-in components. 600kT. +60% chance of being hit. Requires "Nomadic" racial tech.
-Add: Resource Ship. Generates resources each turn. Production can be boosted with plug-in components. 300kT. Has a +50% chance of being hit. Requires "Nomadic" Racial tech.
-Add: Medium/Large/Heavy/Massive fighter. Size of 20/25/35/50 kT. Massive fighter requires 2 engines per move. Heavy/Massive have unlimited # of engines. Requires "Nomadic" racial tech.

Finally done! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 21 April 2001).]

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 22 April 2001).]

Suicide Junkie

April 22nd, 2001, 10:02 PM

BUG FIX!!!

The resource plugins & resource ships/bases for Nomads were only operating at 25% of what they should have been, due to me forgetting about the 25% maintenance factor. This has now been fixed.

Thanks go to Kalashnikov for the discovery.

Suicide Junkie

April 23rd, 2001, 09:44 PM

Installation:
1) Create a modfolder within your SE4 folder.
2) unzip "Pirates&NomadsV1.4.zip" into the modfolder
3) unzip "Nomad Race EMPs.zip" into your "SE4\Empires" folder
4) Change your "path.txt" to point to your modfolder
5) When creating a new game, add existing empire, and only select empires saved under this mod.
5b) Edit empires to be sure they are under computer control & using their own minister style.
5c) When creating your own race, choose one of "Regular", "Pirate" or "Nomadic".
If you choose "Pirate", also select characteristics of -9% reproduction, -50% environment resist, -50% trade, and -50% physical strength (ground combat).
These characteristics will ensure you have a truly "piratey" adventure

To get more races to play with:
1) start a new game with many randomly generated empires (no neutrals)
2) set all players to human control, and save them to disk.
3) start a new game, use "add existing empires" to load the races you saved.
4) edit each saved race, and add the Advanced Trait "Regular"
5) Save the race again.
6) Post all your Nomads-enabled races to this message board!

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 23 April 2001).]

Suicide Junkie

April 25th, 2001, 09:33 PM

Installation:
1) Create a modfolder within your SE4 folder.
2) unzip "Pirates&NomadsV1.5.zip" into the modfolder
2b) If you are starting a new game, and not resuming a game from P&N V1.4, replace "Components.txt" with "Pretty Components.txt"
If you want to resume savegames from V1.4, use the default "components.txt" provided, or replace it with "Compatible Components.txt"
3) unzip "Nomad Race EMPs.zip" into your "SE4\Empires" folder
4) Change your "path.txt" to point to your modfolder
5) When creating a new game, add existing empire, and only select empires saved under this mod.
5b) Edit empires to be sure they are under computer control & using their own minister style.
5c) When creating your own race, choose one of "Regular", "Pirate" or "Nomadic".
If you choose "Pirate", also select characteristics of -9% reproduction, -50% environment resist, -50% trade, and -50% physical strength (ground combat).
These characteristics will ensure you have a truly "piratey" adventure

To get more races to play with:
1) start a new game with many randomly generated empires (no neutrals)
2) set all players to human control, and save them to disk.
3) start a new game, use "add existing empires" to load the races you saved.
4) edit each saved race, and add the Advanced Trait "Regular"
5) Save the race again.
6) Post all your Nomads-enabled races to this message board!

Changes in this Version
-Two components files, one compatible with previous Versions of P&N, the other with neatly organized components.
-CSM's now described as "chaped-charge chemical warheads"
-Heavy Bombardment Missiles (same as CSM) have nuclear warheads, and cause quad damage to shields from the EMP. They are double size, and have quad strength seekers.
-Added "crossover" techs which require two racial tech areas. Every 2-trait combination is here http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.
-Added Pirate Hoard facil which stores enourmous amounts of resources.

Changes in this Patch
-Rebalanced the Hardened Mini-shield generators, so they more closely follow the shield & armor development.
-New Comp Enhancements. There are Cheap, Budget, Durable, Premium components. For non-weapons only, they affect hitpoints based on how much you want to spend for each part.
-Bugfix for the crossover techs.
-Replaced "Cheap" components with "normal"... the really low hitpoint stuff was getting hit Last, and that really screwed things up. The AIs will use normal internal components on their ships.
[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 25 April 2001).]

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 26 April 2001).]

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 26 April 2001).]

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 26 April 2001).]

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 03 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 03 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 13 May 2001).]

Suicide Junkie

June 8th, 2001, 01:24 AM

Installation:
1) Create a modfolder within your SE4 folder.
2) unzip "Pirates&NomadsV1.6.zip" into the modfolder
3) unzip "Nomad Race EMPs.zip" into your "SE4\Empires" folder
4) Change your "path.txt" to point to your new modfolder
5) When creating a new game, add existing empire, and only select empires saved under or provided with this mod.
5b) Edit empires to be sure they are under computer control & using their own minister style.
5c) When creating your own race, choose one of "Regular", "Pirate" or "Nomadic".
If you choose "Pirate", also select characteristics of -9% reproduction, -50% environment resist, -50% trade, and -50% physical strength (ground combat).
These characteristics will ensure you have a truly "piratey" adventure

To get more races to play with:
1) start a new game with many randomly generated empires (no neutrals)
2) set all players to human control, and save them to disk.
3) start a new game, use "add existing empires" to load the races you saved.
4) edit each saved race, and add the Advanced Trait "Regular"
5) Save the race again.
6) Post all your Nomads-enabled races to this message board!

Changes In This Version
-Savegames are not compatible with previous Versions of P&N
-Hardened mini shields have be adjusted again, with the higher levels having reduced shield regeneration abilities.
-Minor edits for typos.
-Components have been rearranged so they fit together better.
-Drop pods are now only available to races that have both organic and religious, since other races cannot make good (non-abusive) use of the pod.
-Solar Sails are now available in a "Solo" model, which does not require any normal engines to move your ship. There is a bug in SE4, which means that "normal" solar sails give zero movement if there are no engines aboard, the "Solo" sails get around this.

ZeroAdunn

July 2nd, 2001, 09:43 PM

Hey just downloaded your mod, found a big error you might want to look at: you have three for the number of tech needed for drop pod but no third tech listed.

Also when I begin a game I get numerous other errors when I tried to let the computer auto generate players. Also I've got several good ideas for new components, if you interested E-Mail me: Zeroadunn@hotmail.com

Suicide Junkie

July 2nd, 2001, 11:04 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Also when I begin a game I get numerous other errors when I tried to let the computer auto generate players. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry. The randomly generated AIs do not work. They need to have the racial trait "Normal", or they end up acting like one-planet neutrals.
To fix this problem, players would have to download completely new AIs, and I don't want to have to do that.
I am creating an AI patcher program to deal with the new propusion system in P&N v2.0, so I might as well have it patch the racial trait choices too.

That is why I included the EMPs for races, which includes that racial trait. I believe I fixed that drop pod bug already, but I'll check.
And any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

------------------
The latest Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html).
-<Download V1.6 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsV1.6.zip)>-
-<Download compatible EMPs (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 02 July 2001).]

Andr�s

July 3rd, 2001, 06:13 AM

I just started to try your mod.
Good work it�s a new interesting way of playing even for an experienced player.
For my first game I used a nomad race, this negative maintenance was disconcerting at first, but then I realized that the negative values in maintenance cost in the empire status window meant they were actually subtracting a negative number, what is to add.
I took explored with my fist small space yard frigate until I found a nice nebulae system. Then I went to a quiet corner and just started to built a lot of resource ships and stations. Now I have a good number of them, have explored a little and contacted some friendly empires and made treaties so they share some of their research points with me. I�m starting to assemble a fleet of light cruisers and light carriers (I�ve seen other empires using battle cruisers by now).
Aren�t nomads too powerful?
I don�t see why I can�t go on building more and more resource bases there, so in time I will have access to unlimited resources. I believe that in the long run, even if I still have primitive tech I�ll be able outnumber and easily defeat any �normal� empire while my hidden production bases will never be attacked.

On another note, why don�t you post the complete mod tree, that is the directory, the path.txt and all directories inside including data, savegame and empires (to be able to save them without mixing them with the default game ones), and even a pictures\races and pictures\raceneutral (these cannot be added manually) and put modified AI files there. Adding the �regular� race advantage isn�t too difficult, I vote for adding all 20 original races and 6 original neutrals + a few custom races if you want.

Suicide Junkie

July 3rd, 2001, 02:04 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>For my first game I used a nomad race, this negative maintenance was disconcerting at first, but then I realized that the negative values in maintenance cost in the empire status window meant they were actually subtracting a negative number, what is to add.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Was this under SE4 v1.45? MM changed some of the hardcode regarding maintenance, so I was a little worried about the nomads.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Aren�t nomads too powerful?
I don�t see why I can�t go on building more and more resource bases there, so in time I will have access to unlimited resources. I believe that in the long run, even if I still have primitive tech I�ll be able outnumber and easily defeat any �normal� empire while my hidden production bases will never be attacked.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Against AIs, you are not at all likely to be attacked militarily. You may become the victim of AI intel attacks, though.
Against a human player, you will find that the nebula you're hiding in may suddenly become a black hole http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>On another note, why don�t you post the complete mod tree, that is the directory, the path.txt and all directories inside including data, savegame and empires (to be able to save them without mixing them with the default game ones)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I didn't realize that the savegame & Empires folders would work that way.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>pictures\races and pictures\raceneutral (these cannot be added manually) and put modified AI files there<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Any idea why you can't just right-click and say "newfolder"? It should be easy to add. Perhaps I will make a P&N v1.7 to include all of these suggestions in a Version without the extreme changes to the game that v2 has...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I believe I fixed that drop pod bug already, but I'll check.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I guess I'll just have to upload the zip file again.

------------------
The latest Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html).
-<Download V1.6 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsV1.6.zip)>-
-<Download compatible EMPs (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Andr�s

July 6th, 2001, 04:11 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
Was this under SE4 v1.45? MM changed some of the hardcode regarding maintenance, so I was a little worried about the nomads. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

v1.41, unless there's a new patch or you're a beta tester, that's Last Version

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:

Against AIs, you are not at all likely to be attacked militarily. You may become the victim of AI intel attacks, though.
Against a human player, you will find that the nebula you're hiding in may suddenly become a black hole http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm playing against the AI, but that sounds like a good strategy.

[This message has been edited by Andr�s Lescano (edited 06 July 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Andr�s Lescano (edited 06 July 2001).]

Suicide Junkie

July 6th, 2001, 05:59 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>v1.41, unless there's a new patch or you're a beta tester, that's Last Version<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Oops. you're right. Did the Nomads work properly for you under the latest public patch (1.41)?

------------------
The latest Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html).
-<Download V1.6 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsV1.6.zip)>-
-<Download compatible EMPs (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Suicide Junkie

July 7th, 2001, 06:31 AM

Installation:
1) Create a modfolder within your SE4 folder.
2) extract "Pirates&NomadsV2.0.zip" into the modfolder
3) Change your "path.txt" to point to your new modfolder
4) When creating your own race, choose one of "Regular", "Pirate" or "Nomadic".
If you choose "Pirate", also select characteristics of -9% reproduction, -50% environment resist, -50% trade, and -50% physical strength (ground combat).
These characteristics will ensure you have a truly "piratey" adventure!

EMPs
I haven't created any EMPs for the AIs yet, you'll just have to start random games and save the empires yourself.

Those with Modded AIs
A few clicks of my AI patcher can get your race working with P&N v2, even v1, or the original Pirates Mod (no nomads).
You'll naturally want to tweak it, but the patcher can save you the boring work.

Notes
- Big changes to propulsion, folks... keep a close eye on the speed readout as you design your ships, or you may get a nasty surprise when you try to move your ship! Bigger ships require more engines to move.
- Relating to the above, radioactives are now just as important as minerals, and organic races make use of all three fairly equally.
- Again relating to the propulsion thing, Solar Sails now provide standard movement, not bonus. They are somewhat slower than engines, but they do not waste any supplies. You can make sailing ships go pretty much as fast as you want, at the expense of usefulness.
- Phased Weapons have changed bigtime! Researching phased weapons will get you nothing on its own. Research energy pulse, torpedos, and/or missiles to get phased firepower.
- Accuracy bonuses for weapons are now shown as an ability!
- "Living ships" racial trait gives you new command & control components.
- Phased planetary shields are back! V1.41 P-MPSGs worked! Unfortunately, I couldn't get them to regenerate.
- Mine warheads come in come new types, including Ion, Tachyon, and Null-space!
- Mental Singularity generator now has a Quad2shields damage type.
- Ramming warheads have a Quad2Shields damage type.
- BattleMoons!!! What would you do with 10MT of space? Conveniently impervious to allegiance subverters (but not Boarding Parties), and the size of a small moon. Core mounts for this beast increas a weapon's size 50 times! Ever wanted to see a deathstar-style beam blow away a planet? Try a Core-Mount WaveMotionGun! WOooOOM! 11,000 damage to your target! Heehee http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Massive mount guns seem SO wussy now.
Bwa hahaaha!.
Do watch out for the loan sharks, cause one of these will cost you a fortune in addons.
At least the shipyard worker's union will be happy about a 5-year guarantee of job security http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.
- Whew! Also, there are a lot of goodies that have shown up not-so-recently, and were included in P&N v1.6, such as crossover racial techs. Take two or more at the same time, and get extra cool stuff!

If you find any bugs, please mention them in these forums, and I'll get squashin'.

Enjoy! - Nick Dumas

------------------
The latest Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html).
-<Download V1.6 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsV1.6.zip)>-
-<Download compatible EMPs (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

DirectorTsaarx

July 9th, 2001, 06:18 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
-BattleMoons!!! What would you do with 10MT of space? Conveniently impervious to allegiance subverters (but not Boarding Parties), and the size of a small moon. Core mounts for this beast increas a weapon's size 50 times! Ever wanted to see a deathstar-style beam blow away a planet? Try a Core-Mount WaveMotionGun! WOooOOM! 11,000 damage to your target! Heehee http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Massive mount guns seem SO wussy now.
Nick Dumas
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmmm.... I wonder if you can put Ringworld & Sphereworld components in those battlemoons... might be nice to build that stuff at a planetary shipyard & then move to an appropriate star...

Suicide Junkie

July 9th, 2001, 06:30 PM

Well, yes. Yes you could. You could put 4 ring/sphere components on the moon, and still have enough space for engines to move (400Kt). You end up with 1600Kt to put towards shields or cloaking or whatever.

It would be just a tad expensive though, and you lose the battlemoon when you finish the ringworld/dyson sphere.

------------------
The latest Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html).
-<Download V1.6 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsV1.6.zip)>-
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.6 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Easy to Use AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsAIpatcherBETA.zip) for any of SJ's mods>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Markavian

July 9th, 2001, 06:51 PM

Are we all quite happy to be in a post that's this big? Yes, no? probably.

Anyway, I'm about to test out this mod, :-d
If I like it, can I host it? I'll probably write a nice review too. . .

- John http://universalshipyards.tripod.com

Markavian

July 9th, 2001, 06:52 PM

capnq

July 9th, 2001, 07:03 PM

"Welcome back, my friends,
To the thread that never ends..."

------------------
Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu"

Markavian

July 9th, 2001, 08:18 PM

Bugggggggs, Squishy Bugs. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif

All tech on, neutral players, 5000 RPoints, Nomads, Religous, 5 Planets.

Froze up the gaem when you press end turn, and click comfirm: Player 2 Taking turn, 30 secs later, cntrl+alt+delete SE4 not responding.

HBUM had a similar prob, Identical infact. Hadrian took out the Nanobots, and it started working again.

Hmmmm! Help, please?

Suicide Junkie

July 9th, 2001, 10:33 PM

What do you know about player two? Are they a neutral?

I neglected to patch the neutrals, and they might be sitting there with nothing to do.

Try using the AIPatcher on the neutrals and see it it helps.

On the other hand, I've had my 1Ghz machine grind away on an AI turn long enough that I hit Ctrl-Alt-Delete, but the AI finished just as I hit the button, and I continued playing.
Try giving it a minute or two, and you should be aware that the "not responding" message only means that the program has not refreshed its screen in the Last 30 to 60 seconds, not that it has actually hung up.
Since SE4 only draws on the screen between AIs, a long AI turn can easily trigger the "not responding" tag.

Please post a description of the state of player two on the turn before (a save game would help too).

------------------
The latest Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html).
-<Download V1.6 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsV1.6.zip)>-
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.6 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Easy to Use AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsAIpatcherBETA.zip) for any of SJ's mods>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

July 10th, 2001, 01:50 AM

I do not know about your mod, but on my map9a by turn 25 or so my ancient race with religious, organic, crystalline can take 3 to 5 minutes just upgrading all designs and deciding what 6 planets to colonize next....

[This message has been edited by LCC (edited 10 July 2001).]

Markavian

July 10th, 2001, 11:46 PM

I don't have a savegame, because it crashed the game. I'll do some testing though, and see if I get the same problem.

If it is merely the computer taking too long, then isn't actually good enough. A game as 'simple' as SE4 shouldn't take more then a minute per turn, let alone 5 minutes, or 20 minutes on slower machines, or whatever.

Try patching the Neutral AI then, it'd be apreciated.

- John.

Markavian

July 10th, 2001, 11:48 PM

Markavian

July 10th, 2001, 11:48 PM

Markavian

July 10th, 2001, 11:49 PM

Markavian

July 11th, 2001, 01:27 AM

I didn't save the Last game, but the same erro has happened twice more, and I got a save game this time.

Neutrals were switched off.
I left SE4 too, even though it said '[not responding] after 2 minutes (cntrl+alt+delete).

Also, I noticed the bubble gel armour stuff has a size of 0kt Zero. That could be a prob. I was thinking the nano-bots for HBUM has a size of 1kt (and seemed to be the source of a similar error), maybe SE4 AI doesn't like components smaller then 10Kt?

Oh, and I re-made the battle, because I thought it bit boring just to copy a moon. ' http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif' - Hope someone likes it.

Suicide Junkie

July 11th, 2001, 02:27 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Oh, and I re-made the battle, because I thought it bit boring just to copy a moon. ' ' - Hope someone likes it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The battlemoon pic I included is just the default, in case your race dosen't have a pic.

The Pic you have there is pretty cool, and should be included in your race.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Also, I noticed the bubble gel armour stuff has a size of 0kt Zero. That could be a prob. I was thinking the nano-bots for HBUM has a size of 1kt (and seemed to be the source of a similar error), maybe SE4 AI doesn't like components smaller then 10Kt?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I've had those since SE4v1.two-something.
And the AIs in SE4 v1.35 work fine with it, using some, but not too much http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I still have to try out that savegame.

------------------
The latest info onPirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download V2.0 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModV2.0.zip)>-
-<Download V1.6 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsV1.6.zip)>-
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.6 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Suicide Junkie

July 11th, 2001, 02:57 AM

I think I have the problem now...

The design minister is definitely causing the freeze.

I believe that the minister is abusing the solar sails, by putting tons of 'em on a baseship... After 23 solar sails, the propulsion force exceeds 256, and a range check error occurs.

Sooo...

I'll have to take the solar sails and make them slower than engines, so they'll have to be smaller than their current size. Then we can see if it works.

