KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!

[Darkwind]

cleveland said:

Xietor said:
...MA Eriu, and MA Marignon.


Not for long... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I agree. Soon MA Eriu will be replaced with MA Ulm. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif

Say, just wondering, but where did the O'Giantslayers go? Still hiding in Ulm proper?

[DonCorazon]

Utgard rangers report tons of piles of Froot Loops in our woodlands. Methinks the O'Giantlsayers are back in Utgard. We are breaking out the sunglass and white cane inventory.

[Xietor]

War has raged in the Eastern half of the world as well, but none of the heavy hitters are over here.

Bogarus, ma tien chi, ea ulm, ea abysia, la arcos, ma bandar log, LA Man, EA formoria. Mostly been one big pillow fight.
Hard to put anyone away with hoplites and slingers!

Had Niefel or Lanka started out over here, they likely would have owned 10 capitals by now.

[sum1lost]

Fomoria, EA abysia, and bandar log can all get pretty solid bless/rushes going.

[Xietor]

Actually bandar log did dispatch EA Ulm fairly quickly. EA Abysia does have a wicked bless, but has sat in his capital too long i think at this point. Looks like he will die a dominion death in the next 5-10 turns.

Formoria seems to be doing well against Bogarus. But none of these races is Niefel or lanka.

[Meglobob]

Over in the west, we have Helheim, Lanka, La Agartha, Ma Arco, Ea Mictlan, Ma Ctis and Ea Kailasa in close'ish proximity to one another. All are medium sized powers to large powers, resulting in a stalemate.

If any move against each another, it is likely to end in there own destruction as well. Even if one nation starts a war and wins, it will be so weakened its neighbours will take all the spoils.

Perhaps the only exceptions are Helheim who might have room to manuveur in the SW and perhaps the formidable alliance that La Agartha and Ma Arco have. Those may end up coming out on top in time.

Still, its hard to see any kind of winner coming from this area of the world.

[cleveland]

I must say, I don't understand the turtle/trade mentality DC alluded to. You sign up for a war-game and don't fight any wars for 3 real-life months? Bizarre.

True story: A long time ago, I played dodge ball in an "L"-shaped gym. One guy hid along the inner walls of the L all-game, every-game...never put himself at risk of being hit. Consequently, he won probably 50% of the games. But, Jesus, how boring is that? Playing dodge-ball, and never actually dodging a ball?

Don't get me wrong, I like to win. But I save that must-win-at-all-costs mentality for the stock market and the craps table. This is just a game, why not take some risks and have some fun?

[JimMorrison]

I would tend to absolutely disagree, in a large number of cases.

First, your analogy is a bit flawed - this player you allude to sounds like much more of a stealthy raider, than a turtler. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

But it's a simple fact, some nations in the game start out of the gate with more overt strength. Others are not as immediately capable, and must rely on strength in numbers, research, etc to gain a decisive victory. There is a large gamble in turtling in this scenario. With the victory conditions the way they are, someone could theoretically just sit there while an opponent they can't even see wins the game.

There are many styles of nations in this game, and many styles of players - the very fact that you have trouble discerning their motives, means some of them are definitely doing something right. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[atul]

Xietor said:
Had Niefel or Lanka started out over here, they likely would have owned 10 capitals by now.

But Niefelheim DID start on eastern continent!

The order of nations LA Arco has proposed is flawed! For no-one has considered the awesome power of markata provincial defence! Added to that, the highest research among true astral nations! And remember, should you want precioussssss ringsssss of powerzzzzzz, there's only one nation to turn to!

[Xietor]

Tis true Niefel is on the Eastern Continent, but they are not in our neighborhood Atul. Thankfully.

That said, there are not many new players in our neighborhood, EA Ulm being one exception. And the nations with no bless had sc pretenders that may have made a rush difficult.

Llamabeast and LA Ctis are almost dead, and once he is dead, I will have him, time permitting, give us an update on who has how many capitals.

I doubt anyone has more than 4 yet, but who knows? 15 is still a long ways off for the eventual winner. I also foresee a powerful land race going for all 6 of the water race capitals. Then only needing 9 on land.

[cleveland]

Jim:
You tend to absolutely disagree with what, exactly?

Sure, different nations have different strengths. Irrelevant.

I'm asking about the human psychology of joining a war-game and staying out of war. Do people really find that fun?

[Twan]

The question is : is this kind of MP a wargame ?

It's as much a diplomacy game actually, with some players spending ten times more time sending messages than giving orders, and in some areas situations making the game looking like Europa Universalis 3, with guarantees in addition to alliances and NAPs (things like A threatening B of breaking his NAP with him if he attacks C, because A need the help of C in case D attack him).

[Xietor]

The game does require diplomacy. In the last Big Game diplomacy failed, and the 2 super races gobbled up great chunks of the map until they were near unstoppable(la Ryleh and LA Ermor). Having these races in the game REQUIRES diplomacy for the lesser races to have a chance to win.

If you are playing in a Big Game and you draw a race like MA Man for instance, and your neighbor is EA Lanka and he attacks you, well the best part of MA Man's game is the early game.

That said, MA Man, all other things being equal, has no shot of beating off Lanka. Lighting only gets you so far.
And longbows just make the lanka sacreds mad.

So really, diplomacy is your best option in that situation.
Find another of lanka's neighbors and say, "When I am gone, which will not be too far into the future if i do not get help, who do you think will be next on the menu?"

But peace is boring.

[JimMorrison]

cleveland said:
Jim:
You tend to absolutely disagree with what, exactly?

Sure, different nations have different strengths. Irrelevant.

I'm asking about the human psychology of joining a war-game and staying out of war. Do people really find that fun?




What I tend to disagree with, is your assertion that people are just avoiding war either out of aversion to the MP conflict (maybe a few total newbies who are intimidated by the scope of the megagame, I doubt it's many), or because they are just plain scared to fight their neighbors.

It is absolutely relevant that some nations are better in the late game. Just as for example, Lanka and Niefelheim burst out of the gate and went straight to war - they are both doing well because they are exploiting the strength of their nations. If someone has a late game strong nation, particularly one who is not even very good in early game, then they are intelligently playing this strategy game by investing their time and effort into reaching that late game first, rather than slowing down the evolution of their nation by pissing resources into a war that won't go entirely fast - possible enticing another neighbor to attack them in their weakened and overextended state.

My point is that there is very little "psychology of joining a *strategy game* and -staying out of war-" involved in all of this. Maybe 3-4 people who feel lost in this sea of carnage and intrigue, and just don't want to invite someone to kill them off yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

To prove my point, you've been hard at war for some time now Cleveland, how many capitals do you own? It's one thing to come out with both guns blazing because that is the way your nation succeeds. It's another thing to run amok like a bull in a china shop until all of your neighbors band together to put you down like Old Yeller. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif


So then I pose to you this question - How does the human psychology work, to join a large scale strategy game like this, with no overarching strategic intent to win, but rather to just enjoy yourself until you lose? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

You're fine to play how you like Cleveland, I think everyone enjoys what you bring to the table. But implying there is some psychological deficiency in people who are - with rational and clear reason - playing close to the chest, well that's a bit rough. <3

[DonCorazon]

Wow JM you extract a lot of meaning from a few words.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
I think cleveland just suggested staying out of war for 3 months is kind of boring - that's all.

[JimMorrison]

Well he was implying that if you're in this game for this long, that it's because you don't enjoy warfare, or you enjoy the lack of it more at least.

Then he says it's irrelevant that most nations are almost guaranteed to lose if they just jump straight into early war on a map this size (while he says he's happy to lose this specific game because he wants to go down in a blaze of glory).

I think that's fine, I just don't understand the implication that there is some sort of pathos involved on the part of people who are being more cautious in their gameplay. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif


And yes, I do have a psychological problem. Every time I start pushing the keys on this board, and they start forming into words, I have the most awful time trying to make them stop..... O.O

[Foodstamp]

He's not implying anything. You criticize other people constantly to feel better about yourself. Then you try to spin it like your taking up for the community.

Learn a sport or endeavor to get good at a hobby and maybe you wouldn't have to play this pseudo psychology game periodically to build up your own self esteem.

Cleveland's comment could have very well just meant that he felt conflict makes this game fun.

I am getting down to your level on this and I apologize. Calling you out on this will just put you on the defensive here, but I think it may encourage you to act differently in the future on different forums where no one will know about your e-persona or past posting habits.

[AdmiralZhao]

Maybe it is just JM's adorable user icon, but his posts always seem to be somewhat tongue in cheek to me. I didn't read it as him insulting Cleveland or vice-versa, just some good natured bantering.

[JimMorrison]

Zhao gets me, that makes me feel good. 8 )


I understand that you don't get me, Foodstamp. I know it has to do with that horrid debate over maliciously abusing egregious bugs in the game code and how ugly that whole thread got. I would personally (and I doubt I am alone in this) appreciate if you would not drag that baggage around. We don't have to like eachother, but I don't understand how you justify bringing those burnt biscuits into this thread, and then blaming me for it?


And I do hope Cleveland understands that I do not have the slightest shred of animosity towards him. I fairly like the guy actually, because of what he is bringing to the table. Maybe I got a bit effuse in my monologue over his musings, but I think, Foodstamp, if you see any sort of implied insult in it, it has nothing to do with Cleveland, or me.


The funny part about forums..... (do you remember Bulletin Boards? how 80s.....) ..... you can disagree with people, you can debate, and discuss, and generally just carry on - and it doesn't have to MEAN more than what you put into or take away from it. I apologize to anyone and everyone who feels that I generally just come on too strong, and have this "e-persona" that is somehow aggressive and overbearing in some way. It's not my intent, generally.


Anyway, I love this game, and most of the people I've met here. I'm sorry you cannot appreciate or empathize with that, Foodstamp. Maybe try to abuse bugs less, and get less defensive when people tell you it's wrong. You know, to help you in the future on different forums where people don't know about your e-persona, and bug exploiting habits. <3



Are we having fun yet?!


I'M FLYING!
~Bob

[Foodstamp]

Just curious since you have mentioned it on two separate occasions now; what bug have I abused?

P.S. Maybe mine is a bit tongue in cheek as well, but the king isn't as cuddly.

[Zeldor]

My estimation of capitol ownership [I could make some mistakes about eastern continent]:



3 capitols:
LA Man [EA Ermor, MA Abysia]
EA Lanka [EA Hinnom, LA Pythium]
EA Niefelheim [MA Pythium, EA Agartha]
LA Marignon [LA Atlantis, MA Ermor]

2 capitols:
EA C'tis [LA Mictlan]
MA C'tis [MA Machaka]
MA Bandar Log [EA Ulm]
LA Utgard [EA ARcoscephale]
EA Helheim [EA TC]
MA Marignon [EA Sauromatia]
MA Atlantis [EA Caelum]
LA Pangaea [EA Yomi and going for MA Ashdod]
LA Caelum [EA Vanheim]
EA Tir na n'Og [MA Vanheim]
MA Arcoscephale [EA Marverni]
EA Mictlan [LA Patala]


1 capitol:
Well, other nations.

[JimMorrison]

Since the only place we locked horns was in the thread about abusing BEs that don't end, I could only assume that was where this animosity comes from. You were openly hostile in that thread, and now in this one as well.

I have almost 1000 posts now. Many of them very verbose, and many of them expressing a conflicting or differing point of view from someone else. Almost no one has expressed any discomfort due to this, you are a glaring exception, Foodstamp. I'd appreciate it if you dropped the issue, and let Cleveland decide if he's unhappy with our exchange. I don't see anyone else complaining, but I'm sure if they did, they'd be more polite about it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


Fortunately, most people pick up on the profuse use of tonal markers such as http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif and <3 so it's understood that I rarely mean anything as an attack, and often as simply a playful portrayal of the devil's advocate.




And I just gotta say, I've played LA Marignon in one MP game, and I liked their potential..... but am I the only one surprised to see them in what is basically the top 5 in this game so far?

I'm just glad that Dr P saw Bogarus as more of a "late game" threat than little old Gath. One day, he may regret the lovely 12 turn NAP he forced down my throat. Even if that day is 12 turns from now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


Oh and for those who missed the others - <3 <3 <3


In this dog eat dog world, I am not afraid to be a cat - MEOW!


Or a bush baby.

<~~~~~

[cleveland]

JimMorrison said:
And I do hope Cleveland understands that I do not have the slightest shred of animosity towards him.



Of course, and the feeling's mutual.

And with that let's abandon the whole conversation. My apologies for driving things so far off topic.

Very interesting Z. Your list meshes well with what the Sidhe tell me. How have you been able to keep track of all this???

[Darkwind]

Actually, I thought it was EA C'tis who had LA Mictlan. And, upon looking, yes it is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[Foodstamp]

I took a different position on the subject of MoD because the spell was used against me in MP, not the other way around.

