KingMaker - let the Ascension War commence!

[llamabeast]

Okay, we are having a new thread now the game has started, the old one having reached an incredible 50 pages. The old thread is here (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=d3maars&Number=600793&page =0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1).

First of all, things you will need. The map is here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?9x2uxxvfkmb

A brand-new, updated version of the mod is attached to this post. You don't need this if you have the old one, but if fixes a few minor issues such as the fact that four nations didn't have the proper flag.

Another piece of important info that people may or may not have seen is that there will be a reward for the winner of the Arena death match. The winner will get 1000 gold. I am thinking that 2nd place (the hero who gets the most kills) may also get a prize of 500 gold or so, but I have to discuss this with Xietor. Suggestions for scaling the arena reward through the game are also most welcome.

Right, let the game begin! Many thanks to Xietor, who has done an incredible job in organising this game. Thanks also to Dr P, who I understand did a great deal of work with the map and also helped with some modding stuff, and to the many contributors to the mod, including Zepath, Slobby, Twan and Sombre.

The players are:

EA Arcoscephale - Cor2
EA Ermor- Slobby
EA Ulm – DaveCG
EA T'ien Ch'i- AI (was Cicadian)
EA Oceania- Herode
EA Fomoria- Tyrant
EA Marverni - Griefor
EA Sauromatia - Bernardo
EA Mictlan - Meglobob
EA Lanka - Falkor
EA Abysia- Bananadine
EA Caelum - Janim
EA C'tis - Tichy
EA Agartha - nozshand
EA Tir na n'Og - Reay
EA Vanheim - Wokeye
EA Helheim - Foodstamp
EA Niefelheim - Dr. Praetorious
EA Kailasa - Hadrian_2
EA Yomi - Kristoffer O
EA Atlantis - Agema
EA R'lyeh - Zoshan
EA Hinnom - Dryaunda

MA Arcoscephale - Twan
MA Ermor - Unoptimized
MA Pythium - AI (was Yandav)
MA Ulm - Darkwind
MA Marignon - Zenzei
MA Mictlan - Sum1lost
MA T'ien Ch'i - Revolution
MA Machaka - AreaofEffect
MA Agartha - Cidi
MA Abysia - Moderation
MA Caelum - Cupido2
MA C'tis - Digress
MA Vanheim - seryozha
MA Jotunheim - BigandScary
MA Bandar Log - Atul
MA Shinuyama - Ottergreat
MA Atlantis - MrSparkle
MA R'lyeh - Salamander8
MA Oceania - Baalz
MA Eriu - Cleveland
MA Ashdod - Gregstrom

LA Bogarus -Jazzepi
LA Arcoscephale - Xietor
LA Pythium - Lingchih
LA Man - Drake49
LA Marignon - AdmiralZhao
LA Mictlan - EvilHomer
LA T'ien Ch'i - Ossa
LA Jomon - Hoplosternum
LA Agartha - Zeldor
LA Abysia - Baruk
LA Caelum - Lolomo
LA C'tis - llamabeast
LA Pangaea - Amhazair
LA Midgard - coobe
LA Utgard - DonCorazon
LA Patala - AI (was Firewalker)
LA Atlantis - Shigure
LA Gath - JimMorrison

[Herode]

Great !! I have nothing to say but I just wanted to be the first one posting here. V !! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Twan]

Everything look fine.

(@ Herode : me too)

[atul]

Bandar Log sets the way by being the first one to submit turn instead of wasting time on idle chatter!

To baldly go where no ape has gone before!

[Salamander8]

atul said:...To baldly go where no ape has gone before!


Baldly go? I would think that Bandar Log would be the opposite of bald! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[atul]

That's something not to be discussed in polite company! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[AlgaeNymph]

llamabeast said:
Many thanks to Xietor, who has done an incredible job in organising this game. Thanks also to Dr P, who I understand did a great deal of work with the map and also helped with some modding stuff, and to the many contributors to the mod, including Zepath, Slobby, Twan and Sombre.

And also thanks to Llamabeast for...something important. I don't remember what exactly, but I know we should all be thankful. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[DonCorazon]

Thanks to all the folks who put this together.
- DC, the Reluctant Leader of Utgard, Loser of Three-Roll Offs, and Eater of Filth and Lots Of Pizza

[Xietor]

The Map looks better. More great work from llamabeast! You are tireless.

And my map position improved mightily with the 2nd reroll. No longer is my land nation stuck on a sliver of land surrounded by evil water races! Of course I will have to keep an eye peeled for evil bless rush nations.

A couple of notes. LA Mictlan is being played by Evilhomer. So if you spot some nasty jaguar warriors and need to do some quick diplomacy(he is not known for mercy-you are wasting your breath) he is the one to contact.

The game will host on a 24 hour schedule once we are sure there are no issues with the game. Do not be fooled by the delay in hosting between turn 1 and turn 2.

If you are having issues getting the map downloaded, getting the mod to work, or anything else, you need to post.
Merely not doing your turn WILL NOT make me assume the problem is technical in nature or on our end.

That said, with the uncertainty of the start and to give everyone a chance to get things working, we had a bonus delay between turn 1 and turn 2. But once we host to turn 2, the game will host every 24 hours without delay. I will be ruthless in keeping that hosting schedule until such time as the scheduled 48 hour delay is reached(check original thread for that).

There will be no delays granted for ANY reason due to the sheer number of players. If you have an emergency, let me know and your race will not be set to ai if you stale, and i will try to find you a temp sub(though you should also try as it is ultimately your responsibility). But the game will not be delayed. If you are going to be gone for an extended period, and no sub can be found, your race will have to be put on AI.

[Zeldor]

Bleh, my starting position really really really sucks. I have no idea how could someone approve it for starting :/ I think someone owes me 50% of his income for having the game restarted...

[Zenzei]

Played my first turn. My new starting loc isn't as good as the one I got at the first try(had 7 neighbor provinces!) but it's still nice enough.

Oh, the KingMaker mod has sweet logo. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[Xietor]

Sorry about that Zeldor(: What province number did you start on? I will take a look at it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[nozshand]

Zenzei said:
Played my first turn. My new starting loc isn't as good as the one I got at the first try...



same here, last time i started at a corner :/

oh well, here i come whoever got my corner http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[coobe]

the map download doesnt work for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[llamabeast]

In what way doesn't it work when you try it? Clicking the mediafire link should take you to the mediafire website, which should say "Preparing download" or something for a minute, before changing to "Click here to start download". What happens for you?

[coobe]

this is what mediafire says:

The quickkey you provided for file download was invalid. This is usually caused because the file is no longer stored on Mediafire. This occurs when the file is removed by the originating user or Mediafire.

[Zeldor]

I had the same. Close it, maybe restart browser. Try opening the link again.

[Gregstrom]

I had that issue until I stopped closing the popunder before trying the download. I don't know if there's a link between the two, but it might be worth a try.

[coobe]

it works now, thanks for your help =)

[llamabeast]

Good stuff.

[anticipatient]

i'm subbing for ich subbing for someone else. . but i may not have the best availability for some of this weekend. so i'll do my best, but i may have to ask for a slight delay.

[llamabeast]

Maybe you should get a sub http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Incidentally, if anyone wants a delay or anything like that, Xietor is the man to ask. He is the admin for this game, so I will try not to tread on his toes by doing any admin stuff myself.

[Twan]

You know... if all these guys ask for temporary subs, it's because it's stated since the beginning that there will be... no delay.

But you may ask for someone to sub the sub of the sub of.... etc http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Lingchih]

It was my understanding that there will be no delays, period, until well into the game. I would hope this holds, since the game has been delayed so long already.

[JimMorrison]

Just a note to anyone who asks for a delay -

There are ~60 nations in the game. If you think you might want to ask for a delay at least once in any given 2 month period, that is exactly why no one wants to allow delays in this game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif I mean, you could just not process any turns at all, and imagine the whole game. That way everyone ends up a winner, and no one has to wait around for anything. If that's the case, I vote we start another megagame ASAP, so I can get in on it. <3

[Xietor]

Jim, I need your email address. The turn(ea caelum)will host at 1800 gmt sat, and I want to get it sent to you.

There will be no delays. With 61 players the game will move inexorably towards the midgame with zero delays granted for any reason.

Players need to find their own subs, as it is too time consuming for me to it. I made an exception for janim(ea caelum) because he did find a sub, but his sub refused to give me his email address for whatever reason(: Hence he was not the most useful of subs.

Edit: Jim, I was able to procure your email address and EA Caelum's turn number 1 was sent to you. Good Luck!

[Amhazair]

Xietor said:
Hence he was not the most useful of subs.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif I like how you phrased that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[moderation]

Bleh, I also went from a very nice starting province with 7 neighbors to a rather porr one with nowhere near the amount of resources. And Abysia really needs it's resources. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Xietor]

in the end, whether your position is good or not will depend on whether you start next to friendly neighbors, or a heavy bless aggressive one that is attacking your capital on turn 3 or 4.

[JimMorrison]

Okay, so a couple of notes on the Kingmaker mod.....

First thing that strikes me, there are NO level 6 spells in any school? Is this intentional....? I didn't go hunting around to see if they were shoved into 5 and 7, but even if they were, what?

Second, Personal Luck is set to level 0? Doesn't that give nations with an awake SC an incredible advantage? I mean normally if you make attacks in the first several turns with your pretender, your buffs are pretty much limited to Air Shield and Twist Fate, no? Adding in Personal Luck, and Breath of Winter, could give a huge advantage. Forgive me if these spells were specifically discussed in the other thread, 750 posts is more than I could stomach.

(Edit: Also, all of the Evocations that were moved to 0 are water, fire, and astral..... why not, say, Vine Arrow or Lightning Bolt?)

Also, Bind Spine Devils, and Bind Bone Fiends are set to level 0? Again, this seems to give a very compelling start of game advantage to blood nations, as they can research in other directions and yet with just a small amount of effort, get a squad of flying demons together.



