*** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by ZeroAdunn:
I think you should tell them Kwok<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ha Ha.

What ZeroAdunn is referring to is that I don't think I'll be working on this mod any further. However, I think I might be able to convince Magnum357 (who is working on his own mod) to pick up most of the pieces I have scattered around.

[Edit Starts Here]

Honestly, I no longer have the time to work on the mod as needed and deserved. School, work, and life in general have all since required my full attention since September started.

Perhaps pieces of this mod will filter into other mods. There was some interesting ideas...who knows I might even do something with it myself later on when things have calmed down.

Sorry http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

PS - Zero - the "other" thing is on hold for now too.

[ September 21, 2002, 04:39: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Magnum357]

Oh man, that is too bad Caption. I was looking forward to it too. Yes, I had planned to make a Star Trek mode (based mostly off of SFB) but I put it on the back burner aswell. I too am in School, but I'm off this semester because I'm on academic probation. I suppose I could have a change of heart and try to do it again, but my plans are going to be pretty extensive. Also, I haven't learned HTML yet so I really don't know how to make a website let alone find a place where I could put the mode for free.

In my SFB mode, I was planning to make it "multi-era" where you would have TOS type ships (like what SFB uses and what you see in the original Television show) then use ships similar to what you see in ST 1 through 6 on the movies. Then uses ships like what you see in TNG era. But because of all these attacks from Trekkies about stuff being "Canon" (its happening with a lot of Star Trek stuff now on the internet) I'm a litte affraid of using pictures of Star Trek ships lately. I was thinking about making Star Trek ships that look similar to the what we see in Star Trek now, but with variations so that people couldn't attack my work.

I'm sorry to hear that you can't finish the project Captain, but I understand. For people who haven't done much with Moding SE4, it can be a very time consuming task. Heck, I'm still not al that familar with a lot of the features in the Data files (like the AI for example) so on some aspects I'm a novice at it.

[Timstone]

Darn, that's very unfortunate. I really looked forward to it. I hope somebody has the courage/time to complete it.

[minipol]

yeah, that's very unfortunate but i can understand it. it takes a lot of work to do a good mode. i wondered if it wouldn't be a lot less time consuming to just take the shipsets of atrocity, take the ai from TDM and use that as a base for a star trek mod?

[jimbob]

Oh, that really is too bad.
Just out of curiosity, approximately what % of the mod is done, and even more importantly, what % of each area (AI, tech trees, components, facilities, graphical art, other areas) is 'complete'.

I'm just wondering if we could split up the work amongst those of us who would love to see this mod come to light, and then have the good Captain act as advisor/director.

Honestly Captain, there are tons of people working on the B5 project, but it seems like you've been toiling fairly alone. I'd be willing to help YOU, and we could set a timeline (I'm thinking 3-4 mo. with 4 to 5 helpers) for completion, with various check points along the way.

While I can't do AI, I can do just about anything else (just very very slowly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

[Brennan]

That really does suck. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I do understand though. I would love to help if people wanted to try a alternate simpler mod that could be slowly upgaded.

[Atrocities]

Kwok, your efforts will be missed horribly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Thanks for trying.

I agree M357, by the way, your one of the oldest member I know... From the old SEIV Forum... The Fans of Trek have been attacking in abundance as of late. That is one reason why I developed my own ships for many of the races I am using, and used SFB ships for the others. SFB images are well deversifited, and the authors, if known, simply want you to post credit for their work if you use it. People such as Ghost have given permission to use his images, and others have as well. Hell I think even a few of them play the game themselves and are happy that they don't have to make sets because they are already out.

If you make the image, then no one, not even paramount, can ***** about its use.

********
Could you send me what you have on components and facilities. I have been working on my own mod, (The Atrocities Mod) and would like to incorp, if ok with you and M357, into my mod.

The mod could is designed to use the ship sets that I have developed with unique racial traits, individual techs, and combined tech for each race.

It is an over whelming task to say the least, and any help is appreciated.

I hope that you will continue to post here, and such.

***** And One Last favor if you would be so kind C Kwok. Could you, if you decide to keep it up, post a link to my new site in your links section. Thanks if you do, and I understand if you don't. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif *****

Best wishes

Atrocities

[ September 22, 2002, 06:00: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

[Captain Kwok]

Atrocities:

That sounds fine. Just ask me what ideas/items you are interested in and I'll send you the components. I don't have too much stuff organized and it might be confusing if I sent in its current form.

It is a time consuming task...

[ September 22, 2002, 06:31: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Timstone]

That's great Atrocities! I wish I had the time and capabilities to help. And for JimBob, fantastic idea! I really hope this mod will see the light of day.

[ZeroAdunn]

Hey Kwok, could I get all the files you have so far?

[jimbob]

The Fans of Trek have been attacking in abundance as of late.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">People that criticize tick me off, especially if they're unwilling to do any work. Point 'em out to me, and I'll introduce 'em to a world o' hurt. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Edit: Didn't read Timstone close enough, deleted sentence that could be considered stupid.

[ September 22, 2002, 22:26: Message edited by: jimbob ]

[Magnum357]

Hey Atrocities,

Ya, I have heard of Ghost too. I have downloaded many of his TOS models for SFC (man, what an awsome SFB game1) and his work is astounding! I'm in the process of learning how to 3D model with Milkshape and although its not the most sophisticated 3D modeling program, it makes some convincing work. What I was planning to do is make some original 3D models for my SFB mode. They would be designs of Federation and other races ships based on the SFB game system only they would look somewhat different then what is seen in the game and in Star Trek. That way, it would be my own original artwork and no one could attack me. I could also offer these model pictures to others in the SEIV community so that they could use them for their modes of Online games without stupied Trekkies attacking them.

I already got some design concepts of the Federations Heavy Crusier in the works, but its taking me a while to get it ready for milkshape. If you want, I will continue my design concepts and keep working on the ships. Although I'm still novice on this 3D stuff, I could provide some artwork ability for the community.

[Timstone]

Jimbob: Woh, sorry for just giving my support. Won't happen again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings.

I have some good news. I have decided to carry on with the TNG mod! Look for the website to be updated by Saturday.

I have no idea when I'll be finished it or when some sort of Version will be ready for download...but I'll continue working on it when I have some time available.

[Brennan]

That is really great! Even if you could publish just a beta mod than maybe we could help you with that would be cool. But it is your ship and you are the captain so don't sweat it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[minipol]

good news!

[Fyron]

Make up your mind already Kwok! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Timstone]

Great! We'll follow your every step.

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings!

I have updated the TNG Mod website today as promised. There's not much in the way of new information yet, but the site's design has been updated and looks better. Let me know if you see any broken images or links!

Look for another update shortly as I'll be adding a lot more stuff then. Thanks for your support!

The link to the site is in my signature below.

[ September 28, 2002, 19:06: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[ZeroAdunn]

great news....

[jimbob]

All links working. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[gregebowman]

Originally posted by jimbob:
The Fans of Trek have been attacking in abundance as of late.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ok, I don't understand this. I'm a Trekkie, but due to pressures of life I haven't been able to absorb Star Trek 24/7 like some people have. I gave up on reading most of the novels because there's no continuity in the Star Trek universe between the books, the comics and the series and the movies. Since the only visual clues we have to what some ship types may look like are from the occassional new model in a movie or an episode, how can anyone claim that some ships are not canon? I can understand Paramount putting some pressure on due to copyright infringements, but I can't understand what I'm reading about these hardcore Trekkies who are apparantly crying "Foul!" if something doesn't match their pre-conceived ideas 100%. Can someone explain this to me?

[ September 30, 2002, 02:06: Message edited by: gregebowman ]

[Suicide Junkie]

Quite simply, if it did not appear in an official movie or TV episode, it is not Canon.

That makes it very easy to object to almost anything if you feel like complaining.

[gregebowman]

I can't see why people are making an issue of this. Not all of these ship types have ever been represented in a visual form in either a movie or an episode. How can anyone claim what is canon or not? I'm all for anything Star Trek, and as long as a ship has 2 nacelles and a saucer section, I can't see why anyone would complain. But I know there are always people who are sticklers for the rules, but come on, closing down websites because a few ships aren't canon? That's beyond idiotic, IMHO.

[Suicide Junkie]

"How can anyone claim what is canon or not?"
- By watching every episode/movie, research, and/or being a trivia junkie

"That's beyond idiotic, IMHO."
- A lot of people would agree with you; probably everybody here.

[Captain Kwok]

I think people take the show far too seriously. They have to make or find an explanation for every little detail.

For Example:

Klingons have ridges on their forehead...in the original series they did not. In Enterprise they do - and that has angered some fans to the point where they won't watch the show! Even Gene Roddenberry himself said the Klingons were always intended to have the ridges, they just didn't have the money to do it during the first series.

I don't care for any of that crap nor do I need to put big warnings blah blah blah. Especially these Star Fleet Battles people with their official dreadnoughts and crap - umm, dummy - that stuff is not cannon either!

Anyways...thanks for visitng the site often and pushing over the 2500 hit mark. I'm quite impressed...

[Captain Kwok]

Whoops!

I forgot to mentioned that I won't get a chance to update the site until the weekend because of two poorly placed mid-terms this week. Ugh.

[Magnum357]

Hey Captain, I hope you weren't referring to me on that Last comment about SFB people. Ya, I agree that SFB is definitly not Canon, but it is still a good game and has its own history seperate of Star Trek. I have always considered SFB as an alternate Timeline/universe to Star Trek. That is why I don't stress SFB ideas to your mode.

[Captain Kwok]

No worries Magnum, my comments were directed at those who consider SFB to be the end-all to Kirk-era trek - not just a game.

[oleg]

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
I think people take the show far too seriously. They have to make or find an explanation for every little detail.

For Example:

Klingons have ridges on their forehead...in the original series they did not. In Enterprise they do - and that has angered some fans to the point where they won't watch the show! Even Gene Roddenberry himself said the Klingons were always intended to have the ridges, they just didn't have the money to do it during the first series.

I don't care for any of that crap nor do I need to put big warnings blah blah blah. Especially these Star Fleet Battles people with their official dreadnoughts and crap - umm, dummy - that stuff is not cannon either!

Anyways...thanks for visitng the site often and pushing over the 2500 hit mark. I'm quite impressed...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, it is very easy to explain : Klingons were very impressed by bravery and corage of Captain Archer. Human' facial features become quite fashionable among Klingon' braves almost to the point that pLastic surgeons become wealthiest citizens of Klingon Empire. But, as it always happen, even this commendable fashion disappeared after some time.
It also does explain why Worf declined to discuss the issue - it would admit vanity of Klingon warriors !

[jimbob]

Ok, out comes my total ST geek side:

I remember reading in the ST roleplaying game (blush) by FASA waayyy back in the 80's something about the Kirk era klingons being a human-klingon genetifc fusion to allow better combat vs. humans (understanding human thought psyche, and strategies I guess). Well that was their way of whitewashing the inescapable reality that Gene just didn't have enough cash for good makeup.

[DavidG]

Why is it that hardcore Trekkies have to explain everything? Like when Kirk and the boys were flying back and forth on the bridge. Didn't TNG 'explain' this as some kind of inertial damper failure when the real reason was that in 1966 it just looked cool and made the ship look like it was being attacked.
I am a diehard old Trek fan but it boggles my mind how anyone could whine about things being "non-canon". Heck anything after TOS could be considered non-cannon. It's just a TV show for crying out loud.

