Official Image Collection

[Suicide Junkie]

What I am proposing is an all-encompassing collection of component images, possibly expanding to weapon, star and other images.

One source for every image made, so that players only have to download an image file once to accommodate all the mods out there, plus most future mods...

The system would work something like this:
- start with the SE4 default components images.
- Users submit image files
- only duplicated, incomplete, or damaged files are rejected
- the rest get placed into the next available component number, expanding components.BMP as nessesary.
- every now and then, a new "upgrade" ZIP and full ZIP are posted, which include the new images.

The key things will be:
- all images are included. All mods can use the same set, and reduce their download size.
- additions are all incremental. That means no worries about updating a mod when a new image update comes out. Mods can say "uses imagemod v1.5 or higher"
(This also means it can be put into SE4's original pictures folder without causing any problems; all mods will use the one file, saving HD space)
- all working entries accepted. Modders have more to choose from, and the artists can be confident that at least one of the many mods out there will make use of their image.

I know that I, for one would love to use something like this.

[Phoenix-D]

Sounds like a good idea..

Now if I can just get any components DONE..Bryce is still on the "oooooh, shiny new toy" stage http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I keep getting sidetracked.

Phoenix-D

[PvK]

Ya, sounds good to me.

[PvK]

I'd add that it'd be nice to keep a list of what they are in all the mods too, so mod developers can try to be semi-consistent for some things. That would be some work to compile, though.

PvK

[Suicide Junkie]

At the beginning, perhaps, we should give choice of actual location when filling in the gaps below #285? Assuming the spot is not already filled.

Compiling will be a matter of renaming the fullsize images, and pasting the minis into components.bmp, as they are submitted.
I am perfectly willing to do that, since I don't expect it to be too much work after the initial flood http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Andrés]

Sounds like a good idea, feel free to add the few pictures I made in my SW mod.
I still think that modders such as you sj, should make a list of comps in your mods that need new pictures, so different artists can contribute with the pics.

[Suicide Junkie]

Would that be worth creating an extra thread, or could it fit in with the image submission thread?

[disabled]

I suggest you guys start on the next totally empty line of each mini bmp file, that way MM can add more stuff if they want to.

[ June 16, 2003, 04:13: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

[Suicide Junkie]

Fair enough.
We can start at component #289 then.

[PvK]

Yep, I did this in Proportions too.

PvK

[Wizarc]

Great Idea. Someone can also make a viewer, very small program, to view the bmp that would have the row numbered for each component on the left and each componenet on the right for easy reference and viewing. Instead of counting rows down to the 592 component you can scroll down the bmp and the number will be displayed for each starting component on each side of the row. Then you only have to scroll down to the row where the component number is and then count over to 592.
1 24
24 48
49 72
73 96
etc...
.
.
.
Could even have some text explaining components 475-500 are for this mod. 501-510 are for this mod. 511-600 are free for anybodys use.

[Val]

It would also be good to expand this to the Beams/Torps pics.

[Suicide Junkie]

That would be very very helpful. I am always forced to guess and check by looking at the portraits!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Could even have some text explaining components 475-500 are for this mod. 501-510 are for this mod. 511-600 are free for anybodys use.<hr></blockquote>Now that I think about it, there really is no reason to pack everybody in, since pure-black boxes ZIP up really small http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
We could just go a row at a time, and earmark a new one when they "overflow".
That would make the credits file much simpler, too.

[Fyron]

Assuming that you'll be starting relatively soon, I submit this file:

BOTF Facilities (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1009146803.zip)

It is a compilation of most (if not all) the facilities from BOTF, converted into SEIV format.

[PvK]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Val:
It would also be good to expand this to the Beams/Torps pics.<hr></blockquote>

Ya, I have modded beams and torps in mine too.

PvK

[Suicide Junkie]

This really should be wide open to all of the image sets.

And I will set about adding those images when I get home, I.F.

[ 25 January 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[Val]

I think the Ult Mod has already collected a good number of the images that were out there at the time, might want to use that as a baseline http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Matryx]

Eek! no news from me for a long while so I thought I'd contribute to this thread.
At approximately the same time I started to work on my Modlauncher I also started to work on a new planet-set, involving restructuring planet / star / storm images and so forth. Eventually this got shafted as I had no time to continue the work, but I still have the data.
I have uploaded (HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1011999670.zip)) (6.09mb) what I managed to do so far before I ran out of time, and in this file (HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1011999798.txt)) (&lt;1k) the structure I recommended.
The upload *does* include all of the original SE4 images because the numbering system has changed.

Now it was a long time ago so I can't say for sure what has changed but it adds a handful of planets and stars of every colour as well as a collection of new warppoints.

I hope you will use these images as you see fit.
Shouldn't be too hard for you all to figure out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Oh... one of the hardest things you'll find is how to make interesting descriptions for 650 planets that basically look the same http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Anyway.. back to my degree.

[Suicide Junkie]

To save me some long downloads, could you guys post just the new images from your mods?
Just the minis (EG: components.bmp), and the new portraits (EG: comp925.bmp)
Theres no sense in pulling down data files, or the original SE4 BMPs over and over.

PS: Also, include a line or two for the credits http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

-------------------------------------------------

So far, I'm including:
- components
- facilities (v1.1, 1.2MB) (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/FacilityPack.zip)
- planets
- from 'combat',
Beams.BMP
Torps.BMP

I don't know about adding "systems", since it does involve a lot of Image space per submission.

PS: Fyron, I managed to keep most of those facilities at the same number, but I moved the first 21 of them to the end in order to keep MM's first 100 slots free.

[ 26 January 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

Crikey!
Note to self: never add a dashed separator line!
(The forum treats everything below as a sig, so you can't edit without losing everything below!)

Hey, Matryx, uhmm, well I opened up your planets.BMP, and it hurt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif .
You don't, by any chance, happen to have a BMP with the original images separated, or a BMP with all the images clustered together without gaps?
I am really not looking forward to moving images 3 at a time...

[Matryx]

Unfortunately not SJ.
The idea was to use this as a base and then fill in the blanks according to the text file's description. (so images 50-60 for example are reserved for Huge Gas Giant Oxygen planets.)

The text file describes as follows.
Size, Type, Atmosphere, (ignore the next two colums as that was just me keeping tabs on what was still needed), then start image number (going in 10s, starting from 0)
Note, for the big images you must add 1. So if the planet is using image 0 in the data files, you must have the big image called p0001.BMP

This should lead to approximately the same amount of images for each planet type and then those for asteroids, stars, storms, wormholes, and so forth

By leaving blanks when I started to create it it helped keep it all ordered so I wasn't forever wondering if planet 32 was a CO2 image or an Oxy with a dingy atmosphere.

If you want I can re-sort them all, and repost just the new images, tho it'd probably take me a day to do that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ 26 January 2002: Message edited by: Matryx ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

The hardest part will probably be renumbering the portraits...

I see 15/40 vaccuum worlds are yours.
I see two GG's in the second row are yours.
Roughly half the stars are yours.
And, the funky colored warppoints are all yours.

I'll go add & renumber those for now. If you can extract any more from among the rest, I'll add them too.

PS: Does the bunny planet count? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

PPS:
RE: the counting system: if you look at the facilities BMP I uploaded, you can see the leftover bits of my method http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif The numbers down the right side go 20, 40, 60,... the emptyblocks and one's digit gets copy/pasted as I extend the Bitmap.

PPPS:
You seem to have a slight problem with the portraits... there is a
"p00351.BMP" AND a
"p0351.BMP".
Not really a problem, since they're both the same, but there was also one in the 550's, that only had the "p00553.BMP". I think that one might cause an error if it was used. (I fixed it)

[ 26 January 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[Fyron]

I tried downloading your facility pack just now, and geocities told me the page was unavailable for viewing.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>PS: Fyron, I managed to keep most of those facilities at the same number, but I moved the first 21 of them to the end in order to keep MM's first 100 slots free.<hr></blockquote>

I think you mean the first 20, cause the 21st is on a new line. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

That's fine by me. I put the facilities in some sort of order (maybe building type, then by race), and the type of building changes at the new line there.

[Suicide Junkie]

No, I mean 21. You had a grey spikey temple placed right at the end of MM's original images, then some blanks, then 20 all on one row. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

RE: Download link.
It seems that geocities dosen't like to allow downloads from offsite http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif . I'll just change the link to go to a basic page with the real link on it.

SE4 Images Mod Download Page (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/imagepack.html)

[ 26 January 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[Andrés]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
You don't, by any chance, happen to have a BMP with the original images separated, or a BMP with all the images clustered together without gaps?
I am really not looking forward to moving images 3 at a time...<hr></blockquote>

Original mini pics were probably made by resampling to 36x36 the original portraits. It wouldn't be too difficult to do that again.

[Matryx]

Correct.
Well, almost correct
I did that for a couple but then realised I'd save time by just setting it to render at both sizes simultaneously (mmmm 2 cameras) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

As for image requests, I have some.

- A flying temple complex. All 5 religious facilities combined & floating, or maybe in a giant tower. Either is good; they just have to take up one facility slot.
- A better shield-armor image. Something more like a grid across the surface of the hull. To replace the armor-above-shield-generator SE4 Classic image.

PS: Since I've already got JimBob's Gravtechs downloaded, I'll be adding those images now.

[Atrocities]

I have thought about converting all of the BOTF building images into SEIV format. There are something on the order of 24 I believe.

If anyone is interested in having me do this, just post so.

Also, what sizes do they need to be. IE 128X128 and what else?

[Fyron]

Atrocities:

I already did that:

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>BOTF Facilities (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1009146803.zip)

It is a compilation of most (if not all) the facilities from BOTF, converted into SEIV format.<hr></blockquote>

The portraits are 128 x 128 and the minis are 36 x 36.

Suicide_Junkie:

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>No, I mean 21. You had a grey spikey temple placed right at the end of MM's original images, then some blanks, then 20 all on one row. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <hr></blockquote>

Ahh that. That thing came from the Star Wars mod, so I didn't include it in my count.

[ 26 January 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

Well, all 21 images are in.
I've also added the gravtechs, so Facilities & components are both uploaded now.

-&ltVisit the SE4 Image Mod Download Page (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/imagepack.html)&gt-

[Atrocities]

Cool. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Andrés]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

Ahh that. That thing came from the Star Wars mod, so I didn't include it in my count.
<hr></blockquote>

Yes I renderd that Jedi Temple and included it in the mod even if I never got to add the facility to the game.