On a lighter note, Elephant Corps on turn 1??? What happens if multiple nations bid 400g, is the winner selected randomly?

[Xietor]

Since the game is a very large one, many players wanted the research set on hard(me) or very hard. There was a large contingent that wanted very hard. However, that would have given the bless nations too great an early advantage.

So the research was modded to make the lower level spells normal, and level 7-9 very hard. There are so major issues with how you can mod spells.

So that required some quicks, like moving level 1 spells to 0. It was that or having them cost 100 research points.

None of the spells are missing.

I do not have a clue what happens in ties on bids for mercenaries. I assume it is randomly given to one nation. The mod has nothing to do with mercenaries.

[JimMorrison]

Ah I see, interesting way to duct tape the scenario. I kind of think a few of those spells shouldn't be available on turn 1, but oh well, I am just sour that I don't have a Virtue or Father of Winters to play with. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

And the mercenary comment was more of a side note, I didn't mean to imply that you modded Elephant Corps to be out on turn 1..... and give yourself 405g to start, or anything like that..... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

<3

[Lingchih]

I would forget bidding on mercs in this game. Against 60 other nations? You will have to bid very high. Buy some mages instead.

[Gregstrom]

I certainly think the other 59 nations who aren't me should follow this advice very closely.

[Xietor]

I have to say I am pretty happy. With 2.5 hours to go, 59/61 races have managed to get the new map, get the mods working, and get their turns sent in.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[atul]

Yay, a new turn...

...however, the messages got cut short (last one was MA Caelum's prophet) and I don't see any info on indies around me. I'd assume it's same for others too...

IIRC it was the same thing in Perpetuality, and everything was okay next turn, after all those prophetizing messages were done for. So no need to panic, yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[JimMorrison]

Meh, I am so discombobulated! >.<

I'm sure this probably got discussed beforehand too, but am I not supposed to be able to see neighboring troops? I can't even see *any* info in the province that my scout is in.

Maybe I should just shut up and be a good little sub for a few more days, but maybe these things are stressing me out even more than they should, because I could be messing up someone's start in an epic once a year game, and I don't even know his intended strat. 8(

[Zeldor]

Some nations already took aggressive approach, heh. And I already see a neighbour...

[Twan]

I have no report about indies in neighbouring provinces as well.

I mean no information at all is displayed, even for the province where my scout is, or another when I have dom 1 (Arco scrying).

[Slobby]

JimMorrison said:
I'm sure this probably got discussed beforehand too, but am I not supposed to be able to see neighboring troops? I can't even see *any* info in the province that my scout is in.



That happened in a sp game I'm currently playing. In the sp game, the issue was resolved on the next turn, hopefully the same goes for this game.

[Kristoffer O]

if all players got themselves a prophet it would be 3600 messages in the game this turn. Scout reports are thus overridden. THings should be back to normal next turn I suppose.

[Salamander8]

Ok I was wondering about that myself as I just did my 2nd turn and all my neighboring provinces, including the one my scout is in, are giving me zero info.

[llamabeast]

Same here. Hopefully, as KO says, it will be fine next time. I think they had the same problem on the last megagame.

On the bright side, it seems like all 61 players took their turn on time. Hurrah!

By the way, I hope everyone realises that this coming turn (and all after it) is 24 hours, not 48.

[Xietor]

wow. not one stale turn. Amazing.

The problem of not seeing what units are in the province with your scout also arose in perpetuality, and appeared and disappeared from time to time.

Now that we have KO and Llamabeast in the game, maybe the root of the problem can be discovered? We had Dr. P in the 1st Big Game, but I am not sure what, if any, effort he made to determine the cause. Or if Velusion or Gandalf made any efforts.

[Meglobob]

So, to attack blind or not eh...?

I hope normality resumes next turn! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Zeldor]

Attack!!!!!!!111!!1!

[chrispedersen]

Turn 1: Cannot see neighboring strengths.
Turn 2: Cannot see neighboring strengths. Cannot see dominions. Cannot see unit icons. In my armies. Cannot see recruit icons.

Patroling seems not to have worked. Aka... I patrolled and still ended up with 30 unrest, with a tax rate of 120, and with + growth.

Basicly, I have to attack blind, or fall behind the curve.

Sucks.

[Xietor]

looks like Jazzepi, admiralzhao, and llamabeast, all with awake pretenders, were not scared of the dark.

Beware evildoers, my mage, soon to be plural, are hard at work beating a path to mind burn and horror mark. Keep those wyrms to yourselves! it would suck to get badly horror marked in your 1st war on a 900 province map!

[Foodstamp]

chrispedersen said:
Turn 1: Cannot see neighboring strengths.
Turn 2: Cannot see neighboring strengths. Cannot see dominions. Cannot see unit icons. In my armies. Cannot see recruit icons.

Patroling seems not to have worked. Aka... I patrolled and still ended up with 30 unrest, with a tax rate of 120, and with + growth.

Basicly, I have to attack blind, or fall behind the curve.

Sucks.





The 30 unrest was probably due to an event you did not get to see thanks to the prophet messages putting you over the reported event limit for the turn.

I am going to attack this turn, crosses fingers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

[DonCorazon]

Utgard not care if sneaky scout men have no report. Utgard attack anyway. Brain of Utgard giant too small to worry about Mind Burn. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Zeldor]

chrispedersen:

Press 1-9 till you get that back http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif But no neighbours info for anyone. Nor event info. I got hit by worse things http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I should be doing fine, I just hope there is no one stupid enough to attack me. I am bored with people that try to make useless early war they have no chance to win but try to slow down both nations.

[Meglobob]

chrispedersen, everyone is in the same boat, so it sucks for everybody!

The unrest will have been caused by a unlucky event, I had a extremely lucky event http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

So you see it all evens out real good... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Indies and scouting will (probably) be normal next turn, same thing happened in the 1st megagame.

[Zeldor]

I have nothing against playing blindly for 10-20 turns. That would be fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Twan]

With indies 5 I think odds are small to lose with elephants, so I don't feel really concerned.

But I'd find better to skip (stale everyone for) this kind of turns, it's a free province for the bless nations who can blind attack and be 99,99% sure to win, others basically have the choice between losing one turn of expansion or risking to lose their starting army (and so several other turns) against dark vines or knights.

[Xietor]

we had this occur in Perpetuality as well, and Velusion never staled to try and get past it. That adds problems as well.

You do not actually have to attack blind. You can actually have your scout attack instead of sneak, and set him to retreat and have him near the back. chances are he will survive.

That is what i did on turn 1. I do that in every game, not because i was anticipating a problem with scouting report. I like to actually see the army i am fighting early in the game, as it is more accurate than a scouting report, which does not include those mages that spam orb lightning.

[chrispedersen]

Not the same for everybody.

Awake pretenders, elephants, most giants. Who cares. You're beating indies most of the time, especially on turn 2.

[Jazzepi]

I have seriously no idea what my pretender just fought. At least he won.

jazzepi

[Xietor]

you did not get a battle replay? I got a battle replay and it was fine.

[Jazzepi]

No battle replay. With all the prophetically inclined scouts, I think it's just out of my reach in the message window. I patrolled successfully, as I have zero unrest, but I can't see that message either.

Jazzepi

[Xietor]

Maybe a future project would be a way to prioritize messages,
or even eliminate some messages altogether, such as other nations making a prophet. That information is of dubious value anyway.

[Jazzepi]

I very much doubt the UI is ever going to get any work. Personally, I feel it's an awful shame. Dom 3's /worst/ point is its awful UI, and extreme lack of tools to help with late game micro.

I feel it would open up the game to a whole new set of players if stuff like that were installed. I mean, the in game message system is [censored] atrocious. You can't even move a cursor around on the screen where the message is, you have to delete all the way back and you can't review your messages.

Jazzepi

[Xietor]

well,

I was not taking a shot at the whole UI, i was just saying if we can cut out the prophet messages it may help things a bit in the future. heh.

I guess that is not the kind of thing you can mod either.

[Jazzepi]

Xietor said:
well,

I was not taking a shot at the whole UI, i was just saying if we can cut out the prophet messages it may help things a bit in the future. heh.

I guess that is not the kind of thing you can mod either.



I think the UI is terrible. I'm happy to take a shot at the whole thing. At best I would call it manageable, but mostly it's just /bad/. It's difficult to find commanders, difficult to find important provinces, blah blah blah.

Anyways, I have no fear. I'm attacking with my army this turn.

Jazzepi

[Xietor]

I do not want to turn the Kingmaker Game Thread into a general forum thread for dominions III. So even though i started it with a UI suggestion, mine was game related. heh.

[Endoperez]

Jazzepi said:
No battle replay. With all the prophetically inclined scouts, I think it's just out of my reach in the message window. I patrolled successfully, as I have zero unrest, but I can't see that message either.

Jazzepi



Did you try selecting the province he fought in and pressing 'v' to view the battle? That should replay the battle.

[AreaOfEffect]

I just want to chime in and say that I made another thread suitable for discussing the UI issues. Look in the General forums for 'Issues With: The User Interface (UI)'.

I'm sure I'd love to hear Jazzepi's rant.

[llamabeast]

What Endoperez said. Use 'v' on the battle province.

[coobe]

i dont see any indies around my cap or anywhere else.
ive sended a scout and i dont get a report

what is that ?

[llamabeast]

Read the thread preceding your post coobe. Everyone has the same problem, but it is expected that it will go away after this turn.

[Jazzepi]

Endoperez said:

Jazzepi said:
No battle replay. With all the prophetically inclined scouts, I think it's just out of my reach in the message window. I patrolled successfully, as I have zero unrest, but I can't see that message either.

Jazzepi



Did you try selecting the province he fought in and pressing 'v' to view the battle? That should replay the battle.