[jimbob]

Dave, it's just one of the many unexplainable mysteries of the physical world. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ZeroAdunn]

Actually this is what I heard about the klingons:

Early klingons used midget slaves to design and construct everything. Consequently kirk Era klingon ships had very low hanging doorways. The klingons, being of normal height would constantly bash into these doorways, thus smoothing out their doorways. Eventually the klingons got tired of the romulans making jokes about it and redesigned all their ships to correct specifications.

On a sad note, all the klingon midgets were slaughtered for their misdoings.

[jimbob]

...thus smoothing out their doorways.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wow, now those are thick skulls if they smooth out the doorways instead of the foreheads! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ZeroAdunn]

Oi! Humor doesn't work when your an idiot... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Captain Kwok]

I'll be updating the TNG Mod site later this evening with some fun tidbits of information in regards to some new things I've come up with.

Stay tuned.

[Timstone]

*Lot's of cheers from the gathered crowd*

[Magnum357]

Sounds cool!

[ZeroAdunn]

I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "you the man Kwok!"

[Captain Kwok]

I have updated the TNG mod site with the new information I spoke of earlier. Check out Treknology as most of the new stuff is there. Let me know what you think. Also, graphics has a new image as well.

[Timstone]

It looks great! I like the pic of the Defiant class ship on the News Page. Keep up the good work!

[Suicide Junkie]

Hey, I could add an SE4 weapon animation that looks like that! As long as your ship is facing the enemy, it'll look great!

[Captain Kwok]

Hey SJ, why don't you whip me an animation and send it to me? I'll critique it when I get home later tonight..

Oh, 600 Posts, only 200 to go before I'm officially a Captain.

[ October 07, 2002, 16:18: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Suicide Junkie]

I'm thinking of a recolored "Beam" Version of the little blue Point Defense "Torp" animation.
It would lay down a stream of orange darts to the target.
You would see something like:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">=.....o
==....o
===...o
====..o
=====.o
.====(o
..===(o
...==(o
....=(o
.....(o</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

[Brennan]

Very Cool Captain! Good idea with the captains!

[TerranC]

I have a slight beef with the defiant.

Great job, but I think the nacelles should be swept back. It looks like it's swept to the front.

And since it's not canon...
*Sees 30 pulse beams heading in his direction*

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by TerranC:
And since it's not canon...
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Fire Quantum Torpedoes Mr. Worf!

[Magnum357]

Hey guys, this is sort of off topic, but I'm pretty excited about this new star Trek game comming out. Its called Starfleet Command 3 and soon to hit stores by December about the same time Nemisis will come out. Ok, I'm going to hear it now "oh whats the point, its based off of SFB rules. I want a Star Trek game, not a Non-canon board game!", that is whats going to make SFC3 a great game. Its not going to be based on SFB, but on an entirely new game engine.

From what I have heard, its going to be very close to the TNG manual in terms of weapons and such. Some of it is still going to have its roots with SFB/SFC, but a lot of it is rewritten for use in the Next Generation era. But just remember, its a Tactical Ship combat game and not a roleplaying game so if you want something like that, you might want to look else where. But if ship combat is your thing for Star Trek, I recommend keeping an eye on this puppy.

Here is an article on what is in store for this game. I would give it a read if your interested...

http://www.starfleetcommand3.net/newsdetailed.asp?id=72

[Timstone]

I tried playing one of it's predecessors, but I didn't like it very much. It was too slow. It took ages to turn a ship around for a good chanche of blowing the enemy out of the sky. Maybe I wasn't good enough witht he controls, but it didn't had that much apela to me anymore. I am willing to give it aonther try, but I won't pay a single buck for it. I'll run of to the library and lend it there, or even better borrow it from a friend of mine.

[Captain Kwok]

I've never had the opportunity to play any of the Starfleet Command series. They look like they might be some fun. I don't really care what they are based on, canon/not-canon, it doesn't really matter to me.

[gregebowman]

I did buy the first Starfleet Command game, but gave up after awhile because of the high learning curve. I have no patience for that, and if I can't learn the game after a couple of hours of experimenting, I usually put it aside. That'w why I like SEIV so much. It was almost a no-brainer to pick up the basics. It was some of the nuances that took me awhile to learn. But thanks to this message board, I've learned just about everything I need to know about this game. If Starfleet Command had a similar website, maybe I'd still be playing that game too.

[Magnum357]

Ok, I must admit, the older SFC games are probably pretty complex to the average Gamer. I really liked SFC1 and SFC2 because of my experience in SFB from years ago so I was definitly excited to hear SFB was finally going to be on the PC for the first time!

Ya, SFC does require you to think a lot more then your average Star Trek game. And without a background in SFB, some Star Trek fans where turned off from it because it does have a different history then Star Trek. But that is one thing SFC3 is trying to do this time. They are trying to make the Interface simpler and easier to figure out then the previous Versions yet keeping it balanced in the Tactical combat department and actually adding new ideas to the game that previous SFC games didn't have.

I'm not saying go out and buy it, just try out the Demo when it comes out or wait a year or so until you can get a copy at a Bargin Bin or something. You might be suprised how good of a game it could be for you.

Besides, have you seen some of the crap some of these other companies are making? At least this game has its roots on a solid combat system compared to those "Wanna be's".

[gregebowman]

Originally posted by Magnum357:

I'm not saying go out and buy it, just try out the Demo when it comes out or wait a year or so until you can get a copy at a Bargin Bin or something. You might be suprised how good of a game it could be for you.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, depending on the hardware requirements, I might try the demo. I couldn't play SFC2 at all because of all the hardware stuff. Nice graphics are a beauty to behold, but I'd rather have good gameplay over graphics. Besides, I can't afford to buy a new computer every year to buy all of these new games with their super-duper graphics requirements. My computer is 4 years old, and I haven't upgraded it since I got it. Last year killed me, what with having a new baby and having to put him in daycare. That's not cheap. I'm still recoverning from that, so I just cross my fingers when a new game comes out that I can play it.

[Captain Kwok]

Here is a dilema I have with the implementation of Captains:

In order to avoid a player abusing the Captains, they must be limited to one per ship. Space Empires does this by looking at the family number of the component. Simple enough. However, since each race has different types of Captains, they each require a different family number for convienience so they are available throughout the game when "Show Latest" is chosen. This however, allows a player to put combinations of different Captains on a ship like Combat Captain + Transport Captain and getting both bonuses.

So...what would be a good solution?
</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Change Captains to be sequential w/ same traits</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Let the player worry about turning "Show Latest" off to pick the desired Captain
</font><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What do you think?

[Phoenix-D]

Kwok, if you put another component between the captains, you can give them the same family number, restrict them to one per ship, and still have them show up under "show latest".

You need one visible component in between each pair of captains though.

Phoenix-D

[Captain Kwok]

Phoenix-D:

That works? I had tried so many variations...but not that one.

[Captain Kwok]

I was just goofing around tonight with a couple of ships.
http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/klingon-vorcha.gif http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/romulan-dderidex.gif http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/ufp-defiant.gif

The Klingon Vor'Cha Class still needs some texture work, but it was fun making it. Also, here is a re-worked and re-sized D'Deridex Warbird (which also needs proper textures!) beside a little tough ship, the USS Defiant!

[ October 13, 2002, 06:52: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Phoenix-D]

That works, I've done it.

EDIT: The part about the filler component being visible is Really Important, BTW. If the player can't see it, SE4 sorts like it doesn't exist.

Phoenix-D

[ October 13, 2002, 06:51: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

[Magnum357]

Whow! Hold on here a second. What is all this "Captian" stuff you are talking about? Is this a component you are thinking about implementing to ships? Just out of curiosity, why are you doing this?

[Captain Kwok]

"A new and exciting feature to be implemented in the TNG Mod are Captains. Captains are basically generic characters that are treated as components and can be placed on ships or bases and give them particular abilities. For example, a Klingon ship might feature a Warrior Captain who might give the ship a 10% combat bonus or a Federation ship might have a Freighter Captain who gives a 10% maintenance reduction but a -10% reduction to defense. Captains cost only a few extra materials, take up no space, and are generally researched through military science. This nifty little feature will certainly add lots of fun to any SE:IV game. Similiar to Captains, there are also infantry troop components that can be placed on larger troop vehicles - check out Units & Vehicles."

That is the description of Captains from the TNG mod site. You don't have to add a Captain on every ship, I just thought it would add a little twist to the usual game.

[Captain Kwok]

http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/romulan-dderidex-khazara.gif

The Romulan Khazara Class Warbird along with the powerful D'Deridex Class Warbird.

[TerranC]

How much is done so far?

[Urendi Maleldil]

Kwok, how do you do textures using images in POVray and get them aligned the right way on the model? That's something I've never really been able to figure out.

[jimbob]

Kwok:

Would it be possible to add admirals as well? Maybe introduce them once the player is really advanced in the military sciences? These would be the same as captains, but with fleet wide effects.

Cheers, and happy thanksgiving*
Jimbob

*for Canadians only

[Suicide Junkie]

Rather than calling them "Captains", and saying that a ship can be without a captain, the components should probably be given a different name.
"Legendary Individual" perhaps, or "Elite Crewperson", depending on how special they are.

You could then include chief engineers (+1 repair, maintenance redux), first officers (smaller Version of captain bonus), and others.

You mentioned that the captains would cost minimal resources... Especially for the frighter captains, the component would be almost a requirement. A freighter captain could easily pay for himself many times over, which is good, but it should be an investment decision with a year or two before you make your money back.

[Magnum357]

I see, very interesting concept. But wouldn't it be more logical to have "Crew Components" that specialize in certain areas? Like a good Senior Staff that is specialized in certain areas. I know a good captian is important, but a good senior staff is also important to a ships operation too.

Also, love you two Romlan ships. The smaller ship looks like a compeletly original design. Is it based on a TNG design you found or completely "Non-canon"? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

With ship designs like that, I can live with Non-canon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Magnum357]

Oh, glad to see the Vorcha using a different color then a "Green" color like the Romulans. I've always been patial towards the Grey color used in the TOS and TMP for Klingons ships. The Green just looks too Romulan for my taste.

[TerranC]

Budget budget budget.

If they had a choice, they would have made it green. But since even colors cost money, they just attached some stuff and made the D-7.

[ October 14, 2002, 01:03: Message edited by: TerranC ]

[Captain Kwok]

Whoa! Lots of Messages.

I was thinking of expanding the selection to more than just Captains, there's lots of different things that can be done with that idea. I also have infantry comps for troops that are like individual soldiers that are on a vehicle in replace of a usual weapon.

I'm always working on the ships and improving their textures (as I learn more about applying them so that they look better). It takes some work and time before you get good results.

The Khazara Class Warbird is a logical design of my own. The D'Deridex Class Warbird is one big *** ship at twice the length of a Feddie Galaxy, so it might make sense that the Romulans might make other ships that are more practical. The Klingon Vor'Cha Class is textured in the same colour as it was in the series. You might be confusing the Negh'Var with it as that ship appeared often in DS9 and featured a green colour.

*Happy Thanksgiving - I had lots of yummy turkey today!*

[ October 14, 2002, 05:55: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Captain Kwok]

Before I depart for bed - a sneak peek at the latest ship under construction at Utopia Planitia:
http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/ufp-sovereign.gif
Hmm...can you guess what ship this will be?