[PvK]

Proportions mod pics

(URL edited out - file removed)

Please let me know once you'd downloaded them.

Thanks,

PvK

[ 27 January 2002: Message edited by: PvK ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

Matryx:
I pulled out the 38 images that I mentioned below (rock worlds, 2 pink GG, the odd warppoints)
I just need you to ID the other new ones.
I also need a credit.txt to paste in.

PvK:
Got it.
The generic shipset images aren't really applicable for this project. They should be handled by The neo-standard shipset project (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=23&t=004185)

PS: I also need some credits for the BOTF facilities.


APPEND:
SE4 Image Mod Download Page (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/imagepack.html)
I've uploaded all for packs now, the facilities have updated (2 new images)

[ 26 January 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[Matryx]

As far as I can tell that's it
I'm sure I have some more lying about somewhere that I never put into the selection I just need to trawl through my backups.

As for a credit.txt just something along the lines of :-
Spacial images xx-xx created by [DM]Matryx (Matryx@Matryx.org.uk)
Some are new, others are manipulated Version of original SE4 graphics.

will be fine.

Anyway.. I'll see if I have time to do more and post them as I go.

[ 26 January 2002: Message edited by: Matryx ]</p>

[Matryx]

Addendum.
just noticed you missed the stars http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I'll just figure out which are mine and post the image numbers of the large pics.

[Matryx]

Ok it's nice complicated reply time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
counting from the first of the star images... these are mine:-
3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 10, 12, 16, 18, 19, 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 42, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70


which means that you can use the big images numbered as follows :-

713-715, 718-720, 722, 726, 728-730, 732, 734, 736, 738-750, 752, 756-770, 776-780.

Hope that's enough information http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ 26 January 2002: Message edited by: Matryx ]</p>

[Fyron]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>PS: I also need some credits for the BOTF facilities.<hr></blockquote>

Umm, how about:

Facilities xx-yy extracted from Birth of the Federation ((CR) 1999 Hasbro Interactive, Inc.) and compiled for use in Space Empires IV by Imperator Fyron (kazharii@hotmail.com).


(CR) is supposed to be the copyright symbol, but I don't know how to type it.

And don't say I did the spikey jedi temple thing, cause I didn't do it. I just liked the way it looked, so I copied it from the Star Wars mod.

[Suicide Junkie]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif This is why I need the credit info up front.

Time to grind through those stars... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

PS: Does anybody here mind if I throw some of these images around on the download site?

[Atrocities]

Be careful with credits. In the case of the BOTF images, you'll have to clearly state that they belong to microprose, and that you are not receiving any compensation of any kind for them. That all you did was gather the images for use.

You did not make them, you do take credit for them. You did collect them out of the botf.res and resized them for SEIV game use.

And thanks for getting them. They will make fine addtions to any image collection. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

Righty-o.

Andrés: I need a credits.txt for your jedi temple, as well as the space monster components!

PS: another update to all the packs!
-&ltVisit the SE4 Image Mod Page (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/imagepack.html)&gt-

PPS: I've actually made a submission of my own!
I took the beam weapons, and added:
- variable brightness beams
- spinning colors
- a twin beam
- an electricity beam with side fingers.
- and those crazy Quake-like beam + helix shots!

[ 27 January 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[Loknar]

You can put my green/magneta/cyan/whatever stars in too. They're in the files forum.

[Andrés]

Just mention my name and email for the monster comps.
The Jedi Temple is based in a mesh I downloaded from Sci-Fi 3d ( http://www.theforce.net/scifi3d/ ) and was originally modeled by someone called Ian Foster, but of course the owner of the credits is Lucasfilms Ltd.

[Suicide Junkie]

Posting a direct link would have been nice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>It might work, but the problem is that if you colonized that 'asteriod', and changed the athmosphere, it would become a planet of another type.<hr></blockquote>Just make that planet size have a limit of zero facilities. You could still build units and grow a few million population there.

PS: In your Magenta/Cyan Star zip, you've got 5 minis and only 4 portraits. You'll have to try that upload again.
The Green Stars went through fine.

-&ltVisit the SE4 Image Mod Page (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/imagepack.html)&gt-
WooHoo! 75% of the page views were not me! I think thats a new record http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ 27 January 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[Urendi Maleldil]

Here are 3 planet pics I did a while back. All three were taken from screen shots and cleaned up. One is Cybertron, one is Unicron's Head (from Transformers), and one is King Kai's planet from DBZ.
OldPlanets.zip (http://students.uwsp.edu/kmusa047/oldplanets.zip)
credit.txt (http://students.uwsp.edu/kmusa047/credit.txt)

Here it is. My bad.

[ 27 January 2002: Message edited by: Urendi Maleldil ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

Nice, but I can't add them till I get the credits.txt

[Andrés]

Did you see the two planets (Tatooine and Coruscant) I had inlcuded in the SW mod?

[Suicide Junkie]

The only planets I've gotten so far are from Matryx.

I'm not going to download entire mods to pick 50Kb pieces out of. Just link me to the planets BMPs.
PS: Are they original renderings, or extracted from somewhere?


I was really impressed with the results of my Helix Cannon beam image (in sig) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
If you're using 800x600 or a really big monitor, you can see that the bendy beam really does curl around behind the straight beam!

[ 28 January 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[Atrocities]

I think there is another planet mod out. Adds about 20 more planets. I look for it. Also, there were, is, a Warp Engine component image as well. I have that one. I don't know who made it, but I think its still in the old archievs.

[Fyron]

Atrocities, this might be what you're talking about:

seivplanets071.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1012181208.zip)

I was to lazy to search for it on shrapnel, so I spent 5 minutes uploading it.

[Suicide Junkie]

I.F., how did you create (if you are the creator) the solar system planets at the end?
The generic planets I can reasonably accept, but venus through saturn look very much like NASA photos, just from the minis.

I'm gonna have to ask for a fresh credits.txt packaged with every image ZIP from now on.
(Requirement #5 on the Image ModPack page, Last but not least important)

[ 28 January 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[Andrés]

Ok here they are
http://se4kdy.cyberwars.com/temp/planets.zip
They're also from pics I found in that sire scifi3d, I'll check the authors for credits.
I also have a few comp pics but as they may change and be added others while I revise and deepen the starwars part before adding it to the crossover mod.

I hate having the same picture used in different mods as completely different components. It's very confusing, the primary function of those pictures is to let you know what a component is in a fast and intuitive way without having to right-click to read its name or something.

I just realized that this entire project will make the same problem to happen with all pictures that used to be mod-exclusive.
On the other hand modders will have more pictures to choose from and it will be less likely to happen.

[Fyron]

SJ, I didn't create those planets. I downloaded them from Shrapnel months ago, and I didn't feel like looking for it in the archive section. I have no idea who created these planets.

[Fyron]

Ahh. I was downloading the updated picture packs and got this message when I tried to download the third file:

"The web site you are trying to access has exceeded its allocated data transfer."

[Fyron]

I think it said that the site would be available within the hour when I looked at it Last night. I was tired and didn't want to stay up for an extra hour to download it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Is there a reason why you're not hosting these on Shrapnel?

Has anybody asked Hadrian Aventine if we could use his pictures from the Ultimate Mod? There are some cool pictures in it.

Also, are there any plans of incorporating the system pictures in "SEIV\Pictures\Systems" into this collection?

[ 28 January 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Is there a reason why you're not hosting these on Shrapnel?<hr></blockquote>Yes. The primary reason is that I'm uploading over 4MB of almost-identical ZIPs multiple times each day.

If I was using shrapnel as a host for these, I wouldn't be able to delete the old ones, and Richard would have about 50 Megs of obsolete bitmaps by now.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Also, are there any plans of incorporating the system pictures in "SEIV\Pictures\Systems" into this collection?<hr></blockquote>That depends entirely on how much interest there is, and how big the files will get. The account I'm using to host the image mod is already half full, but I could expand it if nessesary.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I think it said that the site would be available within the hour when I looked at it Last night. I was tired and didn't want to stay up for an extra hour to download it.<hr></blockquote>Was that the whole site, or just the downloads?

PS: Wow! 15 hits already today! Not many download slots left!
It is definitely too bad that incremental updates are almost as big as the full installs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
I am definitely going to have to mirror these files somewhere...

[Fyron]

I've got some sites that have plenty of storage available that I volunteer to help mirror these files.

Isn't there some place that you can delete you're files from Shrapnel?

[Val]

SJ:

The pics that look like NASA pics are shrunk down NASA pics - I actually have several of them from NASA's edu department - so either the artist copied and shrank or is REALLY good!

Do you want me to pack and E*Mail you all the B5 stuff we have to date, or do you have it from the other thread? I have quite a few more weapons to add, so maybe holding off to keep them grouped together would be a better idea.

I really liked the spiral beam, very excellent!

[Suicide Junkie]

IF:
That would be useful. Post the link, and I'll add it to my site. Do these mirrors have any transfer limits?
I have two other possibilities lined up, but the more the merrier.

AFAIK, the old shrapnel upload system associated the uploader with the files & allowed you do delete, but the new system is much less flexible.
I've only seen an upload option so far.

VAL: You might as well send two Groups: everything you've got so far, and then the rest later. But don't bother sending until Tuesday, since I can't do any work on them till then.

[Fyron]

http://galileo.spaceports.com/~kazharii/other_art/picturepack/CombatPack.zip

I'll get the other ones uploaded later.

Edit: Hmm, thats weird. The download doesn't work if I click on the links. If I paste the url in the address bar, the files download fine. I hope they'll work on your webpage SJ. If not, I'll copy your web page and put it on my site.

Oh yeah, the bandwidth is 500 Mb/day and 5 Gb/month. So, my site shouldn't run out of server space.

Edit 2: The facility pack didn't upload properly. Weird.

[ 28 January 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[Atrocities]

yes that was it Imperator Fyron. Thanks dude. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>"The web site you are trying to access has exceeded its allocated data transfer."<hr></blockquote>From the site stats, it looks like there's been at least 100MB of downloads yesterday. I didn't find any indication of limits in the FAQs, but that dosen't mean there aren't any.

However, I did visit the site this morning, and downloaded the ZIP just fine. Perhaps it is only a daily restriction.

[ 28 January 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[Loknar]

Fixed the stars thing.

Here it is. ::Embarassed Look on his face:: (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1012256940.zip)

I also have a Kamikaze Pack. There is a new component graphic in it, along with a new ship class - a flying resupply depot. That also can Kamikaze. I'm not sure if the mineral amount or space is correct, and you are free to modify it. You can use these, too.