I'll have to try that. One moment.

HUZZAH! My pretender beat up on some militia.

Jazzepi

[Xietor]

jeez, all that drama for nothing.

[AlgaeNymph]

...and I've seen the first nation that's going to die. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

By the way, I'm playing Hinnom, and I've been keeping up with the thread (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=dom3&Number=611405&page=0& view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=all). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[atul]

Well tell us too, nothing bad in some theatrics this early in game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

...um, and what's up with deathmatch thread? I found the idea of Blighting Hinnom to ground quite appropriate, too bad I'm not playing ED-nation. :E

[Darkwind]

Ulm has survived! It's a miracle!

In other news, my dominion is disappointingly low and I have a knight province with ~100 units next to my capital. That province has more units than my entire nation. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

It'll be fun to watch the looks on their pixellated faces when those silly indy Normal Knights meet my very serious Black Knights.

And finally, it appears my EA cousin hasn't conquered a province. In fact, MA Ulm has more provinces than more than a third of the nations in Kingmaker. I find that a bit ironic, since MA Ulm is often considered rather weak. Though it might not be now, after its buffing-up; I'm not too sure. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[AlgaeNymph]

atul said:
...um, and what's up with deathmatch thread?

I linked the wrong thread, but I corrected it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Foodstamp]

Well my blind attack was a success http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. Not a serf perished, although the battle scared one of them so bad he will forever be haunted by the memory (-5 Morale http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

[Xietor]

We had 2 stale turns. I will need to find out from Llamabeast what nations since the names are cut off the chart.

If the same 2 nations have not done their turn tomorrow by host time, I may pause the game briefly if we have 2 players who want to take the races over. Do not worry, if i can get get the switch done quickly, then the 2 races will just be set to AI.

I guess I will give our temp sub for ea caelum 1st choice if it happens, since he was good enough to cover for janim.

[cleveland]

I just started an anonymous poll that asks the Kingmaker players to report their pretender selection.

It could be kinda neat, seeing exactly which pretenders are being chosen, and which are being ignored.

Participation is of course strictly voluntary, but the results will be available even if you don't complete it.

It can be found here: Post#613911 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Number=613911)

It'd be very interesting if everyone in this game completed it.

Cheers,
cleveland

[chrispedersen]

I agree with Twan. I'd luck to run stale for everyone until this shakes out.

[Xietor]

It only lasted a turn. Similar to perpetuality last summer.

[chrispedersen]

Hey guys...

I cannot open my latest turn. I have enabled the mods, disabled the mods. No dice. I downloaded and unzipped - no dice.

I get a null list of nations when I look to open the game.
Kingmaker and Worthy the only two mods enabled.

Ok. I downloaded it again, and opened it. And now I can open the turn.

And I open it up to find that it says I staled. Which I know I did not do. I remember the turn distinctly, remember exactly what I built (5 levite troops and a leader). Remember which territory I attacked blind.

And, after I sent in the turn, I posted on here that I had to attack blind. Which I really didn't care for.

I don't know what heppened, since all I had to do was hit reply- but I'm already too far behind the 8 ball.

The starting conditions - not being able to see adjacent neighbors (I still can't) with weak starting troops is just too big a disadvantage.

Rather than boosting Death Match; I wish the same emphasis was made on making starting conditions fair. People make a great fuss about setting the strength of independents to 5 or 7 beneffiting rush nations. But I find this whole thing about 3 turns of not being able to see some or all of the indies strengths a MUCH bigger deal.

I'm out.

[Foodstamp]

chrispedersen said:
Hey guys...

I cannot open my latest turn. I have enabled the mods, disabled the mods. No dice. I downloaded and unzipped - no dice.

I get a null list of nations when I look to open the game.
Kingmaker and Worthy the only two mods enabled.

Ok. I downloaded it again, and opened it. And now I can open the turn.

And I open it up to find that it says I staled. Which I know I did not do. I remember the turn distinctly, remember exactly what I built (5 levite troops and a leader). Remember which territory I attacked blind.

And, after I sent in the turn, I posted on here that I had to attack blind. Which I really didn't care for.

I don't know what heppened, since all I had to do was hit reply- but I'm already too far behind the 8 ball.

The starting conditions - not being able to see adjacent neighbors (I still can't) with weak starting troops is just too big a disadvantage.

Rather than boosting Death Match; I wish the same emphasis was made on making starting conditions fair. People make a great fuss about setting the strength of independents to 5 or 7 beneffiting rush nations. But I find this whole thing about 3 turns of not being able to see some or all of the indies strengths a MUCH bigger deal.

I'm out.





You have to attach your 2h file before you hit reply. Rather than go AI, you should give your position to someone else. It is still fairly early and the only real disadvantage your nation has suffered is your mishandling of one turn, which will hardly matter several turns from now.

[chrispedersen]

[/quote]

You have to attach your 2h file before you hit reply. Rather than go AI, you should give your position to someone else. It is still fairly early and the only real disadvantage your nation has suffered is your mishandling of one turn, which will hardly matter several turns from now.

[/quote]

I know I have to attach a turn Foodstamp; thats kind of facetious. Especially as the first 2? turns completed without stales. But saying I'm down 1 turn is just idiotic especially without knowing what kind of build I took. Some builds are much more susceptible to starting conditions than others.

On turn 3 I'm still stuck building 5 crappy levites (think flagellants) or *1* decent army unit. With no territories except capital. And this is with very positive scales.

Yeah!

As for subs - I don't know anyone to ask, and anyone I did know I wouldn't.

Update: Interesting. I unloaded Dominions and loaded it again - and now I can see units in territories....

The only difference is I downloaded the kingmaker mod again, prior (third time since game restart). Wonder if it would have made a difference.

[Foodstamp]

You should allow Llama to look at your turn before you go AI. Maybe it is just an issue with your computer, and someone else may be able to see the indy provinces on their comp. Seriously, one stale is no reason to go AI over finding a sub.

[Xietor]

llamaserver actually emails you a confirmation if it receives your turn. And you can check llamaserver's web site to see if your turn has been received. On top of that, I think any player that has not sent in a turn gets an email notification that their turn has not been received.

I would not overly worry about a slow start, or even being eliminated early. The races are not equal, and some starting spots are better than others. Just have some fun. What will be, will be.

If you the slow start has got you down though, I will try and find a sub for your race in the morming US time.

[chrispedersen]

Its not fun. Sub away.

Edit: Xietor, JimMorrison wants to take the position. So unless one of the signed up temps have priority, give it to him.

[chrispedersen]

Foodstamp said:
You should allow Llama to look at your turn before you go AI. Maybe it is just an issue with your computer, and someone else may be able to see the indy provinces on their comp. Seriously, one stale is no reason to go AI over finding a sub.



Interesting, as in other post, re-downloading the kingmaker mod fixes the problem.

[llamabeast]

Rather than boosting Death Match; I wish the same emphasis was made on making starting conditions fair.



Just to set matters straight, Xietor spent tens of hours hand-placing all the start positions, an extraordinarily large task. It's also a very difficult one - it's almost impossible to get even start positions. I've spent hours doing the same for Parganos, with only 8 players. So do not think that no effort has been made on that front.

[IndyPendant]

I'll second that; I've spent hours figuring out start positions for two maps now--12 for Cradle, and 8 for Lonely Mermaid.

I would not even *consider* the idea of being so masochistic as to try to work out starting points for SIXTY-ONE nations on a single map!

No. Way. ; )

[DaveCG]

Darkwind said:
Ulm has survived! It's a miracle!

In other news, my dominion is disappointingly low and I have a knight province with ~100 units next to my capital. That province has more units than my entire nation. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

It'll be fun to watch the looks on their pixellated faces when those silly indy Normal Knights meet my very serious Black Knights.

And finally, it appears my EA cousin hasn't conquered a province. In fact, MA Ulm has more provinces than more than a third of the nations in Kingmaker. I find that a bit ironic, since MA Ulm is often considered rather weak. Though it might not be now, after its buffing-up; I'm not too sure. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif



Hey, I resent that I'm just a slow starter...very slow...ok, so what? my shaman died of old age you say? bah, what's with mages theses days http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Yeah anyway, glad to see fellow ulmmy alive and well, and don't worry, I'm fixing the no provinces thing atm with MASS DEATH AND FIRE...well...flying shards...but hey, beggars/choosers anyway, I got the greatest event ever on the second turn, I love luck scales.

ULM WILL WIN!

Not me, but one of us better, CONAN DEMANDS IT!

(I really want him in the Hof...now...so all may see...)

[Twan]

Personnally I'm a lucky coward. I had an intuition and cancelled my blind attack, fearing to lose my first elephants. And now I see it was a good idea : the province I was about to attack has 70+ troops with longbowmen and knights.

[Xietor]

Elephants>knights. My biggest fear blind would be the blood druids and their dark vines!

I did have an old email, not yet deleted(fortunately)with Jim's email. So I will insert Jim as the new owner of LA Garth
and get someone else to do ea caelum's final turn before Janim returns tomorrow.

Edit: It is done. Jim you will receive LA Gath's turn shortly and will need to do it before host time. I have asked Llamabeast to delete the turn you sent in for ea caelum.

Congrats on your new race! Chris, sorry it did not work out. We will miss you, and hope to see you in next year's Big Game!

[Twan]

Not that early, I doubt starting Arco army + 3 elephants defeats a big knights + longbowmen province (10 elephants have no problem of course).

[Xietor]

my elephants have armor younger brother.

[Zeldor]

Yeah, map is inbalanced. But starting position are made as well as possible on map like that. IF someone is really complaining about that he should simply try to make new map. And it can be used for next Kingmaker or we could start CBM Kingmkaer in autumn when many players will be out of that game.

[Xietor]

I can honestly say, with respect to the start positions, that I will never undertake to do something like it again. At the time I decided to do it, I never realized what an undertaking it would be.