EDIT: Yep, we have your game running smooth now.
Just copy the attached Components.txt over your old one, and you'll be set.
Basically, I just reduced the size of the solar sails to 7Kt, and scaled back their propulsion effect to 1,2,3 points.

It'll be the same game, but you'll have to put 3 new sails where you used to have one.

------------------
The latest info onPirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download V2.0 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModV2.0.zip)>-
-<Download V1.6 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsV1.6.zip)>-
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.6 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 11 July 2001).]

Suicide Junkie

July 26th, 2001, 03:58 AM

Pirates & Nomads V1.7 is now available! The differences between this and v1.6 are:
- AIs have been Patched! Yes, you can now use random AIs in your games!
- Ablative armor prices are now much more reasonable, and close to the price per hitpoints of shield generators. (as in P&N v2.1)
- Plasma Projection Armor, also from P&N v2.1 is included, as a bonus! This spans the gap between regular armor and ablative, by giving more hitpoints than standard armor, but faster repairs than Ablative!
-Emissive, Scattering and Stealth armor have been spread out more, so armor levels 4-6 aren't quite so jam-packed with components.

Also, Pirates & Nomads V2.1 is available!
It's got all the armor changes described above, and the DU AutoCannon, a machinegun-type weapon.
It is mostly minor changes as for as players will be concerned, but there is also hidden support for creating and playing Scenarios.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download V2.1 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModV2.1.zip)>- (Now with extra scenario support!)
-<Download V1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsV1.7.zip)>- (With default AIs patched)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 and higher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon)
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 26 July 2001).]

DocShane

July 26th, 2001, 05:47 AM

As a relative newbie, please explain the difference between Versions 2.1 and 1.7. And please tell me its more than 0.4.

Suicide Junkie

July 26th, 2001, 02:08 PM

Click the edit button on your Posts, and check the delete option (top left corner of the edit page)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>As a relative newbie, please explain the difference between Versions 2.1 and 1.7. And please tell me its more than 0.4. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Both have similarities, since they are both Pirates&Nomads games, but the major difference is that any P&N v1.? has the standard SE4 style propulsion.
P&N v2 uses a totally new propulsion system, wherein the engine requirements change depending on the mass of the ship.

ie. A destroyer (300kT) is twice the size/mass of an escort (150kT). In classic SE4, 6 ion engines move both ships at 6 speed. In P&N v2, the escort would have 6 movement, and the destroyer would have only 3. The number of engines on your ships is limited to 42 (rather than 6) in v2, since that is the point where RangeCheckErrors will occur.

v2 also includes BattleMoons (10MT mobile base), ion/tachyon/null-space mines, and other extras.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download V2.1 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModV2.1.zip)>- (Now with extra scenario support!)
-<Download V1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsV1.7.zip)>- (With default AIs patched)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 and higher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon)
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

Troilus

August 4th, 2001, 04:45 AM

I've never posted here before, but I've come out of lurking finally. P&N is, IMO, one of the best mods out there. However, I'm not that enamoured of the new movement system in Version 2.x. Unfortunately, I can't seem to successfully download 1.7--every time I try, it seems to work, but when I go to extract it, I get the message "Not a valid ZIP archive"

Has anyone else had this problem? Can it be fixed? I really want to try P&N1.7.

Suicide Junkie

August 5th, 2001, 02:09 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I've never posted here before, but I've come out of lurking finally. P&N is, IMO, one of the best mods out there. However, I'm not that enamoured of the new movement system in Version 2.x. Unfortunately, I can't seem to successfully download 1.7--every time I try, it seems to work, but when I go to extract it, I get the message "Not a valid ZIP archive"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Just in case, I've uploaded P&N v1.7 again. The problem is probably related to the internet problems going around right now.

As for the propulsion system, what don't you like about it? Anything in particular?

What it is designed to do is;
-shift the optimum shipsize downwards. Bigger is better, but way more expensive. In some cases, you're best off with a stack of frigates or light cruisers rather than dreadnaughts.
-make bigger ships use more fuel while moving. One solar panel can keep an escort going indefinitely, but not a baseship. You get the same travel range on your ships, but big ships are harder to resupply.
-make movement a step closer to reality. Identical engines will make an Escort zoom through space, but hardly move a heavy Dreadnaught

If you are having trouble designing your ships, remember that there is no real limit to the amount of engines you can add. Keep an eye on the "movement" rating of your ship as you add engines, and don't expect to have the same power per ship as normal SE4. Everybody goes under the same rules, so don't worry that your LC seems woefully weak.

Also, research propulsion early; fuel usage drops, and the ContraTerrene, JacketedPhoton, and Quantum engines boost speed by 33%, 66% and 100% respectively.
When you use quantum engines, you need only half as many - the extra space can go into weapons.

EDIT: I've just downloaded the ZIP, and it works fine under WinZip 8.0. Try D/L'ing it now.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download V2.1 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModV2.1.zip)>- (Now with extra scenario support!)
-<Download V1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsV1.7.zip)>- (With default AIs patched)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000612.html)>-
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 05 August 2001).]

Troilus

August 5th, 2001, 04:12 AM

Woo-woo! Thanks, S_J, the new upload done did it. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Looking at the download you just put up, I can tell something was seriously munged with the old 1.7 download, 'cause that one was only 15KB compared to the new one's 430+KB. Bit of a difference, that.

As for what I don't like about the new movement system in 2.x, it just doesn't really fit in with my conception of what a space opera should be like. For me, it also seems to make the early stages of the game go too slowly--colonizers & pop. transports doing about 1mp/turn can take an unbearably long time to reach planets just one jump away from the homeworld. That translates into no outlying resupply facilities for my exploration ships, which slows down my initial planet-grabbing. Of course, all the AIs have the same problem, but the 2.x mod just doesn't fit well with my playing style.

Suicide Junkie

August 5th, 2001, 04:52 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>As for what I don't like about the new movement system in 2.x, it just doesn't really fit in with my conception of what a space opera should be like. For me, it also seems to make the early stages of the game go too slowly--colonizers & pop. transports doing about 1mp/turn can take an unbearably long time to reach planets just one jump away from the homeworld. That translates into no outlying resupply facilities for my exploration ships, which slows down my initial planet-grabbing. Of course, all the AIs have the same problem, but the 2.x mod just doesn't fit well with my playing style.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>How are you designing these colonizers? The AIs get 3-4 Movement on theirs. Just go with basic C&C, the colony and engines. Forget the extra cargo bay - you can use a pop transport later.
With colony, B/LS/CQ, and 6 ion engines, you get 3 movement points, and 10KT extra. Thats not so bad, original SE4 only lets them go 5. 3MP is still 0.4% the speed of light, 1200 KM/s, 4.3 million KM/H.

Also, with Propulsion 3, your engines's supply use is reduced to 6, which allows you to go 70% farther before you need resupply.
Propulsion 2 gives you 25% farther.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download V2.1 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModV2.1.zip)>- (Now with extra scenario support!)
-<Download V1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsV1.7.zip)>- (With default AIs patched)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000612.html)>-
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

Devin D.Bass

August 9th, 2001, 01:12 AM

Wow! I just looked over some of the new modifications for the PN mod it looks great! However, I have some questions...

Is it compatiable with the TDM Mod Pack?
If not what are the differences or where can you refer me to learn more about the differences?

Can you give a little description on what makes this mod so great, especially AI wise.

Finally, can you either explain or direct me on what files I need to download the PN and how I should proceed.

Thanks

Suicide Junkie

August 9th, 2001, 02:44 AM

Hey, funny you should ask... I just now finished repackaging the mod to make it easier to install.

As for your questions:
-P&N cannot be compatible with Devnull, since we both make changes to the same files. Both mods have incorporated ideas from the other, altered to fit in with the rest of the mod, of course.
If you know what you are doing, you could cut and paste sections from both mods in order to make a merged mod. It would likely have many balance issues which you would have to independently resolve.

- Um. no. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif (at least not a "little description")
There are a ton of things here, so I'll leave it to Last, and people don't have to read the whole thing http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

- OK, installing the mod!
Any zip for PiratesMod, or Pirates&Nomads with a Version number below 2.1b must be extracted into a modfolder.
1) Create a folder within SE4
2) Extract the zip into your new folder
3) Set SE4's path.txt to point to the new folder you created.

But for any new releases of P&N,
1) Extract directly to SE4, and the directory structure will be created automatically.
2) Use the "copy of path for P&N _____" text file to set your path.txt. (where "_____" is the Version of P&N you want to play)
You can overwrite path.txt with this file, or copy-paste the text, or use a mod picker utility (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/003247.html).

Any of my new releases will be placed into an SE4 subfolder "suicidejunkiemods", and then into a sub-sub folder called "Pirated&NomadsModv2.1b" (or whatever the mod's name is). This should keep everything neatly organized.

------------------
As for AIs in particular; I have made no real serious changes to the AIs. Other people's AIs will work under my MOD, but you must first use my AI Patcher on them. (A twelve-click process, plus browsing through your harddrive using a standard windows "file-open" box)).
AIs will use some, but not all of the new components I have made. The ones they don't use have serious disadvantages that only humans will overcome. Most of these extra components are also intended for a role-playing style, rather than a down-and dirty war. Read: they look cool, and are effective for the first battle, but don't stand up to a long-term war, especially against humans.

Note: Some or most or maybe all of the TDM modpack AIs have been tweaked to go nuts building mineral miner facilities. Due to the increased value of radioactives in P&N2, they are no longer optimized. They will still be better than standard AIs under P&N2, and the standard AIs work just as well under Standard SE4 as under my MOD.

Everything below here is a complete summary of the changes of P&N! Reader Beware!

P&N V2.1b
-Includes everything from P&Nv 1.3 through 1.7 (see below)
- Propulsion requirements are now based on the mass of the ship! No more baseships zipping around with 2 escort class engines... double the mass, double the engines, go the same speed.
Be sure to keep a close eye on the speed stat while you design your ships, or you'll end up with an immobile ship http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
- Because of the engine requirements, radioactive resources are nearly as important as minerals! Be sure to balance your production when building facilities.
- Solar sails provide standard movement, not bonus, so they WILL stack. They are somewhat slower than engines, but do not waste supplies. (Sail Size is reduced to 7KT, to fix a minister bug)
- Phased Weapons have been deeply altered. Phased weapon tech gets you nothing by itself, but allows you to use phased Versions of your missile, torpedo and beam weapon techs. Research "missile weapons", "Torpedo Weapons", and "energy stream weapons" to get phased variants.
- All weapon accuracy bonuses are now shown as an ability. There is no more mystery, that WMG now says +30% accuracy when you click on it.
- "Living ships" racial trait, gives a smaller bridge and crew quarters component, and lifesupport components provide 1 repair/turn.
- Phased Planetary Shields! Woohoo! now you can protect those citizens better. Comes in 20K, 50K and 75K strength facilities, but requires shield tech levels as well.
- Mine Warheads come in Ion, Tachyon and NullSpace varieties, just laugh as your enemy's ships sit immobile and defenseless.
-Mental Singularity generator now has a Quad2shields damage type
-Ramming warheads have a Quad2Shields damage type
- BattleMoons! 10MegaTons of military might, convieniently impervious to psychic alliegiance subverters (not Boarding parties), and the size of a small moon! Core mounts boost weapon damage by 50 times (size by 25x). Try the 11,000 damage core-mount WMG - WOOoooOOM goodbye planet!
-Ablative Armor is now a reasonable price, and has been increased in size to 3KT. It ranges from 6 to 8 HP/KT... at best, this is equal to a phased-shield V, but takes a long time to repair.
-Plasma Projection Armor has replaced ablative armor as the top tech armor. It ranges from 8 to 14 HP/KT, 75% better than shields, but it takes forever to repair, since it comes in 1KT chunks. Thus, one repair bay III can only repair 112 hitpoints of PPA in one turn.
-Emissive, Steath and Scattering armor have been smeared out over the armor tech area, so they don't all get researched at the same time. They cover levels 2 through 8, rather than 4 to 6.
-DU autocannon. Just a 1/6th size DUC, but has a 5% accuracy bonus since you can "spray and pray"

A Summary of Changes in P&N V1.3 through V1.7
(vs. official SE4)
CompEnhancement
-Mod: Large/Heavy/Massive platform mounts add +1/+2/+3 range.
-New: Sattelite Siege Mount. 2x size, 1.5x damage, 5x cost, range +5, large sats only.

Components
-Mod: Rock/Ice/Gas colony modules require the "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Space Yard I/II/III require the "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Armor I/II/III provides 30/40/50 hitpoints.
-Mod: Emissive Armor I/II/III provides 100/110/120 hitpoints.
-Mod: Shields. Big changes.
"normal" shield generators provide the amount of hitpoints that "phased" shields used to. Normal shields are now only on odd tech levels, 1/3/5/7/9. Phased shields are available on even tech levels, and provide slightly more hitpoints than the previous normal (at techs 2/4/6/8/10). Normal and phased Shield generators I/II/III/IV/V provide 1/2/3/4/5 points of shield regeneration.
-Mod: Shield Regenerators. Available on even tech levels. Provide bonus shield points equivalent to one turn of regeneration.
eg. SRI gives 5 pts regen, now gives 5pts extra shields too.
-Mod: Supply storage reduced in size to 5kT, since engines store the same amount of supplies at 10kT.
-Mod: Small emissive armor I: provides 14 hitpoints.
-Add: Small emissive armor II: provides 20 hitpoints at armor tech lev 6
-Mod: Small shield generators: regenerate 10% of their max strength per turn.
(Unit shield regen is not currently supported by SE4, but when it is, this will start working)
-Mod: Point defence cannons have approx. 50% range, but slightly higher damage.
-Add: Point defence lasers equivalent to PDC, but have full range (upto 8) and approx. 50% damage.
-Mod: WaveMotionGun I/II/III has range boosted to 8/10/11
-Mod: Allegiance subverters require the "Normal" racial trait.
-Mod: Kamikaze warhead I/II/III do 60/120/180 damage.
-Add: Ablative Armor I/II/III/IV/V. 1kT, 8/10/12/13/14 hitpoints. Available for all vehicle types.
-Add: Machine Shop I/II. repairs one component per turn, 40/20 kT size.
-Add: Small space yard. Requires "Nomadic" or "Pirate" racial traits. Repairs one component/turn, builds with 300 resources/turn. 100kT size.
-Add: Tachyon Dampener. 30Kt, 100 hitpoints. Will absorb a fraction of weapon-destroying attacks.
-Add: Swashbucklers. Requires "Pirate" racial tech. 20kT, provides 12 boarding attack power. (note that one crew quarters provides 16 defence-destroy it or use two swashbuckler comps.)
-Add: Swashbuckler Pod. same as above, but 10kT, and available on fighters for "Pirate" or "Nomadic" racial techs.
-Add: Mineral Crystallizer, Hydroponics bay, radioactives collider. These are add-on facilities for the "Nomad" tech resource-generating ships and bases.
-Add: Supply storage I. 1kT, stores 100 supplies, available on fighters.
-Add: Quantum reactor. 20kT, available on fighters. Requires "Nomadic" racial tech.
-Add: Tachyon sensors I/II/III. 40kT, available on fighters. Requires "Nomadic" racial tech.
-Add: Small armor I/II/III. provides 4/5/6 hitpoints.
-Add: Solar Collectors I/II/III. provides 50/100/150 supplies per turn. 20kT. Available on fighters. Requires "Nomadic" racial tech.
-Add: Reduced solar sail. 12kT. provides 1 bonus movement. Available on fighters. Requires "Nomadic" racial tech. No other tech requirement.
-Add: Small solar sail I/II/III. 5kT, provides 1/2/3 bonus movement. Available on fighters. Requires "Nomadic" Racial tech.
-Add: Small Null-Space projector. 5kT, 4 damage at range 1, 4 reload, available on fighters. Requires "Nomadic" tech.
-Add: Space Yard. 200kT, repairs 5 per turn, builds with 2000 resources per turn. Requires "Nomadic" Racial Tech.
-Add: Reduced Shield Generator I/II/III. 10kT, provides 25/50/75 shield points, regenerates 2/4/6 points/turn. Provides 30/40/50 armor points. Requires shield tech level 3/6/9. Requires Armor tech 3/5/7.
-Add: Reduced Shield Regenerator I/II/III. 5kT, regenerates 2/3/4 points per turn. Requires shield tech level 5/7/10.
-Add: Heavy Shield Generator I/II/III. 200kT. generates 1500/2000/2500 shield points. Regenerates 50/75/100 points per turn. Requires shield tech level 11/12/13.
-Add: Hardened Bulkheads I/II/III. zerokT. Provides 25/30/35 hitpoints. Non-armor. Protects against (A)/(A)(S)/(A)(S)(W),
Where A=armor penetrators, S=shield destroyers, and W=weapon destroyers.

Facility
-Mod: (Mineral,organic,radioactive generators) I/II/III. Stores 1000/1250/1500 resources. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Monolith facility I/II/III. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Research Facility I/II/III. Requires "Normal" or"Nomad" racial tech.
-Mod: Intelligence Facil I/II/III. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Gestation Vats I/II/III. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Replicant Center I/II/III. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Space Yard Facility I/II/III. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Add: Massive planetary shield generator I/II/III. Requires ruin tech "MPSG". Requires shield tech lev 3/6/9. Provides 20K/50K/75K shield points. Very expensive.
-Mod: Temporal Space yard. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Mod: Solar Generator I/II/III. Requires "Normal" racial tech.
-Add: Pirate's Intelligence Center. Provides 1000 intel points. Requires "Pirate" racial tech.
-Add: Slave Labour Camp. Generates 100 each resource (per star). Requires "Pirate" Racial tech.
-Add: Research Center. Generates 200 research points. Requires "Pirate" racial tech.
-Add: Space Yard Facility. Repairs 5 comps per turn, builds with 1000 resources per turn. Requires "Pirate" or "Nomad" racial techs.
-Add: Large Planetary Shield Generator I/II/III. Provides 5K/20K/50K. Requires shield tech level 14/15/16.

IntelProjects
-Mod: All offensive intel projects require "Normal" racial trait. Pirates & nomads only use defensive. Exceptions: Resource & tech theft.

Racial Traits
-Add: "Normal" racial tech. Allows colony ships, planet-based resource extractors.
-Add: "Pirate" racial tech. Allows access to specialty pirate techs.
a race with low maintenance is highly reccommended if you choose this.
-Add: "Nomadic" racial tech. Allows access to Nomadic techs.

Settings
Max systems = 255
Minimum resource generation = 500
planet percent value loss after death = 30
resource aptitude minimum percent = 25
maximum units/ships per sector = 10,000
maximum units/ships per player = 10,000

TechArea
Armor maximum level = 11
Shields maximum level = 16
"Normal", "Pirate", "Nomadic" tech areas

VehicleSize
-Add: Resource Base. Generates resources each turn. Production can be boosted with plug-in components. 600kT. +60% chance of being hit. Requires "Nomadic" racial tech.
-Add: Resource Ship. Generates resources each turn. Production can be boosted with plug-in components. 300kT. Has a +50% chance of being hit. Requires "Nomadic" Racial tech.
-Add: Medium/Large/Heavy/Massive fighter. Size of 20/25/35/50 kT. Massive fighter requires 2 engines per move. Heavy/Massive have unlimited # of engines. Requires "Nomadic" racial tech.

P&N v1.5

-CSM's now described as "chaped-charge chemical warheads"
-Heavy Bombardment Missiles (same as CSM) have nuclear warheads, and cause quad damage to shields from the EMP. They are double size, and have quad strength seekers.
-Added "crossover" techs which require two racial tech areas. Every 2-trait combination is here .
-Added Pirate Hoard facil which stores enourmous amounts of resources.

-Rebalanced the Hardened Mini-shield generators, so they more closely follow the shield & armor development.
-New Comp Enhancements. There are Cheap, Budget, Durable, Premium components. For non-weapons only, they affect hitpoints based on how much you want to spend for each part.
-Bugfix for the crossover techs.
-Replaced "Cheap" components with "normal"... the really low hitpoint stuff was getting hit Last, and that really screwed things up. The AIs will use normal internal components on their ships.

P&N v1.6
-Hardened mini shields have be adjusted again, with the higher levels having reduced shield regeneration abilities.
-Minor edits for typos.
-Components have been rearranged so they fit together better.
-Drop pods are now only available to races that have both organic and religious, since other races cannot make good (non-abusive) use of the pod.
-Solar Sails are now available in a "Solo" model, which does not require any normal engines to move your ship. There is a bug in SE4, which means that "normal" solar sails give zero movement if there are no engines aboard, the "Solo" sails get around this.

SE4 V1.7
-Cleaned up components file, now everything is in a nice order, with all of the armor types grouped together and stuff like that.
-Reduced the price for ablative armor to reasonable levels, and added plasma armor
-Spread out armor technologies.

Wow you're pretty devoted if you've read this far! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download V2.1 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModV2.1.zip)>- (Now with extra scenario support!)
-<Download V1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsV1.7.zip)>- (With default AIs patched)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000612.html)>-
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

Suicide Junkie

August 9th, 2001, 03:24 AM

Really short Summary, and a test of my new Sig links.

P&N Classic: This is exactly the same as P&N v1.7, but is zipped up in a much more user-friendly way. Use winzip, and extract the files into your SE4 directory.
The mod will create a path.txt file, but not overwrite your current one.
It will also neatly package the mod into a "SuicideJunkieMods" folder in SE4.

Big features of P&N v2.1b:
-Battlemoons. Don't get much bigger than that http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
-Propulsion based on the mass of the ship! If you have an LC (400KT), it requires twice as many engines just to keep up with a Frigate (200KT). It also burns twice as much fuel per square of movement. Works out a lot better in practice than you might think!
-Ablative Armor & Plasma Projection Armor. Super-strength armor that rivals shields for combat effectiveness! Provides more hitpoints but takes ages to repair after the battle. Ships are very unlikely to survive a second wave, since they won't have time to repair. You definitely need to use a mix of shields and armor in your fleets, if not your individual ships.
-A whole set of New components, facilities and vehicles! These allow pirates to make a living plundering trade routes in the darkness of space, and for nomads to survive without planets to support them.
-Shields have been serioiusly messed with. All shields regenerate a small amout each turn, normal and phased generators alternate through the tech levels, there are mini Versions of shields & regenerators, and a crossover tech between shield and armor.
-Point defense is split into Lasers vs. Cannons. Lasers have roughly half the damage of cannons, but have enough range to protect the entire fleet. Cannons are very powerful, but only extend two squares, leaving the fleet exposed.
-BuckyTube Gel armor. Zero KT of space, but really expensive. It is not always hit first like armor, but advanced Versions protect against null space, tachyons and shield disruptors. You can get 6,000 hitpoints worth of this stuff on a ship, but it'll cost you close to $100,000 minerals.
-Crossover Techs! If you choose to take more than one 1500 point racial tech, you get a bonus of having a crossover. For example, Religious + Organic = GenEngineered Fanatics! A 1KT "drop pod" contains a commando who can take on 2 or 3 militia units on his own! He feels right at home commanding a troop unit too!
Temporal + Organic gives you the Temporal Cloning Vats! Fill up a solar system in no time at all.

And that's all I can think of for Really Important changes from SE4 original.

(Still really long for a "short description, though")

EDIT: Found a bug in my sig. Should be good now.

EDIT2: Yep works now.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download V2.1b (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModV2.1b.zip)>- (Now with EZ-Install, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download P&N Classic (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModClassic.zip)>- (The final release of P&N v1.x, with EZ-Install, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000612.html)>-
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 09 August 2001).]

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 09 August 2001).]

Devin D.Bass

August 9th, 2001, 06:01 AM

So let me understand what your saying,
your Mod will work with TDM but not with Devnull mod?

And if I decide to continue to use the TDM mod inconjunction with your mod I will have to run a AI patch modifier?

Anything else.

Thanks for the info I AM SO LOOKING FORWARD TO USING THIS MOD

Suicide Junkie

August 9th, 2001, 02:37 PM

Yes.
Devnull changes the same files as my mod does, so one mod overwrites the other in a bad way.

TDM only changes AIs, while P&N does not change the AIs, so it will not conflict with my Mod.
I DO have a patched Version all of the standard AIs included in my mod, but they can be overwritten with no ill effect.

D/L the AI patcher from my sig, read the readme.txt if you wish, and follow these steps.
1) run the AIPatcher.exe
2) click mode, and choose the mod you wish to patch for. (P&Nv2 is the default)
3) Click "browse...", and find the "AI_general.txt" file for your ai, select it, and press open.
4) Click "Patch AI General". The status bar should blink a few changes at you in less than a second.
5) Click "browse..." and select your AI's ship_design.txt.
6) Click "Patch AI ship design". The status bar will again flash a bunch of changes, and may take as long as two seconds on a really ancient machine.

This will create four extra files in your AI's folder. A backup General.txt, an general.txt.PATCHED, a backup shipdesign.txt, and a ship_design.txt.PATCHED file.

7) Use the .patched files for P&N v2, and use the backup files to restore the AI to normal operation.

NOTE: if you check the box at the top right of the window, the AI patcher will automatically overwrite your AIs files, basically doing step 7 for you. Be sure to only click the Patch buttons once per file when this option is enabled.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download V2.1b (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModV2.1b.zip)>- (Now with EZ-Install, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download P&N Classic (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModClassic.zip)>- (The final release of P&N v1.x, with EZ-Install, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000612.html)>-
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

Puke

August 10th, 2001, 01:17 AM

or install each mod into a seperate directory and switch between them using the mod-chooser.

Suicide Junkie

August 10th, 2001, 01:55 AM

I would reccommend checking out the Mod Launcher (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/003279.html), by Matryx.

And I now have P&N v2.2 out!
Just D/L and extract to your SE4 folder.

Unpacking the zip will not overwrite your path.txt; I feel that that is a bit too invasive. You just change your path.txt whenever you feel like playing P&N.

P&N V2.2 changes:
-Changed: Living Ships racial trait cost increased to 500.
-Added: Big Thinkers racial trait. All units are increased 25% in size.
-Added: Tiny Race racial trait. Bridge, Lifesupport, CrewQuarters and Auxiliary Control are reduced 30% in size.
-Added: Pack Rats racial trait. Crew quarters gain cargo storage ability.
-Added: Expanded Automation. One fewer Lifesupport and crewquarters is required on every ship.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download V2.2 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModV2.2.zip)>- (Now with EZ-Install, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download P&N Classic (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModClassic.zip)>- (The final release of P&N v1.x, with EZ-Install, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000612.html)>-
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

Rich04

August 10th, 2001, 05:18 PM

First I want to congratulate you on an excellent mod. Great Job. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I was just wondering why PBW isn't supporting it since it supports so many other mods?

I would love to try it out against a bunch of other people. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Matryx

August 10th, 2001, 06:12 PM

Thanks for the advert Suicide Junkie http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif

Good to see P&N V2.2 is out. I'm downloading it right now.

I do have some Queries / observations on the way Nomads work.
I noticed that several areas now have no effect as a nomad (depending on play style)...
*Physical Strength : You only have 1 planet : Put to 50%
*Intelligence : You barely have any research centres : Put to 50%
*Cunning : You never get (enough) intelligence facilities so you can bung this down to 50%
Reproduction : You can't build colony ships -> can't settle new planets. So why do you need to reproduce? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
Tolerance : See Reproduction.
Happiness: You only have one planet and that only needs to Last long enough to get your resource collectors up.
Political Savvy : You never have enough to make trade worthwhile : put to 50%
Minerals Extraction : You never Extract minerals so it has no effect
Organics Extranction : Same
Radioactives Extraction : Same
Ship Maintenance : If you increase your bonus you effectively penalise your harvest by the same amount -> no change

* unless you plan on using troops to take over other player's planet and relevant facilities

Following all these you can get :-
Physical Strength : 50%
Intelligence : 50%
Cunning : 50%
Environmental Resistance : 50%
Reproduction : 91%
Happiness : 50%
Agressiveness : 125%
Defensiveness : 125%
Political Savvy : 50%
Mining Aptitude : 25%
Farming Aptitude : 25%
Refining Aptitude : 25%
Construction Aptitude : 150%
Repair Aptitude : 150%
Maintenance Aptitude : 80%

And you still have 725 points free!
Of course what I end up doing is reducing Ship Contruction and picking more advantageous racial traits. E.g. + 1 move.

Maybe if you change the way Nomads work and have them Remote Miners and Solar Collectors instead of negative maintenance?
Just my views. Feel free to trash them / ignore at will.

------------------
The Unofficial Space Empires 4 Mod Utility V1.7 (Revision 3)
------------------
Download as a .ZIP <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.zip)>
Download as a .RAR <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.rar)>
Download as a .ACE <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.ace)>
Check a Screenshot of it<HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/Screen.jpg)>

Check an Alpha Shot of my Mod Editor (Unreleased) <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/Alpha.jpg)>

Matryx

August 10th, 2001, 06:23 PM

One thing to note about the mod launcher : It only detects mods that are 1 directory deep
So when you extract Pirates and Nomads V2.2 you need to extract it into \<SE4Directory>\Pirates or something similar rather than \suicidejunkiemods\pirates&nomadsv2.2

SJ : Dont suppose I can hassle you to change the format of the .Zip file can I? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
And also to include a ModInfo.txt in the mod's root directory? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon10.gif
I can even provide one for you if you want.

------------------
The Unofficial Space Empires 4 Mod Utility V1.7 (Revision 3)
------------------
Download as a .ZIP <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.zip)>
Download as a .RAR <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.rar)>
Download as a .ACE <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.ace)>
Check a Screenshot of it<HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/Screen.jpg)>

Check an Alpha Shot of my Mod Editor (Unreleased) <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/Alpha.jpg)>

Matryx

August 10th, 2001, 06:39 PM

One Last suggestion SJ : You haven't allowed for Miniaturised, living, automatic, packrat ships http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
I picked all of them because it'd be Excellent to have all of the bonuses.. I see you have some linked up (e.g. Miniaturised Crewquaters(Packrat) )
Perhaps there should be Miniaturised Neural Tendrils(Packrat)
That or make a note that Living Ships don't have crew and so can't store cargo in their quaters *and* that living ships can't be miniaturised or automated.

*Finally* Weapons Platforms are units as well, yet aren't included in the Big Thinkers racial trait's effect.

------------------
The Unofficial Space Empires 4 Mod Utility V1.7 (Revision 3)
------------------
Download as a .ZIP <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.zip)>
Download as a .RAR <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.rar)>
Download as a .ACE <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.ace)>
Check a Screenshot of it<HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/Screen.jpg)>

Check an Alpha Shot of my Mod Editor (Unreleased) <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/Alpha.jpg)>

[This message has been edited by Matryx (edited 10 August 2001).]

Suicide Junkie

August 10th, 2001, 09:23 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Maybe if you change the way Nomads work and have them Remote Miners and Solar Collectors instead of negative maintenance?
Just my views. Feel free to trash them / ignore at will.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That sounds pretty good.
If I could make all of the shiphulls zero-maintenance, then your 500 basic production, plus any remote mining you do would fund the construction of additional ships.

In the beginning, nomads would remote mine resources, building ships with the profit, and would be forced to move to new territory when their remote miners run dry.
When they run out of uninhabited worlds, Nomads would jump in, attack a world, strip mine it of resources, then leave before the player can muster a defense force. The difficulty would be in taking planets with minimal losses, so you can actually make a profit after rebuilding lost ships. They would probably turn into pirates, and capture ships as a budgetary mainstay.

Pirates would be able to make better use of planets, with slave labour camps (they could even follow the nomads wake, putting slave colonies down on the large, zero value worlds).

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>One thing to note about the mod launcher : It only detects mods that are 1 directory deep<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Could you possibly expand the program to search multiple levels?
I thought that the <author>\<specific mod>\<files> directory structure was really neat and tidy (and maybe a little innovative, too http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif).
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>SJ : Dont suppose I can hassle you to change the format of the .Zip file can I?
And also to include a ModInfo.txt in the mod's root directory?
I can even provide one for you if you want.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Players could always move the P&N folder to <SE4>\<P&N>. Just a click-and drag away.

I think I'll create my own ModInfo.txt, and make it a 50Kb monster detailing all the changes from SE4 classic http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>That or make a note that Living Ships don't have crew and so can't store cargo in their quaters *and* that living ships can't be miniaturised or automated.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You got it! I would have put more of a description, explaining these limitations, but they are fairly logical, and took up too much space on the screen.

Living Ships's C&C components are all brain, no body. You don't usually store your old junk in your brain or spinal cord. The living ships from a packrat race would just insist on having a cargo bay or two installed http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.
Miniaturization occurs because your CREW is smaller, and need less open space. The living ships are not of your race, just the minds/brains of your race, enlarged to use the ship as a body.
Automation decreases the crew complement required to run the ship. A living ship has a crew anywhere from zero to one (inclusive), depending on your point of view. You can't reduce that any further without losing control of your ship.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>*Finally* Weapons Platforms are units as well, yet aren't included in the Big Thinkers racial trait's effect<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well... OK. That would make them 250KT, 500Kt and 750KT in size.
I'll have to bump up the price of the trait, then too.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download V2.2 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModV2.2.zip)>- (Now with EZ-Install, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download P&N Classic (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModClassic.zip)>- (The final release of P&N v1.x, with EZ-Install, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000612.html)>-
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

Matryx

August 10th, 2001, 09:44 PM

I shall work on a new Version of the mod selector which will scan for deeper mods.
Not sure how well it'll work but I'm sure I'll find a way http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

------------------
The Unofficial Space Empires 4 Mod Utility V1.7 (Revision 3)
------------------
Download as a .ZIP <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.zip)>
Download as a .RAR <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.rar)>
Download as a .ACE <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.ace)>
Check a Screenshot of it<HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/Screen.jpg)>

Check an Alpha Shot of my Mod Editor (Unreleased) <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/Alpha.jpg)>

Suicide Junkie

August 10th, 2001, 11:59 PM

Great!

BTW, where would the ModInfo.txt go?

By default, I'm putting it inside the <SE4>\<sjmods>\<P&Nv2.2b> modfolder.

Turns out the file's only 12Kb http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download V2.2b (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModV2.2b.zip)>- (Now with EZ-Install, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download P&N Classic (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModClassic.zip)>- (The final release of P&N v1.x, with EZ-Install, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000612.html)>-
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

Matryx

August 11th, 2001, 12:02 AM

Lets say you just had it installed in \SE4\Pirates
The Modinfo file should be \Se4\Pirates\Modinfo.txt
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
and 12KB?!?!?!
wow
That's *huge* http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

------------------
The Unofficial Space Empires 4 Mod Utility V1.7 (Revision 3)
------------------
Download as a .ZIP <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.zip)>
Download as a .RAR <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.rar)>
Download as a .ACE <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.ace)>
Check a Screenshot of it<HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/Screen.jpg)>

Check an Alpha Shot of my Mod Editor (Unreleased) <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/Alpha.jpg)>

Matryx

August 11th, 2001, 12:04 AM

oh.. you have named it wrong
you have Modinfo.txt.txt http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
My program won't work with that :P

Matryx

August 11th, 2001, 12:07 AM

Also, you have the file format wrong.
Try to keep lines short as there is a limited display width and it'll look better if it's designed for the right width (it does wrap but it can look bad sometimes)
I have uploaded a sample modinfo.txt for you to view

------------------
The Unofficial Space Empires 4 Mod Utility V1.7 (Revision 3)
------------------
Download as a .ZIP <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.zip)>
Download as a .RAR <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.rar)>
Download as a .ACE <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.ace)>
Check a Screenshot of it<HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/Screen.jpg)>

Check an Alpha Shot of my Mod Editor (Unreleased) <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/Alpha.jpg)>

Suicide Junkie

August 11th, 2001, 12:10 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>oh.. you have named it wrong
you have Modinfo.txt.txt
My program won't work with that :P<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I noticed. I would have had the fix uploaded before you posted, but my internet crashed http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif.

It is fixed now http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download V2.2b (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModV2.2b.zip)>- (Now with EZ-Install, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download P&N Classic (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModClassic.zip)>- (The final release of P&N v1.x, with EZ-Install, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000612.html)>-
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

Suicide Junkie

August 13th, 2001, 11:49 PM

Here is another update to the modinfo.txt.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download V2.2b (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModV2.2b.zip)>- (Now with EZ-Install, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download P&N Classic (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModClassic.zip)>- (The final release of P&N v1.x, with EZ-Install, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000612.html)>-
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

Mad_Lear

August 14th, 2001, 12:19 AM

Ok,
I just finished getting off my lazy butt to play with some of the AI generals of some of my favorite races to produce "P&Nv2 Versions" of them which us the appropriate "racial quirks" so that the ai uses some of the cool flavour of the mod (gave the Cephalopeia the living ship tech, stuff like that). It got me to thinking about how cool it would be to have race designers make custume P&N Versions of their races. I wouldn't imagine it would be too much work if you already had a good base ai file to work with, and it would at a lot to the game IMO. Still, it would be extra work for people that already give me very cool stuff for free, and it probably isn't fair to bug them like this. Still, I can't help but wonder what people who make amazing races like the Cephalopeia, the aquilaeians (one of the toughes ai races I've ever had to face) and the rage collective would be able to do with a whole new tech tree to work with. TDM modpack P&N addition, anyone? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
I mean, I know customn P&N Versions of races would be confusing to new players (hell, first time I had to install a new race, took me 3 trys to find the right directory) but I would really like to see AI designed to thrive in the P&N environment. Even AI with mod-patched (cool little utility, btw) ship designs (for a resonable amount of engines) and a re-mixed general AI to suit the environment would be cool. For example, I considered playing with the AI general of the Darlock shipset to give them miniture race addvantage (shapeshifters could use special shapes disigned to make more room for other things, right?) but then I thought maybe theyed be too dignified to make utilitarian shapechanges like that. While I can make my own decisions about stuff like that (I gave them the tiny race advantage) I think it would be cool to see what the guy who spent hours trying to re-create the Darlok race for the SEIV universe would think. But anyway, like I said, this may be pure ingratitude, asking for special mod Versions of races from people who already spent hours producing a free comercial quality product. But, as someone from the War Engine forum observed "gamers are a terminally dissatisfied lot" http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

P.S. typed this idea up quick before I left for town. So probably full of spelling/grammer mistakes and top-of-mind gibberish. Was kind of wondering if other people thought the same way...

Matryx

August 14th, 2001, 02:06 AM

Excellent work SJ http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
Couldn't have written a bett one myself http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
Expect a new Version of my mod launcher by the end of the week, assuming I dont get bogged down much more than I am. This should support the option to specify other mod directories if you so chose http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

------------------
The Unofficial Space Empires 4 Mod Utility V1.7 (Revision 3)
------------------
Download as a .ZIP <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.zip)>
Download as a .RAR <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.rar)>
Download as a .ACE <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.ace)>
Check a Screenshot of it<HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/Screen.jpg)>

Check an Alpha Shot of my Mod Editor (Unreleased) <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/Alpha.jpg)>

Suicide Junkie

August 23rd, 2001, 12:41 AM

Here we go.

P&N v2.3

-Nomads no longer get resource ships
-Nomads have ultra-recyclers, reducing maintenance on ships and bases to 1%
-Organic Armor regeneration has been halved! Your armor will heal over only 3 times per battle, rather than 6.
-BioCrystal armor has both abilities reduced to 60-70% of the individual tech armors. You still end up with 130% abilities/Kt, plus, your crystalline effect dosen't degrade permanently.

Note: Nomads, Beware! Having a damaged recycler can bankrupt your empire very quickly!

Matryx

August 23rd, 2001, 01:52 AM

SJ : Your Modinfo.txt had "Modinfo2 " as the first line when it needs to be "Modinfo2"

Suicide Junkie

August 23rd, 2001, 05:54 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>SJ : Your Modinfo.txt had "Modinfo2 " as the first line when it needs to be "Modinfo2"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>sheesh. I took me a while to figure out what you were saying was wrong http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I guess that space got added when I copied from your example using my web browser.

Whitespace problems are annoying... might that be easily tweakable (by stripping out spaces from the strings)?

Anyways,
I removed a bunch of trailing spaces, and the new zip should be easier on your modpicker.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 23 August 2001).]

Matryx

August 23rd, 2001, 08:53 AM

I'll update my Mod Picker in a day or two to counteract a couple of trailing space errors I've seen.
Shouldn't be too hard http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Devin D.Bass

August 23rd, 2001, 07:27 PM

I still am so confused...
Please explain this to me like a six-yearold..
If I install the P&N 2.3 does it overwrite my TDM? If no, then will the TDM races be available to play? Will they play properly?
What is the P&N 1.7????
Do I need a create a new directory for the P&N 2.3 mod, and and how will I play it. Currently the path is directed towards the TDM stuff. Where does the AI Patcher come into play? Finally, Matryx has a mod switcher how does that factor in?

Sorry about the multiple questions but it si soooo confusing. I really want to play this mod but I don;t want to disturb my current game under the TDM Mod. Please help? Remember to make it simple as possible.

Matryx

August 23rd, 2001, 07:59 PM

Firstly, I'll make the assumption that you have TDM installed in a directory called TDM or similar rather than overwriting the base data files (which would be a bad idea)

Next:-
If you install P&N 2.3 it will *NOT* overwrite your TDM mod (disclaimer: unless you install it into the same directory which would be a bad idea)
when you download the zip file, extract the contents (keeping folder structure) to your SE4 directory.
This will create a SuicideJunkieMods directory under which will be Pirates and nomads.
Now, my recommendation is you 'Cut' the P&N directory out of SuicideJunkieMods and 'Paste' it into your SE4 directory, then delete the SuicideJunkieMods directory.
Sometimes it's nice to keep all the mods ordered like SJ does. Indeed I do too, but in this case when you only have 2 mods I dont think it's needed and it'll just complicate things.

Next. Download my Mod Selection Utility (the link is in my signiature)
The readme.doc explains how to use it but it's fairly easy to understand anyway.
Using my Mod Picker means you wont have to continuously edit the path.txt file to change which Mod you want to run.

By doing all of this you have 2 completely separate mods. This means the TDM races will *not* be available in Pirates And Nomads.

SJ will need to explain about his AI patcher as I know nothing about that.

I think I have covered everything.
If I haven't answered anything correctly / completely then just ask again or call me incompetent

------------------
The Unofficial Space Empires 4 Mod Utility V2.0
------------------
Download as a .ZIP <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.zip)>
Download as a .RAR <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.rar)>
Download as a .ACE <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.ace)>
Check a Screenshot of it<HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/Screen.jpg)>

Check an Alpha Shot of my Mod Editor (Unreleased) <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/Alpha.jpg)>

Devin D.Bass

August 24th, 2001, 03:32 PM

Thank you Matryx

Suicide Junkie

August 24th, 2001, 04:43 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>What is the P&N 1.7????<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>P&N v1.x are Versions of P&N without the fancy propulsion scheme in P&N v2.x
P&N 1.7 is the second-Last Version 1 P&N, followed by "P&N Classic", which includes classic propulsion with a few more cool techs from P&N v2.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>By doing all of this you have 2 completely separate mods. This means the TDM races will *not* be available in Pirates And Nomads.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>To make the TDM AIs available in P&N, just copy the TDM AI files over top of my AIs, then run the AIPatcher on them.

Don't worry about messing up P&N, since you can reinstall any time.

NOTE: TDM AIs are optimized for standard SE4.
I suspect that most of them will be set up to produce tons of minerals at the expense of other resources. This could be a handicap, since radioactives are much more important in P&N v2.

Adding Races to P&N v2
1) copy AI files (into the same place as the other AIs "images\AI" I think.)

2) Download and run my AIPatcher.

3) Check the box in the top right corner to make the process faster (though you can ruin P&N this way, that's no big deal)

4) Click browse, and find the P&N AI you wish to patch. Select its "AI_general.txt" and hit OPEN

5) Click the "Patch AI General" button once

6) Click browse, and find the "AI_designCreation.txt", then press open.

7) Click "Patch AI Design" once

8) Repeat steps 4-7 for any other AIs that you've added.

9) Have fun with P&N

Before patching any files, the AI patcher will create a backup copy. It will then read through the AI file, spitting out a ".txt.patched" file with P&N v2 changes.
If you leave the checkbox in the top right unchecked, then you will have to replace the original files with the ".txt.patched" files manually before the AIs will work properly.

Trouble Shooting: AKA, if I missed a step. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
- When checked, the box in the top right will cause the AI Patcher to automatically overwrite your AI's files as they are patched. Trying to Patch a Patched file the second time will ruin it.
If you left the box unchecked, or if you checked the box and hit "Patch AI _____" twice, then you will have to do some manual file moves or start over with that AI.

If you have the box checked, and clicked one of the Patch buttons twice, you can recover.
The ".txt.bak" file will be a backup of the Patched-Once AI, so replace the original with this backup and continue.
If you have pressed the patch button more than once, you must delete the AI and start over.

To get "add existing race" AIs
1) Start a game with lots of random AIs, plus yourself.

2) On turn 1, go into the file menu (looks like a checklist), and choose "players"

3) Uncheck all of the players (IE. make 'em human controlled)

4) As each player's turn starts, open the file menu, and choose "Same Empire"

5) Give each AI empire a recognizable name, such as "Phong 2000 RP" (RP=racial Points)

6) Repeat steps 4-5 for every player except your own.

7) Repeat steps 1-7 until you have lots of EMP files built up.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download V2.3 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModV2.3.zip)>- (just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download P&N Classic (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModClassic.zip)>- (The final release of P&N v1.x, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000612.html)>-
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

<SE4Code>
MpN R*-A RM(L) RP+ TCP- Fq++ FR!++ P? A+/- Sf+ Nd- L $ M++++ Pw!+
</SE4Code>

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 24 August 2001).]

geoschmo

August 26th, 2001, 04:57 AM

Pirates and Nomads V 2.3 is now supprted for games on PBW. Enjoy!

Geoschmo

Argh

August 29th, 2001, 10:34 PM

/me bumps cool topic thread

Suicide Junkie

September 1st, 2001, 04:47 AM

Warning: A small addition for those of you using P&N v2.

Before playing P&N v2.0 through v2.3
Extract the attached ZIP to your P&N modfolder (typically, "SE4\SuicideJunkieMods\Pirates&NomadsV<Version#>"). It will place new ShipDesign files in Pictures\Races\<AI>, and you are finished.

For P&N games in progress
Apply the patch, and restart SE4. The patch is fully compatible with all savegames, and will not have any effect, except on future AI Baseship designs.

When running my AI Patcher:
Choose an "engine factor" of at least 45 to prevent illegal AI designs from causing deadly RangeCheckErrors in game.

Edit: In fact, 42 is the theoretical limit before the AI can design itself an RCE. in theory...

If you get an RCE, and were using older AI files, you must either repatch the AIs from original copies, or use the attached file.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 01 September 2001).]

Suicide Junkie

September 1st, 2001, 05:13 AM

Here is the new P&N v2.3b.

All that has changed, is that I've applied the patch described below.

If you can't figure out how to apply it, are downloading P&N for the first time, or have a really great internet connection, take V2.3b

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download V2.3b (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModV2.3b.zip)>- (Fixed rare RCE from AI; just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<P&N V2 AI patch (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/AIPatchforP&Nv2.zip)>- (V2 only, for the AIs included in ZIPs from v2.0 to v2.3, prevents rare RCEs)
-<Download P&N Classic (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModClassic.zip)>- (The final release of P&N v1.x, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000612.html)>-
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

<SE4Code>
MpN R*-A RM(L) RP+ TCP- Fq++ FR!++ P? A+/- Sf+ Nd- L $ M++++ Pw!+
</SE4Code>

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 01 September 2001).]

Devin D.Bass

September 2nd, 2001, 10:40 PM

Ok, I have the P&N 2.3B mod loaded and ready to go...question the Mod only comes with the standard SEIV AI which I assume have been modified to handle the construction in the Mod...What other races have been optimized to use this GREAT MOD?

Suicide Junkie

September 3rd, 2001, 02:01 AM

None that I know of.

However, if you download my AI patcher (see sig), you can use it to adapt other AIs for P&N v2.

Just copy the AI into P&N, and follow the instructions included in the ZIP.

You must change the default "Engine Factor" in the patcher to a value greater than 42. 45 is now reccommended.
If you don't some AI designs may cause RangeCheckErrors.

Once you have used the patcher, the AI will be, not optimized, but useful in P&N v2.

I don't consider any of the AIs to be "optimized" for P&Nv2.
To be optimized, the AI would have to be tweaked to produce more refining worlds, and the research priorities would be changed a bit.
An optimized AI would be set up to use the advanced armor available, and would probably include Heavy Shield generators in its designs.

The AIs currently available for P&N v2 are reasonably good at at early tech levels, and I reccommend the highest tech costs with a low tech start.

Playing against other humans would be the best way to play, of course.

golf_prez

September 19th, 2001, 12:14 AM

Hi All.... I have a few questions regarding P&N that I was hoping could possibly be answered???

I've seen that PBW has a game starting which is using P&N v2.3 (I thinking of joining and trying out P&N) ....

I gather that P&N is a very well established mod to SEIV and has LOTS more components, facilities etc.. (Is that correct??)

I downloaded the P&Nv2.3b Zipfile, and was looking for a summary of WHAT P&N is comprised of....could'nt really find one (other than ModInfo.txt) Is there such a summary available ??

thanks in advance!
golf_prez

Suicide Junkie

September 19th, 2001, 03:03 AM

The Modinfo.TXT is the detailed summary. It lists every change I've made, up to 2.3.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I gather that P&N is a very well established mod to SEIV and has LOTS more components, facilities etc.. (Is that correct??)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It is not so much "lots of new components" as turning classic SE4 things upside down.
The top four ideas in P&N v2.
1)IDIC. Encourage players to make varied ships. Two defense examples:
- Advanced armor is stronger than shields, but can take years to repair. Armor ships will win the first battle, but are then useless. Shield ships are weaker, but can fight campaigns.
- Phased shields protect against more weapon types, but cost an extra tech level to get. Odd tech levels have vastly superior "normal" shields, even tech levels have slightly stronger "phased".
2)Propulsion was the whole point of V2. Now, a Dreadnaught cannot use escort-sized engines to cruise space. Spending 30%-40% of your available mass on engines is not uncommon in V2.
3)Crossover Techs. A race with more than one "Racial Techs" can use them in combination! Temporal plus Crystalline gives "Harmonic Shielding" (really fast regeneration). Organic plus Religious gives "Bio-Engineered Fanatic" which allows powerful 1KT sized troops.
4)Phased Weapons are more flexible. Researching "phased weapons" gets you nothing. You must combine that research with standard weapons technology to get phased Versions. The three types of phased weapons are Beams, Torpedoes and Missiles.

The Short, Short Version of a very long list of changes from standard SE4 http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
- Propulsion: ships with twice the mass move half the speed. Engine limits are 42 engines per ship because of hardcode limits. Solar sails provide slower movement, but minimal fuel costs.
- Resource Balance: Not much difference in prices, but be aware of the fact that fast ships will cost more radioactives than organics.
- Racial traits Some new minor options, plus Living ships, which gives small C&C plus repairs from lifesupport components. The Major difference is the Crossover techs Choosing "Organic" plus "Crystalline" techs, gives "Bio-Crystal Armor", for example.
- Vehicles:
- BattleMoons!!! Get max tech in ships and bases, then you can build these 10,000 KT behemoths, and put a 50x damage "Planetoid Core Mount" Bwa Ha HA These will not move using Ion engines, but CT or higher can get you 1 movement point. They are immune to Allegiance Subverters.
- Heavy / Massive Fighters. Only available to Nomads, but up to 50KT (62KT with "Think Big" racial trait) Can carry Anti-cloak sensors, full PDCs, and quantum reactors.
- Mounts:
- Satellite Siege mount: range +5, cost x5, size increase, slight boost in power.
- "Planetoid Core Mount" x50 damage, x25 size. Only usable on Battlemoons. Accuracy penalty.
- "Premium", "Durable", and "Budget" components. Applies to non-weapons only. Ranges from (80% cost, 50% hitpoints) to (200% cost, 140% hitpoints).
- Offence:
- To get phased weapons, you must research BOTH "Phased Weapons" AND the weapon tech to make the phased Version of. There are phased "Energy stream", "Torpedoes" and "Missiles"
- Mine Warheads come in "Engine - only", "Weapon only" and "Null Space" flavours.
- Heavy Bombardment Missiles are equivalent to CSMs, except they do Double damage to shields, and half-damage to armor.
- Wave Motion Guns have range extended to 8, 10, and 11.
- APBs are weaker at first, then become better. Compared to meson bLasters, they end up with +1 range, more damage close in, and less damage at max range.
- Defense:
- Point-Defense has been split into two types, they are researched simultaneously at the moment. Read the description carefully to deside which is best.
- Counters are available for everything except Engine-Destroying weapons. See BuckyTube Gel armor, Tachyon Dampers, and Hardened Shield Generators.
- Shields alternate between normal and phased, plus there are TONS of new choices. Planetary shields become available at the top levels.
- Armor levels are mixed up a bit, and advances are spread evenly. At least five more levels are added at the end, with super-tough armor. At max-tech, Armor is tactically stronger than shields, but comes at a hefty strategic penalty.

-----------------------------

For details on any specific topic, just ask http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download V2.3b (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModV2.3b.zip)>- (Fixed rare RCE from AI; just extract to your SE4 folder)
--<Download my HomeComing scenario (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/HomecomingScenario.zip)>- (For P&N v2.3b)
--<P&N V2 AI patch (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/AIPatchforP&Nv2.zip)>- (V2 only, for the AIs included in ZIPs from v2.0 to v2.3, prevents rare RCEs)
-<Download P&N Classic (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModClassic.zip)>- (The final release of P&N v1.x, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
-<Download my FTL propulsion map (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsFTLmap.MAP)>- (ships can travel FTL StarTrek/B5/StarWars style)
-<Download my LAN helper (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/LANhelper.zip)>- (Auto-searches for new turns on a filesharing-enabled LAN)
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000612.html)>-
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

<SE4Code>
MpN R*-A RM(L) RP+ TCP- Fq++ FR!++ P? A+/- Sf+ Nd- L $ M++++ Pw!+
</SE4Code>

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 19 September 2001).]

Suicide Junkie

September 19th, 2001, 04:25 AM

Here is the latest Version with small bugfixes and a twist (Heavy shields are normal not phased, and have +500 HP)

The bugs:
- Ion mines required Tachyon tech (weapon-destroying weapons)
- The note about "+X% accuracy" on some weapons caused them to be hit by shield-disruptors.

golf_prez

September 20th, 2001, 01:02 AM

thanks suicide_junkie for the summary, just what I was looking for !!!

You have done some VERY interesting things in your MOD.... I will definitely be installing and learning the "Pirate Way" !!

thanks again

Suicide Junkie

September 20th, 2001, 01:42 AM

NP.

That is just the tip of the iceberg, though: remember the Titanic, and be careful http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif

At the beginning, you will have a real problem with radioactives. I suggest building a space construction base, then converting some of your planet's mineral miners to radioactives colliders, while your base builds colony ships.

Nesborn

September 20th, 2001, 02:35 AM

In order to use this mod, do you have to create a new player race? I only ask this because no races show up in the add existing.

Suicide Junkie

September 20th, 2001, 03:00 AM

This mod includes new racial traits, so most .EMPs are invalidated.

The only human races I have saved with the latest Version are my tech tester race and my Orion Syndicate race. Neither of which are terribly useful.

You will definitely want to create your own from scratch.

NOTE: If you are playing as pirates or nomads, I highly reccommend reducing your planet-based traits to minimum. Since you cannot build colony ships or resource extractors, you will need those points for other things.

Once you are comfortable with the mod, try my Homecoming scenario:
You are a neutral race (confined to one system), and have just learned that your star is about to go nova. You must brave the dangers of the outside world, and one day return to rebuild your homeworld.

Nesborn

September 20th, 2001, 03:06 AM

Actually, I tried to load up the Homeworld Scenario, but it simply gave me an error and failed to load.

Deathstalker

September 20th, 2001, 05:15 AM

I am just discovering the 'Pirate Way'...I would like to mod some of my own AI's to use with this mod...What exactly should I know for changes?? So far (by the designcreations files) all I need to change is the engine numbers?? Or am I missing something....

------------------
"We are all...the sum of our scars"....(paraphrased) Matt. R. Stover-'Blade of Tyshalle'.

"Human existance is all imagination...Reality is no more than a simple agreement among its participants that this is where we shall meet, and these are the rules that we shall abide by."- Kevin McCarthy/David Silva "The Family:Special Effects"..

Suicide Junkie

September 20th, 2001, 05:50 AM

To fix AIs, in order of priority:
- They MUST choose the racial trait "Normal"
- The should have many more engines (My AIPatcher adds a "one engine per 45KT", but thats not the only way to do it)
- The AI should probably designate more colonies as "Refining Colony", roughly equal in number to Mining colonies.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Actually, I tried to load up the Homeworld Scenario, but it simply gave me an error and failed to load.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Problem is probably SE4 v1.41.
I started that scenario game using SE4 v1.35, since 1.41 freezes on me.

If you've got space on your harddrive, you could make another SE4 and patch it to 1.35.

Dang. That is a really cool scenario too.

PS: If you do decide to install an SE4 v1.35 and try the scenario, be aware of this:
- If you save and reload, you are no longer playing the scenario, just a normal game that looks exactly like it.
- The timely updates on your star's progress are part of the scenario, so if you save and reload, you won't get the countdown.
Therefore, try to play the first 30 turns is one sitting, so you don't get your exodus fleet vaporized because you thought you had a few more turns left http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 20 September 2001).]

Rollo

September 20th, 2001, 12:02 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> originally posted by Deathstalker:
I am just discovering the 'Pirate Way'...I would like to mod some of my own AI's to use with this mod...What exactly should I know for changes??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good question. I also want to make a Version of the Vikings for P&N, but have not played P&N as much as would like to. Deathstalker, maybe we can exchange ideas/experiences of the conVersion of races for P&N. suicide junkie would be of invaluable help here, because I am not sure that I have the time to "explore" this mod by myself just with playing it or looking at the files.

Homecoming scenario

I downloaded this and played it a little bit yesterday. No problems here with SE4 v1.41, P&N v2.3b.

Rollo

Rollo

September 20th, 2001, 12:10 PM

SJ,
I was a little confused yesterday by your P&N2.3c.zip. It had two folders in there: 2.3b and 2.3c, but all the the 2.3c subfolders were empty. So I am not entirely sure which Version I have now. Not important though, because I didn't have any problems, yet http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.

Rollo

Suicide Junkie

September 20th, 2001, 05:23 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I was a little confused yesterday by your P&N2.3c.zip. It had two folders in there: 2.3b and 2.3c, but all the the 2.3c subfolders were empty.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'll look into it and upload the ZIP again once I get home.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Good question. I also want to make a Version of the Vikings for P&N, but have not played P&N as much as would like to. Deathstalker, maybe we can exchange ideas/experiences of the conVersion of races for P&N. Suicide junkie would be of invaluable help here, because I am not sure that I have the time to "explore" this mod by myself just with playing it or looking at the files.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I suggest running my AIPatcher on a copy of your AI.
That way, you get all of the repetitive busywork out of the way (Adds engines to ship designs, and takes "Normal" every time)
Once that is done, you can tweak other stuff to your liking.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download V2.3c (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModV2.3c.zip)>- (minor bugfixes; just extract to your SE4 folder)
--<Download my HomeComing scenario (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/HomecomingScenario.zip)>- (For P&N v2.3b)
--<P&N V2 AI patch (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/AIPatchforP&Nv2.zip)>- (V2 only, for the AIs included in ZIPs from v2.0 to v2.3, prevents rare RCEs)
-<Download P&N Classic (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModClassic.zip)>- (The final release of P&N v1.x, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
-<Download my FTL propulsion map (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsFTLmap.MAP)>- (ships can travel FTL StarTrek/B5/StarWars style)
-<Download my LAN helper (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/LANhelper.zip)>- (Auto-searches for new turns on a filesharing-enabled LAN)
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000612.html)>-
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

<SE4Code>
MpN R*-A RM(L) RP+ TCP- Fq++ FR!++ P? A+/- Sf+ Nd- L $ M++++ Pw!+
</SE4Code>

dogscoff

September 20th, 2001, 09:17 PM

S_J - your .sig file will soon be bigger than
most ppl's mods...

Thought you mignt be interested in seeing the new Space Viking Battlemoon. It's on the main viking page (click on the URL in my nice, compact .sig down there=-)

------------------
SE4 Code:
L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M>M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G-
/SE4 Code
Go to my meagre SEIV pages (http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/se4main.htm) to generate your own code.

Suicide Junkie

September 21st, 2001, 12:07 AM

Wow. That Space Viking Battlemoon (http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/viking.htm) looks great!

Just to doublecheck, the files should refer to "MassiveBaseShip", rather than "BattleMoon".

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I was a little confused yesterday by your P&N2.3c.zip. It had two folders in there: 2.3b and 2.3c, but all the the 2.3c subfolders were empty. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Oops. My bad. I've fixed the ZIP's directory structure and re-uploaded the file.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download V2.3c (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModV2.3c.zip)>- (minor bugfixes; just extract to your SE4 folder)
--<Download my HomeComing scenario (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/HomecomingScenario.zip)>- (For P&N v2.3b)
--<P&N V2 AI patch (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/AIPatchforP&Nv2.zip)>- (V2 only, for the AIs included in ZIPs from v2.0 to v2.3, prevents rare RCEs)
-<Download P&N Classic (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModClassic.zip)>- (The final release of P&N v1.x, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
-<Download my FTL propulsion map (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsFTLmap.MAP)>- (ships can travel FTL StarTrek/B5/StarWars style)
-<Download my LAN helper (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/LANhelper.zip)>- (Auto-searches for new turns on a filesharing-enabled LAN)
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000612.html)>-
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

<SE4Code>
MpN R*-A RM(L) RP+ TCP- Fq++ FR!++ P? A+/- Sf+ Nd- L $ M++++ Pw!+
</SE4Code>

BadAxe

September 21st, 2001, 05:04 PM

I would like to try your mod, but there are no Empires. ...try, try again.

dogscoff

September 21st, 2001, 07:30 PM

QUOTE:
Wow. That Space Viking Battlemoon looks great!
/QUOTE:

Thanx=-)

QUOTE:
Pirates&NomadsModv2.3c.zip
Just to doublecheck, the files should refer to "MassiveBaseShip", rather than "BattleMoon"
/QUOTE:
Thanx again. I'll point Rollo to this thread (if he's not reading it already.) He compiles the zips=-)

Don't know if you're aware though, in your pirates zip, the massivebaseship images are there twice, once as "massivebaseship" and once as "battlemoon".

QUOTE:
Wow. That Space Viking Battlemoon looks great!

QUOTE:
Pirates&NomadsModv2.3c.zip
Just to doublecheck, the files should refer to "MassiveBaseShip", rather than "BattleMoon"
/QUOTE

OK, I'll make sure Rollo's aware. (He's been compiling the zips so far.) I don't know if you know S_J, but your battlemoon image is in the generic directory twice in your zip, once as "massivebaseship" and once as "battlemoon". Is this deliberate then?

QUOTE:
I would like to try your mod, but there are no races
/QUOTE
Keep an eye on the viking thread. There will be a P&N compatible race available, if you canjust be patient...

------------------
SE4 Code:
L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M>M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G-
/SE4 Code
Go to my meagre SEIV pages (http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/se4main.htm) to generate your own code.

Rollo

September 21st, 2001, 09:32 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by dogscoff:
... I'll point Rollo to this thread (if he's not reading it already.) He compiles the zips=-)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I noticed.
Thanks,
Rollo

Suicide Junkie

September 21st, 2001, 11:37 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I would like to try your mod, but there are no Empires. ...try, try again.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That is absolutely NOT true.
I have no .EMPs associated with the mod, but EVERY SINGLE AI that comes with SE4 in included in the zip (appropriately modified).

Just play a game with randomly generated AI players or neutrals, and then save them to .EMP files.

Also, any AI that works under unmodded SE4 can be quickly altered to run under P&N v2, simply by applying my AIPatcher to them (read the instructions and make a backup of the AI first http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif)

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download V2.3c (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModV2.3c.zip)>- (minor bugfixes; just extract to your SE4 folder)
--<Download my HomeComing scenario (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/HomecomingScenario.zip)>- (For P&N v2.3b)
--<P&N V2 AI patch (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/AIPatchforP&Nv2.zip)>- (V2 only, for the AIs included in ZIPs from v2.0 to v2.3, prevents rare RCEs)
-<Download P&N Classic (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModClassic.zip)>- (The final release of P&N v1.x, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
-<Download my FTL propulsion map (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsFTLmap.MAP)>- (ships can travel FTL StarTrek/B5/StarWars style)
-<Download my LAN helper (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/LANhelper.zip)>- (Auto-searches for new turns on a filesharing-enabled LAN)
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000612.html)>-
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

<SE4Code>
MpN R*-A RM(L) RP+ TCP- Fq++ FR!++ P? A+/- Sf+ Nd- L $ M++++ Pw!+
</SE4Code>

dumbluck

September 23rd, 2001, 08:08 AM

I think I found a bug with P&Nv2.3b (haven't gotten around to unzipping 2.3c yet). ANYONE gets the Big Thinker units, not just those w/ the racial trait. I noticed it when I got mines (the first unit I used). I am not a big thinker, and yet I got two mine designs: Small Mine and Small Mine (TB). the (TB) mine is 12kt (as opposed to the 10kt regular mine). Then I checked out Small Satellites. Same thing; 2 sizes, Regular (80kt) and (TB)(100kt)

Also, On the ship/base/mine/sat design screen, BEFORE you pick a hull size, it says that i have 0kt/4kt. Ummmmmmmmmm..... huh? I have no Idea what that means. I just checked, the same 0/4kt thing is in TDM Modpack, too. Or it may just be my antique computer, too....

And another thing. I don't know if this is a mod bug or a hard code bug, but in the combat replay in simmove, the heavy bombardment missles show up as regular cap ship missles. I don't know if they perform like regular missles or as you designed them though.

Gosh, i'm finding so many problems. Let me just reaffirm something here. I _LOVE_ this mod!!!!!

[This message has been edited by dumbluck (edited 23 September 2001).]

Suicide Junkie

September 23rd, 2001, 04:54 PM

Thanks for the Big Thinkers bug report.
In fact, while I was playing my HomeComing scenario, I was surprised at how much stuff the AI had crammed into its units, but I didn't catch it as a bug http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Download either the new vehiclesize.txt or the full zip to fix the bug. Saved games will work fine after it is installed.
(BTW, I've changed the link in my sig to "Latest P&N" which will updated in every post whenever I upload)

The 4KT hull size is the default for SE4 when you haven't chosen a hull yet. I assume that is so you don't get a division by zero error before you can choose a size to design.

Any missile uses the same picture, from your race style. Seeker spores look the same as Nukes.
The damage they do is real, though. If you check the component you will see "Quad to Shields". Since they are twice the size as CSMs, they essentially do 2x to shields and 1/2x to armor/internals. They're also better at soaking up PD fire (you may have noticed that in the replay).

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download the Latest Version of P&N (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/LatestPirates&NomadsMod.zip)>- (just extract to your SE4 folder)
--<Download my HomeComing scenario (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/HomecomingScenario.zip)>- (For P&N v2.3b or higher)
--<P&N V2 AI patch (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/AIPatchforP&Nv2.zip)>- (V2 only, for the AIs included in ZIPs from v2.0 to v2.3, prevents rare RCEs)
-<Download P&N Classic (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModClassic.zip)>- (The final release of P&N v1.x, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
-<Download my FTL propulsion map (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsFTLmap.MAP)>- (ships can travel FTL StarTrek/B5/StarWars style)
-<Download my LAN helper (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/LANhelper.zip)>- (Auto-searches for new turns on a filesharing-enabled LAN)
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000612.html)>-
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

<SE4Code>
MpN R*-A RM(L) RP+ TCP- Fq++ FR!++ P? A+/- Sf+ Nd- L $ M++++ Pw!+
</SE4Code>

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 23 September 2001).]

dumbluck

September 24th, 2001, 06:14 AM

No, I did check the item in combat replay. I pointed at a ship, which brought up it's components. Right click on the heavy bombardment missle 3, and it brought up the info on Cap Ship Missle 3. But I never checked to see if it was doing the right amount of damage; in fact, I don't know that I can because combat replay doesn't show damage done, or even whether the missle hits or misses. the missle just moves on top of the ship and disappears, no explosion.

Sorry if this sounds kind of disjointed, I'm running on a significant lack of sleep...

Suicide Junkie

September 24th, 2001, 04:27 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Right click on the heavy bombardment missle 3, and it brought up the info on Cap Ship Missle 3. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>From the ship view in combat, you can't tell whether it has a CSM or HBM until you click the component. When you did, it appeared to be a CSM.
Who is your opponent, BTW? Or is this your own ship design?

Are you sure that the ship is carrying HBMs vs CSMs? The two are almost identical.
-Same damage
-Same range
-Same pic
-etc

EDIT: To clarify, they have the same damage #s, but different damage types, and different damage Ratings(dgm/kt/reload)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>But I never checked to see if it was doing the right amount of damage; in fact, I don't know that I can because combat replay doesn't show damage done, or even whether the missle hits or misses.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You could always try a simulator battle.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download the Latest Version of P&N (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/LatestPirates&NomadsModV2.zip)>- (just extract to your SE4 folder)
--<Download my HomeComing scenario (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/HomecomingScenario.zip)>- (For P&N v2.3b)
--<P&N V2 AI patch (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/AIPatchforP&Nv2.zip)>- (V2 only, for the AIs included in ZIPs from v2.0 to v2.3, prevents rare RCEs)
-<Download P&N Classic (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModClassic.zip)>- (The final release of P&N v1.x, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
-<Download my FTL propulsion map (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsFTLmap.MAP)>- (ships can travel FTL StarTrek/B5/StarWars style)
-<Download my LAN helper (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/LANhelper.zip)>- (Auto-searches for new turns on a filesharing-enabled LAN)
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000612.html)>-
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

<SE4Code>
MpN R*-A RM(L) RP+ TCP- Fq++ FR!++ P? A+/- Sf+ Nd- L $ M++++ Pw!+
</SE4Code>

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 24 September 2001).]

Phoenix-D

September 25th, 2001, 04:44 AM

I was looking over the P&N components.txt file today, to see how you did the anti-weapon destroying stuff. I think I found a minor problem- the tachyon cannon and grid have the same weapon family. So if anyone makes an AI using the weapon destroying weapons.. what happens?

Phoenix-D

Suicide Junkie

September 25th, 2001, 02:45 PM

The weapons come later in the components file, so the AI would probably add the Tachyon defense at the beginning, then upgrade/replace it with tachyon weapons once it has the tech.

dumbluck

September 26th, 2001, 12:31 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
From the ship view in combat, you can't tell whether it has a CSM or HBM until you click the component. When you did, it appeared to be a CSM.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Correct. In nice big letters, it said "Capital Ship Missle III".

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Who is your opponent, BTW? Or is this your own ship design? Are you sure that the ship is carrying HBMs vs CSMs?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sallega, i think. But it is my design; that's how I know for a fact that it has HBMs on it!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
The two are almost identical.
-Same damage
-Same range
-Same pic
-etc

EDIT: To clarify, they have the same damage #s, but different damage types, and different damage Ratings(dgm/kt/reload)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Everything matched up with Cap Ship Missle 3 in the combat replay.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
But I never checked to see if it was doing the right amount of damage; in fact, I don't know that I can because combat replay doesn't show damage done, or even whether the missle hits or misses.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You could always try a simulator battle.

Heh. I never thought of that. Personally, I think it's just displaying the wrong info and using the right info in the actual calculations. But what do I know?

Have you tried to replicate the problem? Maybe it's just my antique excuse for a computer that's messing things up .....

[This message has been edited by dumbluck (edited 26 September 2001).]

Suicide Junkie

September 26th, 2001, 03:35 PM

Well, I can't play under 1.41 for long (message crashes), and I don't have a simul game going right now.

I have been playing 1.31 sequential turn games, and haven't noticed a problem.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Heh. I never thought of that. Personally, I think it's just displaying the wrong info and using the right info in the actual calculations. But what do I know?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So, you have checked the plans for that design, and they show up as HBMs. Then in the replay, they appear to be CSMs?

You could take a close look at the replay, and write down how much shield strength and hull hitpoints the enemy should have had. Add up how much damage the missiles should have done so far, and see how many missiles it takes to destroy.
If you want to make that kind of thing easier, build a base with lots of shields, but nothing else. Then attack it using a different player (real combat), using a ship with a single HBM. If the base dies, the missile hits were doing HBM damage. A single CSM should not be able to breach the shields.

Skulky

October 16th, 2001, 04:18 AM

I noticed that the game includes a racial trait/technology called 'IS A CHEATER.' What is this and how does it work. In the techareas.txt file it said that it allowed scenario generation to take place. If so how do you do it. I set it as a racial trait and then tried to use it but nothing happened and the screen went black. SE4 still worked but I did not see how the tech would allow you do editing. I am greatly intereseted in making scenarios and would greatly appreciate any comments.

Also, i was wondering if you had any ideas about how to make drones work and how to make their ai work. I think that they could be a big addition to the SE4 game and P&N.

Finally, how do you effectivly play the pirates or the nomads. All the empires i come across are too strong for me. Any strategies?

Thanks so much, David

my email is chocolatefro@angelfire.com

chewy027

October 16th, 2001, 05:19 AM

skulky as far as i know there is no way to make drones or there AI work yet. MM is hopefully working on that. I'll leave the rest of your questions to SJ http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Suicide Junkie

October 18th, 2001, 05:55 PM

Sorry for the delay; I missed a few days, and the topic got pushed down http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif.

The is a cheater trait allowed the construction of "scenario resource ships", which had a hugely negative maintenance cost.

I used that to create my "Chess" scenario, using that hull as the king so when it is lost, the rest of your forces rapidly die from maintenance costs.

That was only used for that one situation, so the hull might not even be available.

As for playing a pirate or nomad race:
#1 priority: Get boarding parties!
#2 priority: Meet new races!
#3 priority: Capture their ships, or leech off them via a trade alliance.

The key to surviving as a pirate or nomad is to be a leech. Nomads can also make use of 99% less maintenance on their ships, but you must add the maintenance reducer component manually! Be aware that ships with a damaged maintenance reducer will cost full price, and should be repaired or destroyed immediately (since they cost 100x more now).

First build some exploration escorts with swashbucklers or boarding parties.
The key is to find another race before they develop shields, since then it is easy to capture technology and resources.
The first ships you capture should get you bigger hulls and weapons technology. You can then use that to defeat and capture larger ships, and shielded ships, and so on.
If you already have the tech, you can scrap the ships to fund your raiders, or retrofit them as new capture ships.

Tips:
- Explore and meet quickly: It is nearly impossible to capture ships with shields and self-destruct devices. You don't want to fall too far behind in technology.
- Make use of the "Budget" mount to save 20% on ship prices & maintenance.
- Stick with Ion engine III's for the early game: They are very fuel efficient, and have a low cost per movement point. You can always use numbers to overwhelm advanced tech, but solitary ships.
- Build outPosts. Even an escort can hold a pirate's spaceyard, use it to build cheap space stations in storms and nebulae. The base can then be used as a field repair/retrofit/scrap base, as well as providing supplies for ships when you fleet them with the base.
- Choose your battles: taking one ship at a time is a lot easier than attacking an entire fleet. If you capture an enemy ship, its friends will likely destroy it, leaving you with no profit.
- Troops are great! If you can take over a large mining world, you'll be rolling in money for years to come. Don't be afraid to sell out if the enemy fleets come http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.
- Capture colony ships as a priority. They provide population to boost your production, as well as new colonies.
- Be wary of your income. You get 1000 of each resource by default, but only if you aren't producing any of that resource yourself. Building your first SlaveLabour camp can crimp your budget, but with enough, you'll make profit. Be sure to save up lots of resources and have lots of facility slots ready before starting the project.

dumbluck

October 19th, 2001, 11:46 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
- Be wary of your income. You get 1000 of each resource by default, but only if you aren't producing any of that resource yourself. Building your first SlaveLabour camp can crimp your budget, but with enough, you'll make profit. Be sure to save up lots of resources and have lots of facility slots ready before starting the project.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you lose the 1000 even if you don't have a spaceport in system (and therefore can't earn anything from the slave labor camps)?

Suicide Junkie

October 19th, 2001, 03:53 PM

As far as SE4 v1.35, having no spaceport meant you got zero.
I have used this to my advantage sometimes, giving me time to build enough slave labour camps to be profitable before giving up my 1000 "charity" resources.

If you still get 25% without a spaceport in newer Versions, then you're gonna just have to slog through it using stored resources.
Try building one in a non-spaceport system, and see what happens.

If you get the 25%, then start with spaceports. Emergency Build SLCs on all of your planets, especially those in Bi- or Tri-nary starsystems (cause they get 2-3x the resource output). When they all complete on the same turn, you will have been collecting the "charity" during the build turns, and should now be making at least 1000 each resource.

Rollo

October 20th, 2001, 01:50 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by dumbluck:
Do you lose the 1000 even if you don't have a spaceport in system (and therefore can't earn anything from the slave labor camps)?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess that would make it even worse. Having no spaceport doesn't mean you lose all production in the system. You still get 25% without a sapceport.

Rollo

dumbluck

October 20th, 2001, 04:19 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
As far as SE4 v1.35, having no spaceport meant you got zero.
I have used this to my advantage sometimes, giving me time to build enough slave labour camps to be profitable before giving up my 1000 "charity" resources.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The exact reason I asked. I could say that "great minds think alike", except that I know I'm not a great mind, which kinda leaves you out in the cold too, unfortunately. Of coarse, I don't think a mediocre mind could have come up with this awesome mod....

Suicide Junkie

October 20th, 2001, 05:52 AM

LOL http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Suicide Junkie

October 22nd, 2001, 12:01 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>How well does the AI handle defences that cancel the null-space ability of null-space weapons? Will it only use null-space "resistant" components when faceing an opponent using null-space weapons? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The AIs will not typically use the specialty defenses, however I have seen an AI put a 6-pack of BTG armor on its fighters once. Made them very tough to kill.

The BTG armor is not "armor" the way you normally think of it. The way it works is that the BTG is not armor, but a regular internal component.
When you add 50 of them to an LC, then perhaps 80% of the time, armor-skipping weapons will hit the BTG rather than critical components.
Given 200 BTG IIIs on a 50 component DN or BS, you get 7,000HP at roughly 80% absorption.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I wonder if SEIV's lack of "defense against every special damage" is because the AI currently can't handle it well. (I feel guilty about going around with nomal-shield ships and zapping all the nomal-shielded AI ships with PP weapons, and then zapping them all with something with a high raw damage as soon as the AI goes to P-shields.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, I've designed it that the defenses are not too powerful; They are probably best used in a RP situation, or if your enemy is loading up on one type of specialty weapon.

You'll still find the AIs defending themselves with only P-shields and firepower, but the phased shields do become available at Tech Level 2.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Or I suppose it might not be an issue if the null-space resistance is built-in to something that ship designers would include anyway, or if the resistance is part of a very cheap, small component....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The resistance comes in the form of Zero KT, 35HP, $400 chunks. And it is not 100% guaranteed on each hit.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Oh, what the heck. This is off topic, but as long as I'm here: How challenging is the AI in P&N? Does it handle all the (very interesting) additions well? I play regularly against only 1 human foe, but I've got, uh, lets see.... 46 races going, so that's quite a bit of AI adjusting if I want to us P&N.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>In general, the new components are not a large advantage. The AI will occasionally use some, but don't expect much difference in their strategies.
AFAIK, nobody has designed an AI for P&N, so they will use their original strategies.
I have tried to build the components around the AI, so that they do not have additional disadvantages.

The AI is probably slightly less challenging in P&N, assuming that you take the "Normal" trait.
Against humans, all is fair game, but against AIs, human players should probably choose "Pirate" of "Nomad".
Using one of the Title RaceTypes is how singleplayer should be played.

It is theoretically possible to win as a Pirate or Nomad, but not likely. You'll have your hands full trying to scrape together enough funds to support even 10 large warships, and you're guaranteed to be behind in tech.

Also, you can download my AIPatcher. A total of ~10 clicks per race, and they'll be playable in P&N.
Note: Be sure to use an engine factor of 45 or higher, otherwise the AIs will cause RCEs when they get Quantum engines and baseships.
Note 2: the patcher does not optimize the AIs. It just makes them so:
- They won't crash when being loaded.
- They will expand, and not act as a "one-planet-neutral"
- They will build ships with a reasonable number of engines.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download the Latest Version of P&N (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/LatestPirates&NomadsModV2.zip)>- (just extract to your SE4 folder)
--<Download my HomeComing scenario (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/HomecomingScenario.zip)>- (For P&N v2.3b)
--<P&N V2 AI patch (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/AIPatchforP&Nv2.zip)>- (V2 only, for the AIs included in ZIPs from v2.0 to v2.3, prevents rare RCEs)
-<Download P&N Classic (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModClassic.zip)>- (The final release of P&N v1.x, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
-<Download my FTL propulsion map (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsFTLmap.MAP)>- (ships can travel FTL StarTrek/B5/StarWars style)
-<Download my LAN helper (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/LANhelper.zip)>- (Auto-searches for new turns on a filesharing-enabled LAN)
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000612.html)>-
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

<SE4Code>
MpN R*-A RM(L) RP+ TCP- Fq++ FR!++ P? A+/- Sf+ Nd- L $ M++++ Pw!+
</SE4Code>

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 21 October 2001).]

Tarquelne

October 22nd, 2001, 04:04 AM

suicide_junkie:

Thanks for all the info!

jimbob

October 24th, 2001, 12:55 AM

Errr...

Sorry to be a bother, had an error message when using Version 2.3c. "File Not Found" was the gist of the message. Happens when attempting to go from set up screen (# players, galaxy type, etc.) to the actual game. Unfortunately the computer wasn't helpful enough to tell me which file(s) I was missing.

Anyone else have difficulties?

Jimbob

Suicide Junkie

October 24th, 2001, 02:11 AM

Were you using extra AIs, or anything?

I use all default graphics (except for BattleMoons/MassiveBaseShip), and the datafiles load before your problem occured, so:
If it is an actual file missing, it's likely to be an AI file...

I will do everything I can to solve your problem, but I do have two exams and a couple projects this week, so I can't do much until the weekend http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif.

I'd suggest downloading the latest (v2.4) anyways.
There was a short period of time (a few hours) when I had a bad Version of P&Nv2.3c posted; If you donloaded it a few weeks ago, you may have gotten that.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001696.html) (forum thread).
-<Download the Latest Version of P&N (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/LatestPirates&NomadsModV2.zip)>- (just extract to your SE4 folder)
--<Download my HomeComing scenario (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/HomecomingScenario.zip)>- (For P&N v2.3b)
--<P&N V2 AI patch (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/AIPatchforP&Nv2.zip)>- (V2 only, for the AIs included in ZIPs from v2.0 to v2.3, prevents rare RCEs)
-<Download P&N Classic (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModClassic.zip)>- (The final release of P&N v1.x, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
-<Download my FTL propulsion map (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsFTLmap.MAP)>- (ships can travel FTL StarTrek/B5/StarWars style)
-<Download my LAN helper (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/LANhelper.zip)>- (Auto-searches for new turns on a filesharing-enabled LAN)
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000612.html)>-
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

<SE4Code>
MpN R*-A RM(L) RP+ TCP- Fq++ FR!++ P? A+/- Sf+ Nd- L $ M++++ Pw!+
</SE4Code>

jimbob

October 25th, 2001, 10:27 PM

Suicide:

Yah, with my luck I probably managed to snag the bad Version of 2.3c.

It'll be some work for me to get v.2.4 cause I need to beg for CD write privelleges. I was hoping it was just one file missing or something. It's all good, I'll just wait till everyone upgrades their mods to v.1.49 and burn me a mega-mod CD.

Thx Jimi

Coal

October 25th, 2001, 11:42 PM

Suicide, when I click on your sig part 'Download latest Version of P&N', Realdownload starts, then stops with the Messages 'Action canceled' and 'File not found on remote host'. Has this already been pointed out, or is there somewhere else I'm supposed to download it from?

------------------
This is it. That moment they told us about in high school, where one day, algebra would save our lives.

'Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?'
Grand Moff Tarkin, just before the Death Star blew.

Brain fart, you win again!

Suicide Junkie

October 25th, 2001, 11:43 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>It'll be some work for me to get v.2.4 cause I need to beg for CD write privelleges. I was hoping it was just one file missing or something. It's all good, I'll just wait till everyone upgrades their mods to v.1.49 and burn me a mega-mod CD.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You don't use a harddrive? And how would you save games without writing to the CD?

Anyways, with the error:
- does it happen every time?
- are you using extra AIs?
- are you using uncommon game settings?

Suicide Junkie

October 26th, 2001, 12:07 AM

Second release of P&N v2.4!

I added two lines to the settings.txt, as described in This thread (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/003991.html).
You may wish to set the "Use Old Log Political Message Display" to false, if you haven't had any problems with it. I have it defaulted to True for compatibility reasons.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Suicide, when I click on your sig part 'Download latest Version of P&N', Realdownload starts, then stops with the Messages 'Action canceled' and 'File not found on remote host'. Has this already been pointed out, or is there somewhere else I'm supposed to download it from?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry, just two characters off in the filename... its fixed now http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

CombatSquirrel

October 26th, 2001, 12:29 AM

S-J,

Just looking over the mod files for P&N 2.4C to learn a little, and I noticed that your ship and fleet training facilities seem to LOSE effectiveness as you progress technologically. Fleet and Ship at first rank (roman numeral I) add +3%, but at 3rd rank (roman numeral III) only add +1%. The same thing happens with the Psychic training facilities.

Is there a reason for this?

Suicide Junkie

October 26th, 2001, 12:36 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Fleet and Ship at first rank (roman numeral I) add +3%, but at 3rd rank (roman numeral III) only add +1%. The same thing happens with the Psychic training facilities.
Is there a reason for this?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yep! That's because the maximum training takes much more time.

You can spend 3 turns in basic training to get 9% (one more turn only gets you to 10%)
OR
You can spend 7 turns in intermediate training to get 14% (one more turn gets you only 15%)
OR
You can go for the advanced training, and take 2 years to get the maximum 20%

CombatSquirrel

October 26th, 2001, 12:48 AM

I thought I was gonna learn something.

You did some really clever things with the Buckytubes too. VERY cool.

Why did you decrease the repair capability of the standard shipyards?

Suicide Junkie

October 26th, 2001, 01:16 AM

Mainly to encourage the use of repair bays, even near construction areas.

You now need both types of components for a major military base (SY to build and retrofit, repair bays to fix stuff)

CombatSquirrel

October 26th, 2001, 01:33 AM

Well, I am getting the biggest kick out of both playing it, and figuring out how it works.

There is alot of thought and work in there. And you've changed everything just enough to throw off any "premade" battle plans from the stock game. The subtle changes in component costs alone threw me out of my game at first...

Thanks!

Suicide Junkie

October 27th, 2001, 04:50 PM

Thanks, CS!

1.49 Patch News:
When you come to the point where you are designing a battlemoon, you may be concerned by the fact that there appears to be no Master Computer ability to prevent Virus/Subverter instant captures.

Fear not! The MC ability partly works: you must still install C&C components (B/CQ/LS, or MC), but the hull's built-in ability still prevents Psy-Capture, even if you don't have a component-based MC.

------------------

I was building a BM lately, and I noticed the fact that a CoreMount Planetary Napalm is the size of an entire BattleShip (800KT), and does 45K damage http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Just imagine a Battleship-sized bomb http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon10.gif!

Fyron

October 27th, 2001, 10:16 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Name := D.U. AutoCannon I
Description := Medium range cannon which rapidly fires small depleted uranium shells.
Pic Num := 155
Tonnage Space Taken := 5
Tonnage Structure := 5
Cost Minerals := 50
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 5
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Sat\WeapPlat
Supply Amount Used := 2
Restrictions := None
General Group := Weapons
Family := 3027
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Projectile Weapons
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Star - Unstable
Ability 1 Descr := +5% accuracy
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := Direct Fire
Weapon Target := Ships\Planets\Ftr\Sat
Weapon Damage At Rng := 3 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Weapon Damage Type := Normal
Weapon Reload Rate := 1
Weapon Display Type := Torp
Weapon Display := 22
Weapon Modifier := 5
Weapon Sound := cannon.wav
Weapon Family := 125
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why does this weapon have the unstable star abilitiy?

------------------
It's not whether you win or lose that counts: it's how much pain you inflict along the way.

Phoenix-D

October 27th, 2001, 10:25 PM

It's used for the description of the + to hit. since it doesn't actually DO anything, it's well-suited to making descriptions.

Phoenix-D

Skulky

October 28th, 2001, 03:17 AM

Random Ideas:

--fighters that can warp, would have other restrictions and the design itself would cost an extreme amount, I have tried this but can't figure out how to make them warp, it isn't an ability but they say that fighters can warp

--mobile bases, i have a design using a satalite as a base

--Detection Station-- level 5 sensor detection, on a small base so it is easy to kill but will be expensive anyway, built in ability, i also have a design on this.

-- a super small unit that has level 4 cloak so only one of the special bases can see it, woul dbe used on deep penetration to drop plauge bombs etc., also i have a design

--A way to do more cool intel projects that would hurt enemy in different ways

--special mines warheads that target only certain things like engines, i know u have tried this before (in ULtimate maybe) but who cares if hte Ai can't use them.

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* SPECIAL IDEA

MM would have to hardcode something in or have an editor that would allow AI editing, to create the actual strategies that hte computer uses.

Also, a full blown scenario editor woudl be nice, so far SuicideJunkie with the Homecoming mod is the only scenario i have seen and i still don't know how he makes it work

------------------
Skulky: a lurking manner

Suicide Junkie

October 28th, 2001, 04:08 AM

1) Got it.
In order to warp, they must be tiny ships, can't be targetted by PD, can't be carried... that's an ES http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

2) Got it.
See BattleMoons http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

3) I thought I had it http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif
Rather than increase sensor power, I'd make mines scale up in cloak strength as tech proceeds.

4) Need it.
An expensive, weak, invisible ship. Forces the enemy to keep its planets defended. Minefields could deter them though...

5) Hardcode.
Need more intel modding options.

6) Got it.
Tachyon/Ion/NullSpace mines. See P&N http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

-----------

The HomeComing Scenario was a game I played right from turn 1 until I got the plasma instability message.
Playing as a neutral was fun, and now you've got to deal with the consequences http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
For the scenario Messages, I just reverse engineered the Tutorial for.

dogscoff

October 28th, 2001, 12:05 PM

Hi S_J,

Just downnloaded the file attached to your post of the 25th, in order to install P&N 2.4

I unzipped the archive straight into my SEIV folder and now I have the SuicideJunkie'sMods folder with folders in it for 2.3b and 2.3c - no 2.4. Oh, and Matryx's mod launcher doesn't seem to read it all correctly, although I thought he had altered it so that it would...

------------------
SE4 Code:
L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M>M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G-
/SE4 Code
Go to my meagre SEIV pages (http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/se4main.htm) to generate your own code.

Suicide Junkie

October 28th, 2001, 04:21 PM

From what I heard, I got the impression he had an option to specify the exact directory of a mod.

Lemme D/L it and see...

EDIT:
Ah, yes. The documentation says:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Also, you can now add mods in other directories (i.e. subdirectories)
There are 2 ways of doing this.
1. Click the Add Mod button in the top left corner of the Mod Selector.
The program will prompt you for a directory, and when you click Add it will update itself, and re-launch to show the new mod.
If it doesn�t show up, make sure the Mod Directory is correct!

or

2. Edit a file called �extmods.txt� and place the paths directly in there. One per line

Note, in both cases, the mod must be in a directory relative to SE4
i.e. Pictures/Combat will try to add the se4\pictures\combat directory as a mod.

I have not tested paths outside of SE4 though you should be able to reference them with �..\..\mods� etc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 28 October 2001).]

Matryx

October 29th, 2001, 02:56 AM

Any news on if this is an actual bug?
does it work.
If not please mail me ->
matryx@matryx.org.uk
I dont have much time to check these Boards anymore but I do have a surprise in store soon (read 2 weeks) http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif
(think 3d screensaver style)

------------------
The Unofficial Space Empires 4 Mod Utility V2.0
------------------
Download as a .ZIP <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.zip)>
Download as a .RAR <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.rar)>
Download as a .ACE <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/SE4Launcher.ace)>
Check a Screenshot of it<HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/Screen.jpg)>

Check an Alpha Shot of my Mod Editor (Unreleased) <HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/Matryx/Alpha.jpg)>

Urendi Maleldil

October 29th, 2001, 05:57 AM

In the Path.txt file you have to type SuicideJunkie'sMods\P&N2.3c or something like that. I don't use it that much, does the mod launcher support subdirectories?

Suicide Junkie

October 29th, 2001, 08:23 AM

See my post below, quoted right from the mod picker's documentation.

The docs say theres a text file to edit, where you can add an arbitrary modpath to the modpicker.
Theres also an option "add mod" to add arbitrary directory modpaths from within the Mod picker.

ZeroAdunn

November 8th, 2001, 08:30 AM

I just noticed something about organic armor, it seems about worthless. Using hardened mini shield generators you get a slightly decreased slightly smaller tonnage structure and a greatly increased defense from shields with a slightly smaller regen. This makes Organic armor about useless. I could be wrong about this though.

[This message has been edited by ZeroAdunn (edited 08 November 2001).]

Phoenix-D

November 8th, 2001, 08:42 AM

"special mines warheads that target only certain things like engines, i know u have tried this before (in ULtimate maybe) but who cares if hte Ai can't use them"

Given enough fiddling, the AI CAN use special-type warheads. The problem would be getting them to use more than one type at once- i.e. explosion OR ion OR distruptor OR AP would be easy- explosive AND ion would be hard.

Phoenix-D

Puke

November 8th, 2001, 12:33 PM

can you create another design type so that there are multiple kinds of mines

(like attack ships and defense ships) that way they would use different kinds of mines for different things?

Suicide Junkie

November 8th, 2001, 08:35 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I just noticed something about organic armor, it seems about worthless. Using hardened mini shield generators you get a slightly decreased slightly smaller tonnage structure and a greatly increased defense from shields with a slightly smaller regen. This makes Organic armor about useless. I could be wrong about this though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The key thing that you've forgotten is that the Organic Armor stores up hitpoints.

By the time your ships are in range, your armor has built up 10 rounds of regen.
In this case, that is enough to repair all your armor once over.

So, take the organic armor hitpoints and double them, then compare it to the HMSGs http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

For warp-point combat, the OA will be at a disadvantage, but it is great at siege warfare, where you could spend 15+ turns getting into range, and have a ton of regen stored.

jimbob

November 8th, 2001, 11:05 PM

Oh!

That's how organic armor works. I've always wondered about it's value. Never bothered to use it.

-Jimbob

ZeroAdunn

November 8th, 2001, 11:12 PM

Organic armor stores up hitpoints? Had no idea.

It's to bad organic armor can't repair other pieces of armor anymore, then it would make it one bad assed component.

Suicide Junkie

November 9th, 2001, 01:52 AM

Wha?
Organic armor will repair other organic armor components, but why would it ever repair regular sheet metal armor?

If you wanted to mod it to do so, all you'd have to do is give the regular armor 0 or 1 organic regen ability.

In P&N, the best armor is either BioCrystal, or PlasmaProjection (Premium mount). Premium mount PPA gives you the best HP/KT, while Biocrystal gives you a healing crystalline effect.
BCA is nearly immune to small weapons fire, while suffering against Massive damage attacks. PPA has the sheer hitpoints to withstand the Massive attacks, but gets worn down from the small blows.

P&N organic armor will provide anywhere from 5 to 20 HP/KT, depending on the rate at which your ship takes damage.

Unmodded SE4 OA provides upto 35 HP/KT!!! Compare that to 5 HP/KT for the best unmodded armor, and 8HP/Kt for the best unmodded shields.

ZeroAdunn

November 9th, 2001, 06:49 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
Wha?
Organic armor will repair other organic armor components, but why would it ever repair regular sheet metal armor?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A while back there was a bug where the regenerate armor ability would regenerate armor even if it didn't have the regen ability, so long as there was a component that had it. It was a bug, it got fixed.

It seems with all these new mods to P&N the organic armor just isn't as usefull as it used to be, and you spend a heck of a lot of points to get it. (yes I know you also get the weapons, but I am a big organic armor fan in case you haven't noticed.)

[This message has been edited by ZeroAdunn (edited 09 November 2001).]

Suicide Junkie

November 9th, 2001, 07:30 AM

I reduced the regen rate because it was just insanely high.
By the time an OA ship entered combat, it could rebuild its armor three times over. That rises higher while you fight.

Essentially, you had to destroy every Last piece of armor in one combat turn in order to get through.

In P&N now, OA is supported by shields and normal armor, since they give you time to build up some regen.

If in doubt, try putting BioCrystal armor on your ships http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

And don't forget OA is dirt cheap (compare with shields and armor by $/HP), and costs all organics, resulting in very short build times.

---------------------
"This is where the proving theorems goes out and the cheating like mad comes in" - I. Munro - My CS240 prof.

-<Download the Latest Version of P&N (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/LatestPirates&NomadsModV2.zip)>- (just extract to your SE4 folder)
--<Download my HomeComing scenario (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/HomecomingScenario.zip)>- (For P&N v2.3b)
--<P&N V2 AI patch (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/AIPatchforP&Nv2.zip)>- (V2 only, for the AIs included in ZIPs from v2.0 to v2.3, prevents rare RCEs)
-<Download P&N Classic (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/Pirates&NomadsModClassic.zip)>- (The final release of P&N v1.x, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/nomadraceEMPs.zip)>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsLatestAIPatcher.zip)>-
-<Download my FTL propulsion map (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/SJsFTLmap.MAP)>- (ships can travel FTL StarTrek/B5/StarWars style)
-<Download my LAN helper (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/suicide_junkie/LANhelper.zip)>- (Auto-searches for new turns on a filesharing-enabled LAN)
Visit My Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/index.html)

Other Links:
-<Play By Web (http://www.pbw.cc/)>-
-<Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)>-
-<8-bit Theater (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/)>-
<SE4Code>
MpN R*-A RM(L) RP+ TCP- Fq++ FR!++ P? A+/- Sf+ Nd- L $ M++++ Pw!+
</SE4Code>

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 11 November 2001).]

jimbob

November 14th, 2001, 01:55 AM

Suicide,

Hey, ummm...
I've been busy as a beaver lately, finally finding out how to mod this game. I figure I've got some niffty stuff, but entirely for one new racial trait (gravity techs). My stuff isn't enough to call a Mod... but I'd love to give it away to someone with a more extensive mod.

Would you be interested in looking at what I've got? It's currently balanced for Ultimate, but HA's dropped off the face of the earth. I'm sure I could rebalance for Pirates.

-jimbob

Suicide Junkie

November 14th, 2001, 04:02 PM

I'd be happy to check it out.
One thing that I will probably do is adjust the descriptions to fit into my universe.

Now, I am swamped with homework this week, so I won't be able to get back to you until this weekend. So take your time.

PS: This sounds like one of the tech tree type traits. Therefore, it will need five crossover techs, one for each of the original racial tech trees.
General suggestions & ideas are sufficient for this; if nothing else, I can make "compressed matter" components ("Delicate balancing of gravitational pressure on a component allows it to be reduced in size").

PS: I would have responded about 12 hours earlier, but the forums were down (access denied error message when writing to the thread)

henk brouwer

November 15th, 2001, 02:45 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by jimbob:
Suicide,

Would you be interested in looking at what I've got? It's currently balanced for Ultimate, but HA's dropped off the face of the earth. I'm sure I could rebalance for Pirates.

-jimbob<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He's back it seems, both www.spaceempires.org (http://www.spaceempires.org) and www.hyperionbase.com (http://www.hyperionbase.com) are back Online.

jimbob

November 20th, 2001, 04:16 AM

Hi,

Well, it's good that you're patient, because life just got a little too busy lately. I don't have internet at home, so I'll bring the files in to work by Wed. and post them here. Most of the components work well, though I didn't make any original art. It seemed to me that there were some unused pictures in the original 'picture' folders.. so I just messed about with them.

-jimbob

Suicide Junkie

November 20th, 2001, 06:01 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Most of the components work well, though I didn't make any original art. It seemed to me that there were some unused pictures in the original 'picture' folders.. so I just messed about with them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's been my method with P&N, too. Most of my components that have similar functions, just use the same picture, but there are a ton of little variants, especially with the armor and shield generator pictures. I find it amazing that I got such great "living ships" component pictures, all original SE4.

Have you got any ideas for the crossover techs?

dogscoff

November 20th, 2001, 01:20 PM

Gravity + Crystalline= ultra-dense crystal tech tree: Slightly more powerful Versions of standard crystal techs. Extremely expensive to research and build.

Gravity + Psychic= Telekinetic gravity well: Really nasty weapon, 100% accuracy, skips shields and armour. Short range, long reload.

Gravity + Psychic + Temporal = Temporal Psychic Gravitic sensors. You can't hide.

Gravity + Organic = MegaFlora Farming. Gigantic plants which could not exist without gravity manipulation are engineered and harvested for organic resources.

Gravity + Organic = High Gravity Infantry. Soldiers engineered to exist in super-high gravity conditions exhibit extraordinary strength in normal gravity.

Gravity + Organic + Religious = High Gravity BioFanatics: Fanatic Version of above. Phear.

Gravity + Big Thinkers: Ultra-sized Weapons Platforms: Gravity Manipulation allows construction of gigantic structures which otherwise could not support their own weight. This technology can be traded to/ stolen by other gravity races.

------------------
SE4 Code:
L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M>M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G-
/SE4 Code
Go to my meagre SEIV pages (http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/se4main.htm) to generate your own code.

Suicide Junkie

November 20th, 2001, 06:13 PM

Crossover techs needed:
Gravity
+Crystalline: Y
+Psychic: ?
+Temporal: N
+Organic: Y(2)
+Religious: ?

I don't want to do 3-ways until I have a crossover for all the 3-ways out there.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Gravity + Organic + Religious = High Gravity BioFanatics<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If we drop the organic requirement, we get High-G Fanatics. How they'd relate to BioFanatics, I'm not sure. Maybe since they have great Grav control, give them built in shields (no armor) and a shield-skipping troop weapon.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Gravity + Psychic= Telekinetic gravity well:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>How would that work in a description sense?
A slightly modified Version: TK GravLance. Skips shields, and maybe armor too. Creates localized spikes of gravitational force, collapsing small bits of the ship's hull. Small component, for lots of moderate-weak hits.
Totally different: a deflector shield. Psychics predict incoming weapons fire, and direct a grav pulse in that direction to deflect it. A shield generator with crytalline ability.

jimbob

November 22nd, 2001, 12:49 AM

Hey,

Well I didn't do any work on the cross-over techs yet. Here's what I've done so far. I could still tweek the art for the black hole generators, etc.

I haven't done the ground-combat troops yet, but I plan to have some anti-grav booster packs or hovercraft or something. I'm hoping to make them space worthy so that they can go from planet to planet on their own... but is it possible?

I like the ideas in the Last few Posts, so I'll try to include as much as possible.

Here are some of the files. You will need to cut and paste to the correct files to run them.

-jimbob

Suicide Junkie

November 22nd, 2001, 01:23 AM

Some good, unique ideas there. Have you tested those black hole weapons yet? I seem to recall the first "0" damage rating defining the max range the weapon will fire at.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I haven't done the ground-combat troops yet, but I plan to have some anti-grav booster packs or hovercraft or something. I'm hoping to make them space worthy so that they can go from planet to planet on their own... but is it possible?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Nope its either a troop or a fighter, not both http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif

Looking at those Space yard facilities, I was thinking that rather than doing an anti-grav idea to get the same effect as a temporal space yard, why not add gravity to orbital stations, so they're just as effective as planet based ones!
Different, but good (if not better). It also allows you to combine temporal and grav to get temporal space yards on bases.
...
Which fills in that crossover gap, too!

jimbob

November 22nd, 2001, 02:04 AM

Black hole generators,
Yeah, they do work... at least when they're put on ships (Though I made them for Weaponplatforms, I tested them on ships because nobody would come after my planets).

Space Yards,
I must admit that I was disappointed to be beaten to the punch by the temporal space yards. Having never tried the temporal racial trait out, I initially thought I had an original idea! Oh well... http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
I kinda like the space elevator thing, but ultimately (no pun intended) it will be in your mod. The key factor to me was the _repair_ capacity of the station (bringing up whole components from the ground) and the space port/resupply station aspects. The build rate was an afterthought really. How about the space elevator giving normal build rate + boosted repair/resupply/space port, and the cross over facility giving all of that plus the higher build rate of the temporal space yard. Of course the resource cost to build the space elevator facility should come down a great deal.

Orbital Space Yards
That would be good, except that the space stations etc. can be built in non-planet locations. I envisioned lifting components fabricated on the planet into space with relative ease and speed. Improved Space Yards in deep space seems counter-intuitive.

my $.028 (Cdn funds)
-jimbob

Suicide Junkie

November 22nd, 2001, 02:18 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>How about the space elevator giving normal build rate + boosted repair/resupply/space port, and the cross over facility giving all of that plus the higher build rate of the temporal space yard.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Combined Resupply and Spaceport abilities would make the facility very valuable. Added repair would be good too. In P&N, repair rates are decreased, so giving it normal repair rates would be sufficient.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>That would be good, except that the space stations etc. can be built in non-planet locations. I envisioned lifting components fabricated on the planet into space with relative ease and speed. Improved Space Yards in deep space seems counter-intuitive.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I was thinking more along the lines of having your tools not float away, even big stuff staying where you put it. General improvement in efficiency, probably not all the way up to a planet-based yard, but better than everybody else.

----------------

I could also make the PD repulsor beam require Grav tech. It would only make sense.

jimbob

November 22nd, 2001, 02:55 AM

Quote: "I was thinking more along the lines of having your tools not float away, even big stuff staying where you put it. General improvement in efficiency, probably not all the way up to a planet-based yard, but better than everybody else."

Good point.
Plus astronauts would finally have working bathrooms -- improved morale.

-jimbob

Suicide Junkie

November 22nd, 2001, 04:18 AM

Now we just have to make sure that this tech tree dosen't become to valuable, since the price should stay around 1500 points.

Skulky

November 25th, 2001, 09:48 PM

Sounds like a great set of ideas, i have not played through the entire P&N tech treee but i think that a base only component that acts like a supply base with the ability 'supply generation.' Could be available as a special tech combo for 2 types or for one. 'Gravitational Suppply Generator" or "Bio-Grav Supply Factory." Expensive seeing as it can offer remote supply until you get sufficent tech to have supply at infinite.

Name := Supply Generator
Description := Component that produces supplies
Pic Num := 117 (other prob)
Tonnage Space Taken := 500
Tonnage Structure := 250
Cost Minerals := 600
Cost Organics := 600
Cost Radioactives := 400
Vehicle Type := Base
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Cargo
Family := 14
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Cargo
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Supply Generation
Ability 1 Descr := Provides remote Supply generation
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Also, coudl do something similar for a spaceport.

Skulky

November 25th, 2001, 10:44 PM

1 more thought. Actually 2.

1st off. For anyone who has read any Larry Niven with the Ringworlds you would know that SE4 ringworlds are not realsitic at all. They should be built about 1 AU out The Astronomical Unit is the average distance between the Sun and Earth. Its value is 149,597,870 km (about 93 million miles). and should be a ring. IF you do the math you will get at 1 per sq mile (earth is at 104) and 3/4 water with ring 200 miles wide 29,203,000,000. A sphere world will be 27,146,000,000,000,000 with the same 3/4 and 1 sq/mile. 27 QUADRILLION PEOPLE. RANGE CHECK ERROR. But think of the production bonuses (once you programed it that high of course). Something should be done to fix the 32/64 billion problem.

2nd thing. Damn, took so long to do the first i forgot the second ill get back to that.

If you want the full excel document with the calcs and additional possibilites email me at chocolatefro@angelfire.com

Thanks for reading

Suicide Junkie

November 26th, 2001, 05:44 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>SE4 ringworlds are not realsitic at all. <hr></blockquote>I think that everybody accepts that SE4 is not realistic in many ways.
eg: Speed = thrust, regardless of mass or time spent accelerating.

The ring/spheres are reasonably balanced.
Sure you have puny capacities, but you don't have to use up the mass of all your planets to create one, either.

In the end, its a cool idea, and becomes a glory prize in either case. (If you can build a Dyson Sphere, you've won already)

<blockquote>quote:<hr>base only component that acts like a supply base <hr></blockquote>Currently, bases have infinite supply (hardcoded). To resupply any ships, you just put them in a fleet with the base, and they share the supplies. Infinity divided among a fleet of ships equals maximum storage for each http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

When/if I can find a safe way to convert bases into immovable ships, I will give them solar generation abilities plus storage. That way you'll have to buiild a bunch of power stations to feed your army supplies.

jimbob

November 26th, 2001, 11:13 PM

The Grav. saga,

OK, so I've done some artwork for the gravity based components (some good, some bad). But when I drop the images into the proper folders they only show up occassionally. The pictures are fine in the "you have discovered" pop up menu. They don't however show up in combat (just a white box) or in the ship design page (but do appear in the pop up menu if you right click on the components). What do I need to do to make this work?

Thx
-jimbob

Suicide Junkie

November 26th, 2001, 11:33 PM

Sounds like you just messed up the Mini image.
Check the Components.BMP (it seems that comp####.BMP is OK)
Counting images "as you read", (and starting at "0") the picture in position WXYZ should be the mini for compWXYZ.BMP.

jimbob

November 27th, 2001, 01:12 AM

Mini-images http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Thanks

-jimbob

jimbob

December 1st, 2001, 12:24 AM

Slightly embarassed that it's taking me so long to finish off the grav. tech thing. I need to make the mini-images, and then I'm done. I'm going to try to balance things against the other weapons and shields of P&N.. the shield power seems to climb pretty high in the later game. Another Version for Ultimate (again, balance issues only).

I still think that the "gravity tech tree" is a little sparce as compared to the Organic and Religious tech trees. I'm hoping that there are some more good ideas out there for the gravity guys. Larger sized troops? I like the mega farm idea (giant plants) but just haven't incorporated it yet. Art help would be great for the troops, if done at all.

I was thinking of really expensive gravimetric mines and pop-up black hole mines. Seems to fit with my "defensive posture" view of this special tech area.

I've got some exams, so probably done next Wed.

Phoenix-D

December 1st, 2001, 12:52 AM

"When/if I can find a safe way to convert bases into immovable ships,"

Well..make them into ships, don't allow any engines. That part is easy enough, and for players would work right. The problem is getting the AI to figure out WTF these things are, and more to the point using them as intended.

Phoenix-D

Suicide Junkie

December 1st, 2001, 08:10 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>I'm going to try to balance things against the other weapons and shields of P&N.. the shield power seems to climb pretty high in the later game<hr></blockquote>Don't worry about the defenses, just balance with the weapons.
Eg: the heavy shield generators at the top of shield tech are not phased, so anyone who goes for the big hitpoint boost takes a big risk as well.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Well..make them into ships, don't allow any engines. That part is easy enough, and for players would work right. The problem is getting the AI to figure out WTF these things are, and more to the point using them as intended.<hr></blockquote>The other problem is with emergency movement. I don't want bases wandering around http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

As for the AI problems, once I get enough ideas, I'll split off a new, "humans-only" branch of P&N. It'll include stuff like "no unlimited supply generation", where even resupply depots are out. Every drop of supply will have to be gathered like a resource.

dumbluck

December 1st, 2001, 01:44 PM

Possible grav tech idea

Gravimetric Drive: an efficient engine (uses fewer supplies, or possible has more movement points?)

edit:
(irreverently stolen from another mod I can't remember the name of offhand)

Intuitive Warp Point Knowledge: Short range warp point opener. (Possible a WP closer as well?)

[ 01 December 2001: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

Suicide Junkie

December 1st, 2001, 03:48 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Intuitive Warp Point Knowledge: Short range warp point opener. (Possible a WP closer as well?)<hr></blockquote>How about making it a series of 1000 KT WP openers, so they fit on baseships, and having all the normal tech WP manipulators be 1500KT starbase-only components?

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Gravimetric Drive: an efficient engine (uses fewer supplies, or possible has more movement points?)<hr></blockquote>Rather than either of those (P&N covers a LOT of range in those categories), make it smaller than the normal engines, say 7KT.
Just make four levels of grav-drive, corresponding to Ion/CT/JP/Quantum. Supply use of 6 (compared to 10,8,6), thrust of 5 (compared to 3,4,5,6).
That gives a speed/KT of 0.72 vs Quantum's 0.6, and you pay a bit more in fuel (since you need more engines)
If you follow the pattern of "1 less thrust than normal tech", the Grav drives beat all except ion engines. However, they do still save on fuel when you're at Ion I's or II's.

Notes:
- Propulsion tech 1, 4, 7, 10 should be required along with the grav tech to get the grav engine. That way, other players can get engine tech when they capture, and research costs are reasonable.
- Don't forget to make Armored Versions of the engine ($5 per hitpoint, 20 additional HP for normal engines)
- There is an unused engine image already in place, are you going to use that?

dumbluck

December 2nd, 2001, 06:09 AM

Hey, it's your mod, do whatever you think fits. I was just throwing some ideas out because jimbob mentioned the tech area looked a little sparse. I personally like your ideas about the grav engine. However, I don't think that limiting normal WP tech to base sized vessels. It limits normal SM stategies too much, IMHO. Or was that the point? "you wanna have moving WP techs? Spend racial points on the tech!"

But then, I think a lot of people would take the grav racial just for the WP abilities.... that's not what you want, is it? Personally, I think that a smaller, shorter range WP opener available early in the tech tree would be best. I think that a WP closer shouldn't be available till midgame.

[ 02 December 2001: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

Skulky

December 3rd, 2001, 03:42 AM

I don't, but people claim to, play the not connected game feature. If a warp point opener was available earlier on in the grav tech taht could add some new life to what appears to be a boring mode of play, could also add some excitement eraly on as people closeoff systems and warp others together (open up dead end systems), this soundslike a great idea.

edit: I also thought that it would be cool to be able to create systems (hardcode obviously) but hten people couild actually add systems to the game, the pinnacle of stellar manipulation (might require multiple racial techs (grav, temporal, organic?) would be expensive ot build, might be base only component? would have to have asteroid creation or towing too to put planets in sucha system. (asteroid creation/towing now thats a thought, i know SJ already talked about towing or moving ships and asteroids). MM needs to hardcode the towing ability. could also destabilize a warp point by moving an asteroid through it (towing, not carrying in cargo like you are supposed to do for asteroid movement). that was all random but whatever.

[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: Skulky ]

CombatSquirrel

December 3rd, 2001, 06:26 AM

I've also thought about how cool it would be to use some kind of towing ability. Also, the ability to hold an enemy vehicle immobile by tractor beam could be really awesome for some strategies... things perhaps for the Grand Future.

S-J,
Looking through the Components.txt file for P&N, I have another couple of questions.
1)You have assigned a 1 point supply cost for your solar sails. Is this just to keep them from giving free movement when out of supplies?
2)Solar Sail I grants 1 Standard Movement, Solar Sail II grants 2 Extra Movement, and Solar Sail III grants 3 Standard Movement. This one still has me baffled.

CombatSquirrel

Suicide Junkie

December 3rd, 2001, 07:23 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>2)Solar Sail I grants 1 Standard Movement, Solar Sail II grants 2 Extra Movement, and Solar Sail III grants 3 Standard Movement. This one still has me baffled.<hr></blockquote>Damn. That's one heck of an exploitable bug. Thanks for pointing it out.

I'll have a fix for you in a sec.
I'm gonna have to update PBW, too...

EDIT: Sig's updated to the new file now.
EDIT2: Unfortunately, the new file upload system dosen't allow for an automatically updated "Latest Version" link, as I've had in the past http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif (this edit is to update the sig)

[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]

dumbluck

December 3rd, 2001, 10:57 AM

Here's another tech idea for you, SJ. At the very top of the missle tree (and maybe dependant on another tech?), place a component that decreases reload rate by 1 for all seekers. (or maybe it would fit better into the Temporal Tech tree?) Would that be possible? I vaguely recall a comp (in the psychic tree?) that INCREASES reload time, could this be given a negative affect to achieve this? It would be cool for us missle loving fools....

Spyder

December 3rd, 2001, 03:01 PM

This thread is the oldest thread I've ever seen http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I was one of the original posters back in March...wow http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Suicide Junkie

December 3rd, 2001, 08:19 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>I vaguely recall a comp (in the psychic tree?) that INCREASES reload time, could this be given a negative affect to achieve this? It would be cool for us missle loving fools<hr></blockquote>Maybe, but it was a weapon, and you could only fire your reload-decreasing weapon on enemies.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Here's another tech idea for you, SJ. At the very top of the missle tree (and maybe dependant on another tech?), place a component that decreases reload rate by 1 for all seekers. (or maybe it would fit better into the Temporal Tech tree?)<hr></blockquote>Well, I would rather not add to one of the original racial techs and throw the value off. I'd put them into normal tech.

So, what do you guys think about:
- Mini-missiles. Reload 2, slightly less range than CSM, half size, slightly lower power rating. Best for providing cover for fighters, not powerful enough to win ship to ship battles.
- Digger Missiles. Drills into the ship's hull before exploding. Larger size, and slower, but packs an armor-piercing punch. Provide lots of cover from PD for best effect.
- Radiation Bomb. Kills off crew, once shields are down. Lifesupport, Boarding Parties, and Security Forces are all affected. Expanded Automation ships will not be slowed down (EA bridge has an independent lifesupport system)
Living ships can lose any of their organic components, and Organic-tech weapons & armor will be affected. Organic armor may provide protection to the internals, but I'm not sure.
Damage rating will be moderately low (compared to slice&dice weapons, moderate-high for an "only x" weapon), shields will protect a ship, and possibly O.A. will too.
A beam Version should be available, but it will have even lower damage.
- Burrowing Seeker Spores. Organic races get a 2-reload digger missile, to compensate them for the Rad-bomb vulnerability.

A combined attack with mini-missiles, CSM shield-busters, then Diggers or Rads will be very devastating, assuming you can pierce the PD.

jimbob

December 4th, 2001, 01:56 AM

Dumbluck,

Thanks for the ideas. The early game, short-range warp points are a good idea. I think I'll put them starbase only to give a sort of "warp gate" feel (and to reduce the power of this early WP technology). Optimally the warp hole would close if the gate was destroyed, but that can't be done in SE IV to my knowledge.

The gravometric drive thing is a good idea. I was trying to get that feel through the inertial dampners though. I figure reducing the gravity/inertial effects would make propulsion easier, but is not a form of propulsion in and of itself (yeah, I know, gravity and inertia are separate phenomenon... I claim poetic license http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

I've also added an 'insta-black hole' component for medium to large mines... just add enemy starships and mix well. They're powerful, but not grotesquely (sp) so.

Quote: "Radiation Bomb. Kills off crew, once shields are down. Lifesupport, Boarding Parties, and Security Forces are all affected. Expanded Automation ships will not be slowed down (EA bridge has an independent lifesupport system)
Living ships can lose any of their organic components, and Organic-tech weapons & armor will be affected."

Wait a second, can you assign multiple types of damage to a single weapon? I was hoping to make a neurotoxin thingy for Biological warfare that would knock out security and boarding parties with one shot. This can be done?!

Edit: do ya think it will be too late for any of this gravity stuff to make the Gold Edition?

[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: jimbob ]

Phoenix-D

December 4th, 2001, 03:39 AM

"I'll put them starbase only to give a sort of "warp gate" feel (and to reduce the power of this early WP technology)."

Er, if you want to make them "early game" putting them on a starbase isn't the way to go, IMO.

9/10 I get WP manipulation waaaaaaaaaaay before I get starbases.

Phoenix-D

Suicide Junkie

December 4th, 2001, 07:00 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Wait a second, can you assign multiple types of damage to a single weapon? I was hoping to make a neurotoxin thingy for Biological warfare that would knock out security and boarding parties with one shot. This can be done?!<hr></blockquote>There is a "only security stations" damage type. Just use that, and give boarding parties a small ability for boarding defense (thier attack ability already gets added to defense, and you don't want to make them too powerful defending)
That way, once the shields are down, everybody dies from your poison.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Er, if you want to make them "early game" putting them on a starbase isn't the way to go, IMO.<hr></blockquote>How about just making them very massive (500+ KT), and super-expensive (cost to build, or increases maintenance by 10x?)

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Edit: do ya think it will be too late for any of this gravity stuff to make the Gold Edition?<hr></blockquote>I'm just hoping my bugfix yesterday will make it, but I'm not expecting it too.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>I've also added an 'insta-black hole' component for medium to large mines... just add enemy starships and mix well. They're powerful, but not grotesquely (sp) so.<hr></blockquote>Black holes light enough to avoid being obvious would nessesarily have a very short range. Putting them on mines is a good idea. IMO, almost any singularity projectile should do Quad2Shields & Armor-skipping damage. Since we can't combine the two, I want to go with armor-skipping (for mod balance) (The MSG projectors should be converted for the next Version of P&N)

Phoenix-D

December 4th, 2001, 07:02 PM

Hmm.

I wonder if boarding parties will fit on Drones.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

jimbob

December 5th, 2001, 01:06 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr> Black holes light enough to avoid being obvious would nessesarily have a very short range. Putting them on mines is a good idea. <hr></blockquote>

I thought just the standard 'range 1' for the mines. Would an increase in range have an effect?

<blockquote>quote:<hr> IMO, almost any singularity projectile should do Quad2Shields & Armor-skipping damage. Since we can't combine the two, I want to go with armor-skipping (for mod balance) (The MSG projectors should be converted for the next Version of P&N) <hr></blockquote>

I really wish it were possible to have multiple effects per weapon.. this is one of my biggest hopes for SEV (may God, or Arron, grant us the sequel). Because of this limitation, the planetary black hole projectors do quad damage to the ships, but don't skip armor. I was initially intending the mine generated black holes to just do normal damage. Should the mine generated black holes have an ability that isn't shared by the more powerful planetary generated black holes?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: jimbob ]

[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: jimbob ]

jimbob

December 5th, 2001, 01:46 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr> 9/10 I get WP manipulation waaaaaaaaaaay before I get starbases. <hr></blockquote>

Really? I haven't played multiplayer enough to realize that. I bet you'd kick my butt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
OK, it'll either be an incentive to get starbase, or maybe I'll make the component fit on something smaller than a starbase.

Here's a question. Will the Gravity Manipulation defense components (gravity lens family) stack with the ECM family? How about with the stealth armor family? I assumed that it would, and that bonuses could stack past 100%...

i.e. Gravity Lens X = 30% defense bonus
ECM Y = 60% defense bonus
Stealth Armor Z = 15% defense bonus
Total = 105% defense bonus

vs.

Enemy Sensors N = 60% attack bonus
Enemy experience = 20% attack bonus
Total = 80% attack bonus

105% - 80% = 25% defense bonus

Edit: according to latin pluralization rules, more than one bonus should be boni

[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: jimbob ]

Phoenix-D

December 5th, 2001, 02:08 AM

"Here's a question. Will the Gravity Manipulation defense components (gravity lens family) stack with the ECM family? How about with the stealth armor family?"

Yes. If I remember correctly, it either goes by family or the second ability number defines what stacks and what doesn't.

Phoenix-D

jimbob

December 7th, 2001, 09:49 PM

All Righty Then...

I've posted this to teh Ultimate thread, but then I had some problems with the Forum, did it go down yesterday?

Regardless, here are the Gravity Racial Techs and Components for P&N and Ultimate "Universes" respectively. Each mini-mod has been slightly tweaked to fit into it's new host Universe, so there are some minor differences.

1007679226.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1007679226.zip)
AND
1007679334.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1007679334.zip)

Enjoy,
-jimbob

Suicide Junkie

December 8th, 2001, 03:52 AM

Alright. I've got an exam tomorrow, but I'll load 'em up after that.

PS: you can rename your url-tags. Use

[ 09 December 2001: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]

Torkle

December 8th, 2001, 09:13 PM

I noticed that the VehicleSize.txt file for P&N 2.4c has 'Requirement Max Engines' set to 99 instead of the old value of 42. Has the 256 movement point limit been removed?

[ 08 December 2001: Message edited by: Torkle ]

Suicide Junkie

December 9th, 2001, 05:59 AM

No, that's hardcode. You'll get RCE's if you try to add a 43'rd Quantum engine, but you can add up to 84 ion engines without a problem (besides lack of hull space).

Players just have to realize that the RCE means you have too many engines.

Phoenix-D

December 9th, 2001, 06:23 AM

Does that affect the AI in any way? I presume not, since they can make ships with two spaceyards, etc..

The engine limit only really functions as an "idiot check" before, then?

Phoenix-D

Suicide Junkie

December 9th, 2001, 07:08 AM

Yep. In fact, with a limit of 42 engines you would get the RCE before the "too many engines" warning appeared. It really seemed pointless.

In regards to the AIs, they just try to make about 30% of their hull full of engines, and that works out to 41 engines at most, on a baseship http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

[ 09 December 2001: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]

Suicide Junkie

December 9th, 2001, 07:47 PM

JimBob: a few comments on what I've seen:

Images: You altered component image #130, which happens to be the one I use for Plasma Projection Armor. I will be moving this to image # 283, which is free.
All the other images were added to the empty image slots, so they're OK.

"Halo" PD seems quite overpowered, since it has more range than PDLs and more damage than PDCs, all in a 20KT package.
PDCs have 75 @ range 2
PDLs have 40 @ range 8
Do you want to reduce the damage, the range or a bit of both?

The black hole projector has the lowest damage rating in the game (0.16) That will have to be improved. I want to reduce the reload to 5-7 or so, and by the next Version, all black hole weapons will do armor skipping rather than quad2shield.

Inertal dampers will have some funny effects with the QNP in the game... I want to make them part of the ship hull itself, so I can assign a lower EPM rating, rather than a fixed constant speed boost.

Grav lenses look great, though I may have to lower the top end component's effects.

Tractor/Repulsor beams nice. They'll be called "Advanced" rather than "Type B"

And those Warp gates will turn out nicely once I tweak the normal tech manip techs.

jimbob

December 10th, 2001, 09:42 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr> Images: You altered component image #130, which happens to be the one I use for Plasma Projection Armor. I will be moving this to image # 283, which is free. <hr></blockquote>

And I thought I'd checked all the free images. That one slipped by somehow. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif I hope it won't look to strange to have ships warping through a giant Version of your Plasma Projection Armor. I don't know, maybe no one will mind.

<blockquote>quote:<hr> "Halo" PD seems quite overpowered, since it has more range than PDLs and more damage than PDCs, all in a 20KT package... Do you want to reduce the damage, the range or a bit of both? <hr></blockquote>

How about PDGs (Point Def. Gravity). Yeah, I guess I didn't downsize them enough for the P&N Universe. My vision was of a PD that was powerful, but that had a highly unique Achilles heel - it has a nonfiring zone (it cannot fire at objects immediately next to itself). Once the enemy moves within this range, s/he can pop off as many missiles as they want. The enemy just needs to set their fleet strategy to 'point blank range' and may the fastest ship win (read WPlats and Space Stations lose). Additionally, I think the cost of the device is considerably higher than for PDCs and PDLs. My suggestions would be to keep the long range (and the nonfiring zone) but modify the damage and cost (which is quite high) of the device.

<blockquote>quote:<hr> The black hole projector has the lowest damage rating in the game (0.16) That will have to be improved. I want to reduce the reload to 5-7 or so, and by the next Version, all black hole weapons will do armor skipping rather than quad2shield. <hr></blockquote>

Never worked out the ratio... boy, they sure suck!! (and they're expensive too) I strongly agree that their attack value should be increased. I'd suggest increasing the damage level rather than decreasing the reload time. Again, the Achilles heel is the nonfiring zone - once the enemy closes with the planet, a higher reload rate won't matter. Then again, if the Advanced Repulsor beams can push ships back into the firing zone...
(can a weapons platform push a ship? what are the rules on repulsor/tractor beams anyway?)

<blockquote>quote:<hr> Inertal dampers will have some funny effects with the QNP in the game... I want to make them part of the ship hull itself, so I can assign a lower EPM rating, rather than a fixed constant speed boost. <hr></blockquote>

Brilliant! I never even considered changing the EPM Ratings.

Suicide Junkie

December 10th, 2001, 10:17 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>(can a weapons platform push a ship? what are the rules on repulsor/tractor beams anyway?)<hr></blockquote>For ship-ship beams, you can only affect equal or smaller sized ships. Since the platform is planet based, it should be able to push anything around (or we would have heard complaints by now).

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Once the enemy moves within this range, s/he can pop off as many missiles as they want.<hr></blockquote>The only problem is that missiles suck at close range combat, compared to beam weapons. And with a fleet, you'd get a lot of overlapping fire, leaving almost no deadzones.
Also, you have the halo doing normal damage; have you though about making it a PD repulsor? If it was a repulsor, firing a missile amidst a fleet of enemy ships would cause them to bounce it around inside, wasting a lot of PDR shots, thus enhancing the central "dead zone" effect even with fleets of ships.
One of the other cool effects of a PDR is that they can reduce the damage from plasma & polaron missiles, even if they can't stop them completely http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<blockquote>quote:<hr>I never even considered changing the EPM Ratings<hr></blockquote>Ok, so how much should the effect be, % wise? Also, should the effect be rounded down for the smaller ships?

jimbob

December 13th, 2001, 12:45 AM

OK, so they've written the final exam, now I just have to mark it. And you know what that means...
procrastination!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

So now that I finally have some spare time,

<blockquote>quote:<hr>have you though about making it a PD repulsor? If it was a repulsor, firing a missile amidst a fleet of enemy ships would cause them to bounce it around inside, wasting a lot of PDR shots, thus enhancing the central "dead zone" effect even with fleets of ships. <hr></blockquote>

That's a good idea. The player would start opting for the more spaced out formations - finally a reason for them (me, I'm a 'wall' formation kinda guy). I like things that make us play the game differently, so I'm sold!

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Ok, so how much should the effect be, % wise? Also, should the effect be rounded down for the smaller ships? <hr></blockquote>

My thoughts on this are that the "device" (even if built into the hull) should be able to 'negate' the effects of a finite amount of mass. (someone in another thread wondered how a single 10kt armour could protect a massive battlecruiser as effectively as it does a tiny escort - good pt.) So I think that these devices should actually have a greater mass neutralizing effect on the small ships than on the larger ones.

Your ratio seems to be a linear relationship of one 'movement point' per 50ktons (assuming the engines are the basic ones, no bonus movement).
Unfortunately, at the smaller sizes calculations get messy because fraction numbers are not allowed. So here is my suggestion...

....................Current....# Engines....# Engines
Ship.....Mass...# Engines...with IN 1....with IN 2
Escort....150.......3......2(=33% bonus)...1(66)
Frigate...200.......4.........2(50)........2(50)
Destroyer.300.......6.........4(33)........3(50)
LCruiser..400.......8.........6(25)........4(50)
Cruiser...500......10.........7(30)........6(40)
BCruiser..600......12.........9(25)........8(33)
BShip.....800......16........12(25).......11(31)
DredN....1000......20........16(20).......15(25)
Baseshp..1500......30........25(17).......24(20)

Thus there are diminishing returns as the ship gets bigger. I think this will encourage the player to play some of the smaller ships (Cruisers), which sort of get forgotten by most in the later game anyway. Again, I think that this would add something new to the game, the reuse of the small ship designs in the late game.

I'd also suggest distributing the various bonuses due to manouverability (ie defensive) in a similar manner, that the very small are now hyper manouverable (even if they don't have the high speed) due to their lowered apparent mass, while the larger ships would gain less manouverability, so should have less of a defensive bonus. The negative bonuses should be the same for all ship sizes because it affects the physiology/psychology of the crew.

Hope this is of some help,

[ 12 December 2001: Message edited by: jimbob ]

[ 12 December 2001: Message edited by: jimbob ]