The Magical Kamikaze Pack of Doom (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1012265726.zip)

[Urendi Maleldil]

I edited my post before, but I don't think anyone caught it.

OldPlanets.zip (http://students.uwsp.edu/kmusa047/oldplanets.zip)

credit.txt (http://students.uwsp.edu/kmusa047/credit.txt)

[ 29 January 2002: Message edited by: Urendi Maleldil ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

After taking 3&1/2 hours to walk home in the middle of the night, I'm finally feeling "mostly alive" (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20020120.html).

IF:
Your site probably has the same "offsite linking" restrictions as mine.
How are you planning to get updates? I could email them to you if you like.

Loknar:
This imagemod dosen't deal with shipsets, but the components will be added... Just post a short credit.txt

UM:
Got it. You didn't mention a "submitted by me" in that. Did you want to be anonymous http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ 30 January 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[Urendi Maleldil]

Anonymity is fine. It doesn't really matter to me if people know I was the one who edited the images.

[Fyron]

SJ:

It seems spaceports doesn't like off-site downloads, so I have copied your page and put it on my site's server. Here it is:

http://galileo.spaceports.com/~kazharii/other_art/imagepack/imagepack.html

I was planning on downloading the updates from your site. If you have broadband, then you can email them to me (kazharii@hotmail.com). Just don't send me any file larger than 1.5 MB, cause hotmail won't allow me to access it. Split larger files into 2 zips and I'll put them back together. If you don't have broadband, just email me that you have posted an update on your site, and I'll download it from there. I don't want you to waste your time uploading the files twice. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I have a cable modem, so file transfers dont't take to long for me.

[Fyron]

I also changed the "back to main page" link to reference my web site, so maybe I'll get some traffic now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Do you know where I can get a script for a hit-counter (cgi, javascript, or php)? The site I used to use to host my counter disappeared, and I don't know how to make one.

I tested downloading all the files, so I know they uploaded properly.

[Val]

Was just trying to find your homepage, the link helps http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Fyron]

Hmm, I never updated my homepage in my shrapnel member profile. It's updated now.

I need to fix my forum eventually. Do you have broadband Val, or do you use a dial-up modem? I'd like to know how long my page takes to load with a 56 K connection, what with the graphical borders and all. I added a link to my site in my sig.

[ 29 January 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[Val]

Using the T1 at work, your pages come up in seconds http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I like the page, I recognize some of the race pics, what show were they from? Star Trek Next Gen?

I actually don't have a connection at home at the moment, though I'll be getting a cable connection in the next month or so.

[Fyron]

I got them from BoTF. When I add new races to the Imperium, I'll be using some pictures from MOO2.

Cable modems rock! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif The pages load in seconds for me too.

Anybody out there on a dial-up modem want to help me test how long my site takes to load?

I apologize for veering this thread away from the image collection mod, but really, Val started it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

Well, with Sympatico, shared over three computers, it took ~30 seconds.

PS: I.F. Are they strict about the <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>* All sites with banners must have a 0.25% CTR or greater. Your site must average at least one banner click for every 400 banners displayed.
and
* You may NOT incentivize banner clicks. This has always been our policy, but it is worth repeating. The only approved phrase for referencing your banner is 'Please visit our sponsors.'<hr></blockquote>thing? When I saw that I went and clicked-through for you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Can I incentivise before they actually get to your site, since I'm not "you" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

RE: hit counters. No idea, I've never looked.
Geocities creates a stats page automatically.
It indicates that 72% of people jump to the ImagemodDownloads from this very thread, and a mere 8% come through the main page.

[Fyron]

Whats's Sympatico?

And where did you see that thing about the banner ad needing to be clicked on? I haven't seen it before.

And with all your programing knowledge, I thought you might know how to make a counter. Oh well.

Can you release the program you wrote for making 2000 or so population-based modifiers? That would be a cool utility to have.

[ 30 January 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

Sympatico is Bell's "lets use all the phone-line frequencies not used by voice as a high-speed internet". Basically its a dog-whistle modem, with some filters on your phone jacks just in case.

All the rules are on Spaceport's sign-up page. Are you saying you didn't read the EULA? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Programming yes, internet/HTML stuff: see my homepage. The SE4-ish colourscheme is my fancypants HTML http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

The pop modifier generator is certainly not anywhere near fit for general use.
I change the hardcode for each use, and the thing is pretty "Red Green" if you know what I mean http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
I could throw a bunch of text boxes on the screen for input, but dynamically using a fuction typed in by the user is a tad more difficult.
(right now, SY is linear, Prod. is a sinewave)

If I spent a few days on it, I could come up with something presentable, and maybe a dropdown list of common functions to use.

Heh. This reminds me of when I was little, and due to a sentax error, I discovered that I had inadvertently created a program that rewrote bits of itself. Couldn't find a use for it, since the "dynamic" changes had to be hardcoded...

This is an example of an "axe" (see below). Bang a sharp blade onto a stick and you're set. The "tinman" fully-automatic treechopping system takes much longer.

[Fyron]

I read most of the EULA. I didn't notice that the ad banner had to be clicked on every once in a while. I hope they don't enforce that very strictly. I've only been using spaceports since early Dec 2001, so I don't think the ads have loaded very many times.

My "programming" skills are limited to html and a bit of javascript. I have been trying to teach myself php and mysql, but I've been too lazy. Plus, it's hard to find a free web host that will give you a mysql database, so I haven't had much incentive (or chance) to learn it.

So what do you think of my site SJ?

[ 30 January 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

The site is very nice. I think my main problem is having too small of a browser Cache.
I did note that some of the SE4 images are broken. (Planets in Torgal & Ship Minis)
The capital city is remarkable.

Re: Counters. Can you read/write files on your site using javascript? If so, a simple text file, read, add 1, write, would be enough for light traffic ("light traffic" = time for script to complete before the next visitor arrives).

PS: No file updates today, but lots of webpage changes. I need to catch up on sleep, and will get to the submissions tomorrow.

[ 30 January 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[Loknar]

Kamikaze Images Credits (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1012362616.txt)

The Kamikaze warhead and the resource depot were part of the same kind of thing, so I posted them here at once. I knew that the image collection did not consist of shipsets.

[Fyron]

SJ:

The broken images were there. Their file extensions were capitalized for some reason. They display properly on my local copy on my hard drive, but I guess the spaceports server doesn't like file extensions that are not of the proper syntax. They are fixed now. Thanks for the notification, and thanks for liking my site. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I can't claim credit for the capital city. It is a picture of Romulus that I got it from BoTF, cause I liked it so much.

What do you think of my SEIII shipsets? I think that they're pretty good, especially since I made them by hand in MS Paint. I also made my ISN banner in Paint. That was so much fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

My knowledge of javascript is mostly limited to copying other scripts and modifying them to suit my purposes. I'm not too good at making them from scratch.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Re: Counters. Can you read/write files on your site using javascript?<hr></blockquote>

I can use cgi, so I think that could be done. However, I have no clue how to do it.

Do you want a graphical banner for the Image Modpack? I might be able to make something similar to my ISN banner.

Also, I'll add a link to your site on my links page. Do you have a banner or something?

[ 30 January 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[dogscoff]

S_J - nice to see your main website updated at Last=-) Looking good. Thanks for the links too. Just in case you weren't aware of my banners (http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/banners.htm), here's a link to them. Given the good-content-rather-than-loads-of-graphics style of your site though (A preference I share BTW) I imagine you knew about the banners and decided not to use them. Which is fine.

BTW, If anyone does pull a hit-counter out of the hat, I'd be very interested in using it. I'm dying to know if anyone actually visits my site...

[Val]

Can't you just go to a webpage with a counter, view the HTML coding and "clip" out the counter?

Or if anyone has Frontpage there should be a counter in there, right?

Here is the HTML from the page I have up on our Intranet:

&lt;p align="center"&gt;&lt;font FACE="MetaPlusBook" COLOR="#ffffff"&gt;&lt;small&gt;You are visitor # &lt;!--webbot
bot="HitCounter" startspan i-image="0" i-digits="0"
PREVIEW="&lt;strong&gt;[Hit Counter]&lt;/strong&gt;" u-custom i-resetvalue="0" --&gt;&lt;img SRC="_vti_bin/fpcount.exe/myweb/?Page=Default%20Main%20Frame.htm|Image=0" ALT="Hit Counter"&gt;&lt;!--webbot
bot="HitCounter" endspan --&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

Hope this helps!

[Suicide Junkie]

RE: Banners & Images
I have none, but I suppose you could use the helix cannon for now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Something along the lines of an "Online" image would be good to use as a link to the mirrors.

As for the offsite links, if I were to use images any larger than roughly text-sized, I would put them on a separate page. Which I might as well do anyways. Text links on the main page, and a colourful banner page if you click on the title rather than a specific link...

Val:
Most of us dont have "_vti_bin/fpcount.exe/myweb/", so I expect problems http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
You probably got extra software installed on your network.

RE: SE3 sets
Wow. I'd forgotten the difference between SE3 & 4 graphics. No portraits, just your basic shipsets.
I think I've been spoiled by SE4 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif , but I like the idea of the picket fleet. That would make some interesting looking battles, especially if both sides used the same theory of ship design http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I imagine an SE4 style combat would be amazing, since the ships can't stack.

[ 30 January 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[dogscoff]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
I have none, but I suppose you could use the helix cannon for now

Something along the lines of an "Online" image would be good to use as a link to the mirrors.
<hr></blockquote>

I could create a banner for you (or for anyone else who asks nicely enough) if you wanted.

(Twisting the thread cleverly back on-topic...)

While I'm at it, are there any images which are obviously lacking from this image mod? You know, any facilities or components that ppl would like to have an image for but as yet has not been submitted?

If so I'd be happy to have a go at drawing it.

--

Dogscoff: Pixels for hire.

[Suicide Junkie]

I'll start a new thread for image requests: I've got two to kick it off http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Matryx]

Woohoo!
drunken antics avec paint packages leads to good wormholes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Included in the zip are the large Versions only to save space. Besides it doesn't really take much to resize down for minis.
1012402756.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1012402756.zip)

[Val]

Hanging head in shame... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Ah, oops....

I'll see if I can find the complete file and such for you. Sorry!

[Suicide Junkie]

Matryx!
Tsk, Tsk. Your Image 305 (http://observe.ivv.nasa.gov/nasa/gallery/image_gallery/universe/graphics/hourglass.jpg) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Drunken antics indeed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif You even got the star down and to the right of the "eye".

PS: When submitting, I need the minis too. If you need to save space, put them into their own 36x180 image rather than in with the SE4 originals.

[ 30 January 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[Val]

That 'eye' system has a familiar ring to it...

[Matryx]

I do not believe I said they were all my original creations http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif but I do feel like I've had my wrist slapped http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
All have, however, been 'touched up' while I was drunk, so there is truth in what I wrote.

I was wondering where that one, 304 and 306 came from originally. (think I need to find 307 too but I can't remember)
All I knew from the site I found was they were taken by the hubble telescope.
Have to include Nasa / RealLife(tm) / Hubble somewhere in the credits of course.

Edit: Realised Credits.txt was not included. It is located -(HERE (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1012411492.txt))-

[ 30 January 2002: Message edited by: Matryx ]</p>

[Val]

Actually, was just making a LoTR joke/pun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Kinda reminded me of the Eye of Sauron

[Urendi Maleldil]

On the website, you might want to have the readme.txt files as a separate download so a person doesn't have to download a whole collection just to see what's in it.

[Matryx]

Ahhh so this is the thread that reply was supposed to be in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
I thought it was a little out of place but didn't want to mention anything http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[DirectorTsaarx]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
After taking 3&1/2 hours to walk home in the middle of the night, I'm finally feeling "mostly alive" (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20020120.html).
<hr></blockquote>

Care to explain walking home in the middle of the night for 3 1/2 hours & whether the "mostly alive" is just tired or surviving an attempted mugging?

[Suicide Junkie]

Just tired, from spending 14 hours at work (running around a 10-floor building), and then the 3&1/2 hours in a Canadian Winter going home.
I added the schlock link for humour.

[ 30 January 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[jimbob]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>the 3&1/2 hours in a Canadian Winter going home<hr></blockquote>

I thought that Ontario was getting spring-like temperatures right now. I saw people in Toronta golfing in t-shirts for goodness sakes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Cheers from the frozen West
jimbob

[Fyron]

You know, I was under the impression that my site was going to be a mirror download site for the image mod, not the primary server. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Oh well, no worries.

If you decide to download any part of the Image Pack from my site, please click on the banner ad displayed at the bottom of the page. Apparently, I have to maintain a certain visit to click ratio to keep my site up, so help out. You don't actually have to read the ad or anything, just let it load and then close it. Thanks.

[Atrocities]

Here is a small contribution from I.

Atrocities Planet Zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1012472466.zip)

The Read-Me tells all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Hope these altered planet images add to the flavor of the game. (Yes I have many more if your interested)

QUESTIONS:
Has anyone checked into the cost of having a download server? Perhaps getting hosted or something along those lines? What is the cost of having a hosted site? Example: www.SE4image.net (http://www.SE4image.net) and have it hosted by a hosting site. I understand that the amount of bandwidth granted per month is quite high for a rather low fee. If I am wrong, just shoot me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I thought that Ontario was getting spring-like temperatures right now. I saw people in Toronta golfing in t-shirts for goodness sakes <hr></blockquote>It's been going up & down like crazy near my place. From blizzard to grass showing & right back.

Atrocities:
Do you have minis for that?
And, how does your naming scheme work?

IF: Hopefully you won't have to stay as the primary too long, but yours is the only one up 24/7. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

PS: Somebody go and visit the site now, and test the FTP link for me, please!

[ 31 January 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[Atrocities]

Um, no mini's. What size do they need to be? 36 x 36? Naming sceme can be anything that is availible. IE p0200 and up????

[Suicide Junkie]

36x36, and set the naming to match the order in which the minis appear. (starting at one for the top-left)

PS: Somebody please try the FTP link on the imagemod page, and tell me if it works from offsite.

[dogscoff]

Well, I just tried the ftp link with my browser but it started complaining about passwords. I tried an anonymous login but it wasn't having any of it. Didn't try a specialised ftp client. Could also be some kind of firewall thing here at work but it seems unlikly.


How much space does an image mod mirror ned BTW? I might have room for it on my site. It's 24 hr and might serve Europe betetr than your US server.

(I'm seriously considering taking a tripod site BTW - 50 megs for free!)

[ 31 January 2002: Message edited by: dogscoff ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

The files are currently ~4MB, transfer limits are the biggest problem.

FTP: Try it again. I've tweaked some settings.

[Grayhorse]

Atrocities.

On your question for a download server, there are individuals who will host mirror sites and download sites in many areas. Most charge depending upon the size of the mirror site or download site. I think the avg price is between 50.00 to 125.00 US dollars.

[dogscoff]

Here (http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/files/imgmod.zip) is my meagre contribution. I couldn't let the image mod go out without getting my finger in the pie=-)

There's a kind of flying religious multi-shrine thingy in there, but I'm not that pleased with it. Maybe it will insire someone else to do it better than I did.

I'm far more pleased with my bizarro worlds=-)

[Suicide Junkie]

Cool, CubeWorlds!

I'm ready to ditch the FTP thing, if it still dosen't work... I've got a second link that goes through HTTP to get the same files. Hopefully that will work better.

[Atrocities]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>set the naming to match the order in which the minis appear. (starting at one for the top-left)<hr></blockquote>

Ok, forgive me, but I have no idea what you just told me to do. Just name the mini's starting with p0001????? or p0200?

I am not sure how to add them to the planet.bmp though. Sorry. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Fyron]

SJ: I tested your ftp client with Internet Explorer. It works fine for me.

I don't mind being the primary server for the mod, as long as there are not more than 125 downloads of all 4 files per day or more than 1,250 downloads of all 4 in a month, we'll be fine. I included a http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif and "no worries" in my post to indicate that I don't mind. And people need to click on the ad banner, so I don't get terminated.

On your page that lists the download mirrors for the mod, please put a little note that says to click on the ad banner on my site if people want to download the files from my site. It turns out that I'm not supposed to incentivize clicks on the ad banner, but there is no problem if other people do it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I noticed a problem on your main page. Some links have your site's url in the front of them. I think that with the geocities server, if you don't put "http://" in front of a url, it will think that the linked page is part of your site. Also, you left out a " in the link to spaceempire.org, which caused links to be read incorrectly. I've make a revised copy of the html for you and posted it here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1012520522.txt). It is in text file form, so you can click on it and read the html. Just save it over your index.html (or whatever the main page is called) and you'll be good to go.

Edit: Hmm, it seems that shrapnel wants to interpret the file as an html file, not a text file. Oh well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ 31 January 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

Atrocities:
Just stick the 36x36 pixel minis in a long (big#)x36 image, side by side.
Name the portraits so that they match the minis:
count from 1 to 9999 going across like you are reading an (english) book.

All I really need is a nice package of minis, and the ability to tell which protrait goes with which mini, without opening the files all the time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Fyron:
Thanks. I think I've got all of them. (Excuse me for redoing the work manually, I've gotta work those errors out or I won't learn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )
PS: there seems to be a continuous stream of 20-30 hits per day, so you shouldn't run outta transfer. Especially now that I've got two other links to take some load.
As long as my current FTP site dosen't eat up 100's of megs in a day, I won't catch any flak.
I'll be setting up a second with unlimited transfer soon (friday if things go smoothly), with nobody to complain about it except my younger siblings http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Unfortunatly the price comes in the form of random downtime & lame "ISP dosen't feel like putting you through to the internet now, even though the connection is solid" error Messages.

[Andrés]

It's easy to make worlds with more bizarre shapes than just cubes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

At Last the flying temple I'm modeling starts to resemble the image I have in my head. Still have to add it the skull, statue and other artifacts from the religious facilities.

1012537656.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1012537656.zip)
(Note these are just silly examples and the preview of a picture in progress. If you find them interesting could easily make similar things)

[Fyron]

SJ:
You're setting up your own ftp server? Man, I hope you've got plenty of uploading bandwidth with your internet connection. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif My cable modem only gives me 6 KB/s uploads, which just plain sucks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Fyron]

You know, its a good thing that you created an Image Mod request thread, cause I seem to have lead everyone away from the original purpose of this one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

dogscoff:
the bizzaro world one? Yes.

Fyron:
Yes. I'm not sure, but at least 12KB/s on a good day. The transfer is unlimited though.

[Fyron]

Umm, your ftp server now gives me a message warning that proxy settings disable moving, deleting, pasting, etc., to the server. This is fine. However, I can't download any of the files. I wanted to see what the download speed would be, but I can't for some reason.

[Suicide Junkie]

I found I had to right-click & say "copy to folder..."
It dosen't seem to like Drag-and-Drop.
Ah, well. I'll ditch the FTP link, but there is a HTTP link to the same site lower down on the list.
The site won't come back Online until monday morning, anyways.

I'm setting up a second mirror now, that should be on most of the time...

PS: Fyron:
Does your host allow off-site image links? If so, you can copy the "Online" image I made, and I'll link to it like I am doing for my mirror.

[ 02 February 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[dogscoff]

S_J, have you downloaded and integrated my contribution? I'd like to take that zip down from my webspace.

[Fyron]

Umm, do you mean: can my site link to images on other servers, or do you mean: can other sites link to images on my server?

[Suicide Junkie]

Would it work if:
- You put a 235-byte GIF on your server.
- I link to it on the "choose a mirror" page
- If your site is up, the image appears to indicate that.

+++++++++++

Submission Update Time:
I've looked through the thread, and I added:
- Loknar's new mine component
- Dogscoff's shrine
- Loknar's Cyan & Purple stars
- Maleldil's cartoon submission.

I have partial downloads of:
- Fyron's planets submission with the solar system images. (Need credit.txt)
- Matryx's Hubble Warppoints (Need minis)
- Andrés Lescano's SW planets (Need credit.txt)
- Atrocities' Planets (Need minis)

If I'm going blind/senile, and you uploaded the "missing" bits already, please point that out, and I will look again.

[ 02 February 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[Fyron]

Hmmm, try using this link:

http://galileo.spaceports.com/~kazharii/other_art/imagepack/Online.gif

It loads the picture if I paste the link into the address bar. Let's see if it will work on your site.


I clicked on the link created here, and it gave me "file not found". Try it on your site anyways and we'll see what happens.


I did a partial download of one of the files from your server, and the download speed averaged a little under 6 KB/s (I get 30 KB/s on my site, for reference). This is what I thought would happen. If you get several peole downloading from your server at once, then they are going to get really slow downloads.