Keeping track of all the starting spots, then trying to visualize where they are when you place the next one, is a challenge. Luckily I had a graphics program run by Ballbarian, that put yellow dots superimposed on the map image where i had capitals.

That helped me catch some errors, and I still have that image as the wall paper of my computer! But then some spots had to have neighbors changed, the map needed edited because dom III had flagged some as no start, etc.

But, I was in the same boat as every one else with respect to a random start, so i tried to make even the worst of them "ok" as I knew I may end up with it. While far from perfect, the flaws were not from lack of effort or time spent on my part.

[Ballbarian]

That helped me catch some errors, and I still have that image as the wall paper of my computer!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Manually adjusting start positions (especially on a map of this grand scale) is no small feat. It is exponentially more difficult when attempting to keep the starts fairly balanced.

[Twan]

I've started to make one with same kind of starts positions WoG has (minimum of 4 neutrals between 2 caps, equal number of neighbours terrains and pop around each) when Xietor asked for maps, will probably be ready for the next (but testing/fixing errors will be long).

It's easier to do when you place capitols first and draw the map around (it's just long and boring, especially when you have half the map to erase because you have forgoten the wraparound connexions making several caps too close).

[AlgaeNymph]

Xietor said:
I will insert Jim as the new owner of LA Garth

Gath, it's Gath. Likewise, "Ashgod" is actually Ashdod. /threads/images/Graemlins/PointUp.gif

[atul]

I think he does that nearly on purpose. Like, I've been "Bander" Log since Xietor first listed the nations. As if the proud apes would pander to all their neighbors' wishes! It's pure propaganda I say, propaganda!

[Xietor]

i prefer ashgod myself! heh. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

Just do not declare war on me over my slang, or i will have to correct it. pretenders=god dod too similar to dog

We Cajuns short'n and butch'a evera name until it suits our uncultured tongues.

[llamabeast]

Ashdog http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[llamabeast]

Fixed in first post, well spotted.

[Xietor]

With respect to good starting spots, if you want 61 good starting spots, 900 provinces is just too small for a random map. I do not know who ever came up with the 15 province rule of thumb, but it makes for a crowded map.

if i had a do ever, i would have made it a 1200 province map, rectangular, and no wrap. That would make for 61 good starting spots.

[Zeldor]

I would also want to know why 99% of experienced MP community always goes for 15 provs per player maps. And big part of them thinks 12 per player is even better.

[Meglobob]

Zeldor said:
I would also want to know why 99% of experienced MP community always goes for 15 provs per player maps.



It just became the accepted norm, I think 15 was/is a good balance for bless nations vs magic nations.

I really hate smaller maps with 10 provs or less per player, its a real struggle!

Bigger than 15 just slows the action (blood and mayhem) down and drags out the endgame.

[DrPraetorious]

Zeldor:
Because we fear boredom more than a lack of fairness http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Bigger maps lead to larger empires and more micromanagement; and the game has a large enough random element that some players will still get screwed.

Dominions 3 has a sizeable element of chance. As long as none of the start locations are so dreadful that you're sunk on that basis alone - and I think Xietor managed that - it's okay, I think.

[Twan]

Zeldor said:
I would also want to know why 99% of experienced MP community always goes for 15 provs per player maps. And big part of them thinks 12 per player is even better.



I'm not sure 99% of MP players do/think that (not me at least, I think I've played more games with 20+ ppp than games with 15).

Having 15 or 20 is not important anyway, as long the map is designed with well spaced and good start positions (if I rarely play 15ppp games it's mostly because they often use random maps and starts).

25+ make the game different, especially if indie strength is high as players still have room of expansion against neutrals in midgame. It's an interesting setting only if victory conditions force them to be agressive (and end the game before boredom).

[cleveland]

OK, so my earlier attempt to make a Kingmaker pretender poll failed because I can't read a calendar.

I've gone through the effort of creating a new-and-improved poll here: Post#614101 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Number=614101)

The purpose is to see which pretenders are popular given the unique setting of this game - 60 nations, all eras.

I'd like to emphasize that the results are COMPLETELY ANONYMOUS. But if you're still uncomfortable submitting your pretender selection, there are ambiguous choices available (e.g. 'I chose a Titan pretender...')

Please fill it in! It should be interesting to see what the discerning Dom3 players are choosing these days.

Cheers,
cleveland

[Zeldor]

It would be nice to send in-game message to all players about that polls.

[JimMorrison]

Well I must say, Gath's situation doesn't seem as dire as I was led to believe, though for the record, I didn't tell Chris that I wanted Gath, I told him that I wanted more info, as I didn't want to saddle myself with a terrible build, if the bad start was actually more user error than anything else. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

But now, there is a new Gath in town. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

[llamabeast]

Good stuff, thanks for stepping in Jim.

[cleveland]

Zeldor said:
It would be nice to send in-game message to all players about that polls.



Great idea. Will do.

----

Welcome to the game, Jim.

[Xietor]

I have no problem at all telling people when i have a sc pretender. It is only when i have "Bones" that you know i have my Master Lich. But if I have Bones, you can rest assured it is because I am playing a race that I feel can defend a rush without a pretender.

Since we have new races I am not familiar with, and ages I am not completely familiar with, I went with a Lich, instead of the rainbow ML. LA Arcos has some pretty serious elephants, and early communions to discourage rushes, So all things being equal the ML gives better scales for them.

But I am not trusting Niefel, or any of the new Giant races to be scared of my armored elephants, so I played it safe and went with a Lich. So now you know, but I will fill out the poll anyway.

[Hadrian_II]

Poor Kailasa.

If i knew that my lab would burn down on turn 3, i would have taken missfortune http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Xietor]

well, there will be no restarts for players who foolishly took misfortune.

In the Big Game last year the player for LA Agartha, who shall remain nameless, took 3 misf and had knights attack his capital on turn 3 or so. And it was a bit humorous on turn 20 or so after my 1st war was over and I expanded south to come across a capital just sitting there, with one or 2 provinces near it, and a group of knights residing on top of said player's capital.

"How unfortunate!" thought I.



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I think the small nations of the world should post "giant" sightings" as they observe them.

[IndyPendant]

Heh. I think Hadrian is saying he *didn't* take Misfortune.

And still had his lab burn down around him. ; )

[chrispedersen]

Thanks Xie.

Thanks for the work llama, Dr. P.

[Aezeal]

personally I like a bit more room, for a bit longer "very early" game. I like the "very early" game and it usually ends to quicly.. a but more room makes rushes a bit more difficult.

[JimMorrison]

Indeed, some people really live for the exploration phase, enjoying discovering what's going on, and the first contact with "neighbors".

I definitely love that too, but I also love the war, as most seem to (why we're here, ne?), but I would say that after some odd million SP starts, I've more and more thought that closer to 20/nation gives the best feel to the game. 15 is fine as well, but it very much pushes people towards conflict before what I consider to be the "mid game" is reached. And early game wars annoy me to no end. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

All things considered, I wouldn't really fight for the map to be even larger than 900 provinces though. Of course, there IS the Oeridia map..... o:)

[DonCorazon]

The little giants of Utgard have spotted a big squirmy worm frolicking on the shores. Is he a friendly fellow or will he supply Utgard’s sushi restaurants with Unagi for a year?
Stay tuned.

[Xietor]

the hall of fame reflects someone sc pretender has already bitten the dust(:

[AdmiralZhao]

Oh, if only the Wyrms had spent some of their millenium long lives learning how to trample. Sadly, they are trampleless, and so must instead learn to sign NAPs. Which is fairly difficult to do when you don't have hands, feet, or any other grasping appendages.

[Zeldor]

Poor Kraken...

[Agema]

Poor Squiggles.

Without a scout report from turn 2, I only had turn 3 to go on, took the risk, and was unlucky that it turned out to be about as much an underestimate as is possible. Well, I guess I'll plod on to the inevitable and keep my hopes for the next game.

[Darkwind]

In addition to all of these poor people losing their armies/pretenders/both my monitor nearly stopped working on me, which is worse, I think. I only got it to work again by turning it around, pulling and pushing on the plugs again, and turning it back. As the pulling and pushing didn't achieve anything, it seems I got my computer to work again by turning it around and back. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Thus, MA Ulm charges on!

[Xietor]

I do not think losing your pretender means you lose the game.
It does not help obviously. But the water races are a bit isolated from the rest of the world, so you have that in your favor.

And most of the water races are not played by super aggressive players. most in fact would likely sign treaties.
Baalz is pretty much the only really veteran player in the water, and even he may be reasonable since he may be looking to get just a fair share of water provinces, then move onto land.

[Agema]

It's a serious blow as points on a SC pretender are points spent on a good start instead of mid-late game power. Granted, it's far from all over.

And knowing Baalz is in the sea makes me fairly uncomfortable, recalling the last time I faced Baalz in MP... :p

[Zeldor]

Don't worry. We don't feel safe on land either http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[cleveland]

Very, very interesting poll results so far.

With 40(!) respondents, the 1st and 2nd most popular choices were the Oracle (5/40) and Monolith (4/40). I find this quite surprising, as I figured only a very small number of nations wouldn't take an SC.

Titans are leading the way (17/40), but surprisingly, nobody has yet admitted to taking a Dragon. Very unexpected.

The results are visible, even if you haven't voted, here: Post#614101 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showthreaded.php?Number=614101 ) But if you haven't voted, it's safe to say that you hate democracy... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Vote!

[Xietor]

I think the more interesting results is no one takes dragons.
Perhaps it is time to give them recuperation and maybe raise their dominion to 2. Everyone favors the wyrm over the dragon, and when that happens, maybe the dragon needs twinked.

One reason i have never taken a dragon is the low slots, low dominion, and high cost for a 2nd magical path.

[Zeldor]

cleveland:

There are surely more PoDs than in that poll.