I was only quick to jump to another forum members defense because I had been the focus of something from you that was definitely not tongue in cheek. I apologize for getting involved and will go back to lurking.

[Zeldor]

Darkwind:

Are you sure? I would have to check my older scout reports, they have almost the same flags and it could confuse me.

[Darkwind]

Yeah, I'm right next to EA C'tis. EA C'tis definitely owns LA Mictlan.

[Zeldor]

Ok, I will fix the list. And I have scout in your capitol anyway [he witnessed the Eriu invasion], TC makes nice temple spam on your border http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Darkwind]

Temple spamming when I'm not looking? That's rather rude. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Ossa]

No offence intended. I'm using my temples as schools and I want to raise the literacy rate among my peasants.

[DonCorazon]

JimMorrison said:
And I just gotta say, I've played LA Marignon in one MP game, and I liked their potential..... but am I the only one surprised to see them in what is basically the top 5 in this game so far?




Well, Utgard laid down some pain on MA Ermor and was a hair's breadth (aka scripting error) from taking their capital when other matters required our immediate attention. So you might consider that capital a dual effort though Utgard obviously has nothing to show for it other than a few more battle scars.

And the Admiral is not one to be trifled with. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[cleveland]

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/6937/canedn7.th.jpg (http://img240.imageshack.us/my.php?image=canedn7.jpg)


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Xietor]

LA Arcos can add with certainty that they only own one capital(: But at least they own that! only 14 to go. So in 36
turns one might say that LA Arcos is no closer to victory then they were when the races were assigned(:

Though I give all the credit in the world to ea Abysia. They took a strong pretender, a strong bless, and have been well played. Their pd is insanely tough, and they have been a formidable 1st opponent.

[Foodstamp]

This has been a very fun game to this point. It feels like we are about to really get into the "mid" game as far as politics and research goes.

[DonCorazon]

Cleveland: Had to stifle a laugh at work. Nicely done!

[cleveland]

Aw, we nearly had you with the old get-your-opponent-fired-in-real-life-to-plunge-him-into-financial-hardship-so-that-he-can't-afford-internet-access-and-has-to-forfeit-the-game trick.

It's one of the elves' favorites. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Xietor]

Did Coobe ever find a sub for Midguard? I saw his post where he is looking for a permanent sub, and unless they send in a turn soon, they will stale.

If Midguard does stale, I will try to find a permanent sub for them, as I think Coobe said he was going into the hospital (: I did not get any requests to change email addresses for that race.

So if they stale, and with the best intentions, I will try and find Midguard a sub. Coobe if you can read this, contact me if you already have a preferred sub.

I think Midguard has 2 capitals and a decent position btw.
If someone has been previously eliminated, or their race is down to 1 or 2 provinces, you could take over Midguard. Of course you would need to set your present race(which must be on death's door) to ai 1st. You cannot play 2 races at once.

[Zeldor]

Xietor:

Well, if you will have to do that I did see anticipatient volunteering to sub for Midgard.

[Xietor]

ah good, and he sent me his email address as well. too bad I did not get it until after the turn hosted(:

Midguard has new leadership!

Jotunheim, Machaka, please set yourselves to ai, or are they actually dead and the computer just has not shown it yet?

[Zeldor]

Niefelheim is coming for you, Xietor! He is already annihilating your closest neighbour...

[llamabeast]

Alas, LA C'tis is defeated. In the final sally, some 400 C'tissian undead and soldiers burst forth, supported by more than 20 sauromancers. Unfortunately the sauromancers were incompetent and didn't cast much Bane Fire (which had only just been researched), and the Bane Fire itself proved to be markedly less effective than expected. Nevertheless the vast C'tissian army reduced the Kailasan sacreds to just the last few soldiers before finally breaking - so close...

Much respect to the Kailasans. They chewed through my chaff like a hot knife through butter.

And so, the tragic tale of LA C'tis comes to a close; a tale defined by a number of catastrophic errors, including the early loss of an SC god, and somehow losing the war with Midgard from a point at which victory seemed certain.

[Xietor]

Niefelheim?

Zeldor, do you honestly think Ruin, Immortal, Undead, King of Suicides fears the living? What fantasy realm do you hail from?

Though Ruin fears nothing, he has a healthy respect for fire,
and the fires of EA Abysia are near extinguished.

LA Arcos. needs to purchase a crumble.

[Zeldor]

If you saved some fire gems from there I could buy some http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Meglobob]

Zeldor said:
Niefelheim is coming for you, Xietor! He is already annihilating your closest neighbour...



If Niefelheim gets into Xietors area won't he have a good chance of winning given that earlier someone said:-


Xietor said:Had Niefel or Lanka started out over here, they likely would have owned 10 capitals by now.



Also, just how many scouts has Zeldor got?

Answers, on a young female virgin to Ea Mictlan...please. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Xietor]

While it is not normally prudent to provide scouting reports to enemies, I was kidding about pillow fights in our neck of the woods. We are not fighting with sticks and stones.

This springtime blizzard is occurring on the capital of EA Abysia where there is normally heat 3:

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/bf0f1c961a7a2ab7885db18fa84326bd2g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=rkcjnzycnpg&thumb=5)

[DrPraetorious]

With Abysia taken care of, no-one stands between me and, you guessed it, WORLD DOMINATION! BWAH HA HA HA HA!

P.S. DPWM!

[Xietor]

Are you related to Pinky and the Brain?

[sum1lost]

MA Mictlan would like to congratulate Ea Tir Na Nog on managing to get their SC E9N6 earthmother pretender not just killed (along with almost her entire entourage), but horror marked, feeble minded, diseased, and crippled in their assault on our northern swamp. We aren't going to buckle that easily, and we are about to start remote casting the crap out of your forts. We soaked up Vanheim's armies until they collapsed from other pressures- you can be next, and likely will be.

[Xietor]

MA Jotunheim was set to Ai.
MA Machaka will be set to ai as soon as I can find someone to set them to ai.

[Xietor]

On turn 38, for those interested, here is a list of the dead and fallen(ai)

A. Early Age

Tien Chi
Caelum
Agartha
Vanheim
Hinnom
Arcos
Ulm
Ermor
Marverni
Sauromatia
yomi

B. Middle Age

Abysia
Oceania
Ryleh
Vanheim
Ermor
Pythium
Jotunheim
Machaka

C Late Age

Mictlan
Pythium
Atlantis
Patala
Ctis

Update adds Ma Jotunheim, Machaka, and LA Ctis to the list of the fallen. Niefelheim has bolted thundered blasted its way into 2nd place. La Marignon and MA Eriu both took nosedives.

Though with war, fortunes come and go. Who knows what the morrow will bring? Only the Sibyls know for sure. And they are not fortelling-not for free anyway.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[atul]

Xietor said:
kidding about pillow fights in our neck of the woods. We are not fighting with sticks and stones.



?????

But we are!


Xietor said:
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/bf0f1c961a7a2ab7885db18fa84326bd2g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=rkcjnzycnpg&thumb=5)


Looks just like a huge waste of upkeep, those aren't going to do anything for you now that your neighbour has been invaded by giants.

But in other news:

WORLD DOMINATION! BWAH HA HA HA HA!


Bandar Log believes in reincarnation and eternal cycle of life, but...

...stranded on eastern continent. With megalomaniac nation lead by someone called Bright Insight. That has all those cronies. While hope is lost...

Could it be that BL's true god Hanif was in former life one-eyed, ugly, undead and quite immortal? The cycle keeps repeating, and here's the proof!

[Xietor]

There are only a few giants in our neighborhood, and only a few elephants pictured. Besides, my elephants, unlike other elephants, get 3 attacks and can damage a giant. Especially my lucky ethereal elephants, that are berserk. More importantly, I am not at war with any nations-yet-that my elephants cannot trample.

Anyway, I was not showing off the handful of elephants, but the mechanical men, banelords, and 38 mages doing communions and reverse communions. Elephants just tend to hog most of the camera. I had a bunch of clockworks in there somewhere, but they are hidden from view(:

[Unoptimized]

Hey guys. For the record, I wanted to thank you all for an awesome game. Few better ways for a NUB like me to get his feet wet. The battles with some jerface giants went well, and our last fight remains as one of my personal favorites. You know it's to the wire when a grand Thaum. is in MELE WITH AXMEN AND LIVES. (Disclaimer: We checked, and it was not a blind giant)

Then LA Marig. Showed up, and taught me a very important lesson. Undead are like so many welcome mats to a player who has access to holy pyre.

Good game all, and I'm excited to play with you all again in this amazing community.

[Unoptimized]

PS. Don was correct in saying that my defeat was a dual effort. He took out more of my resource than I would have dared to admit pre-my death.

[DonCorazon]

GG Unoptimized
Our last clash was an epic one - nicely done. And you're correct, those were in the days before the giants self-pleasuring habits led to widespread blindness. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Look forward to seeing you again.

[Xietor]

Thanks for playing Unoptimized, and I am glad you enjoyed your stay.

MA Ermor is a fairly tough race, so i understand you getting double teamed(: MP games seldom result in fair 1 v 1 wars as I experienced in the last Big Game when I was on the short end of the stick.

[Herode]

Zeldor said:
My estimation of capitol ownership [I could make some mistakes about eastern continent]:



3 capitols:
LA Man [EA Ermor, MA Abysia]
EA Lanka [EA Hinnom, LA Pythium]
EA Niefelheim [MA Pythium, EA Agartha]
LA Marignon [LA Atlantis, MA Ermor]

2 capitols:
EA C'tis [LA Mictlan]
MA C'tis [MA Machaka]
MA Bandar Log [EA Ulm]
LA Utgard [EA ARcoscephale]
EA Helheim [EA TC]
MA Marignon [EA Sauromatia]
MA Atlantis [EA Caelum]
LA Pangaea [EA Yomi and going for MA Ashdod]
LA Caelum [EA Vanheim]
EA Tir na n'Og [MA Vanheim]
MA Arcoscephale [EA Marverni]
EA Mictlan [LA Patala]


1 capitol:
Well, other nations.


Hey hey ! You can count EA Oceania with 2 capitols since my Knights managed to conquer MA Oceania, not without some efforts due to the attrition guerilla leaded by Great Baalz and his Caprithings.

I hope to reach the 3 cap's nations as soon as we will defeat the nasty Aboleth although I have to admit here that their resistance is painful (but futile, of course http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif )

[sansanjuan]

Is there any skew towards the (average) LA nation's province count vs those of EA/MA at this time of the game? It seems in theory the LA units would be stronger early game (with typically higher protection) and the EA nations later game (with a magic edge). There is certainly a lot of confounders as far as applying this to the Kingmaker game but I thought I'd ask anyway.

-SSJ

[Xietor]

After the next host, Llamaserver has a new feature that will give numerical displays of the score graphs. I will post them.

There may be some way of linking them so people not in the game can see them.

[Tichy]

Hello all --

I am going to need a sub for two turns. I will submit the turn due Sunday (8/10), but I will most likely need a sub for the turns due Tuesday and Thursday of next week (8/12 and 8/14). I will be camping, and I don't expect to have internet service available.

I'm trying here first and if I don't get a response soon I'll start a thread on the MP board.

[Xietor]

http://www.llamaserver.net/showScores.cgi?game=KingMaker

[Xietor]

I want to give a public thanks to Lingchih who has been setting races to ai for me on a daily basis.

Since I am still in the game, I cannot perform that function.
It only takes a minute to set your own race to ai when you are done playing. Just go to options and select computer control. Then send the turn in. So try and remember to do it.

Thanks in advance.

On to another matter. Here is a note from the Game Sponsors:

"We urge all players to kindly refrain from moving non-stealth units out of castles under siege, as this is a
short-listed bug. Given enforcement difficulties, the minor nature of the bug, and the fact that it was not listed initially on the banned exploit list, this matter is on the honor system. Kindly refrain from accusing other people of
breaking this guideline."

Note this is a guideline, not a rule. There will not be any action taken by the game admin. to investigate players who violate the guideline, or any action taken even if there is 100 percent proof that a violation occurred.

[Foodstamp]

Ouch, that graph is a bit too detailed imo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

[Bananadine]

Would the score charts show on Llamaserver for a game that didn't have score graphs enabled?

[Zenzei]

I don't think the llamaserver score tables are too detailed, afterall all that info is easily calculated from the in-game graphs with some elementary school math skills.

[Zeldor]

You can get that by comparing your graphs with other graphs, but it takes some times surely and basic skills. And a lot of patience.

And I understand fears of Foodstamp, Helheim has really stealthy colour of score graphs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Zeldor]

Is quickhost supposed to be ON?

[llamabeast]

Would the score charts show on Llamaserver for a game that didn't have score graphs enabled?

No. The scheme is cunning.

[atul]

I believe Xietor took Quickhosting off for one weekend or so, but put it back afterwards. So, it's supposed to be on. Might have mistaken, though.

In completely other news, now this thread is the second longest in MP part of forums. Double the size and it rivals Perpetuality!

[Reay]

I am going away on holiday from the 20th August until the 11th of September. In that time I would like someone to sub for me temporarily.

If any of you guys can get a sub for me it would be great. I don't want to go AI and hopefully I will be able to play again when I get back.

[Xietor]

I think I have finally got rid of the microscopic print.

Reay, I am hopeful we can get you a sub. Maybe try contacting a few of the players that have been eliminated?

Quickhost is on. It was only off when the game was on a 24 hour timer. Once we moved to 48 hours quickhost was turned on. MA Man is not a real nation, so the fact it does not turn in a turn is not going to stop hosting.

[Agema]

Okay...

I'm throwing in the towel as EA Atlantis. This is because the last two turns were an nightmare. I've lost two provinces to revolts (one being my one of my castles.) My God has at minimum 50 horror marks, and just died to a horror. Due to a late train, I missed the turn and staled by the grand total of one minute (yes, I'm a bit annoyed about that) and lost an army I badly needed.

Although MA Rlyeh is still beatable, after these setbacks by the time I succeeded I'd be virtually useless anyway. It's not even going to affect neighbours in the wider picture, it's just me versus the AI slogging it out to see who gets the small, crippled, water nation, which can as easily be done by two AIs. You can get a sub in for EA Atlantis if you want, but it'd be a pretty thankless task unless someone fancies the challenge. I'll sort out the AI if no-one wants to take over.

[Xietor]

When the Forge of the Ancients is cast a player declares himself Master of all. Vows and ties with him are sundered. And woe upon his enemies. Wars stop. Hated enemies becomes trusted allies, as all eyes cast worried looks Heavenward towards the Forge.

[Zeldor]

Anyone has some gems for sale?

[Xietor]

Trading House thread is the buy/sell/trade items/gems thread.:)

[Zeldor]

Yeah, but they really limited the number of threads that show on 1 page... so no chance to get kingmaker trade house on top. And besides, I am trying to get more life into that thread :)

[Meglobob]

Guess we know why he really, really wanted those earth gems now.:rolleyes:

Bet La Agartha will be 1st to unique artifacts as well and with the forge will snap them all up.

Well done La Agartha.

[Xietor]

He already is at constr 8 or he would never have cast the forge. It could be dispelled next turn, so it would be foolish to put it up before you are ready to use it.

[DrPraetorious]

There are a couple of logical steps we can take against LA Agartha.

Can anyone else overwrite the forge? I've got a decent pile of earth gems, but not enough to take it myself (and of course I don't have Con 7) - I'd be happy to promote a 3rd tier player by giving *him* the forge, especially if he's willing to pay people back the earth gems used to take it.

Failing that, I don't have many pearls, but I've got some, and a concerted effort can dispel the forge. Allow the possibility that he was clever enough to cast it at minimum cost, expecting exactly this (also allowing the possibility that he through everything he had into it...)

Finally, of course, everyone should hit LA Agartha. There's a war in the water that needs to stop :), and then LA Agartha presumably has land neighbors. Putting up the forge is a balzy statement that you think you can take all comers. I congratulate him on his courage.

[atul]

Can anyone else overwrite the forge? I've got a decent pile of earth gems, but not enough to take it myself (and of course I don't have Con 7) - I'd be happy to promote a 3rd tier player by giving *him* the forge, especially if he's willing to pay people back the earth gems used to take it.
Don't know your definition of 3rd tier player, but probably not too many of them are near Const7 at these research settings. LA Arcoscephale has Const7 since Xietor has showed off with mechanical men, MA C'tis, MA Arcoscephale and LA Caelum might hace enough research (but at least Caelum is by no means 3rd tier), and Bandar Log (i.e. I) can get to that level momentarily after the latest blitzkrieg is finished.

Not too much to choose from. Would think dispelling would be easier, but of course Forge will be up again after that...

[anticipatient]

LA Agartha has created the legendary Forge of the Ancients! It can not be allowed to exist, or Agartha may become potentially unstoppable! The Mages of Midgard (LA) have researched Dispel and stand ready to destroy the forge. We need more Astral Gems to be sure our efforts at dispelling succeed. If you have any interest in preserving your chance to forge certain important artifacts, and you don't want them gathering dust in Agartha's vault, or worse, being used against you, send what astral gems you can afford to LA Midgard. If you have no astral gems, excesses of other gem stockpiles could be transmuted and put to good use! I act in all our interests. Remember, the forge is a 50% discount on forging AND +1 magic paths for the purpose of forging! We CAN'T afford to let this enchantment persist!

[Xietor]

LA Arcos is not going to cast Forge of the Ancients. heh. We are a minor race and not nearly so brave as LA Agartha. The Sibyls foretell a fast doom for LA Arcos. should we overwrite the Forge and hold that power ourselves.

:angel:

[cleveland]

Perhaps somebody should post the location of LA Agartha's capital. For free. ;)

[Meglobob]

Okay nothing to see here anymore...;)

[Gregstrom]

I found internet on holiday! Woo.

Ashdod (if they haven't died by now) are on AI. When you're down to one province and no army, it seems fair.

Thanks all for a good game, and I look forwards to the next megagame.

[Zeldor]

Meglobob:

You have some suicidal intentions? :)

[Meglobob]

Meglobob:

You have some suicidal intentions? :)

Damn! You saw.

No suicidal intentions at all, just joking around is all...please don't kill me...pretty please?

[Zeldor]

Meglobob:

Hiring other nations to do that works? :)

Anyway, Agartha is friendly nation and is willing to cooperate with everyone, even people making suspicious 'jokes' :)

[Meglobob]

Meglobob:

Hiring other nations to do that works? :)

Confused, slightly scared?

Anyway, Agartha is friendly nation and is willing to cooperate with everyone, even people making suspicious 'jokes' :)

Relief. What an excellent nation La Agartha is, very friendly and peaceful. A pleasure to co-exist with you in this part of the world.

Btw

Anyone know what happened to La Pans tree?

Was it:-

1) Chopped up and used as firewood in the forge of ancients? Green smoke and everything!

2) Dispelled by a AI nation?

3) Torn down by a evil jealous neighbour?

4) The casting mage died in tragic circumstances?

Answers on your tribute to La Agartha please...(that was another joke)

[Zeldor]

I actually know what happened to that tree. It was quite brutal. And no, no fire or any buildings made from it :)

We are also not cruel enough to hire anyone to do any evil things. We settle anything alone :) Of course with all love and joy that spread with our dominions there is no place for any hostilities.

[Xietor]

I am going to try and get Llamabeast to post the map file for the game. It is turn 40, and i do not think the 4 races that had specified starting spots will be prejudiced now.

[Zeldor]

I see at least 1 capitol missing.

[Amhazair]

Pangaea's beautiful oak unfortunately withered and died when its loving caretakster refused to return home from the battlefield as she had been asked to do, fatally taking the time to apply some make-up instead.

Such is the fate of men who rely on women accepting their suggestions about the best course of action to take...

[anticipatient]

I guess none of you are really serious about dispelling the forge.

[DonCorazon]

Tired of back room dealings and wasting away on our rocking chairs, the werewolf council of Utgard hereby decrees to the world our resumption of hostility vs. our long despised enemy, the increasingly blurry Sidhe of Eriu. Attacks begin next turn.

This also serves as a pre-emptive explanation why our province count and gem income drops to 3 next turn.

Finally, our head scientist, Thog the Studious One Who Read Half a Book Once, is sponsoring a contest and will pay whatever gem supply is left upon our eventual demise to the best blind werewolf idea posted here on the thread. Example: transform blind werewolf into wolf form, give them a bane venom charm, and poison the sidhe water supply (until running into Eriu watcher).

[Zeldor]

I'd put Boots of Calius the Druid [the one with Blink built in], put Heartfinder sword + Eye Shield + Amulet of Vengeance + Elixir of Life + Copper Plate + Spirit Helmet + Boots of Quickness and watch that random uncontrollable destruction!

[Xietor]

Redfrog has taken the reins of EA Atlantis.

Good Luck Redfrog.

[JimMorrison]

I'd put Boots of Calius the Druid [the one with Blink built in], put Heartfinder sword + Eye Shield + Amulet of Vengeance + Elixir of Life + Copper Plate + Spirit Helmet + Boots of Quickness and watch that random uncontrollable destruction!


You mean Sandals of the Crane? I think if this is a fantasy gearout, I would swap in Bone Armor instead of the Copper Plate, and Nethgul instead of the Ammy of Vengeance. Boots of Flying, and a swap of Dimensional Rod instead of Heartfinder..... Oh the madness. :o

Of course, with such a penchant for artifacts, might as well work Gift of Kurgi in there, and rework the rest around that, but meh. ;)

[AdmiralZhao]

The Werewolf Council moves at an opportune moment. The Sidhe's morale has been shaken by the loss of their most beloved hero, Willy O'Giantslayer. Willie made the fatal of mistake of trying to face a Marignon Elder in one on one melee combat, and was boiled alive for his troubles. It is said his brother, Patrick O'GiantSlayer, trembles in fear, afraid to face the mages of Marignon who have slain so many of his kin.

[Xietor]

Just send the gems to me.

A blind werewolf would be immune to the petrify effect of the Stone Sword. So the Stone Sword, Boots Quickness, ring tamed lighting(without 100 sr you are doomed), amulet magic resistance., bone armor, spirit helm. I would want some mr and revig.

If we are limited to constr 6. Shadow Brand/vine Shield. Aoe effect of weapon works without hitting the target.

[JimMorrison]

Just send the gems to me.

A blind werewolf would be immune to the petrify effect of the Stone Sword. So the Stone Sword, Boots Quickness, ring tamed lighting(without 100 sr you are doomed), amulet magic resistance., bone armor, spirit helm. I would want some mr and revig.

If we are limited to constr 6. Shadow Brand/vine Shield. Aoe effect of weapon works without hitting the target.


I'm going to go out on a limb and say you must include either Nethgul, or Sandals of the Crane, to get the full "chaos" effect generated through repeated Blinking. :P

And ummm, why would Blindness make you immune to the Stone Sword? :o

[Agema]

I assume you'd be immune to the stone sword because the petrify effect works like the gorgon medusa. You could only be petrified by looking at the medusa, and if you're blind, you cannot look at her. Whether this is intentional by the developers or an oversight is something I couldn't answer.

[Darkwind]

I, unfortunately, have no interesting tales to tell about beating the Sidhe, mostly, because it seems that they've stopped really caring about what happens in Ulm. They're still trying to avoid my large army of Black Knights, as it seems they fear death very much :p. By now, I think all of the O'Giantslayers have vacated Ulm, likely going on to greener (likely soon to be redder, one way or another) pastures which do not involve Black Knights or Arbalests (which are surprisingly effective if the Sidhe get in range).

Finally, I can't really think of any Werewolf ideas that actually work, due to not having much time and also being a newb. However, I can suggest prying a Frost Brand from the cold dead hands of a Sidhe (preferrably an O'Giantslayer) and then giving it to a blind werewolf. If you can get one, an Eye Shield would be nice too (but if not, a Vine Shield works just as well). Less because it would work against the Sidhe and more because it would be fun to give them a taste of their own medicine and/or watch how well-prepared they are against Eye Shields and Frost Brands (in fact, you could probably sneak around Sidhe lands too if you happen to have a spare spy or the money to get one).

One last thing: I do plan on at some point, for however brief a period, owning the Forge of the Ancients. Preferably not by going to war with Agartha.

[cleveland]

I'm honored I'm somehow still the focus of the world's conspiracies.

As for those wolves...give them "Nightgown of the Grandmother"...the ambush opportunities should be obvious. ;)

[Xietor]

Oh i am not involved in any "conspiracy." The chances of Utgard ever seeing the Stone Sword are slim and none. I just could not pass up the challenge.

Darkwind, you can cast the Forge, you just have to use more gems then LA Agartha used. Then you will "own" it. I think Dr P said he would contribute earth gems to a "freindly" nation casting the Forge, so you may want to talk to him if you have constr. 7.

I doubt MA Ulm owning the Forge will create the stir LA Agartha owning it has. LA Agartha does not mind if you overwrite their global, that is all part of the game. Globals get dispelled and overwritten all the time. No one has a claim to a global.

[DrPraetorious]

I will absolutely contribute earth gems to MA Ulm putting up the forge. I'd expect a few items in return, but that's only fair and reasonable, I think.

More to the point, we should get a consortium together of ~3 players to combine forces and help MA Ulm put up the forge. A reasonable division of items could then be arranged.

If this sounds like a reasonable plan to anyone else, PM me.

LA Agartha can send me flowers in exchange for saving him from destruction at the hands of the rest of the world :)

[Xietor]

Agrat bat Malat, Manticore, Pretender of EA Abysia, had his soul forcibly removed by a Sibyl. He and his band of Burning Ones, Misbreds, Warlocks, and Fire Mages, have been slain. They are no more.

Though they still own a swamp province.....it is over.

I would like to thank Bananadine for playing. And again compliment him on his skill in playing the EA Abysians. They were a tough out. Much much tougher than I bargained for.

[cleveland]

Here we have the heroic Arthgallo heroically attacking the LA Agarthan capital:
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/2276/38336539jm4.th.jpg (http://img367.imageshack.us/my.php?image=38336539jm4.jpg)

And here he is heroically abiding by the 50-turn battle limit:
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/8636/18541147dk8.th.jpg (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=18541147dk8.jpg)

Eriu leads the charge against the Agarthan nemesis. Any nation that fights against Eriu fights for Agartha. Namely, LA Marignon, LA Utgard, MA Ulm, & MA Jotunheim. Puppets.

:D

[Darkwind]

More to the point, we should get a consortium together of ~3 players to combine forces and help MA Ulm put up the forge. A reasonable division of items could then be arranged.The problem with that is that Ulm is nowhere near const 7, due to trying to get Iron Blizzard, and also the rather costly fight against Eriu (our stocks of gold are down from maybe 7000+ at our peak to ~2500, though that's still quite a bit). I'd love to try though.

Also, I applaud (quietly, due to not wanting MA Ulm proper to be blighted multiple times per month for the next year) Eriu's fight against Agartha; Monny would due, had he hands to clap with. An attempt to get out of war with 4 other nations (by the way MA Jotunheim is AI and has barely any provinces so it's really only three), but laudable nonetheless. Anon the Black Priest, however, would likely not clap, though he mostly exists to give a healthy dose of Not Expecting the Marignese (Marignonian? Marignian? Marignonese?) Inquisition to Monny, and also comedic relief (although the comfy chair does that just as reliably).

How did I manage to get Monty Python involved in my roleplaying as MA Ulm? The world may never know.

[Xietor]

On turn 42 the contenders all have 40 plus provinces, though with the Forge up, and a tremendous lead in research, LA Agartha is the race to beat. And likely the easiest path to 15 with easy access to the water nations, which, unlike the last Big Game, seem to be vulnerable.

But the knocking on the door races are, drum roll

Niefel, MA and LA Marignon, Helheim, LA Caelum, and Bandar Log.

Judge for yourself. the numbers do not lie:

http://www.llamaserver.net/showScores.cgi?game=KingMaker

[JimMorrison]

LA Agartha is the race to beat...Niefel, and Bandar Log.


Why must I be surrounded by these three? :P

Every time I decide to kill a neighbor, someone much larger says "oh hi, this is ours", and the whole plan goes to poo. :re:


Gath dammit! :o

[Xietor]

As the game progresses, there will be nothing left but powerful nations by which to be surrounded. You likely USED to have less powerful neighbors, but they have been gobbled up.

[JimMorrison]

Oh I edited the quote wrong, those aren't exactly the 3 who border me, but same result. :P

But I inherited Gath with a reallllly slow start (several early stales), and was barely getting things rolling and Bandar Log ate Ulm. I reorganized, went for Agartha, and Dr P bit my head off. ;) Now, I'm just little old me, looking for that fabled "opportune moment".

Grumble grumble. :p

[Lingchih]

Whatever happended to Lanka? I need to know so I can send the ghosts of LA Pythium to go haunt him.

[atul]

Whatever happended to Lanka? I need to know so I can send the ghosts of LA Pythium to go haunt him.
From the graphs it would seem that Lanka has fallen into mediocrity at least when province count is considered. Yet their army count is steadily increasing, which would bode doom to some unfortunate neighbour soon. *dum dum doom*

Anyway, given MA Ulm's lack of research the current best proposition appears to be LA Arcoscephale's Dispel. Bandar Log soon has the research for Const7, but since we've been just nominated one of the top contenders in a continent filled with top contenders, I don't believe I have enough diplomatic maneuvering room anymore.

[Darkwind]

From the graphs it would seem that Lanka has fallen into mediocrity at least when province count is considered. Yet their army count is steadily increasing, which would bode doom to some unfortunate neighbour soon. *dum dum doom*

Anyway, given MA Ulm's lack of research the current best proposition appears to be LA Arcoscephale's Dispel. Bandar Log soon has the research for Const7, but since we've been just nominated one of the top contenders in a continent filled with top contenders, I don't believe I have enough diplomatic maneuvering room anymore.MA Ulm, having finally researched Iron Blizzard and Magma Eruption in all of their mid-tier glory, is proud to announce an initiative to take over the Forge. As we have already been blessed with an E3 Smith (currently on Fruit Loop-hunting duty), all we need is a single non-Earth Boot item and at most 8 months of research (being halfway through Constr 5 and having 280 research per turn with more than a page and a half of smiths, sigh) and Ulm will be well on its way to having the Forge of the Ancients.

No offense meant, LA Agartha. I just really want that extra forging cost and path bonus. Due to, you know, having only the Forges of Ulm and an army of Black knights backed by Iron Eruptions and Magma Blizzards between me and painful death.

:D

[Xietor]

Turn 43 Score graphs.

The rich get richer.

2 nations(niefelheim and helheim) over 50 provinces, with la marignon close at 49. Other powers over the 40 mark, ma marignon, la caelum, bandar log.

The leader remains LA Agartha.

http://www.llamaserver.net/showScores.cgi?game=KingMaker

Dead nations by era

Early 12
Middle 10
Late 7

[Kristoffer O]

Hi!

Seems LA nations fare better in these big games.

Thoughts on the game? Or is it too early to say anything?
Effects from no free spawn nations, wrap around map and other stuff.

[Meglobob]

Ha Ha, I said a long time ago that La nations have a slight advantage overall than nations of other eras in a megagame.

Whats happening is fairly simple, in the early part of the game La nation units tend to have a advantge in protection values mainly. This avantage is small vs Ma but larger vs Ea. So in the early game more Ea nations are going to be eliminated or end up with small kingdoms.

The Ea exceptions to this rule are of course heavy, powerful bless nations such as Ea Lanka, Mictlan, Helheim and Niefelheim. Ea Kailasa also took a powerful bless. Tir Na Nog and Fomoria perhaps have a strong bless? Anyway those are 2 of the more powerful Ea nations anyway.

This creates a problem for future megagames because once a advantage, even a slight one becomes well known, people will exploit it even more. An example is Ma Ulm used to always get targeted early on in MP games because it was viewed as weak and a easy kill. With La nations having a slight advantage, they will tend to target Ea nations in future megagames, avoiding of course the Ea heavy hitters.

[DrPraetorious]

There's a wide range of play skill and luck involved here, I'm not sure if these differences are really significant. It's true that an EA nation with no stellar early defenses (EA Ermor, for example) is a more attractive target than a LA nation with 2 fewer gems per month.

LA nations also tend to have larger admin bonuses in their capitals, making them stronger even with an equivalent military.

But EA Ermor has good protection (about the same as MA if you only field the high prot legionaire anyway) and still always dies.

Now, everyone thinks the forge was dispelled? Maybe, but that's a pedestrian answer. I think it was cast by an K'tonian necromancer who got smacked down by one of 5,000 seeking arrows helheim just lobbed.

[Xietor]

In the 1st Big Game the EA did best, and the LA the worst. So I am not sure conclusions can be drawn yet. There were also more players taking EA races in this game then late.

In my war against EA Abysia, I would say the Burning Ones have protection as good as the best la nation, especially with their e9n4 bless, and their pd is 2nd to none. I attribute the difference in the outcome of the war to my pretender a 5d 3e 3a Lich, and superior research. The Lich gave LA Arcos a tie to much needed thugs.

The difference in the war was I had const 6 items and banelords, and effective communions and reverse communions. But had it been simply a fight between castle bought troops, EA Abysia would have won quite easily.

Then you have 2 on 1 wars, and even 3 on 1 wars. So EA Hinnom and LA mictlan really had very uphill fights with the former having to fight Lanka and Kailasa, and the latter EA and MA Ctis, plus MA Ulm with their new Bane of Heresy weapons.

I also agree with Dr. P that EA Nations and MA Pythium are higher value targets because they produce more gems. All other things being equal, you would rather own a capital of a race that produces 6 rather than 4 gems a turn.

[Xietor]

The effect of no LA Ermor or LA Ryleh means there is no compelling need for alliances to strike them down. In the 1st Big Game no Alliance appeared to take them out, and they became unstoppable in the mid to late game.

Even the strongest nations in Kingmaker are not All Powerful.

[DonCorazon]

A few anecdotal takeaways from LA Utgard:

I was next to EA Arcos, and never used "high protection" troops - it was just a matter of a strong bless nation next to heavy research dependent nation. High protection can mean need for resources which can actually be a disadvantage anyway depending on your starting terrain. I think it was more bad luck for them more than an inherent LA game edge.

Has LA Agartha captured many/any capitals? My takeaway with their leadership may be that relying on diplomacy to stay safe and focus on researching while your neighbors whittle away their resources and mage-time on battles can be an effective strategy vs. the aggressive, growth for the sake of growth strategy commonly employed. For example, players may fail to fully search and "harvest" the land they conquer while they expand indiscriminately.

Finally, beware piles of froot loops in the bushes. Until Eye Shields get made Const 4, it means you should buy lots of sun glasses....

:)

[Zeldor]

LA Agartha is friendly nation that does not use aggression. We have just liberated MA Caelum capitol that turn from its oppressive goverment, that forced us to start that war.

We are nice and full of love towards everyone. But the one that unmade our Forge will burn in hell. Slowly. And we will make death that brings you to that place will be painful.

If anyone has any information about that pesky little coward, please PM us. You will get rich if your info leads us to that criminal.

[Foodstamp]

Now, everyone thinks the forge was dispelled? Maybe, but that's a pedestrian answer. I think it was cast by an K'tonian necromancer who got smacked down by one of 5,000 seeking arrows helheim just lobbed.

You can lay 5,000 seeking arrows upon the ground in a specific pattern to read "Dispelled" from space. It all depends on your perspective!

[Darkwind]

I might need a sub for a little while. My dad decided that updating my graphics driver (my screen has been blacking out on me temporarily for a while now) was a good idea and now, for some reason, various images and text aren't displaying correctly. I can't figure out how to find Kingmaker in-game, let alone play it. Hopefully I can fix this before the turn hosts.

[Xietor]

I was just looking at last year's Big Game. The final turn was turn 94. Only a handful of nations were left. Even fewer that could actually fight LA Ermor or LA Ryleh. Those nations were:

LA Ryleh-Evilhomer
LA Ermor- Velusion
MA Agartha Atul
MA Ermor -Lolomo
MA Ctis-Xietor
MA Pangaea-Hadrian(though I am not sure he would have lasted long in any major war)(he mostly picked on small nations).

Alive but I am unsure of their status-doubtful they had much left or could have fought off tartarians hordes for long(but I may be wrong)

EA Oceania- Amhazair
LA Pangaea-Lingchih
EA Pangaea-Szumo
Machaka-Reay
MA Ryleh- Salamander
MA Pythium-Zoshan
MA Tien Chi-Tichy
ma jotunheim-solo
la abysia-Stelteck

EA Oceania was, at one point in the game, a major power. When the game ended I was at war with the LA Ermor block, and had been for several turns. Several races were sitting on the sidelines watching. LA Ryleh being one of them.

But I think the thing you see from the 2 games, is there is very little carryover between races, but a lot of carry over between players.

Lolomo and Atul have new races, but are yet again contenders. Evilhomer is a skilled player, but he did not survive the 3 on 1 scare his presence generated. I think player skill, diplomacy, and luck(where and who you started next to) play major roles in your chances to survive the early and midgame.

[Darkwind]

Edit: Yay! I can still edit this! Anyways, nevermind about the driver bugging out and all that. I managed to fix it. So, I don't need a sub. Fortunately.

Also, interesting stuff Xietor.

[Xietor]

Also if you look at the top races in Kingmaker, they all died early deaths in Perpetuality. Niefelheim may have followed only MA Ulm in the early exit department. LA Agartha was killed off by independents, and I do not mean Bogus or the Ancient Presence. I mean Knights. The evils of Misfortune. I actually think the Bandar Log reached the mid game.

LA caelum I believe died fairly early(i know for a fact the other 2 caelums did), and I am not sure what misfortunes befell the marignons, but they were never a power.

[Xietor]

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</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <!-- / user info --><!-- message, attachments, sig --> <!-- icon and title --> http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: LA R\'lyeh
<hr style="color: rgb(236, 236, 236); background-color: rgb(236, 236, 236);" size="1"> <!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message --> Since everyone is laying down their cards, hehe, I'll show mine too.

I was pulling in about 120 Astral Gems from Clams, and about the same number of Earth Gems from blood stones. Making 4 clams and 4 blood stones per turn. I was wishing for gems every turn, and had started in motion another unit to do 2 wishes per turn. My problem was recruiting enough units to put all the stuff I was forging. Most of them were reserve items that I wasn't expecting to use immediately. I had the Steel Oven Construction bonus, so that even though I had access to the forge as part of the Sinister Six Alliance, I found it more convenient to forge my own.

If pressed I would have been capable of 15 seeking arrows, 10 earth attacks, and 6 ghost riders per turn, while still doing all the forging and "turtling" activities. Plus I had prepared a batch of stealthy assasinating Claws of Kokytos casting Spectres that I was about to seed around to catch raiding SCs hehe. Also lots of Druid led raiding Shadow Vestals, a lot of them with flying carpets. I had only used a few squads against Pythium and they were surprisingly effective, enough to probably win me the war by themselves. I had quite a lot of specialized units in reserve that I planned to use to fight a gem efficient war against SCs. I had also planned to use huge communions with my cheap Astral and Death mages.

I had been holding back in the war against MA C'tis, going for gem efficiency rather than a quick kill, as I did not want LA R'lyeh to conclude that it was over for MA C'tis and reveal himself as an ally of MA C'tis. My theory was that the longer the game run, the bigger my advantage gets, especially since no one seems to think that I was clamming =) Without the Steel Oven, I probably would not have spent the huge resources needed to get clamming started.

The biggest danger for me the entire game was in the beginning in the war against Abysia. My vestals were not very effective against heat auras and the dragon pretender, plus they had control of the steel oven then. Then Vanheim joined Abysia in fighting me. I had to pretend to be a lot stronger than I was at that time to get those two to agree to non simultaneous ceasefires, that allowed me to eventually concentrate on Abysia.

After that I had to forge diplomatic ties to keep out of war while I leverage the Steel Oven advantage.


It makes me feel better that someone else of note had trouble with EA Abysia as a 1st foe as well. I will lay down my cards as well Lolomo. You were fighting one fist of my army. My main army sat in my in my mainland. I was hoping to draw out the full tartarian hordes of la ermor and whatever you had up your sleeve in a remote part of the world-which did not connect to my mainland.

I was prepared to lose several tartarians and that gated army, formidable though it was, to draw la ryleh into the war on my side. I figured that was my only hope longterm to even have a possible shot to win. get la ryleh involved, get my advance force killed off, then build up myself while la ryleh took over the fight against the Ermor faction.

of course all of that was before i found out he was wishing 5 times a turn. had I known that i think we could have just declared him the winner.
<!-- / message --><!-- controls --> http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/styles/Shrap/buttons/quote.gif (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=569322)

[LoloMo]

Haha, had we known he was pulling off 5 wishes a turn, the whole world might have tried to band together to fight him off. That would have been interesting!

This time around, I doubt anyone would be clamming at all, except for gem carrying purposes only.

[Reay]

PsiSoldier is my temporary sub from next host for around 10-12 turns.
Please send any communications to him, thanks.

[Twan]

This time around, I doubt anyone would be clamming at all, except for gem carrying purposes only.


The problem seem to find a good middle ground.

IMO our setting have gone a little too far in the gem economy nerfs, and it will make blood nations unstoppable in late game, as they are the only ones with a growing magic income (being the neighbour of EA Mictlan, and not far from Lanka, it starts to worry me ;) ).

[Xietor]

blood hunting can be stopped by raiding. clamming cannot.

Though there is typically an incentive to kill blood nations off early before their economies get rolling. Astral corruption cannot be cast with the Kingmaker mod BTW.

[Meglobob]

This time around, I doubt anyone would be clamming at all, except for gem carrying purposes only.


The problem seem to find a good middle ground.

IMO our setting have gone a little too far in the gem economy nerfs, and it will make blood nations unstoppable in late game, as they are the only ones with a growing magic income (being the neighbour of EA Mictlan, and not far from Lanka, it starts to worry me ;) ).

But not as much as master enslave, large communions and mind hunting without fear of feeblemind worrys me! Fat lot of good it is me summoning loads of demons/devils when you can very easily destroy them with communions or later on master enslave my entire army and use it against me. Assuming of course my commanders can move at all without there minds getting squished!

[Zeldor]

I agree with Twan - that game setting extremely favor blood nation as they are mostly also heavy bless nations. Difficult research + some items nerfed make it paradise for them [I am happy with the item nerfs though].

Astral is still really strong. Nations without good blood or S are pretty much doomed, like poor La Agartha :(

[JimMorrison]

LA Agartha - poster child for impending doom. :cold:

I don't think that Blood is some magically easier road in Very Hard research..... First, you need to study an entirely additional school to get all of your summons. Second, you still need good Cons, and if you want to actually field anything other than SCs, you need all the army buffs everyone else would get. And you have to do this all with less gold income, and some of your mages permanently devoted to catching slaves instead of researching. :p

[Xietor]

Strange-The hosting time was moved back 2 hours.

But since not even Llamabeast himself can do that without my clearance I am manually forcing host as the due time has passed. Never rely on any extension of hosting time from Llamabeast or anyone else unless I am on vacation and pass the admin. hat off to someone else.

Not saying anyone asked for the 2 hour extension, but if someone did, they asked the wrong person.

[konming]

Llamasever was having difficulties receiving emails, so I guess that's why there was a two hour extension.

[Zeldor]

No, there was a message that mail server was down. That is automatic process on llamaserver and it turns on that failsafe postpone. As it went back online it moved back hosting [or you did it :)].

[Meglobob]

Xieter no one asked for a extension, its a safety feature of the lamaserver. It could not connect to the server for several hours. In such a situation it automatically extends the host times. This is to prevent anyone who sent there turn in from unfairly missing there turn and give lamaserver time to correct it self.

Check with the Llama himself if you want confirmation.

Remember (except for irons) the lamaserver is all knowing, you are just semi-all knowing.

[Zeldor]

It got moved forward by 1 hour now, what is going on?

[Falkor]

Strange-The hosting time was moved back 2 hours.

But since not even Llamabeast himself can do that without my clearance I am manually forcing host as the due time has passed. Never rely on any extension of hosting time from Llamabeast or anyone else unless I am on vacation and pass the admin. hat off to someone else.

Not saying anyone asked for the 2 hour extension, but if someone did, they asked the wrong person.

I gave myself more time for the turn when I saw the hosting time postponed on llamaserver. I'm a bit disappointed about your action Xietor. Server problems can cause delays but turning the timer back is really confusing. :(

[DonCorazon]

It didn't impact me but I do agree that is a bit harsh. I don't memorize the hosting times so rely on whatever I see when I happen to glance at LLamaserver, assuming those times are official, so to suddenly reduce the time could easily have caused me to stale.

So while it didn't affect me, I sympathize with anyone who it did hurt.

[Xietor]

I did not receive any pms about anyone unable to send in their turns. If that occurs in the future, let me know and i will postpone hosting. When I forced hosting, there was only 1 nation that had not sent in a turn.

In any event, do not rely on any extensions granted by llamaserver(Typically llamaserver extensions are 24 hours, however, not 2). There is really no reason to wait until the last minute to send in a turn. If players are deliberately waiting until the last minute to avoid an early host, then i will turn quick host off.

But in this case the one player did not wait until the last minute, but 40 minutes after the hosting was due. While I do not want to see anyone stale, I also do not want to see turns take more than their allotted time at turn 44.

To try to encourage players to get their turns in early, and not wait until the last minute, I am going to turn quick host off. We are probably at the point where many of the contenders need the full 48 hours to consider all of their options in any event.

I have not adjusted the hosting time at all. It is 48 hours from the time I hit force host. Which is what it should be.

For those that were unaware that the time was moved back 2 hours and relied on it(Lanka), a possibility I did not consider being a die hard player with the hosting times of all my games memorized, I sincerely apologize. That never entered my mind.

[Xietor]

quickhost is now off. That means no matter when you send in your turn, the game will not host until the entire 48 hour period elapses.

[Micah]

Oh man, that's just not right.

[JimMorrison]

:fire: :ghug:

[Xietor]

I am just glad i am on the other side of the world from Lanka, or people may say unkind things about my motives.

:cold:

However, I will offer, when Llamabeast returns, to let him administer the game. Since LA Ctis is out of the game, and the ma man arena thing is his baby anyway, it would be for the best. let's just hope there are no arena events while he is on vacation.

[Falkor]

Xietor, don't give up this game. It's your child. :D
I would never allow myself to accuse you of evil intentions. It's a misunderstanding and I would be happy if we could agree to no more forced hosting. Especially when delay is such short. The gain is just not worth the confussion it causes.

[Digress]

I don't think its a question of motives ... more an example of tough love.

You won't cop any critism from me ... I have proved myself a truly inept admin in the past and would never have the patience/ruthlessness necessary to get a big game up and running.

With that I will retire back into the backwater that is MA C'tis ...

[Xietor]

Llamaserver's email has been down for a few hours today. I will not SHORTEN the new host time-whatever it is-when it comes back up. In fact, if the mail server comes back up and a delay is not granted, I may add time myself if it goes on much longer.

Once the mail server is back up, I may ADD time to get the server to host while I am awake if it turns out that the new host time is between 0000-0700 my time. If something goes wrong, i can delay the host if i am awake and aware of an issue. If the game is hosting at 2 am my time, and an issue arises, I will not be able to address it.

[Zeldor]

What timezone are you in? :)

[Xietor]

New Orleans CST it is -5 or -6 GMT depending on the time of year.

I wonder if his mailbox is full(:

[Xietor]

I am going to go ahead and postpone the hosting by 72 hours. What I am afraid of is llamaserver somehow going down to where i cant delay the hosting, but no one can send in their turns. Thus creating a situation where everyone stales.

Llamaserver does have a back up, and if that did occur we could have llamabeast manually reset the game to a certain point in time, but I would rather avoid an issue on the front end if possible. He likely will be very busy when he gets back from vacation, and I do not want to add to his worries if i can avoid it.

If the mail server gets fixed, I will reset the timer to a fresh 48 hours. No one hates delay more than I, but this appears to be unavoidable.

[Foodstamp]

Is this going to lead to me staling?

What I mean is, if sometime tomorrow while I am at work it returns my email and the server comes up shortly after, are you going to force host it tomorrow afternoon while I am at work or later that evening during 2 for 1 margaritas?

That would make me sad in the pants.

[DonCorazon]

Nobody likes to be force hosted. It sounds like what I do when I can't get my foot in a shoe. My theory is that is what broke the LLamaserver's spirit.
I can see its little electronic tears while its great master is away. It is tragic.

I call for an embargo on force hosting. It is just completely inhumane. :)

[JimMorrison]

No means no!

Stop the hate.

:eek:

[Foodstamp]

Nevermind, turn confirmed :)

[Xietor]

no one is going to stale. When the mail server was down, i added 72 hours to the turn.

It is now back up. So I will reset it so that everyone has a fresh 48 hours to get in their turns.

/peace.

Time has been taken off the clock now that the mail server is working, but it will not "force host." There is still be 48 hours to get in your turn. It will not host until sat. evening(cst)

[Foodstamp]

Ah ok, I wasn't sure before where the 72 hours began or would begin. Awesome work moderating the game :)

[sum1lost]

I would like to apologize to all those players who I've inconvenienced. I got stuck without almost any internet access the last two weeks with very short warning, and unfortunantely, the forums were down in that time.

[DonCorazon]

Let it be known to any scavengers of war that Utgard lays claim to the Sidhe capital. Our citizens clamor for blood and revenge and will let none stand in the path of the book burning horde.

Meanwhile, Two-Eyes has been getting a lot of fan mail and sponsorships after his arena victory a few moons ago. He has sadly developed a belly and is not in great shape. Seems he lost a bit of faith when he learned his mandate to fight had not come from Utgard's divine chunk of granite but a prankster ethereal sethkona. Nevertheless, we are putting him back into training and hope to take home another gold.

PS this post is dedicated to LA Agartha.

[Xietor]

In my above the call of duty attempt to prevent players from staling, despite having several days to do your turns, I note with 15 minutes to go, some of you have not sent in turns:

M Ulm, MA Tien Chi, MA Eriu. I know MA Eriu gave up, as did LA Jomon, but the other 2 are conducting successful mop ups on ma eriu. shrug.

[DonCorazon]

As they say, half the battle is just showing up.

[Darkwind]

I just got in my turn. I knew it was on Sunday, but not so early on Sunday it's actually Saturday (my clock is four hours earlier than the Llamaserver's).

But anyways, wouldn't say I'm too successful. Though my military is now in tip-top shape, I can barely support the 1000+ upkeep a horde of Black Knights, Arbalests, and assorted shield- and flail-wielding units requires. At least it's not affecting my gem income or research (also, my first Smith to die of disease died this month). Thus I'm full-speed for the Forge of the Ancients (which I'll get in five months, game-time). Not that that's very long even with at least two pages of smiths researching. Seriously smiths suck at researching and they're my best with drain-3, though I wouldn't give up my awe-inspiring scales for the world. Actually, yeah I would because then I'd win and not need them. Monny wouldn't at least.

[Xietor]

Try to get an initial turn in well before the deadline, and fine tune it later. That way at least you will not stale.

And just in case there is a concern about the game hosting too quickly, quick host is off. So the entire 48 hours will elapse even if everyone has their turn sent in.

[Zeldor]

Darkwind:

Sell me the gems so you will have the gold :)

[Xietor]

Turn 46 Province Count


EA Arcoscephale 0
EA Ermor 0
EA Ulm 0
EA Marverni 0
EA Sauromatia 0
EA T'ien Ch'i 0
EA Mictlan 25
EA Abysia 0
EA Caelum 0
EA C'tis 11
EA Agartha 0
EA Tir na n'Og 32
EA Fomoria 33
EA Vanheim 0
EA Helheim 58
EA Niefelheim 52
EA Kailasa 40
EA Yomi 0
EA Hinnom 0
EA Atlantis 11
EA R’lyeh 23
EA Oceania 14
EA Lanka 22

11/24 alive


MA Arcoscephale 28
MA Ermor 0
MA Pythium 0
MA Ulm 15
MA Marignon 43
MA Mictlan 0
MA T'ien Ch'i 13
MA Machaka 0
MA Agartha 19
MA Abysia 0
MA Caelum 0
MA C'tis 29
MA Vanheim 0
MA Jotunheim 2(Ai)
MA Bandar Log 43
MA Ashdod 1(AI)
MA Atlantis 32
MA R'lyeh 11(AI)
MA Oceania 3(AI)
MA Eriu 5(thrown in towel)

8/20 Alive

LA Arcoscephale 36
LA Man 32
LA Marignon 56
LA Mictlan 0
LA T'ien Ch'i 24
LA Jomon 0
LA Agartha 48
LA Abysia 19
LA Caelum 43
LA C'tis 0
LA Pangaea 17
LA Midgard 4(good as dead)
LA Utgard 21
LA Patala 0
LA Gath 21
LA Atlantis 0
LA Pythium 0
LA Bogarus 1(good as dead)

10/18

So here you have the update province standings. LA Agartha has a tremendous lead in research, and the top nations have vast gem advantages over even the middle of the pack nations.

The complete statistical graphs can be viewed at http://www.llamaserver.net/showScores.cgi?game=KingMaker


Interesting tidbits: all 3 EA water races are alive.

Surprises to me: MA Ulm, MA Tien Chi, LA Man, are alive.
And MA Ryleh, MA Pythium, and MA Ermor, the 3 MA mp power races, all had early exits.

[Herode]

Interesting tidbits: all 3 EA water races are alive.

Not for long. EA Oceania is dying under EA R'lyeh troops/mind blast/sharks spamming. I will go to IA in 1-2 turns.
Good luck to the survivors ! :)

[Zeldor]

We will need it. Sybils are sending me some dark prophecies. But they probably just want some more gold or virgins...

[Xietor]

"more gold or virgins."

"More" implies you believe you have given us some already. Since we have received none, maybe that is an oversight? Please feel free to correct that oversight.

[Zeldor]

I will consider it when sybils start giving some good news.

[Darkwind]

Aren't sybils female? Aren't bloodslaves also, generally, female? I'd hate to be a LA Arcoscephalean bloodslave then.

Also I'm not really surprised that EA R'lyeh is doing fairly well, from my limited experience. They have some of the cheapest mindblasters in the game, if I remember, at 40 gold. They also have access to a lot of small chaff (little Aboleth spawn) to supplement their Lobo Guards. They're not very powerful on land, but underwater they might be able to beat MA R'lyeh in a fight. I'd even hazard to say that LA R'lyeh would have an unusually hard time against a roughly equal Aboleth nation. Mind you this is from one MP game wherein I lost miserably, and also coming from a complete newb. Take all this with a grain of salt.

But as for Ulm I staled and Jotunheim decided it would be a great idea to attack te province next to the province with the stack of hundreds of assorted superior Ulmish troops and a small army of Smiths. I expect the AI will try to meet this force head-on, possibly sending a F10 (maybe even with additional boosters!) crone in for epic old age action. Who knows.

[konming]

EA oceania should be able to dominate EA R'lyeh in a regular game with W9S9 blessed triton knights. Just plenty of triton knights, hardly anything under water stops them. But I am not sure about how this goes in mega games.

[Xietor]

Zeldor:"I will consider it[paying gold] when sybils start giving some good news."

To question the integrity of the sybils is to tempt the wrath of the Fates. A favorable portent cannot be bought Zeldor!


That said, by coincidence, the sybils have had, ahem, a new foretelling concerning the fortunes of LA Agartha.

"Having learned humility from its failed attempt to recreate the Forge of the Ancients, and wisdom from the words of the sybils, fortune favors the Nation of LA Agartha in it coming major war and it will win a great victory. Be warned, however, that fortune can be a fickle mistress, and steps should be taken to assure that fortune remains on your side.

[Xietor]

And with the casting of Well of Misery, on turn 47, LA Caelum lays claim to the elemental royalty.

We have constr 8 reached by LA Agartha-
We have conj 8 reached by LA Caelum.

Even with very hard research, how much longer will it be until the first tartarians begin their assault upon the peaceful nations of the world?

The sand begins to fall rapidly through the hourglass for those without the means to kill a tartarian cyclops cloud trapezing onto their capital.

[Herode]

EA oceania should be able to dominate EA R'lyeh in a regular game with W9S9 blessed triton knights. Just plenty of triton knights, hardly anything under water stops them. But I am not sure about how this goes in mega games.
Might be that S9 bless that I missed. My bless is W10F5, so no MR bonus.

In a balanced situation regarding income & so on, I still think EA Oceania has fair chances anyway. The point is that the situation between me & R'lyeh in Kingmaker is not balanced at all (I mean : at this point of the game, not regarding nations, starting positions or rules).
I've been under attack from MA Oceania very early in the game, at which point EA R'lyeh broke the NAP/alliance we had, NAPed with MA Oceania, seized the neutral provinces I should have controlled and waited for MA Oceania to die, meanwhile accumulating troops, magic and gold.

The war against MA Oceania has not been so easy for me. Baalz fought fiercely & agressively. I still think he could have won the challenge, had he blessed his sacred with some useful stuff. BTW, I lost castles at t-1 from being built, MA Oceania troops lurked around my capitol and my provinces many turns in masses before me being able to gather enough troops and defeat them. I had to use all my diminished income to purchase expensive Triton Knights : no time nor money to build castles at the risk of being attacked during the process, so no other place where I could buy mages and do some research.

When MA Oceania eventually lost his capitol, EA R'lyeh attacked me. At this time, he had gathered a great deal of magic and income. Twice my income at least, not even mentionning my almost inexistent magic research. I won the first battles but he slowly attritionned me to death : mind blasts & paralyze casted behind a heavy screen of cheap troops, by hundreds, and massive shark attacks. Just nothing I can counter right now : even with Hold &... scripted, my knights soon end in the front line, fight one or 2 turns before being paralyzed, and then their Att0 Def0 stats just calls for their miserable death. :hurt:

As for the troops spamming of R'lyeh, I confess I'm impressed. I see near MA Oceania a >600 army just coming. A few turns ago, there were hardly more than 200 troops around. Where the hell do these swarms come from, that I don't know. Similar things happen in the soutern provinces of the sea near my capitol, although a bit less impressive. Then : wow & gasp :p

[Baalz]

The dust cloud grew larger as the legions of Midgard closed. Rank after rank of wildeyed skinchangers marched in a seemingly never ending throng hundreds strong. The air hummed with the charged energy as scores of air wizards prepared to tear the very heavens open with more lightning than this world has ever seen. Truly the might of Midgard had turned out to repel the army besieging their capital and their magic arsenal was terrible to behold. The central nexus of the army was a gigantic Great Mother, powerfully in her dominion and regenerating a staggering amount of damage per turn.

Lined up around the castle were ranks of gleaming golden Gandharvas, their shining armor looking like so many lightning rods flanked by the nearly naked Yavanas and a hanful of Markata servants. Vastly outnumbered and obscenely arcanely outgunned their generally awesome presence seemed a bit dimmer as the enemy forces lined up and prepared to charge. The golden army stood firm, prepared for whatever fate decreed for them.

With a huge roar the hoard of raging skinshifters charged forward to defend their homes, giant claymores held high with the promise of blood. The massive congress of mages began the evocations which would split the sky open and for a moment the golden army stood still. Then the Kalaisian general said one word. “Now”

Hundreds upon hundreds of Atavi archers sprang from cover – dropping out from trees, standing up in the long grass and bursting from concealed burrows. As they quickly drew and fired their bows the great god of Kalaisia manifest on the battlefield and caused the arrows to burst into flame while a sorceress appeared from nowhere to cause the air itself to guide the arrows true. The celestial music began to play, the strength of giants flowed into the golden army and the great prophet Cittaprabha invoked the divine blessing of Vishvamitra causing the weapons of the righteous to spring into flame. The Rishi known as Rage caused swarms of wolves to appear around the flanks of Midgard, the Light of the Northern Star shown down and the battle of fire against lightning was joined.

Over two hundred flaming arrows fell among the shieldless skinchangers in the initial volley and yet they proved resilient. Singed werefur sent acrid smoke into the air and Midgard sorceresses screeched as blazing arrows pierced their chests. Yet an avalanche cannot be stayed by arrows and the Midgard response was immediate.

The Midgard infantry split, half moving forward to engage the Golden Army, half pulling back to defend their mages from the wolves. Lacking any archers themselves, things looked to be grim for Midgard. Then the sky fell down. A torrent of lightning never before seen poured out of the sky. Thunderstrike followed thunderstrike with an occasional smaller lighting blast shooting out almost as a taunt. Nearly 50 blasts shook the Golden Army before they could react and the very ground bubbled with the energies released.

The might of Vishvamitra is undeniable though. His blessing not only gifts his most loyal followers with flaming weapons, it also twists fate itself to prevent them harm. Massive though the electrical discharge was, relatively few casualties were incurred amongst the Golden Army. The same cannot be said for the flanking wolves, yet they had served their purpose.

The next volley of flaming arrows darkened the sky and a fresh wave of wolves appeared on the flanks. Soul Slay after Paralyze was piled atop the tremendous Great Mother, but she paid them no mind. The forward division of skinchangers was more tightly clumped however and the casualties from the arrows were hideous. The Golden Army also closed on the front ranks of skinchangers and magically quickened flaming falchions cut a staggering path, threatening to push straight through to the mage congress in the center of Midgard’s forces.

Those wizards had an opinion on that, and it was terrible. The strength of Vishvamitra was exhausted and fate no longer bent for the Golden Army. The sky once again split open and this time hardly a blast smashed down that Yakasha or Gandaharva bodies were not flung in bloody heaps. Dozens upon dozens of the divine warriors lay piled in charred lifeless heaps.

Then the arrows came again, and the forward regiment of skinshifters was completely destroyed. The Golden Army charged forward eagerly as there was now nothing between them and the corps of mages intent on destroying them all. More than a dozen mages were slain in this charge. Then the Great Mother stepped forward.

As yet another overwhelming deluge of lighting rained down, the Great Mother led the rear regiment of skinshifters forward, trampling a terrible hole in the Golden Army’s lines into which skinshifters poured. The Golden Army was mere feet from slaying the Midgard sorcerers, yet those feet were filled with snarling werewolves. And the lighting rained down destroying everything it touched. Most of the Golden Army now lay lifeless, yet the Atavi archer corps were relatively untouched and the frontlines finally included Midgard wizards.

Now when the arrows came mages died by the score. Yet the Great Mother had shrugged off near fifty Soul Slays and Paralyzes with no magical hardening save her strong dominion and no matter how many mages were slain the lighting continued to rain down in an irresistible barrage, bringing the Golden Army to its knees.

As the last dozen golden warriors closed ranks, to quickly become surrounded by the remaining skinshifters, the skinshifters made a critical mistake and charged forward in mass, thus concentrating the last of their forces. As the last of the golden army was blasted by lighting the flaming arrows fell wiping out the critical amount of Midgard’s forces. Midgard broke and ran, yielding the field to 5(!) Yakasha and 110 Atavi archers. The Great Mother led the remaining score of wizards off in a route….which was cut off by two Kinnara heroes flying through the night to cut off their escape.

GG Anticipatient, that was truly an epic figh!

[JimMorrison]

Wow Baalz! :o

You should save that file, I am sure I'm not the only one intrigued by your colorful description. :D

[Xietor]

nice description Baalz! Regrettably your conquest of Midguard puts you over the 40 province mark, and your nation has now been offically labeled a public menance. :doh:

Since the nation of LA Arcoscephale is a peaceful, trading nation, we do not have many tales of war and conquest to tell. We could rattle on about cornering the market on certain items and gems, but that is hardly the stuff of legend.

[Xietor]

True to my word, I did ask llamabeast to take over the administration of Kingsmaker. Unfortunately he refused to do so(: You are stuck with me. I did think he would be better suited for at least a couple reasons. One he is no longer in the game and is by definition impartial. And two, he has control over that mysterious MA Man nation. That notwithstanding, his involvement will remain limited to arena events.

[Lingchih]

Sounds like a nice fight. Post a turn file for us to look at it.

[anticipatient]

I think I killed something like 140+ "golden warriors." It was a pretty close thing, really.

[Baalz]

Sounds like a nice fight. Post a turn file for us to look at it.

I've saved the turn, I'll post it after the games over. State secrets and all....

[Meglobob]

Really good write up Baalz but I am so out of touch in this game, that its not even funny, I thought Baalz died playing Ma Oceania? Whats he doing commanding golden warriors (Ea Kalissa?!?), I thought Hadrian was in charge. Oh! I am so lost and out of touch.

[Zeldor]

Isn't it last turn Baalz plays Kailasa? Too bad Midgard was doomed from the beginning. Maybe some experienced player could stand more resistance, but it was far from fair match, so that result is not surprising.

[Xietor]

Baalz took over Kailasa as a long temporary sub for Hadrian who is on vacation.

I would not be overly concerned how many turns Baalz subs for. He can sub for as long as Hadrian wants him to. There is no limit on how many turns your can have a sub take.

[Zeldor]

I didn't say I have smth against it, I just remember that Hadrian should be coming back soon. He will be probably really happy :)

And I think you have bigger worries around you now, Xietor. What was all that rant about evil Agartha, when you need to prepare your capitol soldiers to fight teleporting tartarians? But he cannot afford more than 5-8 a turn, so don't worry :)

[Xietor]

As MA Ctis in Fallacy found out when he teleported a bunch of tartarians at me in Fallacy,
Xietor does not need tartarians to kill tartarians.

In fallacy, the Ctis tartarians all went home in body bags. Any tartarians porting on top of my capital in Kingmaker will suffer a similar fate. So I am not worried. Far from it. I could use some free tartarians. Especially ones that can travel.

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[Baalz]

Isn't it last turn Baalz plays Kailasa? Too bad Midgard was doomed from the beginning. Maybe some experienced player could stand more resistance, but it was far from fair match, so that result is not surprising.

Anti played a great game from a disadvantaged position. He basically destroyed my entire primary army and did better than most would have. That's not only a rude statement, its not very accurate.

[Zeldor]

Baalz:

Oh, I guess I have misjudged that situation over there a bit. I wish I had more scouts there :) I meant no disrespect for anti, I just said it was quite sad to watch him go down so fast. When I heard about the war starting I really hoped he can survive longer. Too bad he came into game and faced threat like that, before getting accustomed with his own nation.

[Xietor]

In celebration of the college football season starting tonight, and a full slate of games this Saturday, hosting time for Kingmaker will be set back an additional 48 hours to allow players to enjoy tonight and the 1st weekend of college football without worrying about invasion from Giants, or undead etc.

This gratuitous delay coincides with Llamaserver being down for maintenance for 48 hours, so the game would have been delayed in any event, but it is the thought that counts!:)

[DrPraetorious]

Clarification:
*this* turn should be done with 3.17. *next* turn should be done with 3.20. Correct?

[Xietor]

i updated to 3.20. llamaserver is already 3.20. so I will be sending in my turn with the new version. However, Llamabeast says it does not matter which version you use for this turn, but next turn must be 3.20.

However, to play it safe, i am using the same version as the server.

[Foodstamp]

In celebration of the college football season starting tonight, and a full slate of games this Saturday, hosting time for Kingmaker will be set back an additional 48 hours to allow players to enjoy tonight and the 1st weekend of college football without worrying about invasion from Giants, or undead etc.

This gratuitous delay coincides with Llamaserver being down for maintenance for 48 hours, so the game would have been delayed in any event, but it is the thought that counts!:)

Awesome, I have a live fantasy football draft (aka an excuse to drink beer and grill burgers) this Saturday so the extra time will be put to good use :). Thanks!

[Hadrian_II]

I didn't say I have smth against it, I just remember that Hadrian should be coming back soon. He will be probably really happy :)


When i left i was a mini empire, and after i return kailasa is huge, and has just crushed 2 false pretenders.

Thanks a lot baalz for the subbing:up:

[Xietor]

An unexpected problem has arisen. New Orleans may be under a mandatory evacuation order before Llamaserver comes back up. They are talking about a mandatory evacuation of the city 8/30/08, the same day Llamaserver is expected back up. As you might imagine, that also leaves me with many things to do today besides dominions.

If that happens, I will be out of the loop indefinitely(3-4 days) and will not be able to do anything to the game(while many may be quietly cheering at that prospect). But I will not be able to change Hadrian back, will not be able to make sure that everyone has a fresh 48 hours to get in their turns, and will likely stale turn myself(though I will certainly look for a sub).

To make matters worse, 2 weeks ago my laptop died(wtg HP) and some tech told me it would be cheaper to buy a new one than repair my 2 year old HP laptop. So I do not have the means to do stuff even if my hotel has internet.


Llamabeast has quite recently said he does not have the time to admin. this game, and
I prefer not to get anyone playing in the game to admin. it while I am away. And I am also not likely to turn over the keys to anyone i do not know well. But i will try to think of something, but the game may just be on autopilot for 3 or 4 days.

The worst effect of that will be Hadrian will have to continue to watch his capable sub wreck havoc on the world, and it is going to be pot luck what the game timer will be when the server comes back online.

"[Mayor] Nagin said during an earlier City Hall briefing that it is "very probable" he will call a mandatory evacuation for New Orleans, though likely not any sooner than Saturday morning."

[Baalz]

Oh, that's no worry, I can forward the turns easy enough. Also have a place to stay in Houston if you need one.

[Xietor]

Thanks for the offer Baalz.

I have close relatives in Houston myself, though it looks as though we may be visiting relatives in Dallas this time(: My football fan relatives are in Houston, and it is closer to New Orleans, so that was my vote. Since we are going to Dallas, you can see the value of my vote in my household(:

[Xietor]

Jazzepi will be taking over the administration duties of Kingmaker until further notice.
My day has consisted of boarding up windows, packing, helping my 84 year old neighbor prepare her house, etc. for a possible round two with Mother Nature.

All sub requests etc. should be given to Jazzepi.

[Falkor]

Good Luck and come back healthy!
:)

[Tichy]

Good luck XIetor! We await your return.

[LoloMo]

Stay safe, Xietor!

[Zeldor]

I wanted to say smth rude about football delay, but I will just say that - do not break your own rules again.

And good luck over there. And think building 'normal' houses over there. You know, bricks and stone.

[Amhazair]

I wanted to say smth rude about football delay, but I will just say that - do not break your own rules again. The football thing was a joke. The llamaserver was down for 48h in any case, so Xietor thought about giving it a reason, instead of having to blame technical dificulties. :D

[Zeldor]

Oh, it looked serious :) I was away for 3 days so I thought it was posted before llamaserver announced server going down.

[Xietor]

Thanks for the well wishes. I made it safely to Dallas!

[DrPraetorious]

I want hammers.

For each hammer, I will give 11 earth gems, and one item (that I can forge), at *0.6 cost. I have a shortage of earth mages, see.

So, for example, for 6W6F and a Hammer, I would give 11E and a Rune Smasher. I can make most stuff but not everything. If you want blood items I'll take gems instead of blood slaves, 1 gem for 2 blood slaves.

I'd also be very keen to rent a robe of the magi from someone so I can make rings of sorcery/wizardry.

[Xietor]

I guess with the number of players reduced to almost the size of a normal large mp game we can dispense with the trading house thread?

I see from the score tables 5 races with over 50 provinces, with a couple knocking on the door to 60. LA Agartha research is off the charts, and in combination with other factors,
would have to be considered the leader.

But the game is not close to finished. To my knowledge, no race has anywhere close to 15 capitals, though i may get Llamabeast to post the number of capitals the 5 leaders have at
turn 50.

[Xietor]

As the neighbors of LA Tien Chi now know, Ruin, the presence of whom makes all sane beings tremble, gated himself into the heart of LA Tien Chi's land in an effort to save some rare artifacts of Lizard culture from being destroyed by the uncouth barbarians sacking EA Ctis' capital.

Since LA Arcoscephale is a land of scholars, poets, and historians, we could not, in good conscience, stand idly by and watch the last remnants of Lizard heritage be lost to the world forever. So the warrior poets went to war to preserve artifacts of a lost civilization.

Ruin has now laid claim to the lands of the Barbarian King. And he takes a dim view of province poaching. Any province poaching of LA Tien Chi lands will be dealt with harshly.

While LA Arcoscephale is a small nation made up of peaceful warrior poets, Ruin does not have much poet in him. Ruin likes war, and it is a strain on the Council to restrain him if he feels he has been provoked.

[Herode]

Ladies & gentlemen,

Not a very interesting post for many of you here but I really wanted to present my apologizes to EA R'lyeh for a mistake I made earlier in this thread :

I wrote on 2 occasions at least that R'lyeh broke the NAP we had signed because I thought that breaking a NAP means : putting an end to the NAP :"we have NAP 5 and I'll attack you in 5 turns, end of the peace".
Which is correct and fair.

But it looks like "breaking a NAP" actually means : "I have a NAP5 with you but I'll attack you before those 5 turns anyway". Which is dubious and unfair.

I want to insist of the fact that EA R'lyeh didn't broke any NAP with me in this meaning. He just put an end to the NAP we had. Sorry for the mistake then, and back to the ultimate war. Good luck for the survivors !

[DonCorazon]

The heads of the Sidhe lords and their pretender enchantress now decorate the Mead Hall in Utgard. Vengeance is bittersweet though.

I know Cleveland has taken a break for the time being but nevertheless, we take our eyepatches off to salute his valiant and creative efforts that seriously knocked Utgard off our once proud trajectory.

We still have many more books to burn and civilizations to wreck however so if you see the horde, then run.

[Darkwind]

I dispute Ruin's claim to T'ien Ch'i's lands. It seems that the god of the Barbarian Kings has assigned to me the ownership of T'ien lands. I am afraid, Ruin, that you will not be getting all of T'ien Ch'i's lands, not without a fight. I do not wish for war with Arcoscephale, but if the Hoplites wish to test their mettle on the lances of the Black Knights then so be it. The Anons are waiting.

-Anonymous Black Priest Under the Power of Monny

P.S. Anon the Black Priest (as in prophet of Monny, not one of those other Anons) here. Do you know what an Iron Blizzard feels like? I don't but it's a bit disturbing watching tiny steel darts go through a man's flesh like so many miniature arrows, and even more so when the man begins to unravel before your eyes as the very essence of divinity is expelled from him. Take my word for it, if you will.

[Tichy]

EA C'tis will have the world know that MA C'tis has broken a longstanding NAP with no provocation or warning with a massive sneak attack. We call upon all free nations to respond to this outrage appropriately.

[Digress]

MA C'tis admits to its extremely poor etiquette but takes umbrage that it could possibly be characterized as a sneak attack.

When we saw the temples of C'tis befouled by hordes of barbarians (literally) we felt we should act with all necessary speed. We shall do what we can to keep what remains of the C'tissian homeland C'tissian, that is a foul, disease-ridden bog of interest to no-one.

[Zeldor]

It looks like LA ARco is the biggest aggressor in the world - big, rich, arrogant and attacking only in packs. It is LA ARco that had no 1:1 wars [was it 2:1 or 3:1 against Abysia?]. Now they destroy TC x:1 and threat betrayed small EA C'tis with same actions.

And I though Xietor had at least some remnants of honour and was interested in at least somewhat challenging wars. It seems I was really wrong :(

[Tichy]

MA C'tis: We will accept the explanation that it is a misunderstanding, but you will need to leave our lands immediately.

LA TC is no longer a threat to us. If we were being overrun we would have contacted you and released you from the NAP, because it would have been the neighborly thing to do. Furthermore, none of the lands that border you were ever under LA TC's occupation, and if you were paying attention you would have seen that we *retook* a fort with a large force last turn, and this turn have sieged the last fort that LA TC had ever taken from us.

The fact that you did not contact us and attacked without warning is a breach of the NAP, simple as that. The only honorable course of action for you is to reverse the error and vacate. If you do so, I will also reverse the more pungent opinion of your actions that I voiced privately.

[Xietor]

score graphs turn 50:

http://www.llamaserver.net/showScores.cgi?game=KingMaker

la Arcos,with all due respect, has barely half the research of la Agartha, and 2/3 the provinces.

We also fought ea abysia after ma tien chi was all but beaten, and started the war against la tien chi when ea ctis was all but beaten. And we ported our immortal pretender into a province 2 squares from la tien chi's capital.

When you port your immortal pretender into the heart of an enemy's empire to start a war, we can talk.

Had we wanted an easy war, we would have attacked ma tien chi whose lands connect to our own, and who had a small nation. Instead, we risked our pretender and went to war with a nation in a distant area of the world, where we had no connecting border, who had more capitals than we did. Why la tien chi when ma tien chi was closer and much easier? Correct, we wanted to have some fun. and ma tien chi would not have been much of a challenge.



And we never sold out ea ctis. we have had no contact with ma ctis at all this game. In fact, it was at the invitation of EA Ctis that Ruin entered this fray. So EA Ctis had nothing to fear from Ruin.

[Digress]

we have had no contact with ma ctis at all this game.

MA C'tis says hello :wave:

[Micah]

"When you port your immortal pretender into the heart of an enemy's empire to start a war, we can talk."

Ha, I'm pretty sure Zeldor's Pretender did, in fact, do just that.

[Foodstamp]

If you are talking about the fight at Ashdod, that wasn't a pretender ;).

[Tichy]

What caused the problem for me was the post a ways back that made it seem like I was being overrun, when that wasn't the case, in part due to the assistance the gated pretender in question provided. (That and a couple nice new spells in the holster.)

I was in fact rebounding and retaking land lost in the LA TC war.

I accept MA C'tis explanation for what he did, because brazenly breaking an NAP like that for no good reason would turn many other players against him in ways that wouldn't be worth the short-term gain of land. And still isn't, if he chooses to try to *keep* that land now...

If I hadn't had an NAP with him, I wouldn't have left my western frontier exposed like that while I went on bivouac in the east.

[Xietor]

A glance at the score graphs, however, would show anyone that la tien chi was sinking like the Titanic. Before last turn, ea ctis in fact owned as many provinces as la tien chi.

Ruin has done what he can do to save EA Ctis from the Barbarians. He cannot, however, save the Lizards from themselves.

[Zeldor]

Foodstamp:

Huh, you must look at everything? And he deserved to be put into HoF for that battle.

[Foodstamp]

Foodstamp:

Huh, you must look at everything? And he deserved to be put into HoF for that battle.

I have scouts in places you would not believe. For instance, I know your mother was cooking spaghetti for dinner at 6:45pm this evening.

[Jazzepi]

Foodstamp:

Huh, you must look at everything? And he deserved to be put into HoF for that battle.

I have scouts in places you would not believe. For instance, I know your mother was cooking spaghetti for dinner at 6:45pm this evening.

No rectal cavity is safe.

Jazzepi

[Tichy]

I haven't heard anything more from MA C'tis about reversing his error and removing the armies that broke treaty with me by invading my western frontier.

My wilingness to believe that it was an honest error, and not the worst kind of cowardice and basest treachery, hinges upon him making good on it, and removing his forces.

[Foodstamp]

Foodstamp knows where Waldo is.

[Tichy]

MA C'tis has informed me that he will be removing himself from my lands.

I retract all statements impugning his honor, and any requests I may have made to do him harm on my account.

Thank you.

[Xietor]

So sad to see the Lizards fight amongst themselves. The spirit of Bones, the former ruler of MA Ctis, is glad to see reconciliation amongst the lizards. natural allies if there ever were any.

LA Arcoscephale could not imagine harming EA or MA Arcoscephele. What a travesty that would be.

Ruin casts his piercing vision outward, ever seeking Utgard, the destroyer of the Golden Age. With each breath the giants draw Ruin's ire increases. The world needs a symbol. A sign of Ruin's divine might.....Something the peoples of the world can believe in.

[atul]

So, you either casting a global or attacking Utgård?

Since, the usual signs of great power, artifacts and unique summons are gone and you've got none. There's still some global slots left. ;p

[DonCorazon]

Touch Utgard and we will make your pretender's name an apt one to describe the fate of your nation. Look to Eriu as an example of what befalls the foolish intellectuals that think books can teach them how to fight.

We will assume your message was the result of a Friday night Arcosphalean orgy that led to some bold, alcohol-induced bravery. Any more such messages will bring down the wrath of the horde upon thee.

PS In the meantime, to my longstanding allies and anyone else interested in silencing the oracles LA Arcos, please PM me.

[Xietor]

No ooc here.

Anyone who felt bad about picking on a noob, should take off the kid gloves when dealing with Darkwind. He ignored his nap with me and attacked me, despite my sending him a pm to make sure he understood what it meant. He confirmed he knew that he had to wait to attack me, but did so anyway.

Luckily for me, I always hope for the best, and prepare for the worst. But I do want to call him out as untrustworthy. In my long history of playing Dominions, going back to Dominions II, I have never broke a nap no matter how tempting. That is a record I am proud of.

And while i know some players think treachery is roleplaying etc., I never roleplay when it comes to making treaties/trades etc. If you give me some many gems for an item, you get the item. If you get me to agree to a nap, I honor it, even if it costs me the game.

To each his own style of play. I am sorry you chose to follow the path you did Darkwind.
Especially when it will avail you nothing. You ambushed 2 banelords with a huge army. Both banelords are now in the Hall of Fame. You attacked a castle and killed the pd and 9 mechanical men.

I hope it was worth it.

[Zeldor]

I think we all see now who is the real threat and power aspiring for winning the game. While Xietor did all the propaganda against Caelum, Agartha, Helheim, Niefel he was secretly hoarding gems to put the most powerful gem maker. He also invades small weak neighbours.

I hope LA Arco neighbours realise that there is something bad behind their borders and decide to clear that mess.

[Xietor]

Zeldor, reading comprehension is not your strong suit. MA Ulm attacked me. I did not attack MA Ulm. He sent me a PM telling me he wanted LA Tien Chi's lands.

I said(actually being a nice guy), what provinces do you want? He said I need capitals. I said regrettably, it looks as if I am only going to get one of LA Tien Chi's capitals as it is.
The other 2 are being contested by interlopers. And he said well I want the one you have. I said I am afraid you would have to go to war with me to get that one capital from me.

He said war it is. At that point, I reminded him of our nap, and said I accept his pm as notice of termination, and explained he needs to wait before attacking. He said he understood. Then he attacked me.

LA Arcoscephale is a small peaceful nation. We are only defending ourselves from a ruthless unprovoked attack. An attack that ignored a nap.

Why did LA Agartha attack MA Atlantis? LA Agartha has over 24000 research. When LA Arcos breaks 16000 let me know. we will pop the wine corks because we will have 2/3 as much research as la Agartha. But wait, by then you will have 28000(: oh well.

[Darkwind]

We had a 2-turn NAP. You reminded me, the turn before last I believe (although knowing me, I could have quite easily have forgot and thought it was the second turn so there you have it), of said NAP so we were on the same train of thought. I guess we were not (or perhaps we were until I presumably added another turn to the game in my head). What do you mean by interlopers anyway? I'm fairly sure the war was originally between EA C'tis and LA T'ien Ch'i, not between T'ien Ch'i and you.

At any rate, LA Arcoscephale is not small at all, and I somewhat doubt that it is peaceful (I remember something about attacking LA T'ien Ch'i when you didn't even have borders with them, which I do not see as much of a peaceful move).

Finally, I wouldn't break a treaty in Kingmaker should I roleplay (which I do in fact do). Monny is not an untrustworthy person (or stone, really). I suppose Anon is though.

One last thing before this post is over. I did not expect to win Kingmaker. I'm a bit surprised I survived as long as I have as is. My hopes right now are a) to actually survive this war, winning or no, or b) to have a really awesome AAR made out of my death (perhaps even two if I'm lucky). :)

[Twan]

Erf I staled a second time, thinking the turn length was now 72hr.

Anyway for the ultra peaceful sleeping kingdom of ME Arco it doesn't make a big difference.

I was already asking for a sub as I've lost motivation and don't have much time to play these days (would be a good moment to start a war, but just thinking about having to spend 3-4 hours a turn scripting my communions convinced me to rather search a replacement).

(I played this one to avoid to cripple the realm too much, and will be carefull not to stale the next if a sub isn't found)

[Xietor]

Hi Twan,

All you need is a war to get the juices flowing. Too many years of peace in dusty libraries
allows the points of your spears to dull and your generals to get fat from wine.

In any event, with your awesome research, you may at least want to test those communions on someone before handing the game off to a sub. Good luck either way and thanks for playing.

As to the length of the game's turns, here is the quote from the 1st post of the Original Kingmaker thread:

Speed: 24 hours per host for the first 18 turns moving to 48 hours per host until around turn 70+ in which it moves to 72.

So we have another 18 turns until the 72 hour hosting kicks in.

EA Oceania is now AI. Thanks for playing Herode. Good game. The water races are now beginning to dwindle. Only MA Atlantis, EA Atlantis, and EA Ryleh remain.

[Zeldor]

Xietor:

MA Atlantis was the one that attacked me and killed my pretender twice. They expected some easy gains and now they are paying price for their greed and arrogance.

And you are surely in top5 nations in that game, so act like a man. We don't want to hear you crying about how bad your situation is. Attack someone at least remotely close to you in power. And don't do it 3:1.

[Xietor]

Zeldor.Tsk tsk. I am not "crying" about how bad my situation is. In no way do I imply I fear to fight a war with Ulm. Just pointing out the violation of a NAP. And it is not in my interest to let Kingmaker know who I am at war with, but i felt the overriding issue was to point out the nap violation. It is not a situation like EA Ctis/MA Ctis. I am not trying to get Ulm to withdraw his forces and all will be forgiven. Far too late for that.......

Ruin will declare war on whom he wants, and will not be baited by anyone into attacking a foe for the benefit of someone else. While Zeldor may want to see a bloodbath among the contenders in the East, and it will occur in due time I am certain, as only one race can ascend, it will not happen any sooner no matter how many posts you make calling for nations to fight tougher opponenets.

:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:

[Zeldor]

Could Sybils also tell who is the victim of Niefel invasion? :) And if you didn't write about Ulm sieging your fort I'd do it, necromancers of Agartha like to keep the world informed with all important news :)

[Xietor]

The Sybils see all. But Sybils are not in the habit of giving out free information. If you like giving out free information, that is your business. We know who Niefelheim attacked, and for a price we will tell.

As to the other information, does it have relevance? Ask the ghosts of the LA Atlantis Alliance from the last Big Game. It is not who strikes the first blow, no matter how mighty(and I am referring to LA Atlantis Alliance's mighty blow not Ulm), that determines who wins a war.

[Lingchih]

I always attack on the second turn of an ending 3 turn NAP. Takes the opponent off guard.

Whoops, I'll but out now.

[Xietor]

In an interesting turn of events, EA Atlantis, telling the world of foul treachery by a land race, has declared war on all land races!

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/a5cbba9c9aa157e13934d8a54698e4c32g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=bzpmjnmxxwd&thumb=5)

Sybils have confirmed the EA Atlantis Flags now fly over the lands Lanka, Kailasa(when it rains it pours), LA Man, and Niefelheim. These Basalt Kings mean Business.:D:D:D

We salute the Basalt Kings for having some fun on their way out of Kingmaker.

[DrPraetorious]

Treachery? We delivered our 30 water gems, as we agreed. That we delivered an invasion on the same turn is hardly *treacherous*.

It's a sign of manly respect for our neighbors!

[Xietor]

On turn 53, LA Agartha shattered the 60 province barrier with 63.

Close on his heels is LA Marignon with 58, EA Heilheim with 58, EA Niefelheim with 57,
LA Caelum with 54, and since Zeldor considers LA Arcos to be a world power, I will add 46 provinces for LA Arcos.

[Tichy]

Grumpy the Lizard says: Dang Basalt King, get outta my yard!

[Zeldor]

Xietor:

I'd say EA Niefel, EA Helheim, EA Lanka [look at the speed he is devouring Kailasa], LA Mari, LA Caelum, LA Arco, MA Bandar, MA C'tis, EA Mictlan are strongest nations now. MA Mari [2caps], EA Fomoria [2? caps], MA Arco [2 caps], EA Tir [3 caps] are also far from dead. And don't forget about EA R'lyeh :)

[Xietor]

History repeats itself from the last Big Game, with Lanka killing Kailasa. Will history repeat itself further and MA Ctis kill off Lanka?

Only the Sybils know for sure.