Oh yeah, the planets I uploaded were not done by me. I downloaded them from Shrapnel 5 months ago. There is no credits or readme file in the zip, so I have no clue who created them. I'll try looking in the Shrapnel archives to see if I can find out who did them.

Is there a new Version of the mod I need to host?


[ 02 February 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[Fyron]

I have not been able to find seplanetsver071.zip in the old downloads forum.

I did find a green stars mod done by Loknar, however.

[Suicide Junkie]

Well, the link failed. Oh, well. Your site is "always on" anyways.

6 K/s, eh? Well, you are all the way across the continent from me...
Have you tried using something like getright or one of the other download accelerators?
( http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif DUH! Just realized that download was probably slowed down due because my siblings are all still awake, surfing and downloading (video clips, even!) on two other computers) Try again in an hour, the local traffic should be over by then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .
The best time would probably be 8 hours after I made this post, on weekdays that are not Tuesdays. (got all that? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

I haven't posted a new Version yet... there was one addition to components, one to facils, and a bunch to planets.

Try grabbing the new planets.zip from my mirror, and use the download tools if you've got 'em. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

++++++++++

Re: planets you submitted.
If nothing else, you could make a credits detailing what you do know. NASA images, a year old, unknown original poster, etc.

PS: I just got an email, indicating that the transfer limit on my original site is 3 GB/mo, measured at 4MB/h (one complete imagepack download per hour).

PPS: try "imagemodserver.mine.nu (http://imagemodserver.mine.nu)

[ 02 February 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[Fyron]

Very strange thing happened. I downloaded the Planet Pack with GetRight, and it became a corrupt, invalid zip file. I then downloaded it without GetRight, and it worked fine. Very bizarre.

When I used GetRight it downloaded at 12 KB/s with one download and with three simultaneous downloads. When I downloaded it without GetRight, it downloaded at 13 KB/s. This is what I predicted. The total bandwidth for your server at any given time will be ~12 KB/s. I suggest you try and get a test set up where you have 10 or so people download the files at the same time. Make sure some use various broadband connections and some use dial-up modems. If theay all get ~1.2 KB/s (or some other small number), then I'm right. If they get better downloads, then I'm full of hot air. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

And about being on the other side of the continent from you, that is most irrelevant. So each stream of data takes 2 billionths of a second to reach me instead of 1 billionth. Big deal. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif The part about annoying younger siblings eating up your bandwidth makes perfect sense.

[Suicide Junkie]

Oh, well. The unlimited transfer is still worth it.

Bump:
I have partial downloads of:
- Fyron's planets submission with the solar system images. (Need credit.txt)
- Matryx's Hubble Warppoints (Need minis)
- Andrés Lescano's SW planets (Need credit.txt)
- Atrocities' Planets (Need minis)

[Matryx]

Ahhh..
finally here you go. the minis for the hubbleimages.
(Here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1012680616.zip))

[Fyron]

You want a credits.txt for files I didn't make? Fine! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Pictures XXX-YYY were submitted by Imperator Fyron. They were not made by him. He downloaded them during the summer of 2001 from the Shrapnel graphics modifications forum. They were in a zip file entitled "seplanetsver071.zip". The file had no readme or credits.txt in it. A search of the old files forum yielded no results as to who originally posted them. If you know who made them, please tell us so we can give proper credit where it is due.

How's that? You can shorten it if you want to.

[Andrés]

TATOOINE
originally made by Dan North &lt;Dannorth@bigpond.com&gt;
downloaded from Sci-Fi3D

CORUSCANT
originally made by Topa &lt;Topa@sunpoint.net&gt;
downloaded from Sci-Fi3D

Both of them edited for SE4 by me.
There are a few other planets there, but I don't think they are different enough to be worth adding.
Take a look at
http://www.theforce.net/scifi3d/starwars/environment/planets.htm
and tell me if you want me to make portrait and minis from any of those pics.

[Suicide Junkie]

Matryx, Fyron, Lescano:
Done!
PlanetPack.zip is now a beefy 2,848 KB!!!

Just waiting for Atrocities' minis, and new submissions now...

There's lots of room for new beam & torpedo images, as well as all the components that have been requested in the other thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

+++++++++++++

All the ZIPs have been updated to v1.3
All have at least one change, plus major credits upgrades.

[Atrocities]

I will have the planet images ready by the end of tomorrow. Sorry about the time thing, but I have other pressing matters. Thanks SJ for the info on what I need to do.

[Matryx]

SJ, I just got a 404 from Geocities when trying to download facilities, combat and component packs.
it wasn't a 'this file is currently unavailable' error it was a 'this file really doesn't exist' one.

Edit:
oh.. and I just noticed the PlanetPack was only V1.2 when it downloaded...

[ 03 February 2002: Message edited by: Matryx ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

Argh, a stupid case-sensitivity error. I'm on it.
...Done...

[ 03 February 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[Fyron]

Hmm, new Version. Guess I better get those.

Umm, v1.3? What happened to v1.2? Do we not like even numbers? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

If you want, I can make you like 12 or so more mirrors.

[Suicide Junkie]

I'm trying to keep the numbers together, so a mod can say "needs v1.3", rather than "needs combat v1.2, planets v1.7, components v1.12, and facilities v1.6"

The more the merrier, although we shouldn't need that many. I was only getting 30 hits a day.
(Heh. Getting hit for an upload right now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

If the mirrors support an offsite image link, that would be best, so I can put the Online/offline indicator up. I'll take lots of those http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

[Fyron]

Okay, my site is all updated now. I changed the format a bit more to my tastes. I'll try and find some free web hosts that allow off-site image links so I can make some more mirrors.

[Atrocities]

Ok, I hope this is what you needed me too do.

New Planets Zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1012806755.zip)

[Suicide Junkie]

Very nice.
They should all be in & uploaded by Tuesday night.

[Val]

SJ:

I posted new components in the B5 mod in the latest update - I moved them down pretty far, actually extended your sheet a bit. There are some blanks, but they will be filled in as new weapons of those categories are added (wanted to keep them grouped together). I still have more to add, probably another 4-5 lines worth. Just finishing up engine and reactor components and still have a few weapons to do.

I also fixed the beam and torps on the B5 mod to be further down the list and the Planets as well (they are in slot 541 & 542) - though I forgot to add the Planets to my disk this morning, have to wait 'til tonight to upload.

Let me know if their placements (number wise) are ok, I've already updated all my data files to match the new numbers.

Thanks!

[Suicide Junkie]

RE: numbers
I usually just grab the components from wherever they are, and renumber them accordingly. If you want to renumber them for me, I won't complain http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

For now, start on the next free row of the mini.bmp

I will have to test if components & facilities are limited to 999, or if they can go higher.
If not, I'll have to start cramming things into solid rows later.

[Val]

Planets are also now posted.

Planets.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1012921253.zip)

Here are the other components (& combat):

B5_Components.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1012846093.zip)

[ 05 February 2002: Message edited by: Val ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

Fyron: Noticed a little bug in your Imagemod mirror list.

The IP for my primary is not static, so the display always reads "offline". You need to use imagemodserver.mine.nu (http://imagemodserver.mine.nu) instead of the IP on the primary. The secondary is a static IP, so that one's OK.

Val:
Credits?

[Val]

Here you go.

Credits_Val.txt (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1013010195.txt)

[Suicide Junkie]

Sweet. SE4 just passed a big test. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

We are not limited to 999 component images.

There may be a limit at 64K, but it'll be a while before we get that many http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Keep the artwork coming!
I'll send out IM v1.4 on the weekend.

PS: my alternate mirror seems to have gone wonky, so I'll just drop it. There are still 3 left http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Fyron: Noticed a little bug in your Imagemod mirror list.
The IP for my primary is not static, so the display always reads "offline". You need to use imagemodserver.mine.nu instead of the IP on the primary. The secondary is a static IP, so that one's OK.<hr></blockquote>

Ok, all fixed now. I would have made some more mirrors by now, but I've been... err... distracted by Diablo II http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif . I'll get them made when I have a chance.

[Suicide Junkie]

Val: component #606 has two "."'s
"comp_606..BMP"

Most of the positions were OK, but I had to move your planets stuff to locations 581 through 583.
(Gate, hole, void)

Atrocities: Perfectly fine. 20 planets to a line, then going down to the next row would be slightly easier for me, but in any case, I'm done now.

+++++++++++++++

planetpack.zip has gotten so enormously huge that it has become worthy of an upgrade zip.
planetpack is 3.9 MB is size, while "planetpack3to4" is 1.8 MB in size.
Still massive, but worth hosting.

Combat and components have also updated, and the changes are progressing through the mirrors now.

"SJ's primary" will always be updated first, and will retain older files for longer.

I've added a nice new "updating" image for the mirror status window. Too bad I was likely the only one to see it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif


PS: Fyron:
The mirror grid on your page has a bit of a bug. Since geocities dosen't allow those off-site links, you need to use the "unknown" image there.

Replace the primary's status cell image with this:
By using status.gif, your visitors will be able to see the "Updating" and other miscellaneous Messages I may create.

[ 08 February 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[jimbob]

Yaaay!

Some of my moded images made their way into the image collection! Woo-hoo.

Well.. okay, yes, they were just modifications of MM's pictures, but what do you think I am, an artist? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

I'm pumped. Maybe I'll give the trial 3dsmax a try now.

[Fyron]

Well SJ, it's not as if I tested those links or anything. I just copied it from your site. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

More updates, huh? Guess I'll have to get those now.

And it turns out that spaceports does give me statistical info on the number of hits and the bandwidth used.

[ 08 February 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[Atrocities]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Atrocities: Perfectly fine. 20 planets to a line, then going down to the next row would be slightly easier for me, but in any case, I'm done now.<hr></blockquote>

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Ok, sorry about that, wasn't sure what in the hell I was doing. I just kept going and going and going. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Thanks SJ for doing all the work on this. You should take a lot of pride in knowing that many of us dearly appreciate what you and all of the other members have done here.

Are you going to make a banner for the page, along with banners for all of the Mirror sites?

[Suicide Junkie]

Hey, no prob. The key thing is that the minis are in a recognizable order http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

You're welcome. This project actually turned out to be less work than I expected, thanks to some of the early thread suggestions.

As for banners, I seriously doubt I can make a worthy banner. If I were to make one, I would probably try to make a collage of all the images submitted (or at least lots of them) to make a battle scene. Background stars would be from the submissions's minis, two or more ships made of collaged components, and mix in some of the crazy combat images.

My site is certainly not graphics oriented. I have one instance of the helix cannon from my sig, and 10 x 250byte status lights. And I just got an email yesterday saying the site had overflowed its bandwidth limit again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif


Fyron:
Hey, do those stats include the referrer? I'd like to see the distribution of clicks across the mirror list.

[Val]

SJ:

Could you reserve the next 4 lines from where I Last left off? I am working on adding the other weapons to B5 and am now adding other components as well. I will try to post as much as I have by Monday. I did post the living CPU and Shipboard Telepaths in :

CPU_Teeps_Med.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1013273570.zip)

Which has a large and 36x36 pic already. The large pics are episode clips. For the 36x36 I used the person from SE IV and added to them. You may also notice another line is half filled with new weapons under the lasers (these are matter weapons), the larger ones I will post all together http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Fyron]

SJ:
Here is a screenshot of what I get when I look at the hit statistics for February so far:

February Stats (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1013276957.png)

So to answer your question, no. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

EDIT:
In case anybody cares, I have redone the forum on my web site. Humor me and register on it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ 09 February 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

Oh well. You can probably estimate how many were for imagemod downloads by the total transfer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Regarding the reservation of lines.
since we have at least 3000 lines available, I don't see a problem with reserving extra lines.

Which component numbers are you planning on filling?

[Val]

B5ModComponents_New.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1013380549.zip)

I just filled another couple rows with crew components, reactors and engines (the empty spots in the engine/reactor rows are for the fighter and ancient tech - yet to be completed). So that brings my list to image 720 right now. I'm guessing your armors for B5 will take a row or two, torpedoes another row and Gravitic, AntiMatter & ElectroMag weapons another 2 rows. So I would like to hold the next 5-6 rows (721-841/865) for those components. I've also filled some of my currently empty space with Vorlon and Shadow weapons, Matter Weapons and PDF weapons (most PDF Versions of a weapon that is both PDF and Direct Fire have a blue muzzle). Also added crews (people in halls/med bays/security stations, Grappling Hooks, Breaching Pods, and some other things - in all I think it was about 91 new components.

SJ: How many different armors will we have for B5?

[Andrés]

I resampled all Fyron's BOTF image to remake all minis, wich now look really better.
I also added my facility images and updated readme.
Click Here (http://se4kdy.cyberwars.com/temp/facils.zip)

With all those reserved lines and all that I don't know where should I start to add my new comps. I'd really like to add them and start testing and finish the starwars comps with proper pictures and without having to change numbers later.

[Phoenix-D]

Hey SJ, you need another mirror for this?

I switched to Cox Cable, and they're pretty generous with their webspace (7 email addresses, 10mb per email box). As long as the imagemod doesn't go over 10mb total, I can mirror it.

EDIT: Actually, make that 20mb, though I'd have to split the files onto different web accounts for that, so no 11 MB files http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

[ 11 February 2002: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]</p>

[Fyron]

SJ:
I made another mirror:

http://kazharii001.tripod.com

Andres:
Thanks. I didn't really like how the minis turnes out, but I was too lazy to make them better.

[Suicide Junkie]

Val: Since I know you'll get them filled, you can reserve images 481 to 865, although I'm quite sure 865 isn't at the end of a row.

Andres: The 6 rows starting at #337 are available, all the way down to #480, where val's B5 stuff starts. How many rows do you need?

Phoenix: Sure. Give me a link, and check to see if it supports off-site image use.
Components is getting quite massive, but so far we're only at around 6MB total http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
You can copy the code from my site for the status lights, but be sure to correct the links, and be sure it works. For my geocities "Last resort" mirror, offsite use of images dosen't work, so you'll have to just hardcode the "Unknown" image for its status.

Fyron: Does tripod allow offsite image use?

PS: Great submissions.
I'm going to bed now, and I work late tomorrow. The update should happen Tuesday night.

[Phoenix-D]

OK, it's up and going
http://members.cox.net/se4imagemod/imagepack.html

(index.html works too, same file). Remote file viewing does work. The site has a 300mb/month transfer limit.. if that becomes a problem I'll bring another one on-line.

BTW, did you mean to have the "Last resort" and "SJ's Primary Mirror" links aimed at the same spot?

Phoenix-D

[Fyron]

PhoenixD:
SJ's primary mirror links to files that are on his ftp server at his house, whereas the Last resort page links to the geocities server.

SJ:
Well, here's a test:

http://kazharii001.tripod.com/Online.gif

Edit:
It doesn't seem to allow off-site image links. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I'll try and find a high-bandwidth web page server that will allow them.

[ 11 February 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[Val]

SJ:

Thanks for the confidence http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I think you are right in 865 not being a row end, since it should always end in an even number! I'll look again later today.

Andres:

That was pretty much my reason for reserving those rows - in fact I had actually started the B5 pics pretty far down to begin with so another mod could be used with it without the pics overlapping (before SJ had this excellent idea of combining them all). I tried to estimate everything I would need to get the mod complete and left a little space around different weapon Groups for future growth - should prevent me from any major renumbering for a bit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

Pheonix:
The URLs are very slightly different:
"imagepack2.html" and
"imagepacksj.html"
As fyron said, those two pages are identical except for the download links.

I'll add your site to my list.

Fyron: Are you going to maintain that site, or drop it?

Val: Hey, you've earned it by submitting gobs of stuff http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Andrés]

I guess that once components are added here and approved, new components will be added in new places and renumbering will never be necessary.

But I'm still confused on where should I add new stuff.
They will not be as many as yours, I estimate only 2 or 3 lines.

In the space left before B5 comps start? In a new row, or after Last comp? After all B5 stuff? And where's that?

[Suicide Junkie]

There's space before the B5 stuff starts. The rows from Image #337 to Image #480 is free.

Image #336 is 2 squares below the "destroyed" image, and #337 starts the next row.

If you have downloaded one of the Versions of the image pack, I've got numbers labelling the unused minis for convienience.

[Val]

I don't have a components file handy (and won't till later), but I was planning on ending at image 864, row 36 (I believe). If I fill everything within the 'B5 Zone' then I'll move on to whatever the next available row is - which might be after your SW stuff or even further down. I am actually hoping what I reserved should be pretty close to exactly how much space will be needed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Andrés]

Ok I didn't know if that space before B5 comps was already reserved.
I'll start in #337 then.
I've started to assign pic numbers to all comps and realized that they are a little more than what I thought and I had forgotten about the Vong living components. I'll need 4 or 5 rows. And most of them are yet to be drawn.

[Fyron]

SJ:
Well, that depends on you. Do you want another mirror that doesn't allow off-site image links? If so, I'll maintain it. If not, then I'll drop it.

[Suicide Junkie]

Andrés:
That shouldn't be a problem. There are six rows before the B5 stuff.

Fyron:
Maybe you should try it, and see how much traffic it gets after the next update.
I suspect the "Unknown" status will hurt it, but if enough people use it, then keep it.

[Andrés]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
Andrés:
That shouldn't be a problem. There are six rows before the B5 stuff.<hr></blockquote>
Right I was just telling you that I'm planning to use most of that space and if anyone else wants to add anything else should use that 6th row or after all B5 stuff.

[Atrocities]

BUMP

[Suicide Junkie]

Updated.

Fyron:
Mirror updating time. My primary will have both update and full packages, while the geocities page will have only updates.

[Phoenix-D]

Updated my mirror. Not that many people will find it yet, being unlinked as it is.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

[Suicide Junkie]

Oopsy. I've added both of the new mirrors to my list, now.

Phoenix:
Your status.gif is currently showing "BUSY", while after click through to your site, it shows "ONLINE"

I'm guessing that you just copied the image while I was playing "CounterStrike", hence the "BUSY" status.gif

What I've done is set up some batch files, which copy Online/busy/updating overtop of the status.gif. One click, and my site's status.gif changes to show whats going on http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Phoenix-D]

"I'm guessing that you just copied the image while I was playing "CounterStrike", hence the "BUSY" status.gif"

Apparently. I've changed the "status.gif" to be Online instead of "busy" since I have no way of knowing when Cox's network will be busy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

[Fyron]

Ok, my mirrors are updated now.

I have altered the stellar cartography section of my web site. What do you think of the new format?

[Phoenix-D]

Reposted here for good measure.

Unless Andres (how DO you do that thing above the e?) objects, here's my submission for the imagemod.
http://members.cox.net/se4imagemod/PDsubmit1.zip

Includes the two ringworld images plus two of mine- a smaller WP and a stellar-sized Black Hole.

Phoenix-D

[Suicide Junkie]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Unless Andres (how DO you do that thing above the e?) objects, here's my submission for the imagemod.<hr></blockquote>I just copy-paste the character from Andrés' Posts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Fyron:
The stellar cartography section looks good. In order to improve the navigation through it, I suggest putting a little info icon on those planets that have the extra detail page. As well, on the galaxy map, something to indicate the stars that have hyperlinks would be nice. An icon or a bracket of some sort.

[geoschmo]

To get é, hold down ALT and type 0233.

If you need to do it a lot I am pretty sure you could reprogram an f-key to do it or make a hot key for it. You can also buy a non-english keyboard which will sometimes have a key for it, depending on the language it's intended for.

Geoschmo

Edit: I guess I was wrong about being able to reprogram a key to do it. But I guess as long as you can remember the keystrokes it's not that difficult to do. You can also go to start/programs/accesories/character map if you forget the keystrokes.

[ 18 February 2002: Message edited by: geoschmo ]</p>

[Andrés]

NP adding those ringworlds. If you want I can try making another variation.

BTW I'm making a few more pics for the sci-fi crossover mod. I have a few more new comps, retouched a little some facilities and used a full line in the torps pic (81-90).

Wow I didn't know about the Alt+0233 (UCS - Unicode) I used Alt+130 (ASCII)
HTML code is &amp;eacute;
Edit changed html code since it WORKS in this forums.

I have a spanish keyboard, the only char that has an exclusive keys is the Ñ. To type the é you have to type the ´ first and then the "e".
My old 486 had a US international keyboard, but it was configured for spanish and I could type it by typing '+e

[ 18 February 2002: Message edited by: Andrés Lescano ]</p>

[Fyron]

SJ:
Hmm, spaceports seems to have disappeared. Guess I can't make any changes at the moment. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Fyron]

SJ:
Well, spaceports has returned. I placed a small graphic next to all the planets that have info pages. What sort of graphic would be good on the galaxy map? I didn't really want to mess it up with little icons everywhere, but if there is a problem, I can make do.

Everybody else:
You know, the lot of you can respond to my inquiries as to the quality of my web site. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Any and all constructive criticism will be much appreciated.

[Phoenix-D]

"You know, the lot of you can respond to my inquiries as to the quality of my web site. Any and all constructive criticism will be much appreciated."

Well, let's see. At first I couldn't find the section you were talking about, and gave up. Now I found it.. but the stellar map takes up about, oh, a 5th of the screen. You didn't design for 800x600 I take it..

Phoenix-D

[Fyron]

Well, no. I assumed that not many people with more than a passing interest in computer use would be using 800x600 resolution. Heck, I use 1280x1024, so I have to resize my screen to check it out on the optimal resolution (1024x768). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I guess those 224 pixels make a huge difference. My main page used to say that the site is designed for at least 1024x768 (and 16-bit color and Internet Explorer), but I guess that paragraph fell off into a void a while back. I think I'll add it back in there when I get a chance.

If you still want to see my site, you could temporarily change your screen resolution to 1024x768.

[Fyron]

I just cut 16 pixels off the top frame in the cartography section.

My plan is to eventually eliminate the frame on the top of my site and replace it with a drop-down navigation menu. Unfortunately, I can't get it to work on the server at the moment, so I need to figure out why. My menu works on my computer, but it screws up when I upload it to my site. Very strange.

[Fyron]

You know, hosting the Image Mod on my site has done wonders for the traffic. I've had 185 unique visitors so far in February. Woohoo! And, the ratio of "Pages (unique)" to "Unique Visitors" is 7.908, meaning that alot of people are actually visiting the other pages on my site. I feel so special. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Hmm... I need to stop making so many Posts in a row.

[Phoenix-D]

"Well, no. I assumed that not many people with more than a passing interest in computer use would be using 800x600 resolution."

My eyesight is bad enough without having to squint just to see the Windows icons, to say nothing of text..

Phoenix-D

[Phoenix-D]

1024x768 is halfway OK, but man, anything higher than that is pretty insane. Not sure I'd even want to stick with this rez, either.

17 inch NEC monitor, FYI. 1280x1024 is as high as it will go. No idea what the refresh rate is, but it isn't good.

Phoenix-D

[dogscoff]

I downloaded the image mod and saw some empty spaces after my cubeworlds...

So I've drawn some more.=-) Hope to post tonight.

BTW, does anyone here read The Tick? There is a good reason for asking...

[dogscoff]

Nope. You remember the one where Chairface Chippendale decided to carve his name on the surface of the moon with a big laser, but only got as far as "CHA"?


SPOOOOOOON!!

[ 19 February 2002: Message edited by: dogscoff ]</p>

[Val]

Heh, even better!

[Suicide Junkie]

Dogscoff:
Yay! An on topic post http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .
What about a sports theme? Baseball, tennis, basketball and volleyball planets. Bats, rackets and nets for weapons and shields http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
That would probably be better for a conVersion mod, though, where you'd just replace the original images, rather than running through all the files to change image numbers...

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>1024x768 is halfway OK, but man, anything higher than that is pretty insane. Not sure I'd even want to stick with this rez, either.<hr></blockquote>I use 1152 x 864 at home.
At work, my Monitor supports 1600x1200, so I use it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>My eyesight is bad enough without having to squint just to see the Windows icons, to say nothing of text..<hr></blockquote>- Rightclick the desktop, choose properties.
- Click the Appearance tab.
- In the "Item" dropdown menu, choose "Icon"
- Crank up the size to 42 or so. (for 125% larger image area)
- The next two items in the dropdown list are Icon spacing. Tweak those until the Icons fit nicely. 48 should be good if you've used 42 for icon size.
- At this point, setting the resolution to 1600x1200 makes the icons are look as big as they look normally on 1024x768. If you stay with a normal resolution, the icons will be super sized.

[dogscoff]

OK, some more planets for the mod. These are in addition to the planets already submitted.

download at:
http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/files/Planetzip2.zip

S_J: Please post here when it is safe for me to remove the file from my site=-)


readme:
************************************************** ******************

Dogscoff's contribution the image mod's planets.

Cubeworlds bizarro
A few plain moons & things coz you can't have enough moons.
CHA moon If you don't read "The Tick", you won't get this.
Pentagram A really sinister planet.
Fragment world Does exactly what it says on the tin.

dogscoff@altavista.co.uk
http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/se4main.htm
************************************************** ******************

[Fyron]

SJ:
Hmm... you seem to have missed my question.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>What sort of graphic would be good on the galaxy map? I didn't really want to mess it up with little icons everywhere, but if there is a problem, I can make do.<hr></blockquote>

I would use a higher res, but my moniter only supports up to 1280x1024. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Dogscoff and SJ:
Hey, I am trying to steal this thread, but you sure aren't making it easy on me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Phoenix-D:
Sorry about the high-res requirement. You could try right-clicking on the Cartpgraphy link and selecting "open in new browser window." That would get rid of the border and the top frame, so the detail page would have more space. Then, view the page in full screen mode (F11 in IE), which will give it even more room.

[Suicide Junkie]

Dogscoff: Got it!

Fyron: I'd imagine a empire flag mini would be good. Add a small flagpole sticking into the specific star if it looks better.

PS: this thread cannot be hijacked because it is a submission thread, and thus, on-topic Posts are regularily added.

[Val]

Used to read it, and watched the cartoon. Why? You making the big Galacticus guy?

[Fyron]

SJ:
Flag pole? Now that would be very strange. Imagine, a million mile high pole stuck into a star. hehehe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Hmm... I guess I need to learn how to steal a thread from the masters (Gryphin and Growltigga). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[jimbob]

What would you build the pole out of to keep it from melting. Most metals would melt, and if you used asbestos your local safety drone from Galactic Health and Safety would be all over you. Just think of the fines!

[Fyron]

Safety drones? Fah! We shoot safety drones on sight!

[Val]

Component_Sub.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1014254783.zip)

Some new B5 stuff and P&N stuff

The P&N stuff is not prenumbered as I am not sure where you will place it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Also, I need to know if the Refract Armor goes in the B5 section or other section.

Thanks!

[Suicide Junkie]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Also, I need to know if the Refract Armor goes in the B5 section or other section.<hr></blockquote>Does it really matter?
In the end, you still glance through the minis, look up the number, and type that into your mod, no matter where the image ends up.
I imagine it would be best to place it in a group with other armor components for convenience.

[Suicide Junkie]

When you do, please use the full-sphere plasma armor, rather than the bottom-half-sphere http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Val]

Question for y'all:

If we extended the width of the Components.bmp, it won't "see" it in the program, correct? So, if we extended it by a little bit we could add numbers to the end of each row to indicate the Last component# in the row, right?

[Suicide Junkie]

I was thinking about that too.

If SE4 really does ignore the extra width, an extra five or six pixels down one edge would be useful.
(Write sideways in tiny font to keep the filesize down)

[Val]

Try it on a test comp.bmp. It would definately be a bonus!

Also, do you think we should but a little L/M/H in the lower left corner on the armors? So there is no confusion on which type it is. If so, will you add them? Else, what font/size do you want me to use?

Talk to you later!

BTW - How are the armors for B5 coming along?

Also, still working on a P&N fleet for ya.

[Val]

I guess not. Thought it might be easier to be sequential for the P&N stuff and keep it grouped together. I'll place them (P&N comps) in with the next post this weekend.

[Q]

Has anybody a good picture for the sphereworld?

Thank you for your reply.

[Val]

Components_2-23.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1014506194.zip)

Next installment of components.

50+ new ones. Added ElectroMagnetic, AntiMatter, Gravitic and some other weapons - I also renumbered the Plasma Battery over one (and reincluded it as a new component) to make room for another plasma weapon.

All I have left for the B5 weapons are the Minbari and Kirishiac Lords - with about a dozen other assorted weapons of various races! Then it is on to some of the other components.

Also added P&N row with stuff.

[Suicide Junkie]

Note: You should really avoid moving preexisting components. We want backwards AND forwards compatibility on this... tweaking or re-rendering is fine, but it should still be the same component.

I've added the sidebar of numbers on components.bmp, for everyone's convenience.

Components.zip is now over 3 Megs. An update zip from 5 to 6 is available at 1.2 Megs.

[ 24 February 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

[Phoenix-D]

SJ, you mind sending me an email when you update the files? I happened to look and see.. oh, you've updated twice since I have! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

EDIT: Actually, I think I just forgot to update the Version number for the one update.

Phoenix-D

[ 24 February 2002: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

Sure. But I don't know where to find your Email.
You could PM it to me.

Fyron, would you like me to Email you as well?

[Val]

SJ:

Not a prob, I don't plan on moving anything else. I had actually miscounted the row when I placed it and had intended it to be 'one over' - sorry 'bout that!

I take it the extra space on the edge had no effect?

[Suicide Junkie]

No problem.

I checked the edge thing, and it does work fine. I've gone and labelled the right-edge components using a blue bar down the far right side.
I did that for Facilities and planets as well, but I'm not going to bother uploading them for just that small change.

[Suicide Junkie]

Fyron:
Your mirror #2 dosen't seem to be working anymore...

[Phoenix-D]

"Create and maintain a Lycos Network web page as storage for remote loading, or as a door or signpost to another homepage."

I think it probably ran afoul of that.

Phoenix-D

[Fyron]

I don't know. They seem to have removed the 001 that was on my account. Now, its "kazharii" instead of "kazharii001". I guess they don't really like what I was doing. Well, nuts to them. See if I ever use the Lycos network again. So, I guess mirror #2 should be removed from the list.

SJ:
Yeah, email me when you do updates. Just don't email me the files, cause hotmail will yell at me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif They only let me have 2 MB in my account. This also gets to be a pain whan a lot of PBW game turns become available at once.

Well, I am going to bed now, so I'll update tomorrow.

[Fyron]

SJ:
Your primary mirror is offline at the moment, so I can't get the new files.
You should just delete my mirror #2 from the list.

[Suicide Junkie]

I've been away for 24hours, and its running windows, that's somewhat expected http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Its back now, though.

[Fyron]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Edit:
Umm, problem. On your Last resorts page, there is a patch from v1.5 to v1.6 for the comps file, but the comps file on your primary mirror is only v1.5.

[ 26 February 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

I think the Primary site is actually linking to the proper 1.6, but I just forgot to change the description.

Yep. The file size is 3,145 KB, as well.

Thanks for the report; I'll fix the description tonight.

My primary now shows the correct Version # and filesize.

[ 26 February 2002: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]</p>

[Fyron]

SJ:
No problem.

Could you place Version numbers on the file names too? IMO, "componentpackv1.6.zip" would be better than "componentpack.zip". I'm going to do this for my mirror.

Phoenix-D:
On your imagemod mirror, you list the Comabtpack as v1.6, but it is supposed to be v1.4.

[ 27 February 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

I was using the "planetpack.zip" naming style to simplify the link updating, but it wouldn't be too hard to change.

There you go. Version-numbered Zips.

[ 27 February 2002: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]</p>

[Phoenix-D]

"Phoenix-D:
On your imagemod mirror, you list the Comabtpack as v1.6, but it is supposed to be v1.4."

Ooopsie. I updated the wrong file http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

[Fyron]

Well, my sole mirror is now updated to the latest Version!

I've gotten more traffic to my website in this Last month than in the past 3-4 years that it's been up. Here is a screenshot (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1014783193.png) showing February's traffic thus far.

Edit:
Oh, and the screenshot is only 15 KB, so I am not really wasting any space on Shrapnel. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif The strange thing is that it is actually smaller than the jpeg Version of it, which was 80 KB. Although I assume that's because there are only about 9 colors in its palette.

[ 27 February 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[Val]

Components.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1014917921.zip)

Just filling up the empty spaces I left http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
A few Minbari Molecular and AntiMatter Weapons. Working on a few more.

[Late]

Just a few images I'd like to submit.
images.zip (http://www.kase.fi/~laurian/images.zip)

[ 28 February 2002: Message edited by: Late ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

Late: I'm getting a 404 error when clicking that link.
"/laurien/" dosen't seem to be valid.
If you can't fix your link, you could try uploading it (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=upload_form) to shrapnel instead.

[Val]

Reworked some images - made the new Minbari weapons a bit lighter and easier to see & straightened out the fighter class missiles. Also added a few new Minbari Weapons.

030102Components.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1014988550.zip)

[Late]

The link should work now. I'm also wondering if imagemod will have generic ship pictures in it?

[Suicide Junkie]

For shipsets, you want the Neoshipset Standard (http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/neostand.htm).
This ImageMod just deals with the Data mod side of the images, rather than the race images.

I just checked that submission, and it looks like everything is there.

That waterworld you made looks really cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Val]

The organic components look really good, what did you use to make them?

[Late]

All but one of the pictures that I made were done with PSP 7. I just tried differnt effects on very simple or exsisting images.

[Suicide Junkie]

Images Updated: Full / Patch size.
- Components: 3,292 KB / 987 KB
- Facilities: 1,654 KB / n/a
- Planets: 4,010 KB / 978 KB

[Fyron]

SJ:
On your primary mirror, the link to your Last Resort page is broken.

[Suicide Junkie]

Thanks, It was a copy-paste error. Fixed now.

[Fyron]

Ok.

I wish I had DSL instead of a cable modem, so I could upload these in 5 minutes instead of 30. I only get 6.30 KBps on uploads. Oh well.

[ 02 March 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[Phoenix-D]

Updated my mirror.

SJ, you ever planning on including the submission I sent in for the planetpack?

EDIT: here it is again
http://members.cox.net/se4imagemod/PDsubmit1.zip

Phoenix-D

[ 02 March 2002: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]</p>

[Fyron]

My site is now all updated. I fixed a broken link I had to SJ's primary mirror.

[Suicide Junkie]

I thought I'd gotten everything already. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif
Do you know how far back your link was posted?

[Fyron]

Could this be it? This was on page 5:

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
Reposted here for good measure.

Unless Andres (how DO you do that thing above the e?) objects, here's my submission for the imagemod.
http://members.cox.net/se4imagemod/PDsubmit1.zip

Includes the two ringworld images plus two of mine- a smaller WP and a stellar-sized Black Hole.

Phoenix-D<hr></blockquote>

Edit:
Hmm, I guess it was. Phoenix-D must have edited his post at the same time I made this one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ 02 March 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

Alright, done, you can re-upload the planetpack 5, and the 4to5 ZIPs,

or, you can download this addon (http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/tempstuff/pp5r2.zip) (892 KB). add/overwrite the files in both the patch and full v5, with the files in the addon ZIP.

Whichever is easier for you.

[Phoenix-D]

Thanks. Updated my mirror.

Phoenix-D

[Fyron]

SJ:
What space is available in the Components file and the Facilities file? I need about 110 component slots (about 5 rows) and about 50 facility slots (about 3 rows). Is 337-456 in Components.bmp open? How about 201-260 in Facilities.bmp? If they are, I'd like to reserve them for myself.

[Suicide Junkie]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
Andrés:
That shouldn't be a problem. There are six rows before the B5 stuff.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Right I was just telling you that I'm planning to use most of that space and if anyone else wants to add anything else should use that 6th row or after all B5 stuff.<hr></blockquote>
So, the row starting at 457 is free, as well as anything 889 or higher.

Facilities start at 193, the first full row starts at 201, nothing reserved.

[ 04 March 2002: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]</p>

[Fyron]

Well, in case anybody cares, I just got the March newsletter from my web host, spaceports.com. This is some unfortunate news. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Here it is in its entirety:

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Greetings,

Starting this month, we have implemented a new transfer limit of 100 megabytes per day and one gigabyte per month. This is
necessary to keep our services free for all Users. Those of you who have paid for ad removal will continue under the previous
limits of 500 megabytes per day and 5 gigabytes per month.

If your site has outgrown the new limits, Tera-Byte offers web hosting packages with much more monthly transfer for only pennies per
day. Visit http://www.tera-byte.com for more information.

Also, during the next few weeks, we will be consolidating some of our older servers into one or two larger servers. If you are on
an older server, this may result in some brief downtime as your site is moved. You may receive a followup e-mail on this in the
weeks to come if it affects your site.

If you have any questions, please join the Spaceports support chat at http://www.spaceports.com/java-irc.htm or visit the Spaceports
forums at forum.spaceports.com.

Thanks!

Spaceports<hr></blockquote>
These new bandwidth limits shouldn't affect my site, which had a total of 78 MB transfered in all of February. However, about 4-6 months ago, there was no transfer limit at all. Then they implemented 5 GB/month, and now this. I hope spaceports.com doesn't go the way of the dodo, cause they are the best free host I have ever seen.

[Fyron]

SJ:
So, in components.bmp, I am claiming the row beginning with 889, and the next 4 rows (for a total of 5 rows). I think the end of the Last row would be 1008.

And what about facilities.bmp? Can I have slots 201-260?

[ 03 March 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[Suicide Junkie]

Fyron:
Feel free to mirror only the update patches if you start running out of bandwidth. They should stay around 3 megs total for a while longer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

As for facilities, start with 193 to 220, and you can add rows when you need to.

Components, take 457 to 480, then 889+ when you run out.

I'd like to try and keep these files somewhat compact, since the whole set (not counting MM original images) is passing 10 megs compressed, 40 megs on disk. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

=============================================

Val: are you using components row 841?

Andrés: how are your images coming? Submitting a bit at a time is fine, and it helps to know you're still active http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ 04 March 2002: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]</p>

[Fyron]

SJ:
I still have some storage space left, and I can request more. I'll start deleting old patches after the next Version. My d/l bandwidth doesn't even approach the imposed limits, so that's not really a problem.

Well, the pictures I am adding are from MOO2, and I'd prefer to keep them all together.

Edit:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>As for facilities, start with 193 to 220, and you can add rows when you need to.<hr></blockquote>
So, does that mean that 221-300 are reserved? I only need around 50 slots, so if not, I won't have to add any new rows. And if they aren't reserved, I will start at 193 and reserve up to 250, just in case I add a few more than I am planning at the moment.

[ 04 March 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[Val]

Yeah, row 841 (currently blank) is slated for some additional Non-Weapon components - Fighter Bays, External Fighter Rails, External Cargo Bays, etc.

[Suicide Junkie]

No, facilities is a pretty quiet place.
I just want to keep the number of unused spots down.
If you're going to be using all of them, then its OK.

Val:
I was looking through the combat images, and a number of your beam images look like they should be torpedo images instead...
Also, quite a few may not show up in SE4 at all, since SE4 only uses the center 6x6 pixels or so when drawing beams, and the color on them is all at the edge.

PS: is anyone planning on doing the whole "new torp image for each tech level" thing?
If not I'll start on it.

[Fyron]

SJ:
Not many people are submitting facilities. According to a rough estimation I just made, after I submit these new ones, I will have submitted roughly 88% of all the facilities added in the image modpack (excluding the original ones, of course).

Yeah, keeping the number of unused spaces down is a good idea. But unicolor areas in bitmaps compress very very well. I am going to keep the components together in one area. They are of slightly lesser quality than the other pictures (MOO2 was made in 1995, after all), so dispersing them will make the file look weird. I'll try and find a few more pictures that can fill in the gaps, so that we can try and avoid the empty spaces.

[Suicide Junkie]

Compression dosen't help after you've downloaded, and not everybody has hundreds of megs of space to devote to SE4...

"I will have submitted roughly 88% of all the facilities added in the image modpack"
Are you counting the BOTF images?
According to my calculations, that statement implies that you will be submitting 767 new facilities http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

Ok, in facilitypack6, there are 92 new facilities. I plan on adding 50 more. I already added 75 BOTF facilities. That means I will have a total of 125 out of 142 new facilities, or 88%.

What are your calculations?

Edit:
Here is the first of the facilities. I uploaded it for no apparent reason. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Facil_193.bmp (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1015214991.bmp)

[ 04 March 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

[Val]

I do have to fix my beam images, does anyone know exactly what area the beams pic uses?

I kind of have the progressive beam thing going, but it is more of a weapon level progression (light - medium - heavy - ultra) - when I rework I'll do 3 per level to represent Prototype/Standard/Advanced in each group.

The torp looking images are meant to be bursts or pulses, rather than a steady beam - the ones I had tested looked ok, but once I know the area that is used I will make them look better.

[Suicide Junkie]

When I was making the images I submitted, I started with a "rainbow" pattern, and then snapped some Screenshots of the weapon in action.

"Ok, it goes up to orange, down to green, left to the third dark bar, right to the third bright bar" sort of thing.