Oracle and Monolith are so popular because S9 bless is probably best for so long game. And S9 pretender in late game is really great. Wishes! Master Enslave!

Next Kingmaker should be with CBM http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Xietor]

Maybe QM will have to host next year's mega game and use his famous MOD!. In fact, there are many things i like about the CBM, and one of them is making less used pretenders cheaper.

In fact, given how easy it would be to patch the costs of the pretenders, and KO's hate of cookie cutter ways to play nations, maybe we can actually see a merger of some of the Pretender CBM ideas with the Vanilla game.

Perhaps if the immobile pretenders could not teleport, like the sphinx, limiting their use offensively(master enslave),
we would see less of them.

You just NEVER see some pretenders. Not all magic paths are equal, and some titans have no resists, which in my book puts them behind pretenders with resists.

Father of Winter is a good Titan type pretender because he is cheap 75, has good dominion 3, has the best resist(100 cold), forest and mountain survival, 2 water and maybe the best chill aura. Contrast him to say the Lord of War.

Both of these pretender are available to MA Ulm. Lord of War costs 50, but for 25 less points, you also get a guy with only 2 dominion, 1e(a path you do not need), no resists, no terrain bonus like the Father of Winters,
no aura, and to top it off, he only has 75 hps compared to father of Winters 88! He has 2 less str, but has 2 more att, def, and prec.

So who in their right mind takes the Lord of War for 50 when you can get a Father of Winters for 25 points more? If the Lord of War in fact lived up to his name, maybe 100 hps,
Nice Magical 1h Weapon/shield, give the guy some type resist, maybe thematic with a magical shield or boots, then he would be worth buying as a sc pretender ready to take provinces on turn 1.

Now Ulm could forge the stuff for the Lord of War anyway, but if they are going to go to the trouble of forging a sword of sharpness and a shield on turns 2 and 3, they may as well get the Father of Winters, who is superior.


So maybe part of the solution is not just a cost adjustment but tinkering a bit with some of the pretenders to add a resist or magic item etc to those that are overpriced and never used.

[Zeldor]

Xietor:

So why didn't we use CBM Pretenders for that game? Not complete CBM, just that part?

[llamabeast]

I think because you always get less players for anything CBM-related, and obviously we wanted _lots_ of players.

I may try to start some CBM games soon. QM has put a lot of work into it, and I think it deserves some more MP action.

The trouble is there are always some bits people don't like. For instance, I really dislike the fact that magic-3 gives +3 to research. Just seems far too much. Personal taste I guess.

[Xietor]

Agree with LLama. If I do in fact host next year's mega game, and nothing is done with Pretenders(in the vanilla game), I likely will put that up for a vote with a strong lean towards using it.

The problem of using the entire CBM mod is the learning curve. I invited new players to play in this game, and CBM is a lot to take in. That is the same reason I did not include any of the very good mod nations in the game either. Learning curve grows every time you add a mod to the game.

There is no real learning curve with Worthy Heroes as that basically means you get a tougher hero. Kingmaker Mod did throw a few curves in, like increasing the cost for gem producing items, but nothing compared to the scale of adding the entire CBM.

And while I agree with most of QM Pretender changes-some I do not. I think the Master Lich is fine as is, and many use him at his current cost. He is not an underused pretender, and I have in fact used him to to great success in 2 of my past 4 mp games on large maps.

[JimMorrison]

Well personally I think the 1rp/M is a bit steep as well, but if you really think about the reasoning behind it, I think it makes sense as the best solution, really.

The thing with magic scale, is that like 90% of pretenders now are either M1 OR D2. Sometimes it's left even, but why leave it even when only 40 points gets you that extra rp? And likewise, if you are not in dire need of the extra rp, going drain2 gains you 80 points (120 net over the nations that have poor researchers and NEED the M). So in CBM, the paradigm is shifted, such that the choice is not so easily defined.

Ultimately though, I think a deeper change is needed in order to make the magic scale work out better. The problem is that the range of rp available on researchers, sort of works best when most people operate in a range of +/-1. It's rare to see M3 or D3, and with good reason. So in realistic terms, if CBM added 2 rp to most mages (or a bonus of 3 if they were 7/8+ already), and then recommended that for "normal" research speed you play on hard, and for "hard" research speed you play on very hard, I think you would strike the best balance for the scale.


As for pretenders, they're hard to tweak properly without testing afterwards, which isn't always going to tell the story. It does make sense not to buff a pretender that frequently gets used already though. And perhaps bumping the Lady of Rivers to 4W gems/turn was a bit much, especially considering the value of clamming. I tried her once, and I was swimming in water gems..... literally. :O

[Xietor]

i feel sorry for anyone who took d2 this game. heh. good luck
outfitting your thugs with items-unless you can trade for everything which is possible in a game of this magnitude.

[Hoplosternum]

I would have liked CBM. As a fairly new player I think it actually helps people like me. It makes other strategies/ spells/ pretenders reasonable alternatives. And as I don't yet know all the 'correct' / power gaming moves now it helps me that the others are less bad.

Although many of the experts seem to know CBM well I probably have more chance of surprising them with that mod than in Vanilla. Plus if I haven't picked the 'proper' paths CBM may well boost the sub optimal path I have picked giving me a better chance. Be that troop builds, spell choices, pretenders etc.

[Unoptimized]

How...terribly off topic. HOWEVER, while we are talking about this, I figure I will throw in my two cents. It is my opinion that you folks are talking about the magic/drain scales only from the perspective of the research bonus it provides. Now, don't get me wrong, research bonuses are nice. They give you the spells.

However, a component of the magic/drain scale which is at least as important is the fatigue bonus on spells cast. Even though going from magic 1 to magic 2 does not give you more research, it DOES allow your mages to sling around more spells. Meanwhile, the drain scale makes it harder to cast spells in your domain.

In other, game related news, my etheral virgins wound up attacking barbarians blind turn two, but they turned out all right. In case anyone was wondering http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[llamabeast]

I would have liked CBM. As a fairly new player I think it actually helps people like me. It makes other strategies/ spells/ pretenders reasonable alternatives. And as I don't yet know all the 'correct' / power gaming moves now it helps me that the others are less bad.



Fear not, Dominions is nowhere near that constrained. There is plenty of room to think of original strategies. There certainly isn't "one true path" or anything. People think of original things all the time. Sometimes races are considered weak for a long time before someone comes up with a strategy that makes them suddenly seem strong. And every race has lots of possible options.

It's probably a good idea to read any strategy guides for your nation, but from there just enjoy being creative!

[llamabeast]

Oh, incidentally, if anyone is wondering what MA Man is up to: they're not playing, they're just sitting on a hidden province racking up money to pay to the winner of the Arena Death Match.

[Zeldor]

Someone would do something bad to me if I teleported there and conquered it, right?

[llamabeast]

VERY bad Zeldor. VERY bad.

I will, however, send you 50 gold from the coffers of LA C'tis if you can tell me the province number where MA Man lives (first successful answer only!).

[Zeldor]

901?

[Xietor]

Is no one at war yet? where is the Kingmaker Newspaper reporters?

[Darkwind]

Xietor said:
i feel sorry for anyone who took d2 this game. heh. good luck
outfitting your thugs with items-unless you can trade for everything which is possible in a game of this magnitude.

Death two or drain two?

In the case of drain two, you forget that Ulm's smiths are immune to drain. Ulm has below-average magic resistance two, which makes the scale even better to take, though I could easily have been horribly wrong in taking Drain 3 and spending the extra points in growth, production, order, and such. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

In other news, I don't think I've seen any rushing nations yet. Phew. I was afraid the saga of Ulm might die early there, but I think I'm building up a force that's semi-capable of taking on rushes, now.

I wouldn't stop holding your collective breaths, though. The Bank of Ulm may never open internationally, still.

[llamabeast]

Zeldor - 901 is correct! Smart guy. 10 gold coming your way.

[Xietor]

Actually i know ma ulm is immune to drain scale. but i meant nations that were not immune that took it regardless.

Ulm with their new heretic weapons can likely stop a bless rush, an elephant rush may be another matter. Where did you say you were located again?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Darkwind]

Xietor said:
Actually i know ma ulm is immune to drain scale. but i meant nations that were not immune that took it regardless.

Ulm with their new heretic weapons can likely stop a bless rush, an elephant rush may be another matter. Where did you say you were located again?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

I'm fairly sure Ulm has a leg up against other human nations with defending against an elephant rush (elephant-less human nations, that is). They have high protection and defense, both of which, if the manual is correct, help in defense against elephant rushes. Plus, Black Knights are fast, cavalry (and thus larger than unmounted units), epitomize all the advantages of Ulm, and can do quite a bit of damage. Though I doubt they cost less resource-wise, elephants cost quite a bit more gold-wise. As a least resort, I'm not afraid to bribe one of my neighbors with gold in exhange for an attack. Elephants cost less than Illithids, yes? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif

[Lingchih]

Xietor said:
Is no one at war yet? where is the Kingmaker Newspaper reporters?



LA Pythium reports seeing the forces of Lanka on our border. Our hydras are aware of the situation and ready in case hostilities should break out.

[DonCorazon]

Xietor said:
i feel sorry for anyone who took d2 this game. heh.


D3.
Mages beware. Magic bounces off Utgard giants like water on Gortex. We eat books.

[atul]

Nothing but heavy cavalry everywhere. Not even foreign dominion. Bandar Log is in balance with its surroundings.

Hummmmmm....

(and since we can't go THOG SMASH! like Utgård, we'd suffer from D3. So we won't pity them)

[Lingchih]

Indy provs are pitifully easy in this game. As I suppose it should be, for a mega-game.

[Zeldor]

It really depends where http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif You know, some people got indie elephants nearby http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[atul]

Lingchih, c'moon, not everyone has the best recruitable heavy infantry of the game. Markatas still get slaughtered by... well, even Hoburg militia. :p

[DaveCG]

EA Ulm reporting...sad news

IT'S A SINGLE BLACK CANDLE ON THE EDGE OF GREAT ULMMAYEEHA(that's our nations new name...)