[Magnum357]

Hey Captain, was wondering, how big are you going to make your Defiant in the game? I understand that you are going to make Pulse Phasers something that only the Defiant (and maybe a couple of other types of hulls) can install on its hull, but how big are you going to make this "Tough little ship" for the game? Actually, I can't even get an exact Dimension size for it. I've heard people say its about 270 meters to as small as 100 meters in lenght. I'm not exactly sure what that would translate to KT's in the game. I've read in the DS9 Tech Manual (and I question many concepts in that manual to say that least) it places the Tonnage of the vessel at 355,000 Metric Tons. does that mean you are going to make the Defiant 355 KT? What about the Enterprise-D and E? The Ent-D seems to be much more massive then the E, yet its obvious the E has much more powerful Weapon systems on board. In my SFB mode I had planned, I was thinking in just keeping a relative Tonnage for all races (at least that would be balanced).

Also, what about Quantum Torpedoes? Suicide Junkie and I had a long discussion about Quantums once and we both agreed that the DS9's Tech Manual theories about how they work (among a few weird theories from Trekkies) seem a bit silly. Just wondering what was your theories about this weapon system.

[ October 14, 2002, 08:02: Message edited by: Magnum357 ]

[HeWhoRunsWithScissors]

Random comments:

The Mod looks sweet. (Now If I only knew how to play SE:IV G)
The lego captain is adorable.
Vor'Cha's in DS9 were dark green also.
Love the Khazara.

I look forward to getting beaten again and again by every race around the Alpha Quadrant block.

[Captain Kwok]

The Defiant will be a 180kT ship and will have access to a nice compact mount intended for use with its pulse phasers. Among ship-obsessed Trekkies, the general consensus is that the Defiant is 120m and not 170m as indicated in DS9TM.

The Galaxy will be larger in kT size, but will not have the special Sovereign mount that will help the latter kick butt against the Federation's foes.

Quantum Torpedoes will be an extension of the torpedo research tree for the Federation only. The major difference between the Quantum and Photon torpedo is that one is blue and the other is red http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

The Vor'Chas in DS9 are still actually the blue-cyan colour they are usually, it's just shown really dark so it looks greeny.

[TerranC]

Just to prove CaptainKwok's point:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/vorchaneghvar1.htm

Edit: You mean these ones?

http://www.ditl.org/gptz/GVorKaboom3.jpg

DS9 Ships (http://www.stinsv.com/DSn/ds9shipv.htm)

[ October 14, 2002, 16:00: Message edited by: TerranC ]

[Captain Kwok]

Ha Ha, TerranC, it doesn't actually *prove* anything since none of those Vor'Cha images are from the DS9 run - but somewhere else there was a nice screencap with a Vor'Cha being blown apart by the Cardassian orbital platforms. Vor'Cha Kaboom! (http://www.stinsv.com/DSn/640ship/bopblow.jpg)

[ October 14, 2002, 17:31: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[ZeroAdunn]

Great work kwok.

I would advise making specialized crew components as suggested. Making spartan (small) regular ( medium) and luxury (large) all with different levels of abilities.

You models always look great! Wish I had your skill with textures http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Lighthorse]

Captain Kwok,

At what time do you hope to have your Star Trek Mod completed by?

Lighthorse

[Captain Kwok]

The date of release for the TNG mod really depends on my workload from school and my job. I'm thinking mid-December at the moment because I have a few weeks off then from school and perhaps work - which should allow for some serious tweaking.

Currently I have all sorts of odds and ends, with most normal facilities and components done. Most of the racial stuff is set but needs to be coded in. Then the other files will then have to be matched and some sort of simple AIs pumped out for testing.

Once released, the feedback should lead to a fully vamped Version by March with all the intended features (ie graphics) and extras.

The TNG mod site hit 3000!

[ October 15, 2002, 04:29: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Magnum357]

Personally Captain, I think the Blue/Green looks great and I hope you use it for all you Klingons ships. Makes the Klingons distinguishable from the other races. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

As for the Quantums, well... its a given that Quantums are Blue and Photons are red, but what I mean any differentail in game characteristics? SJ and I had discussed extensively on these weapons. Obviously, they were specifically designed (at least most evidence seems to lean torward this theory) to defeat the borg. We are not sure how Borg keep Fed weapon systems adapting (is it an adapting sheild system or is it some other sort of feild that adapts to Energy weapons?) so why are Quantums so disruptive to borg ships compared to other weapons? The DS9 manual explains that the weapons use Null space or something like that to cause significant damage to a target. It basically said that the weapon system creates a small strain of Multi-dimensional substances and projects it torward the target (why this would be damaging to the target isn't really explained in the TM). Personally, SJ and I thought this was sort of rediculas and thought Quantums where basically Quantum Singularitiy Drivers. We reasoned that since a Quantum Singularity (black hole) can easily be created buy making a mass dense enough to occure, it would make much better sense to fire a "Black Hole" at a Borg ship then this Null Space stuff. Even if a Borg ship could adapt to the damaged being caused, with such gravitaional forces, it would just keep sucking Borg ship parts until it burned itself out. Anyway, we where thinking about having Quantums etheir Sheild Peircing or Quad to sheilds for mechanical effects in the game. But that brings up another question, how are Borg Weapon systems and other race specific systems differ from other races?

Also, I agree with most other Trekkies about the 120 metter length. At least the schematics support it.

[Captain Kwok]

I don't think I'm going to worry all that much about exactly how a quantum torpedo damages its target. Basically, it's a conventional matter/anti-matter booster that triggers a quantum warhead - so that means regular torpedo with more boom factor http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

[Capt. Peter Longstreet]

Howdy. mod looks great. can't wait to play it.
from what i've seen, quantum torpedoes are more accurate, as well as more powerful that Photons. The size is good for the defiant. don't go by the ds9 tech manual. most of the numbers given in there are rediculus.

[ October 16, 2002, 01:05: Message edited by: Capt. Peter Longstreet ]

[Timstone]

To continue about those quantum torps.
This is my vision.

The borg do not have some sort of field around their ships to analyse the weapons their enemies throw at them. They just register the frequency of the weapons.

Every material has a specific frequency a which they start to shake to bits. I only know the Dutch name for this frequency (eigenfrequentie). If you have shields that can adapt to the opposite of that frequency, you don't have to worry about damage of that weapon. Think of sound and anti-sound, they eliminate eachother. Don't think about matter and anit-matter, because those are totaly diffent things. Matter and anti-matter are substances that react with everything that is their opposite and create pure energy. Example: Wood and Anti-Protons*. If those two come into contact with eachother, they produce pure energy. If water and Anti-Protons* come into contact with eachother, they also produce pure energy.

The frequenty of a substance is regulating in which form it represents itself (solid, fluid, gasous). The energy in a certain substance controls the frequenty and therefore in which state it represents itself. So, if you put enough energy in a substance it will eventually become pure energy. With mathematics you can prove there are at least eleven dimensions. And with that, you can asume that the behavior of energy is the same in all of those eleven dimensions. But what if there are more than eleven dimensions?! There the energy might not behave like it behaves in our dimension. It might be very destructive in our dimension. Maybe that effect of the Quantum Torpedo is so very destructive to the Borg. They can't analyse the frequency correctly and counteract them as effecient

*= currently the most common anti-matter and most useable. To contain anti-matter, you need a containmentfield (sounds familliar, doesn't it). The only way of making a containmentfield (with our technology) is to make an ElectroMagnetic field, which has a negative charge. Protons have a positive charge, therefore they stay within the created EM barrier.

[Captain Kwok]

Thanks Dr. Timstone for the explanation.

At this time, I have no special plans for Quantum torpedoes except that they are restricted to Federation use. Perhaps I'll make it possible for other races to capture the tech though.

I've been collecting some sounds, if you know any good sources with good or better quality sci-fi sounds...let me know!

I hope to work on the mod for a few hours tomorrow night - but the next week looks bad after that. If only I got paid and educated while modding, eh?

[Timstone]

Hehe... me doctor. Hmm... doesn't sound too bad, now does it?
Thansk for the compliment, I think.

[Capt. Peter Longstreet]

That would explain why they set the phasers on a rotating frequency to delay the borg from adapting. Captain, try www.stinsv.com (http://www.stinsv.com/) It has lots of sound clips. www.stinsv.com/tng/compa.htm (http://www.stinsv.com/TNg/compa.htm) Here is the TNG section. the effects are toward the bottom. I hope this helps.

Edit:added direct link to the TNG section to make life easier.

[ October 18, 2002, 17:57: Message edited by: Capt. Peter Longstreet ]

[Shadow Master]

There is no point in trying to explain quantum torpedos. The only information to go by is the word quantum. They could use entaglement to teleport matter to another point, they could be singularities, but without more evidence to go by no-one will "know".Its like explaining of light sabers work.(something i'm not proud of)

[TerranC]

Originally posted by Shadow Master:
The only information to go by is the word quantum.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That explains a lot of things:

Quantum = Lots of stuff

So Quantum torpedo has lots of stuff than a photon torpedoe; probably what makes the PT tick.

[Lighthorse]

Captain Kwok,

I'm looking forward to play TNG/mod.

Lighthorse

[Timstone]

Originally posted by TerranC:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Shadow Master:
The only information to go by is the word quantum.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That explains a lot of things:

Quantum = Lots of stuff

So Quantum torpedo has lots of stuff than a photon torpedoe; probably what makes the PT tick.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hahaha... nice. Thanks TerranC.

SM (Wow, that's a cool abreviation): I just tried to explain a theory on the inner workings of a Quantum Torp, it's not necessarily the truth. Just read it and give sensible thoughts. And if you don't fully understand it, just say nothing, not something that could be potentially hostile to the writer. Thank you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Magnum357]

Well, I suppose we will never really know what the heck Quantum Torps really are. I was just bring it up because I hope Kwok doesn't try to introduce weapon systems that are too "God Like". Just seems lately (at least in Voyager) that the show introduced tech systems that seem to do "Majical things" even though in the 24th century, humans are still a pretty young race.

I just hope the Captain doesn't introduce heavely "God Like" weapons to races with out extensive research (and I mean EXTENSIVE!) in a Tech feild.

[Shadow Master]

Sorry if I upset anyone about the quantum torps.
I was simply trying to point out that in a mod based on science fiction, an explanation need not be made or given. The effect is what is important; just as a computer engineer need not know how a specific diode works as long as they know what it does.

[Captain Kwok]

Don't worry!

There will be no uber-weapons a la Voyager. The Borg will be tough - but high costs should help balance them out.

[Timstone]

SM: No harm done. All is well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings!

I've made a minor update to the website. A couple of new pics for the Akira and Defiant and a minor change in re: to colonization.

I've been so busy the Last two weeks I haven't been able to do much at all. Hopefully I'll get a break for a few days to do some much needed work, eh?

That's all for now. Goodnight.

[ZeroAdunn]

Kwok: The new akira looks nice.

As for the rest of the mod: I like what you are doing with colonization.

[Capt. Peter Longstreet]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif The new graphics look great. I've always been fond of the akira and the new graphics are great; a credit to the class. good point about colonization. gas giant research should be expensive...maybe even making the component more expensive than rock/ice or take longer since any ship that enters the atmosphere would have to be reinforced.

[ October 22, 2002, 06:43: Message edited by: Capt. Peter Longstreet ]

[Captain Kwok]

I'm also deciding what planets each race should call home. Despite the fact that all Star Trek races seem to breath oxygen - I though I might change that a bit.

O-Rock
Federation
Klingons
Romulans

H-Rock
Dominion

CO2-Rock
Cardassians
Ferengi

CH4-Rock
Borg

Of course, these are just some ideas. What do you think?