Whomever it is...I shall smite/treat you with/to cookies...


Choose wisely..

[Zeldor]

Hmm... where are you?

[DaveCG]

Wouldn't you like to know...black candle guy...yeah, I'm on to you...you and your tricks...I'm on to all of you...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

PM me if you like, as much as I'd like to paint a target on myself for that damn arrow spell(targeted or random? such a newb) and others momma didn't raise no fool...hey look a doom horror, wonder if he likes cookies, I'll ask...

Anyway, I'm not that worried, I'm sure the mighty Conan, prophet of EA ULM will "smite" any that come close, and his mighty horde of shamans will make many the eye tingle with their "flying shards"...oh yeah, watch out world...

[Bananadine]

And up go the staling counts!

[Xietor]

we have had very few stales so far. Only 1 in the past 2 turns.

[Meglobob]

Also Ma Man is not really in the game. Ma Man is the arena cash cow.

Heh! Later on in the game, can't Ma Mans gems be included in the arena prize purse?

In fact 1st deathmatch +1000gps as already stated.

2nd deathmatch same + 1/2 Ma Mans gems.

3rd deathmatch and everyone thereafter, whatever Ma Man has of value, money, gems, magic items (via luck) etc...

[Lingchih]

Now that sounds tempting. If the gems were included in the prize, I might even be tempted to go fight.

[Zeldor]

You think that GoRed hydra would win?

[Falkor]

If you are lucky, you need only one win for the prize.
If you are more lucky your combatant will fight cripled markata scout. So, even GoR Hydra has a chance. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[JimMorrison]

Meglobob said:
...2nd deathmatch same + 1/2 Ma Mans gems.

3rd deathmatch and everyone thereafter, whatever Ma Man has of value, money, gems, magic items (via luck) etc...



Shouldn't it remain 50% of gems? In this way, the actual purse continues to slowly grow, where if you throw them all in the third, the fourth will be a somewhat smaller reward.

[Meglobob]

JimMorrison said:

Meglobob said:
...2nd deathmatch same + 1/2 Ma Mans gems.

3rd deathmatch and everyone thereafter, whatever Ma Man has of value, money, gems, magic items (via luck) etc...



Shouldn't it remain 50% of gems? In this way, the actual purse continues to slowly grow, where if you throw them all in the third, the fourth will be a somewhat smaller reward.



Yes Jim, could do it that way instead.

Probably never have a deathmatch now and with the clam nerf no one will ever be able to wish for one... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[JimMorrison]

Also, this just in-

EA Agartha, whoever you are since you are not listed in the first post of the other thread, you are trespassing.

I would have preferred to keep this communique private, but you will not be allowed to hold a province next to Gath's capital. We will be claiming that territory this turn, you would be wise to retreat your army so as not to lose it.

If the province is not undefended this turn, Gath will have no recourse but to consider this an act of war. There will not be a second warning.

[Xietor]

Darkwind, you staled! I was kidding. I was not going to attack you. Do not even know where you are, plus I am a nice guy, and rarely attack anyone early. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[Darkwind]

Xietor said:
Darkwind, you staled! I was kidding. I was not going to attack you. Do not even know where you are, plus I am a nice guy, and rarely attack anyone early. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Oh my. Well, at least I have even more gold for the Bamk of Ulm to use, and I'm not at war (as far as I know), so I didn't lose any vital provinces or anything. How did I forget Kingmaker?! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

Edit: Now I remember! I did the turn, but forgot to send it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

[Aezeal]

Well for magic I think M1 is a bit overpowered.. I think M2 should give +1 and M3 +2

[DrPraetorious]

Are you my neighbor? Do you not want to die?

I don't really care who I kill first (or second, or third), but bribes will be taken into account, and more serious offers of longterm mutual aid will also be considered. I always prefer to have allies, although I'll wait until I prefer to better know the strengths of potential allies before I commit.

-- The frendly neighborhood Niefels

[Xietor]

The races/players have been updated on this thread.

EA Agartha - nozshand

[JimMorrison]

Ah, thank you Xi. I really didn't want everyone to have to see me get so heavyhanded, but for some reason thought there wasn't a version of the list on this thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

But, Gath has a proud history, and will not be encroached upon by uncouth cave dwellers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

[llamabeast]

I am definitely open to suggestions as to how the arena prize is worked out. I was also thinking Man's gems would make a good contribution to the prize. I think perhaps they should be converted to pearls first though, otherwise the prize would be especially beneficial to nature nations.

[Twan]

I think (1 pearl x number of turns) + the 1000gp for the winner (or a formula making gold scaling too, like 500gp + 50xtrn + 10 pearls + 1/2xtrn) would be a good amount. Giving all Man's gems (2,5 pearls per turn = an hundred by turn 40) would be too much. I'd also like a reward, say half, for the finalist *if he defeated more opponents than the winner* (sometimes the winner is just the lucky guy killing the champion who defeated all others).

Now I'd like to add a condition : reward is halved if the winner don't get the trident, or is a shapeshipting unit able to unequip it. The main disavantadge of the DM is to have to risk your champion in the next match, so people avoiding it should be less rewarded.

[DonCorazon]

Utgard get headache listening to complicated equation. Too much talk. Let all giant folk unite to wipe out little children.

-DC of Utgard, the Book Burner, Winter is Coming.

[Darkwind]

It's turn 7! Another turn closer to the opening of the Bank of Ulm!

Also, it appears MA R'lyeh does not like being disturbed by land-dwellers. I sent a message to them, and as far as I remember, no replies. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Xietor]

What no wars yet to report?!

Where is the nefarious Dr. P's Giants? He must have started next to someone he was a bit hesitant to attack.

Meanwhile LA Arcoscephale is pursuing peace and diplomacy, backed by armored elephants, dozens of Agema, and Mind Burning Mages. Yes, Xietor is off to his typical cautious start, undeterred by the graphs.

The children's tale of the race between the tortoise and the hare that so many dominions players have forgotten is still relevant! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Zeldor]

Nah, I am bigger emanation of friendliness!

And you probably have some boring starting location with uber-defensive position http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Meglobob]

Burn bright, burn early, then go nova all before the endgame micro kicks in! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[moderation]

DonCorazon said:
Utgard get headache listening to complicated equation. Too much talk. Let all giant folk unite to wipe out little children.

-DC of Utgard, the Book Burner, Winter is Coming.



Drat, the Toasty Ones of Abysia wanted the Book Burner title. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

By the way, we have a special unit in the Kingmaker mod called the Toasty Ones. Imagine a magical flaming snowman that shoots lasers from it's eyes. Fear us! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif

[Salamander8]

Darkwind said:
It's turn 7! Another turn closer to the opening of the Bank of Ulm!

Also, it appears MA R'lyeh does not like being disturbed by land-dwellers. I sent a message to them, and as far as I remember, no replies. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif


I must have missed it. I miss some in-game messages due to my habit of just browsing them this early. It's a bad habit from SP games.

[moderation]

When do the other banks open by the way? I forgot what happened to them after all.

[atul]

Hm, still no neighbours anywhere. All of my nation must be turning blind or something. But it doesn't matter, archers can't hit the broad side of a barn anyway and astral magic is Prec 100 to begin with.

Only reason I know I'm not alone is that for one turn I saw a black candle to north-west. Little foreign dominion, I'm coming for ya!

[Herode]

It's an interesting point IMHO to see alterity manifesting itself as a black candle, which symbol obviously carries the essential contradiction of Life.

BTW, my little waterpond also has some black candles & I wonder how can candles light in - even shallow - seas.

Another contradiction of Life maybe .
Oh well...

[Herode of EA Oceania]

[DonCorazon]

atul said:
Hm, still no neighbours anywhere. All of my nation must be turning blind or something. But it doesn't matter, archers can't hit the broad side of a barn anyway and astral magic is Prec 100 to begin with.

Only reason I know I'm not alone is that for one turn I saw a black candle to north-west. Little foreign dominion, I'm coming for ya!



Funny Utgard has two very close neighbors. The ones to the north are crunchy, with shiny bronze coatings and gooey on the inside. Just have to watch out for their huge grey horses with the long noses. And they have lots of books for us to burn! Yummy.

[Xietor]

While I hate to do it, I am looking for a permanent sub for EA Vanheim. I know the player posted for a sub, but he obviously did not find one as EA Vanheim staled, and EA Vanheim already has 2 stales so far.

The player also stated he needs a sub for a 3 week stretch starting next Thursday. If EA Vanheim stales again tomorrow the race will be set to AI. Someone may be willing to take over EA Vanheim permanently, that is not willing to do so as a temp. sub.

If anyone knows a friend that wanted in the game, or anyone following the thread who may want to join as EA Vanheim, let me know as soon as possible so you can take over the race and get a turn in for tomorrow before they are set to AI.

[Zeldor]

I see some wars starting already, post some battle screenies and reports!

[JimMorrison]

Well dammit..... I'm pretty sure I'd rather be playing Vanheim than Gath. Gath is FUBAR. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[chrispedersen]

LOL.. toldya = )

Three turns of no seeing + strong neighbors = one quick exit = ).

[Tyrant]

Xietor said:

Where is the nefarious Dr. P's Giants? He must have started next to someone he was a bit hesitant to attack.





That's The Notorious Dr. DrPraetorious, not nefarious, notorious, get it straight X.

[Zeldor]

Or he will come and kill you!

[Xietor]

nefarious, adj : extremely wicked;

I selected the word i wanted. /ducks a giant snowball.

[Darkwind]

Why hello there Calibrated Horizons and Yazan. I'm just dandy sitting here, thanks for asking. No, I would not like you burning Ulm's towns, violating Ulm's women, and stealing Ulm's gold, thanks for asking, Calibrated Horizons, especially so close to the opening of the Bank of Ulm.

Say, Calibrated Horizons, I've heard that you've met one of Ulm's closest neighbors, a certain nation of lizardmen. They say that you've not been very friendly, to the point of ignoring their messages. Would you mind elaborating on this subject? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DaveCG]

Hey hey! LA Boggy people and EA(I think) Monkey people! say hello to EA Ulm, please don't all rush at once to greet me, and with such nice swords and sticks too.

Yeah, just met my first fellows and I'm hoping they don't kill me, really am, as that would be a shame.

In other news, man I love luck scales, well at least in this game.

Well Xietor, if I'm unlucky you might just get your wish of war reports, mainly of the EA ulmmehyaons being killed by monkeys and the boggy people http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Here's hoping they like my fine wine and fur loin cloths...

I mean...who doesn't?

[Xietor]

There is war. Do not kid yourself. Players are just not reporting it.

[Lingchih]

These mega-games can be very cut-throat. If you report you are at war, another neighbor, who might not have known you were at war, may take that opportunity to stab you in the back.

[Kristoffer O]

The demon kings and rightful rulers of the land of the dead hereby declare war on the world of the living.

- Tatsu Bosatsu, voice of Fudo, lord of Yomi, Hell on Earth.

[Kristoffer O]

The oni of Yomi will appreciate donations for the dead. Just bury your gold with the deceased and the slain, and your contributions will be cared for in the halls of Emma-Ho and his incarnation Fudo.

Tsunekage, voice of Tatsu Bosatsu, viceroy of Fudo, lord of Yomi

[Foodstamp]

Lingchih said:
These mega-games can be very cut-throat. If you report you are at war, another neighbor, who might not have known you were at war, may take that opportunity to stab you in the back.



I like to stab people in teh phace http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Xietor]

These games are very cutthroat? You don't say?

Wokeye Is the new owner of EA Vanheim! /cheer.

In other news, I am investigating the possibility of more
precise graphs so that there is no need for news reports. The evil deeds and ongoings will be apparent to all who care to read the new more complete stat sheets.

[JimMorrison]

Kristoffer O said:
...Tsunekage, voice of Tatsu Bosatsu, viceroy of Fudo, lord of Yomi



I had the distinct impression that title was going to continue, something along the lines of "consumer of children, trainer of poodles, expounder of tall tales, liquefier of prickly fruits, he who shall dance on your bones after flaying your flesh with a wet noodle and using said bones to make a nice soup to refresh his energy for the ensuing dancing....."

>.>

[Wokeye]

The new Seneschal of EA Vanheim has ascended to be at the right hand of the mighty mysterious god of mystery. And such.

If you had an existing diplomatic agreement with EA Vanheim, best to remind the new management.

[atul]

That's what you get for being blind, not only the only time you meet your neighbours there's immediately dozens of archers at your border but then you get called names too! EA monkey people?!? Bandar Log has indeed advanced further than that, and we do demand to be called rightfully MA monkey people!

...not that there would be anything wrong with Lanka or Kailasa, but we still like to keep our distance...

But, when you're striving towards beneficial reincarnations, name calling is of little importance. Everyone is welcome to join in our meditation club to breath out the bad air and inhale the good spirit.

Hummmmmmmmm.....

[Xietor]

A note to the players of Kingmaker. My goals as Administrator, now that the game is up and running, are few:

1. Treat all players as fairly and equally as practicable, when it comes to subs, extensions, etc. And to avoid any appearance of unfairness. To do that i have adopted some rules about extensions early in the game(there are none for anyone) and a rule about staling which will be enforced rigorously early in the game.

2. To make sure as many players are actually in control of nations as possible, and to avoid setting races to ai if possible and not conflict with rule number 1. For the 1st 18 turns we are on a 24 hour host. So if your race has a stale, it gives me little leeway.

If you stale and just forget to send in a turn, let me know. But as in the case of EA Vanheim, if I think you staled and may be out of town etc.(ie you are looking for a sub but never contact me about finding one) then that puts me in a hard spot.

If i simply take the easy path and do nothing, and the race stales again, then i just set it to ai and it is done. But I have tried to avoid that. I sent numerous players pms about subbing for ea vanheim on a temp basis. Being on a short fuse, and not hearing anything back from temp. subs, late last night i sent 3 players, including velusion and wokeye, offers to take EA Vanheim over on a permanent basis.

Wokeye was the 1st to respond.

Aezeal sent me a pm today and was not aware of what had transpired, and obviously not happy about it. I feel bad-to a point. Just keep in mind that if you stale turn YOU put me in a position to possibly do something drastic that you may not like.

After turn 18, when we go to 48 hours a host, there will be more time to cnsider things. But for the next 10 days, if you stale turn, especially if your race has already stale turned before, I would advise sending me a pm and letting me know you intend to do the next turn.

3. To make sure the game moves forward to conclusion inexorably. Given the size of the map, and the number of players, we cannot have many delays for personal reasons.


There will be delays for holidays. The 1st of which will be the 4th of July. With Apologies to European Players, and others who reside outside the States, the 4th is a big holiday here. We will be on a 48 hour timer by then, and depending who is left alive and who needs a break for the 4th will determine if and how long the break will be(not more then a long wekend).

[Zeldor]

Hmm... did timer move 1 hour? I am pretty sure next turn was due 17:30 GMT just a while ago. 18:45 now and I see no info about changes in admin log...

[llamabeast]

It's cos the LlamaServer's having difficulty reaching the mail server. It won't host until it's made contact, in case someone sent in a turn at the last minute. In fact it won't host for a little while after it's made contact, in case it takes a while for all the e-mails to come through following the downtime.

[Aezeal]

yeah only I had arranged to take my turn today and this happend after one stale and without notice while the official message in the first post was 2 stales.. seriously, you suck and are inconsistent

There should be no need to send messages if the friggin rules where 2 stales and you are out, I was replaced way before the 2nd turn was over, not 1 hour before but WAY before. I'm STILL not 2 turns stale!

[Xietor]

When you posted you need a sub, but the thread reflects none is found, and I am not notified one is found, then there is a stale turn, i deduced you had not found a sub.

That puts a different spin on things. The fact that EA Vanheim was going to be given to a perm. sub, if one could be found, was posted on the game thread.

I truly regret the necessity or believing the necessity existed to do it. In the other 2 large games I hosted, this issue never occurred. Hopefully, it will be a one time occurrence here.

[Darkwind]

I haven't been given a turn file today. Is there any reason for this? Am I behind on some important update?

[Zeldor]

Darkwind:

Refresh it. IF it does not help request resend. Sometimes it happened that I received turn file 2-3 hours after hosting, while resending worked immediately.


And it looks like those 3 nations could have lost their capitols, looking at income score:
EA Ermor
LA Atlantis
MA Pythium

And EA Lanka seems to be on nice rampaging party http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Tichy]

You should have one now. There was a problem with llamaserver's email that delayed host.

[Darkwind]

Yeah, I've got it now. Yay! One turn closer to getting the Bank of Ulm off the ground!

[DrPraetorious]

Niefel News Update:
The peoples of the world can rejoice - the blood-thirsty emperor of Pythium, who sought to invade the peace-loving peoples of the great icy waste, has been all but vanquished.

It has been a hard-fought battle - against overwhelming odds, we have driven the aggressors' armies from within a stone's throw of our own brave fastness, and the Prophet of the True God travels now to Pythium, where the brave and noble Pythians, with whom we have no quarrel, will, in their thanks for delivering them from the vicious imperial regime, and for showing them the Light of the True God, present him with the laurels and facce of their false and pagan emperor. Though he is but a humble servant of the God, the Prophet has been so moved by the long suffering and devout piety of the Pythians, that he cannot refuse the honor.

All hail the Prophet of Knife Bright Insight, Autocratoras of Pythia!

In other news, we demand that Ermor cease death gem enrichment immediately, as the Prophet of Knife Bright Insight is also rightful Caeser of Ermor.

[Xietor]

Pythium?

What ill luck for a nation whose capital gets 8 gems per turn to start near Dr. P. I am sure the temptation to add those 8 gems to his own coffers proved too great for Dr. P to pass up.

Nations about to be vanquished who desire revenge should forward their gems and revenge requests to the care of Ruin, LA Arcoscephale, nemesis of rush nations. More often than not, revenge requests are fulfilled if the offending nation is still alive by endgame.






http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Hadrian_II]

Oww, niefelheim is killing 2 players at once, it seems that the giants need to be stopped before they reach the borders of kailasa, could his heighbours do that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif?

[Aezeal]

It puts a spin on things but still doesn't change the fact I WASN"T staling 2 turns. You are still an [censored]

[Wokeye]

LOL Aezeal carrying on like a spoilt child is a great way to keep on the good side of the Dom3 community!

[Aezeal]

spoiled child? I just got ripped out of the game for no good reason,nothing spoiled about that, tell me how you'd feel. He broke his own rules and I should be happy about it.. man when I posted it the turn I should play was still being played. You are a lousy part of the community even accepting the nation under these circumstances. I don't even know what sort of community this is when I'm not allowed to protest at what happened here but every one wants me to keep quite just for the sake of it being quite instead of frigging justice being done.

[Herode]

Wokeye said:
LOL Aezeal carrying on like a spoilt child is a great way to keep on the good side of the Dom3 community!



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Yeah. I guess he is joking and will apologize soon.
Obviously, no adult and reasonable player would seriously adopt such a behaviour http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Aezeal]

Yeah I'm sure you'd see all reason behind getting removed from your nation. Like I said strange pplz here just back-up the host who committed the errors instead of going for what every normal person would consider the right thing to do.

I'm certainly not going to apologize for protesting in whatever way I consider valid against this case of clear abuse of host powers and randomness in behaviour.