[Timstone]

I'm not much of a trekkie, but I think this looks great. Some variation in the atmosphere is good. Allows for a much greater spread of colonies. Like more than two races in one starsystem. I like it.

[jimbob]

The Dominion rulers (oh, it's been a while, what were they, the immortal ones?) had a planet that was entirely liquid - mind you it was them that were liquid - but perhaps they should colonize ice/liquid planets.

As to the atmosphere types, seems good to me. I like the fact that the borg have their own Category. Methane was it, I knew the borg stunk, but always thought it was because they never bathed.

[Timstone]

Hahaha... hey, no bad stuff about the Borg, they rule! Their queenie is sooo sexy!

[Urendi Maleldil]

Captain, I really like the style of your images.

Wouldn't Borg be "none" atmosphere?

[Timstone]

Nope, they're cyborgs. They need their organic components as much as they need their mechanical parts. The one dies without the other. So, the need breathable air. You've seen them walking in space a couple of times, but that was probabely because they can store air and isolate their bodies from the extreme cold.

Now you all see the Borg can't be stopped?! Not even by those pesky Feddies?! Hah, the Borg will conquer the galaxy! All hail to our sexy queenie!!

[Suicide Junkie]

Borg do have a preferred atmosphere, the one their ships contain.

It happens to have enough oxygen and sufficiently little CO2 to be breathable by humans, but that's probably because they assimilated humanoid species on the ships visiting the Alpha Quadrant.

The natural atmosphere of the original race could have been just about anything, and making it Methane sets them apart http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Captain Kwok]

I gave the Borg methane because of a line in First Contact that stated the atmosphere contained high levels of methane in the borg-covered earth.

[Magnum357]

Hey Captain, thumbs up on the Akira! That is one thing I love about your ship models. They really make your TNG mode unique and sort of give the mod some of its own life too it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Kinda reminds me of the Airbrush drawn pictures the SFB use to do for their game. I can't wait what type of designs you are going to do to fill in spots for the Dominion, Klingons, Romulans, and Cardassians.

I agree with Capt. Peter, Gas Giant races in SE4 have a severe advantage in Storage size. I personally think most races should only colonize the moons of Gas Giants instead (after all, the presures (and Static Electricity) of a Gas Giant is so great for humanoid races, I can't see it being practical to setup colonies their). I somewhat disagree with making some races have different atmospheres then other races. Most Humaniod races we see in Star Trek (with some exceptions like the Borg) breath oxygen. I can see what some people say that it makes star systems have a variety of races in them, but why? In Star Trek, usually only 1 maybe 2 planets in an entire Solar System can effectively support a large colony of millions of people. Most of the other planets would only be used for outPosts or mining operations. This is just my opinion though.

Great too see such improved progress with your mod man.

[Captain Kwok]

I just wanted to say that the Galaxy Class ship has so many frickin' windows. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

That is all.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
I just wanted to say that the Galaxy Class ship has so many frickin' windows. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

That is all.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Awesome update man! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Magnum357]

LOL!!! Can anyone say "Space Hotels"! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I wonder, after the Dominion War, did the Feds keep building the Galaxies or did they completely revert to Soverign class for main crusier/explorer operations?

I know this really can't be answered, but I would have to imagine the Sov's have to be too expensive to build in large numbers. Just bringing this up on whether Kwok should even bother making a Galaxy model.

[ZeroAdunn]

Actually, I think the galaxy was made in limited numbers. They were never the primary ship of the fleet, I don't even think the federation has a primary ship of the fleet. I think it is just a collection of a few ships of various classes.

[Captain Kwok]

How should the Borg assimilate ships?

Should they use the allegiance subverter and captured ships using that method?

OR

Should they use regenerating boarding parties to capture ships?

I'm leaning towards the second option but I don't like the fact that Borg boarding ships could easily be destroyed by a self-destruct device - but at the same time, might be helpful in balancing out the advanced Borg techs...

[Suicide Junkie]

Will the AI even try to board if there is a self destruct device present?
Anyways, the borg can simply use smaller craft to do the actual boarding attempts while the larger cubes provide suppression fire.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Will the AI even try to board if there is a self destruct device present?
Anyways, the borg can simply use smaller craft to do the actual boarding attempts while the larger cubes provide suppression fire.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think it will. I have seen my boarding ships go and board large ships with SDDs on them, and they go boom.

[jimbob]

I think that the SDD should be jetisoned from the game altogether! What a silly and widely abused device.

That said, I know that some people just love 'em (mostly because they abuse them IMHO http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif ). And so here are my very opinionated opinions.

i) I think that the SDD should be much larger in size (say 25kT), so that it will a) be taken out by incoming fire more frequently and b) people will have to really consider whether they want to give up that much space for the privelege to go hari-kari.

ii) I also think that the SDD should appear much later in the tech tree to give some time for races to actually use boarding parties. If you recieve SDD at only level 3 propulsion... my goodness that's atleast 30 turns before anyone has even thought about getting advanced military let alone built them into any ships.

iii) I think that SDD should be grouped with say engines or weapons or something targetable by special weapons to give Groups like the borg a chance to shoot it out.

iv) it would be nice to decrease the size of the defense and boarding parties to bring up their use a little too.

That's it, I feel much better now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings.

I was also thinking of adding an 8th race - who do you guys think would be worthy?

Perhaps the Breen? 8472? Gorn?

[Gandalph]

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
Greetings.

I was also thinking of adding an 8th race - who do you guys think would be worthy?

Perhaps the Breen? 8472? Gorn?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, Yes, and Yes. Oh wait, that's 10. Yes!

[ZeroAdunn]

You should add them as minor empires. Give them some cool bonus facilities and weapons to make them less of a pushover. Like the breens energy disruption weapon.

[Magnum357]

Hey Captain, I vote for option two (Regenerating Boarding parties) and get rid of the SDD. I just don't like the idea where a borg cube lauches its boarding borg, then all of sudden the Fed ship and the Brog ship are blown up because a SDD is onbaord.

I personally would like to see the Gorn or maybe the Tholians. The Breen would be easy, but it seems we know less then what we do with the Gorn and the Tholians. The Tholians at least were talked about a couple times in DS9 and I heard rumors that DS9 was thinking about introducing the Gorn again in DS9 too. The Breen are a fan favorite too, but like I said, we know very little about the race.

[ October 26, 2002, 09:02: Message edited by: Magnum357 ]

[ZeroAdunn]

Actually, we know quite a bit about their race after the whole dominion war, but I digress...

Yes, possibly making the SDD an armor component?

[Pax]

Since Trek-style self-destruct involves creating an intentional Warp Core breach ... making the SDD an engine component, so that engine-destroying weapons can take it out of the picture, seems the smartest thing to do, IMO.

[DavidG]

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
Greetings.

I was also thinking of adding an 8th race - who do you guys think would be worthy?

Perhaps the Breen? 8472? Gorn?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Since I'm mostly an old Trek fan I would prefer to see the Gorn.

[ZeroAdunn]

Pax: Not smartes, most logical. This brings the question: How heavily will the borg use engine destroying weapons if at all. If they use them on all their ships, no problem, but if they don't then most ships would be incapable of being boarder by the borg without defeating the cube.

[Captain Kwok]

The option I was considering was removing the self-destruct ability from the engineering component and having just the stand alone component. I'd give it the damaged first ability so there is a good chance it would be damaged by the time boarding troops were launched against the ship.

[jimbob]

Capt'n Kwok:
that would be great.

[Captain Kwok]

I'm going to go with my option for the boarding/self-destruct issue. It does the most for balance.

I've finished up all the facilities minus some cost issues. I've changed the amount of resources harvested per turn, so most things have to be adjusted to appropriate costs. Aside from that, just some grammar checks and Last minute tweaks and it should be okay. I believe there is about 75 or so facility families, of which 40+ are race-specific ones.

The general trend for population modifiers:

Each 10M up to 1000M = +1%
Each 100M up to 10000M = +1%

For example:</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> 526M = 52% x 2000 = 1040</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> 1000M = 100% x 2000 = 2000</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> 2368M = 113% x 2000 = 2260</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> 9223M = 182% x 2000 = 3640</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">10000M = 190% x 2000 = 3800</font><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally I was going to use some sort of fun ln function, but because its exponential, the modifiers got too big near the end (about 8-9x normal rate). I want to put an emphasis on the use of orbital space yards which I feel is more Star Trek.
That's all for now.

Edit:

Ooh, 666 Posts, I hope nothing evil happens to it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ October 27, 2002, 05:55: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Brando7778]

Hello all,

I'm new to this discussion. I am wondering if the and when the other Trek races will be available for download.

Will there be a Mod for the Breen, Dominion and Cardassian's?

Happy to be here, and look forward to a reply soon.

[Captain Kwok]

You can find out more about the TNG mod from the link in my signature. The website contains most of the answers to any questions you might have.

I'm hoping on having some sort of beta Version out in December, where some playtesting and balancing can take place.

[Captain Kwok]

http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/ufp-galaxy-action.gif
The USS Galaxy on patrol near the Romulan neutral zone.

[QuarianRex]

I just posted my Borg mod.

1035747855.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1035747855.zip)

Take a look, see what you think. It is designed as a player race. An AI using it would probably be crippled since it relies so heavily on analyzing the tech of captured ships.

It does contain a lot of nice new techs (maturation chambers, assimilation nodes, adaptive shielding, new vehicle sizes, the Borg Queen http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ...) and has some new pics (components, etc.) that could be quite a nice addition.

Kwok:

Nice galaxy class. Tis sweet.

[Ryan]

Cool project, Captain Kwok.
Keep up the good work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[jimbob]

Capt'n: Very very nice Galaxy Class you got there!! If all the art is that good, it'll absolutely rock!

[Magnum357]

Ya, that Galaxy sure it cool! I'm wondering if Kwok should just stick with this side veiw stuff. For Star trek ships, it seems to show the ship much better then your classic SE4 ship picture style.

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings.

Here is some information in regards to the systemtypes file that I've been working on:
</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> 21 Standard Systems from 3-10 planets + moons</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> 6 Binary & 6 Trinary Systems with some planets</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> 34 Other types incl. storms, nebula, etc.
</font><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm planning on adding about 100 new planet and star entries with images for the SectTypes file. I'm also hoping to finish up a major update to the TNG modsite sometime in the upcoming week that will include more detailed race descriptions and ship stats. The TNG mod tech list will also recieve its own page as well, replacing the current text file I have now.
http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/ufp-galaxy.gif
Another piece of eye candy for Hallowe'en

[Magnum357]

Hey Captain, the Galaxy is looking fine man! Hey, quick question though, what format are you making those 3D models? Lightwave perhaps?

Oh, and forgot to ask... on your system specifications for Star Systems. I assume that you are just sticking with Warp Points for FTL (Faster then Light) mechanics, but how exactly is the star system map going to be setuped? Will systems have access to all other systems nearby (like if they are right next to each other) or are you just making the map random occurace like what it is in SE4 now? If your confused by my question, just let me know.

[ November 01, 2002, 04:46: Message edited by: Magnum357 ]

[Fyron]

Kwok, are you making new planet pictures, or just incorporating those from the Image Mod?

[Captain Kwok]

The TNG mod models are made in Moray and rendered with POV-ray.

I'm hoping on using some imagemod pictures (not the imagemod file itself) and planets and such, plus a number of my own.

The warp points will be more or less the same since a FTL system wouldn't really work out.

[ZeroAdunn]

Actually, I think the idea was to set up the map with tons of warp points, so that most systems connect to all the nearby systems, not true FTL, but a good simulation.

[Captain Kwok]

ZeroAdunn:

I was just thinking about that. It wouldn't be such bad representation would it? I think I'll do that.

[Magnum357]

Actually, Zero was right in what I meant. Having a predefined map with systems having many warp points connected to each other could be a good way to simulate a "Sem-FTL" system.

At least it would be a lot easier to incorperate into the mode instead of relying on a warp point generator compenent.

As a matter of fact, if my calculations are correct, each star system should have no less then 8 warp points connected to it. Unless of course it is at a map edge. Also, might be a good idea ot make the star system objects in a system a little closer to the center of the Star system to more reflect the vast openess of space and to make ships with low "Warp Capability" or damaged warp engines have to travel far. At lightspeed, it would take 4 years to reach the nearest star system. That might be not possible to mode in, but you could make it where a ship with only a speed of 1 would take several months (maybe even a year to reach a nearby planet in a star system.

[ November 02, 2002, 09:05: Message edited by: Magnum357 ]

[Magnum357]

Also, what could be done with planets in a star system is to have them in the same ring diameter. For example, Mercury/Venus/Earh/Mars are all considered "inner solorsystem planets". You could have all 4 planets within the 1st or second ring of a solar system. each planets could be setuped in on sector, while another planets would be setup in the exact opposite sector on the other side of the star (or whatever). Yes, Venus and earth ar not alawys on the exaxt opposite sides of a solor system, but since the planets are at a constant speed, the time where planets are in short distances from one another is small and most of the time its at a somewhat longer trip. The outter planets are could be setup in a similar way but only in a different ring.

Sort of unorthadox but a possiblility.

[Captain Kwok]

It's virtually that way already. Most colonizable planets are in rings 2-3, with the occassional habitable world in ring 4. Gas Giants in the outer rings might harbour a M-class moon, but that doesn't occur very often.

[ November 03, 2002, 14:50: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[jimbob]

Hi Kwok,

I was looking over the captains in the tech file, and was wondering if the Vulcan captain could decrease the Resource use of the ship (Vulcans are nothing if not efficient) plus maybe a minor reduction in Maintenance cost.

Just my 0.02$Cdn

Edit: Oh, and I don't think the movement bonuses that the captains give will be stackable with other movement bonuses http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif (eg. mov bonus for impulse engines)

jimbob

[ November 06, 2002, 19:19: Message edited by: jimbob ]

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by jimbob:
Hi Kwok,

I was looking over the captains in the tech file, and was wondering if the Vulcan captain could decrease the Resource use of the ship (Vulcans are nothing if not efficient) plus maybe a minor reduction in Maintenance cost.

Just my 0.02$Cdn

Edit: Oh, and I don't think the movement bonuses that the captains give will be stackable with other movement bonuses http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif (eg. mov bonus for impulse engines)

jimbob<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Reducing maintenance is the same thing as reducing the resource cost of a ship - however if you were talking about supplies - has anyone ever tried giving a component a negative value for supplies?

The movement bonus is not actually a movement bonus - it's just a single standard move - I suppose I should clarify that.

[Suicide Junkie]

Reducing maintenance is the same thing as reducing the resource cost of a ship<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There is a maintenance modification ability. It's used on bases to give 'em -50% to maintenance.

Just copy that, and have the vulcans give you -5% to maintenance.

[jimbob]

Kwok, et al

I was actually thinking of the trait for reduced supply usage:

Trait Type := Supply Cost
Value 1 := -25
Value 2 := 0

I just assumed it was under abilities, and could be used as such... but it's a trait type... hmm could we try to use it for a specific vessel, or would it reduce supply cost to all ships owned?! We could test it of course (that said, I suppose that I should do the testing, after all it was my big fat idea).

Of course if someone already knows it won't work, you could save me the trouble http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

Modified Maintenance Cost
Value1 = Percentage of normal maintenance (10% = 110% of normal, -10% = 90% of normal)
Value2 = NOT USED
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just give that ability to the vulcan quartermaster component, and set value1 to -5.

End result: Ship that normally costs 1000 minerals, will normally pay 250 minerals maintenance, and now pays 237.5 (rounded down).

[Captain Kwok]

Umm, SJ:

I think we are aware of how to reduce maintenance cost. What JimBob is referring to is the reducing the amount of supplies used by the ship through a component.

[ November 07, 2002, 05:46: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings and ugh - I'm so friggin' busy!

I had wanted to add more stuff to the website by this weekend - such as more detailed race information (biology, society, etc, etc), starship reports, html the tech list, and provide a checklist of stuff that needs to be done - but it looks like that will be on hold for a bit longer (read: couple weeks) before I get it a change to do it.

I have managed to sneak in a few half-hrs to work on the mod though - so progress continues!

Also, Geoschmo inspired an idea with his reference to armor skipping mines - the TNG mod now introduces Subspace Mines - very nasty buggers with subspace warheads and armor skipping damage!

[Capt. Peter Longstreet]

ooooh! subspace mines. very DS9...espically with the warp points. if only we could make them self replicating... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Captain Kwok]

I wish I could self-replicate some time.

Aside from that nitpick - it will be at least another week or so before I have anything significant to report in re: to the TNG mod.

I can't wait until mid-December - I think I'll finally be able to relax for a bit and put some serious time into the mod. I'm kind of embarrassed right now of how much I seem like Mr.Kodos - but at least I have a web site! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ed Kolis]

I wonder if putting the spaceyard ability on mines would work...

[Captain Kwok]

It is possible to put the spaceyard ability on a mine, but you wouldn't want to do such a thing because the user would be able to build anything with it and Last time I checked - mines didn't build ships.

[Suicide Junkie]

Well, you can always use the "zero organics build rate" trick on the mines http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Captain Kwok]

It would be nice if there was a space yard that could only build units. Perhaps half the size of a normal one.

[ November 16, 2002, 00:47: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[ZeroAdunn]

You could use the organics ability trick.

Simply make it so that mines require no organics to build, then make a spaceyard that only builds minerals and radioactives.

[jimbob]

You could of course limit things even more. You could make all mine parts out of just radioactives or just minerals (heck, they're 9/10ths explosives, how about just radioactives). Then give mines a space yard that only builds in radioactives - now you won't have mines building fighters, sats, or troops either.

Hmm.. never thought of this. Maybe this is the way we could make "fighter only" space yards for the cross-over mod - just have yards that are limited to minerals and organics...

[Suicide Junkie]

Hello? Captain Kwok? ZeroAdunn?
Was the font on my post too small or something?

Well, you can always use the "zero organics build rate" trick on the mines <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> It would be nice if there was a space yard that could only build units<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> You could use the organics ability trick.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

[Captain Kwok]

SJ:

What I was saying was I wish there was "Space Yard Build Units" ability rather than using a workaround.

[TerranC]

The workaround is the only thing available; either that, make the spaceyard rate extremely low so that you won't even try to build a ship on it...

[Captain Kwok]

The problem is that the AI would run into all sorts of difficulty with that!

[ November 17, 2002, 01:39: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[ZeroAdunn]

that is a good point....

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings!

I'm hoping to make a big update to the TNG mod website later on this week. It's been almost a month since it was Last officially updated since I've been so burdened by academic pursuits.

However, some of the things I have been working on for the site include:
</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Catalogue of TNG mod Components and Facilities complete with indicators showing which ones are finished.</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> New Starship section containing images and notes on ships from the mod.</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Detailed Race information included biology, society, and history.
</font><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can see some of the stuff I have been working on in the imageMod thread, such as new planet images.
Also, to avoid confusion, Atrocities' Star Trek mod is a separate, but welcomed entity, from the TNG mod.

That's all for now.

[Captain Kwok]

I will be updating the site sometime in the afternoon on Saturday!

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings!

I have updated the TNG mod site as promised. There are several new sections up included a starship section, more race information (partially completed), and I html-ed the TNG components and facilities list with little indicators showing what items are done.

Let me know if you encounter any problems.

[ November 23, 2002, 20:54: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Captain Kwok]

Ok. I fixed up the race section so that when you click the logo to find out more info, the info box opens at the top of the frame. No more scrolling down.

I'll try to finish off the rest of the race info soon.

[Ed Kolis]

I notice that the Vulcan Captain provides much of the benefit of the Freighter Captain but without the combat penalties... perhaps the Vulcan Captain's ability should be toned down some? Or is he significantly more expensive than the Freighter Captain?

And when you say +/- to Combat perhaps you should say to Attack? Combat implies both Attack and Defense.

What if a player chooses to put NO captains on his ship? Surely there should be some sort of penalty... (This could be beneficial for Ferengi military ships!) Perhaps give all ship hulls a -50 to attack/defense and all captains a +50 plus their regular bonuses/penalties?

You misspelled "nacelle" in "nacelle engine"...

If you're using QNP you really shouldn't use bonus movement points as they're tacked on directly to the ship's movement after you divide by engines per move...

I *think* "Bussard" is spelled with two s's

If Cloaking Device VI-X is an addon to I-V, shouldn't it have a different name?

Isn't the Sovereign class bigger than the Galaxy class?

The description for the Scout Cube says it's a sphere...

mmm new graphics, and the tech lists in html format!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif (I like the O2 ice world with the cratered glaciers!)

Can't wait to see this mod in action! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif (Of course I'll get everything confused with Atrocities' Star Trek mod!)

[Captain Kwok]

I have made some adjustments to Captain attributes for each race. I noticed some of the same problems that were mentioned. If you have ideas for more Captains - let me know!

Also corrected the spelling mistakes. I had fixed them in the data files, but forgot to fix them on the website!

The TNG mod pseudo-QNP works fine. Example for Nacelle Engine X:

Escort> 5 Engines / 1 Engines/move = 5 Std + 5 Bonus = 10 spaces

Dreadnought> 15 Engines / 3 Engines/move = 5 Std + 5 Bonus = 10 spaces

What's the problem? Both ships use approximately the same proportion of size dedicated to engines and move at the same speed as intended.

In regards to Cloaks, levels VI-X just employ a different method of cloaking, but are essentially the same item, so why use another name?

The Galaxy Class is much larger in volume than the Sovereign Class. However, the Sovereign's special weapons mount will give it more firepower.

I have already made 40 planets with many more to be added!

[ November 25, 2002, 05:43: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Timstone]

Go Captain Kwok! Keep up the good work!

[Suicide Junkie]

What's the problem? Both ships use approximately the same proportion of size dedicated to engines and move at the same speed as intended.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Is the dreadnaught only 3x bigger than the escort, or are the dreadnaught engines larger?

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What's the problem? Both ships use approximately the same proportion of size dedicated to engines and move at the same speed as intended.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Is the dreadnaught only 3x bigger than the escort, or are the dreadnaught engines larger?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Neither. The Dreadnought is about 4-5x bigger depending on the race. It's just an approximation!

[Ed Kolis]

I guess what's bothering me about the bonus movement is that what if you design a ship without its full complement of engines? (Will there be limits on engines or can you just fill three quarters of the hull with them and go at insane speeds like in P&N? I think P&N ships are slower for their engine/tonnage ratios to make up for that...)

Anyway, so you've got an Escort with 1 engine and an Escort with 6 engines.

1 engine / 1 eng/move = 1 move + 5 bonus = 6
5 engines / 1 eng/move = 5 moves + 5 bonus = 10

The ship with 1 engine, while devoting only 1/5 the space to engines, is getting over half the movement of the 5-engine ship! Maybe it's just me, but this seems to go contrary to the principle of QNP (Force = Mass * Velocity)... I don't want to tell you how to make your mod and I won't whine and complain if you don't do it this way, but how about giving each engine an increasing number of standard moves (say 3,4,5,6, to borrow from P&N, or 2,3,5,8, using Fibonacci numbers to get a relatively constant ratio between any two classes of engine, as well as a BIG jump between tech levels) and give an Escort 3 engines per move (or 2 in the Fibonacci example) instead of 1?

Another way to look at it is this:

200kT Frigate, 1 eng/move:
With basic engine, no bonus: 5 moves with 50kT of engines = 5% of space per move
With advanced engine, +5 bonus: 10 moves with 50kT of engines = 2.5% of space per move

OK, you say... Well look at this:

1000kT Dreadnought, 5 eng/move:
With basic engine, no bonus: 1 move with 50kT of engines = 5% of space per move
With advanced engine, +5 bonus: 6 moves with 50kT of engines = 0.83% of space per move

Why should more advanced engines be less efficient with larger ships??? I guess you could come up with some technobabble reason why this would be the case ("the lower-energy warp fields are more easily spread across the volume of a large ship due to their low subspace tension ratio") - and I'd buy it! - but on the face of it it just doesn't seem to make sense.

Just my 0.02 tons of mineral ore... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

(Come to think of it, don't most Star Trek ships have only 1-4 engines? At least the Federation ones... can't really tell with some of the alien ships. Maybe you could use the engine mount system that someone (forget who) proposed so that each ship has only a few engines, but scaled appropriately to fit the hull size?)

[Captain Kwok]

Ed:

Let's address some issues.

The engines in the TNG mod are not engines in the traditional SE4 sense, but engine ("warp") coils within a ship's nacelle or structure. This was done for two reasons. The first reason was to eliminate problems with equating ship nacelles (not all ships got 'em) to engines and secondly, to avoid using mounts and additional engine sizes, which are troublesome for the AI and confusing for some players.

The propulsion model is only pseudo-QNP and is intended to roughly equivalate the amount of space engines take up on a given ship. I used movement bonuses instead of standard movement for good reason. It keeps the number of engines constant on each ship, while increasing performance with improving tech levels. For example:

Low Tech Engine Coil:

Bonus: Ship with 5 Level I engines (1 Std + 1 Bonus) has 6 moves.

Standard: Ship with 5 Level I engines (1 Std) has 5 moves.

Improved Tech Engine Coil:

Bonus: Ship with 5 Level II engines (1 Std + 2 Bonus) has 7 moves.

Standard: Ship 5 Level II engines (2 Std) has 10 moves!

You see the problem? Using standard moves increases performance too much! It also limits the variety of speeds available!

Why does more engine coils result in lower engine efficiency? Here is a reasonable explanation: The amount of power needed for increased "warp" speeds is not proportional, but exponential. In order to attain higher velocities, it requires exponentially more power and therefore many more engine coils. Make sense?

I think that sums it up.

[Phoenix-D]

"You see the problem? Using standard moves increases performance too much! It also limits the variety of speeds available!"

You can negate this effect by using larger numbers..

Ship with 4 engines per move, standard engine gives 3 move
1 engine: 0
2 engines: 1
3 engines: 2
4 engines: 3

Level 2 engine, 4 move
1 engine:1
2 engines: 2
3 engines: 3
4 engines: 4

Look at P&N for more examples. Just as an FYI..

Phoenix-D

[Suicide Junkie]

The current / planned Kwok-Coil system does have its own advantages.

For one, damage to the engines will slowly reduce your speed, until they get down to a critical point, whereupon they go offline.
At higher tech, you still get a decent speed while the engines are starting to break up.

Q:
Where is the engine supply use modded in?
It would be nice if the engines used just as many supplies per movement no matter how many coils you have.
(Since we can't have it decrease with more coils)

If you set all ships to require 2 engines per move, and then set all engines to give 2 standard movement points, you could give the WarpCore 1 standard movement point, and a large supply usage.
That way, the core would not provide any speed without having intact engines, and the power used to travel would not decrease as you take damage to the engines!

[Captain Kwok]

I always assumed that it was all or nothing with the "engines per move", I didn't know that it allowed for partial move points!!! I guess I should have played more P&N!

Hmm. I could easily duplicate my current system under this method - let me crunch some numbers and I will post again later.

[TerranC]

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
(Come to think of it, don't most Star Trek ships have only 1-4 engines? At least the Federation ones... can't really tell with some of the alien ships.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Technically, all races have only 2 engines; sublight impulse and warp; what they have are engine ports, nacelles, and maneuvering thrusters.

[Suicide Junkie]

I always assumed that it was all or nothing with the "engines per move"<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You mean like:
5 engines per move
+ 50 engines with 4 movement points
= zero movement
?

[Captain Kwok]

No.

I thought for 5 engines/move, you needed at least 5 engines (+2 Std MovePts) to get 2 movement points. If you had 4, it was zero, but Phoenix tells me it's 1!

[ November 27, 2002, 04:18: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Suicide Junkie]

Ah, the tragic mistake of applying common sense http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Phoenix-D]

"I thought for 5 engines/move, you needed at least 5 engines (+2 Std MovePts) to get 2 movement points. If you had 4, it was zero, but Phoenix tells me it's 1!"

Just from reading the files, this makes sense..except that "engines per move" is mislabeled. It's really THRUST per move.

It works like so:
-add up the "standard movement" given by all the engines
-divide by the ship's "engines per move" value
-round down

Phoenix-D

[Captain Kwok]

Thanks Phoenix!

For now, I'm going to stick with the original TNG propulsion model.

[Captain Kwok]

SJ:

In regards to supplies, it's expected that larger ships will expend more fuel to move than the smaller ones, so I suppose they'll just have to tack on a few anti-matter pods.

[Phoenix-D]

"Thanks Phoenix!

For now, I'm going to stick with the original TNG propulsion model."

No problem. As I said, just an FYI.

Oh, here's another one. If at any time the standard movement given by the engines goes over 255, SE4 does one of two things:
1- Range Check Error
2- Sets the standard move to 0.

This only really comes into play if you've got REALLY big ships in QNP. Ex I have a ship that takes 50 move to get going one space (hey, the thing is 8000kt). It cannot go more than 5 spaces per turn because of the 255 cap.

Phoenix-D

[CombatSquirrel]

Also, I believe that Extra Movement, and Bonus Movement do make your engines spend supply for the additional spaces moved, and that Extra Movement will only add to standard movement if standard movement propels your vessel at least one space per turn already... no free rides.

CombatSquirrel

[CombatSquirrel]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
The current / planned Kwok-Coil system does have its own advantages.

For one, damage to the engines will slowly reduce your speed, until they get down to a critical point, whereupon they go offline.
At higher tech, you still get a decent speed while the engines are starting to break up.

...you could give the WarpCore 1 standard movement point, and a large supply usage.
That way, the core would not provide any speed without having intact engines, and the power used to travel would not decrease as you take damage to the engines!<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh, I like that... clever and Trekkie at the same time.

CombatSquirrel

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings!

I have made a minor update to the site including more race descriptions and some new entries on the tech list. Plus a new spiffy browsing effect.

That's All for now.

[Timstone]

Very nice browsing effect! Thumbs up!

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by Timstone:
Very nice browsing effect! Thumbs up!<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">See Fyron - I told you!

[Fyron]

Different people like different things. I still think it is annoying enough to stop going to the site. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif If you like it that much, maybe you should make 2 Versions of the site: one with the annoying fade effect, and one without. You don't have to duplicate the images, just the html files. So, it wouldn't increase disk space usage by too much.

[Phoenix-D]

FYI Fyron if you're using IE you can turn page transitions off.

Tools-Internet Options-Advanced tab-Browsing-uncheck enable page transitions.

Phoenix-D

[Fyron]

Really. Hmm... that would solve the problem. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Edit:
Woohoo! No more cheesey page transitions! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ December 01, 2002, 19:35: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Captain Kwok]

I compromised. I changed the transition effect to 0.5 seconds instead of 1. I also added some links from race descriptions to each race's respective technologies and ships for convenience.

I'm working on some new events - so some suggestions would be nice!

[Taz-in-Space]

I'm working on some new events - so some suggestions would be nice!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can have an encounter with a "Q" - ANY tech can be given by such an entity! To any race!

An encounter with a rogue device, like that one in the original series, could give you a planet destroyer tech. You can just state that your fleet encountered the rogue and defeated it.

Abandoned outPosts can be found...

Abandoned Mines with mining tech...

[Ryan]

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
I'm working on some new events - so some suggestions would be nice!<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How about some disconnected Borg, derelict alien spacecraft with special technologies, and early warp developement species?

[Captain Kwok]

Events, people, Events!

Events include things like spatial anomalies, fuel leaks, plagues, planets exploding, etc.

Tech cannot be gained through events. That can only be done through ruins!

[Major Tom]

Thinking back to around the 30 years of Star Trek (all combined there were about 30 years of star trek, eh?) here are some ideas... (some of which probably cannot be done within the limitations of SEIV).

#1. Ripping off Voyager... How about an event that transports ships across the galaxy?

#2. From TOS, there was one episode where there were peaceloving omnipotent beings who forced peace between Klingons and Federation (think they were the Organians or something...). How about encountering a race that immediately makes peace between two warring empires.

#3. Return of the Doomsday device. An event that has this ship appear in the Galaxy, kicking even the butt of the Borg (there was a cool book written years ago about another Doomsday Device appearing in the universe).

#4. Renegade friendly vessels ambush other starships (ala Wrath of Khan).

#5. Stable wormholes appearing (ala DS9).

#6. Alternate dimension invasion (ala Starfleet Command I). An evil Federation (or alternate Versions of other empires) appear in order to cause trouble.

#7. A spaceship that did something in the past is mysteriously thrown into the future, resulting in a major rift between two peaceful empires causing instant war (ala "Yesterday's Enterprise").

#8. A defector comes to your side, gives you information, but results in poor relations between two empires.

#9. A rogue commander attacks a peaceful empire due to personal reasons (i.e., "The Wounded"). If this ship is not disabled/destroyed war will erupt.

#10. A conspiracy between two radical factions of two empires conspire to maintain the status quo in lieu of the emergence of peaceful negotiations (i.e., "Star Trek VI"). One or both nations must root out the conspiracy (destroy a base, or a ship) before they make relations sour.

#11. A boobytrap (technological relic) destroyes one of your ships (TNG "Boobytrap)

#12. Civil War (battle between two factions to gain power in one Empire), (TNG "Redemption I", "Redemption II")

[Captain Kwok]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Type := Research - Delete Project
Severity := High
Effect Amount := 1
Message To := Owner
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 := Research is lost!
Message 1 := A scientist has &quot;misplaced&quot; the data for the [%TechName] project.
Picture := ResearchDamaged
Time Till Completion := 0
Num Start Messages := 0 </pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ha! If only he spent more time researching and less time playing Space Empires.

Major Tom:

Some good ideas there.

[Major Tom]

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Type := Research - Delete Project
Severity := High
Effect Amount := 1
Message To := Owner
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 := Research is lost!
Message 1 := A scientist has &quot;misplaced&quot; the data for the [%TechName] project.
Picture := ResearchDamaged
Time Till Completion := 0
Num Start Messages := 0 </pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ha! If only he spent more time researching and less time playing Space Empires.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">When I read this first, I thought it said "Delete Planet", not "Delete Project", which gave me an idea. Maybe certain research/industrial growth can cause actual damage to a planet or a system? This could be a trigger for a specific region of research (i.e., if you choose to research metagenic weapons there is a chance that you will get an event that results in a planet destroyed by a leak at the research plant).

Or, if you have a planet that has maxed out its industry, above and beyond, maybe there is a chance that a global catastrophy occurs (like Star Trek VI has a Klingon moon blowing up because of over mining).

I like events that are a little less random, and more controlled due to the actions of the player. If they are maxing out industry, or researching deatly and 'inhumane/dangerous' weaponry then possibly events could be made to make these risky.

[ December 03, 2002, 13:09: Message edited by: Major Tom ]

[Captain Kwok]

Major Tom:

The best way you can simulate your idea is by giving industries the ability "Change Bad Event Chance - System" with a positive value. This will increase the chances of a bad event happening in the system. You could assigned different values based on the facilities possible risks.

[Atrocities]

Damn, I mean Double Damn! A lot of my event ideas are being used! How dare great minds like yours think simularly to mine! You must stop this now!

[Captain Kwok]

I've made a couple of organizational changes to the website. "Features" used to be the opening page for "Treknology" - which is now just the TNG tech list. I've also added/changed entries on the tech list as I've been editing the components.txt file. "Features" also has a little blurb about mounts and systems & planets have been separated.

Oh yeah, I changed the buttons too.

[Kevin Arisa]

I noticed that both the Borg and the Romulans are green. You could always use a magenta like color to represent the rommies instead. That would work because that seems to be the color of choice for their computer displays anyway. It would reduce any initial confusion. Just a thought. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ December 05, 2002, 17:56: Message edited by: Kevin Arisa ]

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by Kevin Arisa:
I noticed that both the Borg and the Romulans are green. You could always use a magenta like color to represent the rommies instead. That would work because that seems to be the color of choice for their computer displays anyway. It would reduce any initial confusion. Just a thought.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's true. However, the Romulans darker green is quite easily distinguished from the Borg's bright green on the game map - moreso than the website leads on. But thanks for the suggestion!

On another note, I have been messing around with some of the stellar manipulation technologies. I have made the Graviton Beam smaller (50kT) and less expensive but with a modified maintainence cost and increased supply usage. The Transwarp Conduit Generator has been increased in size to 1000kT and supply usage increased, and the price reduced. For most races, this means the Transwarp Conduit Generator will have to be placed on a base, except for the Borg who can still place them on their larger Cubes and Spheres. In general, most of the destructive stellar manipulation technologies are more readily usable, as it seems to be easier to destroy things in Star Trek than create them.

Side note: Why is it that some of the Posts in this thread extend beyond the normal margins???

[capnq]

Any race using a color you have trouble seeing can be changed on your own computer by editing the race's &ltraceName&gt_Main.bmp .

I try to use a color from the race's flag, myself.

[Captain Kwok]

Instead of studying for exams, I came up with a couple of Romulan designs:
http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/romulan-dderidex.gifD'Deridex http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/romulan-khazara.gifKhazara
http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/romulan-tomalak.gifTomalak http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/romulan-kestral.gifKestral

Ignore some of duplicated textures as I was lazy and reused some for the new ships. I'll fix them up later. The Kestral is a conjectural design I came up with as a forerunner to the much larger D'Deridex Warbird. The Tomalak and Khazara (modified from previous Version) represent newer Romulan designs that are the forerunners to the upcoming Valdore in Nemesis - which I'll be making next for the Romulans.

[jimbob]

very nice

[Fyron]

The Romulan empire color should stay dark green. To me, purple doesn't say Romulan (it says Centauri, but that is for a different mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ).

[Fyron]

Polarized Hull Plating I-III (5kT Emissive Armor; 15,20,25 HPs; 3,6,9 Emissive)
Mini Polarized Hull Plating I-III (1kT Emissive Armor; 3,4,5 HPs; 1,2,3 Emissive) <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You do realize that emissive abilities do not stack, right? These small levels of emissive ability are pretty useless.

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Polarized Hull Plating I-III (5kT Emissive Armor; 15,20,25 HPs; 3,6,9 Emissive)
Mini Polarized Hull Plating I-III (1kT Emissive Armor; 3,4,5 HPs; 1,2,3 Emissive) <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You do realize that emissive abilities do not stack, right? These small levels of emissive ability are pretty useless.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not necessarily my friend. These are the earliest level of emissive armors that co-exist with lower weapons that cause between 10-25 damage, so the emissive rates are around 30%.

[ December 06, 2002, 01:53: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Captain Kwok]

Here is an image comparing the sizes of a D'Deridex Warbird with a Khazara Warbird and a Federation Galaxy Class starship.
http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/size-comp.gif
The Galaxy Class ship can fit entirely within the open area of the Romulan D'Deridex Warbird.

[Timstone]

Great pics Kwok! I'm really looking forward to your mod.

[Atrocities]

Kwok, you are a master. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I know your mod will be the mod to have for SEIV.

I can only imagine how much work you have put into this mod. It boggles my mind to think of all the finer things that one must do just to make a simple mod, and here you are, making a masterful mod such as this.

Mod making has a down side. Here it is, 3 am, and look who's all up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif RL just doesn't seem all that important when your on a role doing something you enjoy doing.

Please keep up the great work, your mod is going to be a wonderful thing once your finished. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

God the depth of your mod is incredibly impressive. How you find the time to do it amazes me.

[Captain Kwok]

Thanks Will.

Remember, it has been 6 months since I started the mod with a little break in the middle. When I first started this thing in July, I thought I'd be at Version 2 by now! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Once exams are over next week, I'll actually have some real time (minus work, of course) to put into the mod.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Polarized Hull Plating I-III (5kT Emissive Armor; 15,20,25 HPs; 3,6,9 Emissive)
Mini Polarized Hull Plating I-III (1kT Emissive Armor; 3,4,5 HPs; 1,2,3 Emissive) <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You do realize that emissive abilities do not stack, right? These small levels of emissive ability are pretty useless.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not necessarily my friend. These are the earliest level of emissive armors that co-exist with lower weapons that cause between 10-25 damage, so the emissive rates are around 30%.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not the 1, 2 or 3 emissive levels.

[Captain Kwok]

I guess one on one with other fighters it would be ok, but against a ship it would suck. I think I'll change the mini to 2kT and double it's emissiveness - if such a word exists.

[Ed Kolis]

Remember, too, that fighter Groups' weapons stack if they are identical - so if you have a Mini Laser that does 3 damage and a stack of 10 fighters armed with 1 Mini Laser each, then it will do a net 28 damage to a ship with an emissive rating of 2 - NOT 10 damage as if the shots were separate! (However, if each fighter had a different weapon...)

Also, as of v1.78, the emissive ability doesn't work on units in the first place... do you have foreknowledge of that being fixed??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Captain Kwok]

Units can't use emissive armor? Perhaps that would explain why their isn't a small Version in regular SE:IV. Hmm.

[capnq]

Units can't use emissive armor? Perhaps that would explain why their isn't a small Version in regular SE:IV. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, there is, but Small Emissive Armor is restricted to Fighters and Troops. (In "classic" SE IV, it could be put on Drones, too, except Drones weren't implemented until Gold.)

[Captain Kwok]

Capnq:

Thanks. I checked the regular components.txt file afterwards and saw it there. I knew I remembered it! I'll just double its size.

[ December 08, 2002, 17:28: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Captain Kwok]

Beep Beep

Incoming Transmission...

There are only three days of examinations to go before I get the opportunity to get some serious work done on the TNG mod. Just hang in there!

End Transmission

Kssssshhh

[ December 10, 2002, 17:33: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Urendi Maleldil]

Hwy Kwok, your images are great. Do you think you could put some tutorials on the mod page describing how you made the graphics?

[ December 10, 2002, 21:19: Message edited by: Urendi Maleldil ]

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by Urendi Maleldil:
Hwy Kwok, your images are great. Do you think you could put some tutorials on the mod page describing how you made the graphics?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sure, I'll try to put something together. I'm also making some changes to the current "Starship" section. Look for that update on Saturday.

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings.

I'm just looking for some feedback regarding what to do with the AIs - since I'll be tackling those soon.

Would you prefer the AIs to be as competative as possible forsaking some of the race's attributes, or should I design the AI to play as you would expect them in the Star Trek universe (i.e., Federation peaceful, Klingons Agressive, ship designs not always combat based, etc) - well what do you think?

I'm leaning towards the second option.

Look for an update to the site by Saturday Afternoon. I've made some changes to the starship section that I'll be uploading soon.

[Timstone]

I think the first option is the best. Because if you encounter a race in the second option, the Federation will always respond the same, so will the other races. The playability of the mod will be severly hampered. I say let every computer react like any other AI so far. No "real" Star Trek behaviour.

[Suicide Junkie]

You could create two Versions of the races (Trek and Competitive), or just start a PBW RP game.

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by Timstone:
I think the first option is the best. Because if you encounter a race in the second option, the Federation will always respond the same, so will the other races. The playability of the mod will be severly hampered. I say let every computer react like any other AI so far. No "real" Star Trek behaviour.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Umm - the first option would be even worse for that. They will always be out to get you! However, if you create a nice set of anger files for each race - you can have them be good allies sometimes and if you double cross them, colonize claimed systems - look out!

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
You could create two Versions of the races (Trek and Competitive), or just start a PBW RP game.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Don't think the second option won't be competative...it will be fairly close. It's just a matter of specifying good design files that are called upon in certain states, like defense!

For example:

You have met the Federation. They are friendly and offer a trade treaty and for several years this works out. The Federation is in an exploration or other non-defensive state so they build mostly exploration ships and explore the galaxy, etc. However, you are bad. You attack a couple of their colonies! Their anger file is set to respond poorly to such an event. The Federation goes into a defensive state and begins building warships.

Look out, here comes the Defiant!

It will take lots of time to tweak the files to be at this level, but that is what I'm referring to when I say "character-based".

However, some players might exploit this feature, so that it is less competitive than the first option.

[ December 12, 2002, 21:01: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Kevin Arisa]

I definitly think that the races should behave like who they are supposed to be. I mean, whats the point in having Star Trek races that behave nothing like what they are supposed to? It would be like just changing the images of existing races so that they would look like star trek. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif The second option is really the only option. I want sneaky, backstabbing romulans, agressive but honorable klingons, greeeedy ferengi, etc.
Just my 2 cents. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[jimbob]

I agree, it will be far more "realistic" with definite 'personalities' for each race. The stock races have personalities too, just not as extreme as say the Romulans (nasty back-stabbing spies!) or the Klingons (blood thirsty at it's best, but I'm not sure how the honourable thing will be worked out). The fact that we all know what their personalities are will make them more predicatable, and yes there will be the possibility of taking advantage of some of these predicatabilities, but isn't that what happens in real life anyway? Everyone knows how Russia, the US, China, Japan, etc will respond in any given situation, but that doesn't make it any easier on you when they show up with some tanks!

Just my thoughts on this highly anticipated mod.

[Timstone]

Hmm... Jimbob, that was a very good piece of text. Good examples taken from real live. I appreciate that.
Oki, you got me convinced. But I hope the characters (races) won't be too predictable, that would spoil the whole fun.

[Major Tom]

I think that Star Trek suffers from a lot of 'racial generalization'. The most 'realistic' interpretation of the Star Trek 'races' are in TOS, in my opionion. TNG, DS9, VOY really seemed to polarize the different cultures in Star Trek, making them all being irrationally 2 dimensional with only OCCASIONAL divergents from the path (i.e., when that Starfleet officer tried a military coup in DS9).

In TOS, the Klingons were much more reasonable people then in the 1990's Star Trek universe. They were 'warmongerish', but accepted peace, and were more 'realistic' (i.e., not TOTALLY warmongering) as they appear later.

The Romulans in TOS were a lot like the Klingons in TNG+. They were honourable, and had to rely a lot on discipline and bravery to make up for technological disparity.

I never liked how the later Star Trek series dictated an almost absolute description for each empire. They became almost too predictable in later series.

One voyager episode (one of the few that I have seen) comes to mind. It had to do with accessing a Cardassian medical individual's information by the hologram doctor. Many people said that he was a war criminal, and others defended him. However, of course he WAS a war criminal, primarily because he was a CARDASSIAN! It would have made for a much better episode had this doctor been unfairly 'erased' by an irrate Bajoran crewman for things that he did not do, but it was much easier to make him fit the Cardassian mold.

It was only at the end of DS9 when some of these 'races' broke their mould. Cardassians proved they were honourable, Klingons became rational, Romulans became more open and less Vulcan-like.

In a way, Star Trek 'races' accurately match our PERCEPTION of other cultures (i.e., how we PERCIEVE the USSR, Communist China, and even the United States). However, the reality is, is that none of these perceptions are/were real. Russians were not like the Klingons, Chinese not like the Romulans, and Americans not like the Federation. It is a falacy to believe that cultures are reflective of a singular perception.

TOS had more realistic cultures.

Federation = Generally peaceful, but will engage in occasional Wars of Agression and a history and present blotted with problems.

Klingons = Generally warlike, but will not go to war if it is irrational (i.e., making peace in Star Trek VI, the one TOS episode where Klingons and Federation were controlled by a being and made to fight eachother with swords where they made peace, the Tribble episode where Klingons and Federation can actually sit in the same bar and not KILL eachoter)

Romulans = Honourable, emotional yet intelligent. Due to technology disparities they had to rely on high discipline and sneaky tactics, hence the development of a cloaking device.

So, I see 'real' Star Trek 'races' to be ALL based off of a similar model (like all cultures) but with different 'cliques'. Some are more geared toward one aspect then others, but this did not consume them completely. However, they are not TOTALLY diriven toward that goal (i.e., Klingons only think of war, Ferrengi only of money, Federation only of peace, Cardassians only of cruelty, etc...,).

This mod will be based off of the TNG universe, but I really don't believe that it is necessarily a FAIR universe. TNG is VERY biased toward the Federation being everything to emulate, while all of the other races are extremely corrupt in some aspect. I think in order to get a Star Trek feel to the game, as well as a well balanced game, is to use TOS-like cultures and 'races' over that of TNG/DS9/VOY cultures.

Otherwise, the predictability becomes ovewhelming, knowing that the Federation will almost never get into a friendly posture with the Romulans.

[Kevin Arisa]

What would be really cool is if the Ferengi built a lot of various units and ships and then constantly nagged the other races to trade money (resources) for them. It would be kinda funny if you were running out of troops and you just contact the Ferengi and buy 300 of theirs! I don't know how that would work but if it did it would add some racial flavor to the Ferengi. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Captain Kwok]

Major Tom:

I disagree with almost all of your points.

The Original Series, while groundbreaking for its time, was for the most part crappy aside from a handful of good episodes. The depiction of most alien cultures included a scantily clad women whom Kirk would be enamoured with. I don't think it was until the original movies that Star Trek became a lot better.

Let's discuss about races being portrayed:

Klingons

Klingons in the TOS were hardly unique compared to the variety of Klingons presented in the later series. In TOS, they were all one dimensional, wanting to destroy the Federation, and it was only the intervention by some "superior" race that they made peace. In TNG and later, you have Klingons of all types, honourable warriros like Worf and Martok, nasties like the Duras Family, some in the middle ground. The acts of the Empire were sometimes for peace and sometimes for war depending on the need of the Empire.

Romulans

The Romulans in TOS were decent, but hardly conclusive since we only saw them a few times. In TNG and later, we had Romulans of all kinds - some they wanted to destroy, others who wanted peace, some wanting reunification. Some honourable and some not. In fact, at the end of DS9, it was looking like the Federation and Romulans might have seen the start of better relations.

Cardassians

The Cardassians were portrayed in many different lights as well. Some were plain bad like Dukat, some felt bad about the occupation, others were more honourable, some were not. There were a lot of good Cardassian characters that did not fall into stereotypes. The Voyager episode you referred to you must not watched carefully. It wasn't because he was Cardassian, but because he had experimented with Bajoran subjects during the occupation in his research a la Nazis and Japanese in WWII. Big difference, eh?

I think the later series did a lot better job with avoiding stereotypes and addressing racial issues on many, many occassions. I'm not sure how much of the later episodes you have seen, but it is certainly there!

[DarkHorse]

I am most eagerly anticipating this mod!

Just a quick question, and I hope you don't think I'm picking nits (although I probably am). Didn't the Genesis Device more or less terraform an existing planet (i.e. convert the atmosphere to breathable), rather than create one from asteroids? I wonder if that would be possible to do with SEIV. Apologies if this has been discussed before. It would be neat if that were possible, though. Just bomb a planet into breathability http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
EDIT: of course it would probably have to be ridiculously expensive... but still cool

[ December 14, 2002, 18:44: Message edited by: DarkHorse ]

[Captain Kwok]

Actually, the Genesis device took a nebula and made it into a star system.

[TerranC]

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
Actually, the Genesis device took a nebula and made it into a star system.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No. The genesis device (created by Dr. Caroline Marcus (I think)) creates an atmosphear, Flora and fauna, water, and everything else from a barren planetoid or other harsh conditions.

It is delivered in torpedo form.

The bad thing about the genesis device was that if used on an inhabited planet, it would reform everything, even the people/animals already living on the planet in an instant.

Edit: Grammatical errors... Not enough Sleep this week...

Another edit: Oh! Now I know what Captain Kwok is talking about: yes, the Genesis device can create a star and a planet from a nebula, where the Mutara nebula was turned into the Mutara Sector, complete with sun and the Genesis planet, after it was detonated in the nebula.

[ December 14, 2002, 20:33: Message edited by: TerranC ]

[DarkHorse]

Now I'll have to go watch the movie again. Oh darn.

Anyway, in the game, is it possible to mod a one shot planet breathablizer weapon?

[Fyron]

No, it is not. You could have it destroy and build planets. So it would blow it up, then reform it on the next turn. Simulates the effect. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[DarkHorse]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
No, it is not. You could have it destroy and build planets. So it would blow it up, then reform it on the next turn. Simulates the effect. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You may be right. I tried creating a stellar manip compenent as follows, but it doesn't do anything. I would like to know why exactly it doesn't work, though. Anyone know why?

From Abilities.txt:
Planet - Change Atmosphere
Value1 = Number of turns until atmosphere is changed.
Value2 = (It changes to the atmosphere breathable by the majority of the population.)

I created this component:
Name := Genesis Device
Description := Create breathable atmosphere on planet. Component is destroyed on use.
Pic Num := 40
Tonnage Space Taken := 10
Tonnage Structure := 100
Cost Minerals := 500
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 200
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base
Supply Amount Used := 500
Restrictions := None
General Group := Stellar Manipulation
Family := 1000
Roman Numeral := 0
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Stellar Manipulation
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 2
Ability 1 Type := Planet - Change Atmosphere
Ability 1 Descr := Change to Breathable Atmosphere.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 1
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Component Destroyed On Use
Ability 2 Descr := Component is destroyed after use.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 0
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

EDIT: It doesn't give any errors, but the ship just sits there over the planet, and Stellar Manipulation button remains greyed out. Oh well.

[ December 14, 2002, 20:28: Message edited by: DarkHorse ]

[Captain Kwok]

TerranC:
My mistake - it's intended to work the way you described - but in the movie, it happened when it was detonated on the Reliant in the nebula.

Anyways, I think I will keep the device as is in the mod, as a normal planet from asteroids thing.

I was supposed to update the site this afternoon, but it seems I won't have the time today thanks to my party, but tomorrow for sure!

[Phoenix-D]

The ability in question will only work on a -facility-, not a component.

Phoenix-D

[DarkHorse]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
The ability in question will only work on a -facility-, not a component.

Phoenix-D<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was hoping it would work, as the Abilities.txt file doesn't specifically say it's for facilities only (some of the abilities do). But, apparently, that is the case. Rats.

[DarkHorse]

Okay, I give up. The Subspace Listening Post listed under facilities says it defeats corresponding level of Active Cloak. How did you do this with a facility? I can't get the sensor level to work on a facility, nor can I find any other ability that would do this. What am I missing?

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by DarkHorse:
Okay, I give up. The Subspace Listening Post listed under facilities says it defeats corresponding level of Active Cloak. How did you do this with a facility? I can't get the sensor level to work on a facility, nor can I find any other ability that would do this. What am I missing?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I haven't actually tried out this facility as I thought it would work fine. I swear I remembered someone else mentioning that it would. Hmm...perhaps I'll test it out later.

I'm still working on the website update. It's taking a little bit longer than I thought.

[Captain Kwok]

I've updated the starship section on the website with a new format. Look for more ships in the next couple of weeks!

[ December 18, 2002, 05:47: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[TerranC]

I have a beef with the Fed ships:

Mind you, I'm all for the idea that the Galaxy should be larger than a sovereign (In fact, I endorsed it, I think http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ) but a nebula class bigger than a sovereign?

[Captain Kwok]

Yes Sir!

The Nebula class should even be larger than the 800kT size I used if the Galaxy is 1000kT. It is essentially the Galaxy class with the secondary hull under the saucer, only missing the volume of the dorsal connector, which is almost made up by the volume of the upper pod.

The Sovereign will be fine! It will have a specialized weapons mount to dish out trouble to any baddie.

[ December 18, 2002, 03:50: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Captain Kwok]

A preview of additional information I'll be adding later this week:

Features: Intelligence & Events
* Most of the intelligence operations will focus on ships, sabotage, maps, etc, rather than the game disrupting operations like communications mimic and puppet political parties.
*A slew of new events have been added, including many variations of similar events with different effects.

Treknology:
* I need to update the list on the website to reflect the current data files.

Starships:
* The Sovereign class and Klingon Bird of Prey models are done, but need some textures.

There is also a new book out called Star Trek: Star Charts. It's quite informative with all sorts of information - including things like how ships seem to get places faster than they should! It should also help to re-creating a really good and accurate map for a future project connected to the mod.

[ December 18, 2002, 06:43: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Kevin Arisa]

Will each race be given different shuttle designs? For example, the Federation would have Type 6, Type 9, Delta Flyer, Tac Fighter, Argo(right name?), etc. The rommies could have their scorpion attack craft. It would be a lot of fun to have a variety in the types of shuttles you can have. Certain ones could have special weapon mounts like the Delta Flyer. This is something I would definitly love to see.

[Captain Kwok]

Each race has its own ship sizes, including smaller vehicles like shuttles or fighters. In general, most races will have 2 or 3 small vehicle designs, except the Borg who have none. I'll post more about this issue when I decide on actual designs for each race. At the moment for the Federation, I am considering a shuttle, runabout, and Peregrine class fighter for their small vehicles.