[Zeldor]

To be honest he is right. If rule says 2 stales it should be 2 stales, not predicting someone would stale again and kicking him out of great game like that.

I think new owner should give nation back to Aezeal, but that is just my personal opinion.

[Wokeye]

Aezeal said:
I don't even know what sort of community this is when I'm not allowed to protest at what happened here but every one wants me to keep quite just for the sake of it being quite instead of frigging justice being done.


You are surely allowed to protest - but public insults do you no favours, my young padawan.

I offered to hand back the reigns with a private PM to Xietor - I have no worries about doing so if the host decides to be nice to you. But again, why would he?

[Aezeal]

Well thanks for having at least one person in this community seeing the way every case in court would be seen. I was still actively looking for a sub for my vacation for the next 3 weeks so that is the only thing that complicates me taking the nation back now. Well the only thing apart from the power-crazy and totally not able to do any sort of self critisizm and then ACTING on it by doing the right thing, host you have and the fact some players including mods seem to have a strange feeling of justice.

[Herode]

Zeldor said:
To be honest he is right. If rule says 2 stales it should be 2 stales, not predicting someone would stale again and kicking him out of great game like that.


Aezeal may be right, the point is : such an agressive reaction is absolutely wrong.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

[Reay]

Aezeal, if it wasn't for Xietor and a few others no one would be playing this game. We all have to be thankful for their efforts.

However, if Aezeal did not stale twice then I can't see a reason why he can't be reinstated?

[Aezeal]

Right is right herode.

But if you prefer to be a person that say.. prefers to look away when pplz are excecute in corners and then complains when others riot and it happens to mess up your tidy lawn then it's your right to be that way.

Personally I prefer to be with the rioters in that case.

Your way justice will never come, my way sometimes things change.

[Meglobob]

Calm down everyone!

How about a compromise that makes everyone happy?

Perhaps Wokey could look after Ea Vanheim well Aezreal is away for 3 weeks than hand the nation back to him.

Another nation will more than likely come up for a permanent sub and probably be bigger and more powerful, so Wokey could have 1st choice of taking it or not. In return for doing all of us a favour, especially Aezreal for caretaking Ea Vanheim.

Xieter has done a great job getting this game going, it has involved considerable hard work and sacrifice of his free time so does not deserve any harsh words or critism directed his way. Only praise and thanks.

[Lingchih]

Stop all this! Aezeal, you staled too many times in an early mega game. You would have been replaced by any host. This has gone on long enough.

[Aezeal]

I beg to differ, whatever he's done (not in the mood to go there now) he deserves critisism on this one and I deserve to be able to give it. A good doesn't cancel a wrong.

It's like looking away when a respected member of a community violates a little boy and then say "he's so good he doesn't deserve critisizm."

I do hope that example made the "a good doesn't cancel a wrong" principle more than abundantly clear. I'll be so dissapointed if I have to explain these basics of justice again. (Though in case of the union-knight I think there should've been lienency since it crime was the good deed - For all you Martin readers out there)

I'm not saying we should hang Xietor, but he was WRONG.

[Lingchih]

Ahhh. All right. If he is so adamant about it , let Aezeal back in. He better damn well take his turns on time though.

[Aezeal]

Lingchih, the rules are not staling 2 times in a row. If it happens I might stale once a few times, since I'm not grown to my computer and have a life beside it.

You are ridiculous in saying "if he's so adamant about it" wouldn't you want your nation back if you got kicked out.

I'm not the one who made the error here. But I guess you are one of those pplz who prefer the lawn tidy and opposition shot.

Anyway I way I'm still going on vacation end of this week and still have no sub, guess with all this slandering me that happens here I won't get one either.

It's like rape victems getting the blame of what happened and then get banished or killed by there families (seems to happen in certain cultures).

[Lingchih]

My my. I make a concession, and then am rebuffed? I think Aezeal may have some anger management problems. I vote that this thread should be locked now.

[Herode]

But if you prefer to be a person that say.. prefers to look away when pplz are excecute in corners and then complains when others riot and it happens to mess up your tidy lawn then it's your right to be that way.


You just have the chance to be far away while trying to insult me this way. Whatever can think guys and trolls like you does not matter a lot in real world. Go on "rioting" on internet and PBEM games, for sure Justice and Freedom are sitting at the door and wait for you to raise, Great Man http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Aezeal]

It's not anger Lingchih, I just don't see why I should be treated like I ruined this game while I just staled once. You clearly implied it all started with a fault of mine which was certainly not the case.

Herode.. I'm not the troll, I'm just wanting to play my game. I live in a country where justice is considered a good thing and I happen to prefer it that way. Trolls are the pplz who kick others out of games for no reason at all and refuse to correct the mistake and the people who back them up because it suits them better.

[Lingchih]

All right. Under the initial rules of the game, Aezeal should be re-instated. He did not stale two turns in a row. I will no doubt be flamed and castigated on this thread, but that is how I see it.

[Aezeal]

Thanks for the support. If I hadn't been attacked on my first reaction (which was maybe a bit strongly phrased but then again it was a reaction to something not so nice) I'd have let it rest then and there. I don't even want the nation back untill I have a sub for it for my vacation since else the problem will just move 4 days to the future.

I just didn't like the reactions I got when I rightly complained about what happened. Glad to see some pplz on this forum know right from wrong though.

[Kristoffer O]

> I just didn't like the reactions I got when I rightly complained about what happened. Glad to see some pplz on this forum know right from wrong though.

That was probably because you used [censored] in your post. It tends to make people less friendly and also less likely to listen to what you actually have to say. I for one summarily disregarded all your posts as worthless after reading that, and didn't bother to check what actually had happened until others posted that you were right.

So if you have something to complain about, be civil. It is more likely to give positive response.

[Aezeal]

Right is right and wrong is wrong KO, the way it is phrased shouldn't matter. One (censored) in the heat of the moment happens all the time in every day life and doesn't matter there.. it shouldn't matter on the net either .. and I was still right. The fact most pplz priorities are different doesn't change it (only those who never use ANY bad language under any circumstance in real live have a right to say you can't use cencored words in here either. I'm myself and the net won't change it).

[Hadrian_II]

@Aezeal: You did not break the 2 stale in a row rule, so in theory Xietor made an error with dropping with dropping you. But it seems that he made a good decision after all, as i dont see why it should be fun to play with a guy with your attitude.

Also the rules are just there as information. Practically the host and the person owning the server have all power to do what they want, and the only thing a player can do is only play games that are hosted by a benevolent tyrant.

and btw. your signature is way off.

[Digress]

At times like this it is traditional to talk about the weather.

For early winter is rather warm in the MA C'tissian neighbourhood. Some would say tropical, some oppressive, I choose balmy.

[Herode]

http://www.lerepairedesmotards.com/img/forum/dont-feed-the-troll.jpg

and back to the thread, I heard some days ago about enhanced graphs, that would be a very cool things as the graph screens for the 60+ nations of the game id a bit in a Mondrian style.

BTW, I did you know there was a graphic programmic language named Piet, after the above painter.
Here is the Hello world ! (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piet) output code.
I just wonder what would the Dom III code look in Piet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Xietor]

Though I promised myself not to post on the issue again, this will indeed be the last. My thought process was explained as best i could describe it. And though the 2 stale rule was not broken, it was not the reason he was replaced, nor is it the only reason a person can be replaced, nor was it ever meant to be the only reason a person could be replaced.

A person could stale excessively, over time, but not stale consecutive turns. That did not happen here. A person could be removed for "poor sportsmanship" as a player was removed from the Big Game last year. Again that was not what happened here.

What happened here is I thought a race was in danger of a 3rd stale in 9 turns with a player out of the loop, and made a decision based on the facts that were available.

I make no claim to being a good game host. And I am sure that I am not. But, I will say that my other 2 games made it to conclusion, with 12 and 18 players, into turn 90's without any snaffu such as this. So I am reasonably confident that this incident will indeed be an isolated event.

[moderation]

Digress said:
At times like this it is traditional to talk about the weather.

For early winter is rather warm in the MA C'tissian neighbourhood. Some would say tropical, some oppressive, I choose balmy.



There are two kinds of weather in Abysia. Hot and hotter. But don't worry. It's a dry heat. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Hadrian_II]

Herode said:
and back to the thread, I heard some days ago about enhanced graphs, that would be a very cool things as the graph screens for the 60+ nations of the game id a bit in a Mondrian style.



AFAIK, lch did some stuff for his server that looks very nice.

[Darkwind]

There are two kinds of weather in Abysia. Hot and hotter. But don't worry. It's a dry heat.

It's times like this that I wish I could say that I took Cold-4 because the MA Ulmish are so tough they could survive the cold of space. But I can't, since I went with a more reasonable idea, not changing the Heat/Cold scale at all.

That doesn't change the fact that the Ulmish are so tough they can survive in space, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[AdmiralZhao]

It is an actual balmy 72F here in Marignon. The sky is cloudless, and it is perfect weather for a sailing expedition or a book burning. The crops are growing, I'm at peace with my kind and friendly neighbors, and the secular, sacred, and demonic spheres are all in perfect alignment. I can only look on with dismay and somewhat prurient interest at the reports of war, disaster, and non-ideal weather that come in from the less pleasant and well managed portions of the world.

[DonCorazon]

Utgard is experiencing a mild fall with temperatures around negative 110, quite nice actually to help offset the uncomfortable heat being generated from the soon to be burning Great Library of Arcos.

[moderation]

AdmiralZhao said:
It is an actual balmy 72F here in Marignon. The sky is cloudless, and it is perfect weather for a sailing expedition or a book burning. The crops are growing, I'm at peace with my kind and friendly neighbors, and the secular, sacred, and demonic spheres are all in perfect alignment.



I hear the weather is like that in the land they call Los Angeles as well. Except that the demonic spheres are a bit out of wack there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif