*** Star Trek Mod Discussion *** [Archive] - Page 3

Captain Kwok

December 21st, 2002, 12:04 AM

I updated the Treknology list since I neglected to do that during the Last update. There is about a dozen small changes - denoted by either UPDATED or NEW.

I was working on the mod at work, since I'm not that busy and what do I do? I forget the disk at work with the updated files. Ugh, I'll have to wait until Monday to get it. Nothing super important, but a minor glitch to my weekend plans.

***

I have decided to date the mod to 2379 in the Star Trek universe. This means that it just includes the events in Nemesis, which will figure into the backstory that will go with the mod and possible future scenario. In addition, I have also decided to ignore any technology displayed in Voyager "Endgame".

***

I have also decided on three races I will add to the mod in the future:
 Breen (few organic techs) Tholians (crystalline techs) Species 8472 (organic techs)
I passed on the Gorn, but I would like to make them a very customized neutral. The Breen were picked because of their involvement in the Dominion War. I choose the Tholians because they were mentioned often as a significant empire in galatic affairs and Species 8472 since they're popular with the younger crowd.

Magnum357

December 21st, 2002, 09:50 AM

Hey Captain, I've been away from a while and love what you have done with the website. Your Star Trek ships (even the "non-cannon" ones) are suberb! I just watched Nemisis and to be honest, I rather enjoyed it. I've been hearing a lot of critizism of it and was skeptical going into the movie to watch it, but I felt I spent my money better with this movie then I did with Last ST Movie. Granted, their where a few issues I sort of scratched my head at, but they were fairly minor. The whole movie actually felt more realistic to me then any of the other Generations movies. It didn't beat out my favorite "Wrath of Kahn", but it definitly was not a Star Trek V. For anyone hear that hasn't watched Nemis and are skeptical about going, I still recommend going to the theater and try to treat the movie as something shocking happening to the Enterprise and Federation (kinda like 9-11 in a way). For a short story, it was good in my opinion.

I'm glad to hear that you are not adding the Voyager "Endgame" tech Captain. Where I live, we couldn't get Voyager so I have no clue what the heck happened in the Last 3-4 seasons of the show but from what I have heard it was getting stupied (at least what people have told me).

I also like that you are adding the Breen and Tholians. I have no clue what you are going to do in making the Breen unique, we know so little about them. And even less about the Tholians, but they are both mentioned a lot and even the Tholians were mentioned in Nemisis.

Question though, are you considering implementing this "Theta Radiation" weapon we see in Nemisis? Its pretty deadly stuff, but a lot of these "Weapons of Mass destruction seem pretty deadly. Don't know if this weapon would have any unique qualities to it to be speacial compared to other systems.

Magnum357

December 21st, 2002, 09:57 AM

Oh! One more thing to add Captain. Have you thought of having 2 ship classes for each race that are used early in the game? I remember you saying for example that the Feds would have the Excelcior Class ship early in the mod. I have no problem with that, but how about a "Light Hull" and "Heavy Hull" used early in the game for each rece, then later as your tech progresses, you get your standard ship hulls as you have listed on your website.

For example, you could have the "Miranda" class (i.e. Reliant) as the Feds "Light Hull" and the Excelcior as your "Heavy Hull" early in the game. The Romulans, Klingons and other races could also have "Early Hulls" (23rd Century) for the early game too. If I recal, during the Dominion War, many Miranda's where used in the conflict.

Captain Kwok

December 21st, 2002, 03:27 PM

In the future, I might add more ships of older types (i.e., Miranda, etc) to create that feeling of progression between eras, but for now I'm sticking with the TNG timeline and the ships of that era.

The radiation in Nemesis was Thaeleron, not theta. I'm considering if I should add it as some sort of planet weapon.

I really liked Nemesis too and I feel a lot of the criticism from many Trek fans re: plot holes and such were umm, stupid, because if they listened to the movie, they would realize more than half their holes were not.

Atrocities

December 21st, 2002, 04:16 PM

well umm stupidAre you mocking me? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

On my planet, I would over look such an insult, and not phase shift you into another demention. But we aren't on my planet, are we?

[ December 21, 2002, 14:18: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Captain Kwok

December 21st, 2002, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by Atrocities:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> well umm stupidAre you mocking me? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

On my planet, I would over look such an insult, and not phase shift you into another demention. But we aren't on my planet, are we?<hr /></blockquote>No, I'm not mocking you, just those at the TrekBBS. There are a lot of criticisms of the plot that can easily be explained if they ACTUALLY listened to the dialogue!

Atrocities

December 21st, 2002, 07:41 PM

God I haven't posted at TrekBBS in eons. I don't even think I am still registered there. I had to re-register a couple of times.

I think we might know some of the same people then Kwok. LOL, small world.

Captain Kwok

December 21st, 2002, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by Atrocities:
God I haven't posted at TrekBBS in eons. I don't even think I am still registered there. I had to re-register a couple of times.

I think we might know some of the same people then Kwok. LOL, small world.I have never posted there and I don't know anyone there either, I just kind of lurk from time to time to get a general consensus on different things re: Trek.

Ed Kolis

December 21st, 2002, 08:17 PM

I assume the Tholians are going to get lots of engine destroying weapons and tractor/repulsor beams? Or did they give up that tactic by the time of TNG?

Captain Kwok

December 21st, 2002, 09:17 PM

I haven't put much thought into it, but the Tholians will likely focus on the weapons you described.

A minor update to the starship section, with hull costs now added.

[ December 21, 2002, 19:53: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Shadow Master

December 21st, 2002, 10:24 PM

Will players be able to play as splinter Groups of a larger species? And are latter techs caputerable (this is done by making techs have non-researchable prerequisits while being researchable themselves)

Captain Kwok

December 21st, 2002, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by Shadow Master:
Will players be able to play as splinter Groups of a larger species? And are latter techs caputerable (this is done by making techs have non-researchable prerequisits while being researchable themselves)Players can only play only the major races. Some of the technologies can be captured and when analyzed will lead to new items. An example of this would be Klingon or Romulan cloaking devices that yield specialized sensors to detect them when captured and analyzed.

[ December 21, 2002, 20:32: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Ryan

December 21st, 2002, 11:58 PM

Captain Kwok, do you plan on making scenarios for the Star Trek Modification when it is done or at least released to the public? I have a few scenario ideas. Scenarios are my favorite part of SEIVG. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Here are my ideas.
 Klingons VS. Romulans, a new war with the Klingons and Romulans is formed. Klingon Civil War, have two Klingon races and make them battle each other until peace is formed for 10.0 years. Future Federation VS. Future Klingons, something similar to the future part of an episode I do not remember, but the Enterprise C came into Enterprise D's time.
Will Q be in this modification?
EDIT: I mixed up the episode names, sorry. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ December 22, 2002, 22:14: Message edited by: Ryan ]

Shadow Master

December 22nd, 2002, 03:18 AM

Captain,
You managed to competly avoid the first question.
Can there be 2 Romulan empirers (for example) in the same game? And could they be different in small ways?

Captain Kwok

December 22nd, 2002, 04:31 AM

It's possible in SE:IV to play multiple Versions of the same race, so yes, if you wanted you could play different Groups of Romulans, etc.

Magnum357

December 22nd, 2002, 09:36 PM

Ya, why not! Any Empire (even the Feds) could have a civil war spliting an empire. Heck, it even happened to the Feds in DS9.

Urendi Maleldil

December 23rd, 2002, 01:38 AM

Or you could play the evil Terran Empire. Evil Spock anyone?

DavidG

December 24th, 2002, 01:06 AM

My apololgies if this had already been mentioned ( didn't really want to read all 518 Messages http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif ) but is your release date for a beta still the end of december as you website says?

I'm looking forward to hoping into a Romulan Warbird and kicking that annoying bald guy's butt. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ December 23, 2002, 23:20: Message edited by: DavidG ]

jimbob

December 24th, 2002, 03:28 AM

Capt'n:

I was just looking around your web site (and wow! great looking stuff on the site! you even changed components like the bridge and shuttlebays) and found this description for one of the components:

Neutrino Mine Warhead I-III (Mine; Shield Damaging)

It is my understanding that when mines do damage to ships, the ships do not have their shields up. And so, it would seem that the Neutrino warhead would not actually cause any damage/interferance to the target vessel -> unless it is to mean that the Neutrino warheads damage shield generators... is it possible to target just generators?

Anyway, I'm not trying to nit-pik, just wanted to help catch any little bumps on the road.

Captain Kwok

December 24th, 2002, 04:49 AM

Originally posted by jimbob:
Neutrino Mine Warhead I-III (Mine; Shield Damaging)

It is my understanding that when mines do damage to ships, the ships do not have their shields up. And so, it would seem that the Neutrino warhead would not actually cause any damage/interferance to the target vessel -> unless it is to mean that the Neutrino warheads damage shield generators... is it possible to target just generators?

Anyway, I'm not trying to nit-pik, just wanted to help catch any little bumps on the road.Yes, the Neutrino mines target the shield generators only. This allows for easier boarding for nearby Ferengi ships.

DavidG:

I'm hoping for a beta release soon, but it will likely be limited to testers only first. Once the major kinks are worked out, then a public beta sometime in January.

[ December 24, 2002, 02:51: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

DarkHorse

December 24th, 2002, 05:54 AM

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:

DavidG:

I'm hoping for a beta release soon, but it will likely be limited to testers only first. Once the major kinks are worked out, then a public beta sometime in January.Gaah! How do I volunteer to be an official tester!!?

Captain Kwok

December 26th, 2002, 10:04 PM

Greetings!

Here is an indication of the work that remains to be done with the data files. This doesn't include AI work.

 Components.txt - 85% Facility.txt - 95% TechArea.txt - 50% VehicleSizes.txt - 60% CompEnhancement.txt - 10% Cultures.txt - 50% RacialTraits.txt - 50% Events.txt - 80% Happiness.txt - 50% IntelProjects.txt - 30% QuadrantTypes.txt - 25% StellarAbilityTypes.txt - 90% SystemTypes.txt - 85% SectTypes.txt - 75%
I think I'll be posting a TNG Quadrant Mod sometime next week. I hazard to guess I'll be beta testing in two weeks at the earliest.
Edit: Just in case you didn't know, the % represent % complete, not incomplete!

[ December 27, 2002, 05:08: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Timstone

December 27th, 2002, 01:29 AM

Pfew... you almost gave me a heartattack. Thank you for mentioning that Capitano. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Magnum357

December 27th, 2002, 09:46 AM

Hey Captain, when you say Beta Testing, does that include multiplayer? I wouldn't mind helping with Beta Testing, but I only like to play PBEM. I've never tried TCP/IP and other methods.

Just wanted to also say that this mode is looking good!

Captain Kwok

December 27th, 2002, 03:22 PM

I don't think I'll be doing a PBW beta test, because it doesn't help to test the AI and is a slow method of playing lots of turns. I'm just looking for some people who can play a lot of turns as each race and help with bugs and balance issues.

Captain Kwok

December 28th, 2002, 03:14 AM

If you are interested in becoming a beta tester, send me an e-mail and I'll add you to the list.

It will be a couple of weeks before I'll have anything ready. I want to keep it as a private beta because I don't want it getting messed up with later public releases. The beta will be rough in some areas and I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression of the mod.

Aside from that, is there any feedback re: ships or technologies? Are most generally happy with those items?

This I might regret. I posted a little booster for SE:IV and the TNG mod at the TrekBBS gaming forum. I'm hoping I don't bring out the canon nuts, but just more people interested in Space Empires and Star Trek.

Kevin Arisa

December 28th, 2002, 07:01 PM

Everything is looking great, but the borg are missing their Gravimetric Torpedoes. They should be a Quad to Shields or a Bypass Shields. And I'm not sure but dont the Cardies use some sort of plasma torpedo? Besides that everything is really good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

About Beta Testing: What exactly would be expected to be done? Just play all of the races and keep an eye out for bugs or the accidental cheese weapon? Or is there some sort of specific checklist that will be given to the testers?

TerranC

December 28th, 2002, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by Kevin Arisa:
Everything is looking great, but the borg are missing their Gravimetric Torpedoes. They should be a Quad to Shields or a Bypass Shields. And I'm not sure but dont the Cardies use some sort of plasma torpedo?There's a bug about that 4x to shields that hasn't been fixed to the general public yet.

And I thought plasma torpedoes were Romulan. As far as I know, the Cardassians didn't use torpedoes.

Captain Kwok

December 29th, 2002, 12:32 AM

Here is a piece of eye candy:
http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/action-sovereign.gif

Beta testing is just playing games and reporting any bugs or gameplay issues to me, so I can fix 'em.

I think I'll exchange one of the current Borg weapons for Gravimetric torpedoes, since there are two similiar beam weapons at the moment.

Plasma torpedoes were used by Romulan ships in a couple of TOS episodes. They are also used by Romulan ships in the TNG mod. Cardassian ships most likely use photon torpedoes, but I'm sort of guessing on that.

[ December 28, 2002, 23:03: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Lighthorse

December 30th, 2002, 04:42 AM

Captain Kwok,

As for.... "Beta testing is just playing games and reporting any bugs or gameplay issues to me, so I can fix 'em." I offer my services to you. I have been beta testing B5mod for Val and Pathfinder.

Lighthorse,

DarkHorse

December 30th, 2002, 05:07 AM

Originally posted by Lighthorse:

Lighthorse,Hmm, Lighthorse... my evil twin?

ZeroAdunn

December 30th, 2002, 06:48 AM

Actually, in an episode of DS9 they encounter a heavily sheilded cardassian array of orbital weapons platforms, that, iirc was firing plasma torpedoes.

Captain Kwok

December 30th, 2002, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by ZeroAdunn:
Actually, in an episode of DS9 they encounter a heavily sheilded cardassian array of orbital weapons platforms, that, iirc was firing plasma torpedoes.This is true. At the moment though, I'll think I'll keep the Romulans as sole Users of the plasma torpedo - although I think I might make plasma weapons capturable.

Magnum357

December 31st, 2002, 03:21 AM

Hey Captain, I think ZeroAdunn is right on the Cardassians. I swear that I heard on a DS9 episode that their Defense Plateforms used Plasma Torpedos. But that was the only time I have ever heard the Cardassians using Plasma Torpedoes. No clue if they ever used them on ships or not. One of the Voyager episodes (I think it was called "Dreadnaught") had the Cardassian ship use Quantums, but you know my opinion on Voyager episodes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I would prefer to stay away from using references from them as much as possible. Actually, I don't mind your idea Captain for Plasma's. I think it would be a good idea to just keep the Romulans using Plasma and have the tech easily developed by other races if captured. All ships use Plasma streams anyway to power their ship (even the Enterprise). I think if a Race captures it from the Romulans, they could easily modifiy it to their vessels.

Question though about Romulan Plasma's. Are you going to make them Direct Fire weapons, or Seeking? Also, I would advice making Plasma's distinctive compared to say Photon Torpedos. For example, what makes the Plasma over useful over the Photon and what would put the Plasma at a disadvantage to the Photon?

Captain Kwok

December 31st, 2002, 03:53 AM

Magnum:

Plasma torpedoes are quite different from photon torpedoes. Both are direct fire, but a plasma torpedo takes longer to reload and takes up more space, but does more damage although its strength decreases with range.

Captain Kwok

December 31st, 2002, 06:23 AM

More Eye Candy:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1041308184.bmp

Here are 40 original O2 planets I've rendered today for the mod. There's 31 rock and 9 ice, and I'll be making another 20 or so tomorrow, plus a whole lot of other atmosphere planets. I've been focusing on finishing the system aspects of the mod, and I'll be releasing those soon as a mini mod.

Sorry dialup modem'ers for posting a 152Kb file.

ZeroAdunn

December 31st, 2002, 09:05 AM

Your a madman kwok!!

Seriously, you are getting mad work done. Can't wait to see this mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Fyron

December 31st, 2002, 09:08 AM

Make some arid O2 worlds too. And make a few Ocean worlds. Make some with mostly ocean, and then some archipelagos. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Maybe some forest or jungle covered worlds. Maybe some more mountainous ones.

Captain Kwok

December 31st, 2002, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Make some arid O2 worlds too. And make a few Ocean worlds. Make some with mostly ocean, and then some archipelagos. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Maybe some forest or jungle covered worlds. Maybe some more mountainous ones.That is exactly what I am doing right now!

Fyron

December 31st, 2002, 09:21 AM

Good! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Magnum357

December 31st, 2002, 10:44 AM

Excellent!

Hey Captian, I like the idea you have with Plasma's.

One Last question though, do you (or anybody) have any idea what the Cardassians use as their main Beam weapon? I have heard on a few TNG episodes that they use Phasers, then I have heard a few DS9 episodes use Disruptors, then I had a Trekkie tell me once that they use "Phas-disruptors" or what is "Wave-disrusptors". Anyway, I would be happy if they just had Phasers, but which way are you going to do them?

Captain Kwok

December 31st, 2002, 10:55 AM

Magnum:

I've heard of two weapons that the Cardassians use on their warships aside from the few mentions of phasers:

Compressor Beam
Spiral-Wave Disruptor

I decided to go with both of them, helping to promote more variety in the mod. I'm sticking with the Federation as sole Users of phaser weapons.

You may also want to check out the website under Treknology. Many of the weapons and other racial items are listed specifically under each race.

[ December 31, 2002, 14:45: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Ed Kolis

January 1st, 2003, 01:38 AM

Plasma torps are direct fire? That's funny, because in all the other Star Trek games I've played, they have been *very* *slow* seekers (slow for a seeker - can still outrun most ships)... Begin2 and Starfleet Command are the only ones I can think of at the moment...

jimbob

January 1st, 2003, 01:59 AM

Yeah, that was my impression too... just a huge ball of plasma that slowly (relatively speaking of course) chases down the enemy ship... with a fairly high rate of energy/damage decay with range. I would think that the biggest advantage to such a weapon would be the ability of a big ball of plasma to ignor almost all point defense weapons (infact pd laser would just heat it up more!)

Perhaps, if you went with the plasma weapon as a seeker you could crank up it's pd absorbtion to the moon - and it would be a fairly unique weapon because of this.

Just my $.02

minipol

January 1st, 2003, 03:40 AM

wow, this mod starts looking better every day! coolness!! great work captain

Captain Kwok

January 1st, 2003, 03:51 AM

Magnum357

January 1st, 2003, 09:57 AM

Hey Captain, one Last question I forgot to even mention. It maybe on your website, but what about Neutrals? Are they going to be in the game? And if so, will they have their own weapon systems and tech? Would they just stick with " General Components & Facilities" section on the site?

jimbob

January 2nd, 2003, 01:16 AM

Originally posted by jimbob:
...Perhaps, if you went with the plasma weapon as a seeker you could crank up it's pd absorbtion to the moon - and it would be a fairly unique weapon because of this... Captn's Reply:
If you make it a seeker that isn't effected by point defense, then it becomes a torpedo that hits close to 100% of the time unless you can outrun it - but its rather strong and can be quite unbalancing if unchecked. You'd have to make it so that it can be knocked out somehow.Sorry about that, I wasn't specific enough. You could crank up the "Weapon Seeker Dmg Res := " field to a resonably high value -> perhaps 2.5 to 3.0 times higher than most missiles. In this way it will still be a seeker (with less than 100% accuracy) but will have a higher damage tolerance. In fact it will likely sopp up much of the PD fire to allow other seekers to penetrate! I'd imagine quadrupling the damage resistance would be excessive/unbalancing however.

Kevin Arisa

January 2nd, 2003, 09:21 AM

What is the tech tree set up like? I hope that it is straightforward. I have played some mods that are totally confusing when it comes to research. Just by looking at the research list you would never know what to do to get a phaser or hyperdrive or whatever. It should be as simple as:
Federation Tech\Federation Weapons\Phasers I-X
Propulsion\Warp Drive\Warp Nacelle I-V
or something like that.
Frustrating research = frustrating game.

Perhaps later you could release a tech tree so that we can have a glimpse into your ideas for the research process. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Fyron

January 2nd, 2003, 09:22 AM

Look in the text files to see what gives what. Or, play with the ability to view the entire tech tree (in game mechanics tab at game startup).

Captain Kwok

January 2nd, 2003, 07:19 PM

Re: Tech Tree

The tech tree is fairly straightforward. There are some crossover requirements for particular items that might be a little more complicated, but nothing too difficult. One of the things that I will be making is a playing guide for each race to make things a little bit easier.

Re: Website

Is there anything you'd like to see added to the website? Let me know!

[ January 02, 2003, 17:38: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Captain Kwok

January 2nd, 2003, 09:41 PM

I don't think I answered the tech tree question very well, so here is a better example:

Examples

As a Federation Player:

*Energy Stream Weapons I
> Lasers > Lasers I-III (All)

*Energy Stream Weapons II
> Phasers > Phasers I-X (Federation Only)

*Energy Pulse Weapons I
> Disruptors I-X (All)
> Phase Cannons [if Lasers I+] (All)

*Energy Pulse Weapons II
> Pulse Phasers I-V [if Phasers I+] (Federation Only)

*Torpedo Weapons I-V
...Anti-Matter Torpedoes I-V (All)

*Torpedo Weapons VI-X
...Photon Torpedoes I-V (All)

*Torpedo Weapons XI-V
...Quantum Torpedoes I-V (Federation Only)

*Vehicle Weapons I
...Mini Laser I [if laser I+]
...Mini Phaser I&II [if phaser I&III] (Federation Only)
...Mini Anti-Matter Torpedo [if Anti-Matter Torpedo I+]
...Mini Photon Torpedo [if Photon Torpedo I+]

As a Dominion Player:

*Energy Stream Weapons I
> Lasers > Lasers I-III (All)

*Energy Stream Weapons II
> Polaron Beam > Polaron Beam I-III (Dominion Only)

*High Energy Discharge Weapons I
> Polaron Cannon I-III [if Polaron Beam I+] (Dominion Only)

*Physics I
> Bunch o' stuff

*Physics II
> Phased Energy Weapons > Phased-Polaron Beam I-III (Dominion Only)

*Torpedo Weapons I-V
...Anti-Matter Torpedoes I-V (All)

*Torpedo Weapons VI-X
...Photon Torpedoes I-V (All)
...Positron Torpedoes I-V (Dominion Only)

Notes: Each race has different options open for each of the top level weapon technologies. Notice the differences between the Federation and Dominion weapons for the same tech areas. I have omitted other racial techs for clarity, but each one follows a similiar pattern.

[ January 02, 2003, 19:43: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Kevin Arisa

January 3rd, 2003, 05:32 AM

Concerning torpedoes, will there be an advantage to using different types of torpedoes? For example:
Antimatter Torpedo - Small and cheap. Not very strong. Fire rate 1
Photon Torpedo - Moderate balance between size, cost, and power. Fire rate 2
Quantum Torpedo - Strong but larger and more expensive. Fire rate 3

That way we can see Akiras and Galaxies that still use photons while Defiants and Sovereigns stick with the quantums. We saw in First Contact and Nemisis that even though there are quantums, photons are still in heavy use. Just curious to see how this will be done in the mod.

Captain Kwok

January 3rd, 2003, 07:29 AM

Originally posted by Kevin Arisa:
Concerning torpedoes, will there be an advantage to using different types of torpedoes? For example:
Antimatter Torpedo - Small and cheap. Not very strong. Fire rate 1
Photon Torpedo - Moderate balance between size, cost, and power. Fire rate 2
Quantum Torpedo - Strong but larger and more expensive. Fire rate 3
The torpedoes you've mentioned above are all from the same weapon family. They all share a fire rate of 2, but differ in power and range. While Anti-Matter torpedoes are considered early tech and wouldn't stick around for too long, Photon Torpedoes should remain popular to their low cost and decent performance, in fact, they are the highest level of torpedo for most races. The Federation, Romulans, and Dominion have additional torpedo options, but due to some of their limitations or costs, I would think that Photons would remain a viable option for their ships as well.

Magnum357

January 3rd, 2003, 11:08 AM

Wait a minute! Isn't a Photon Torpedo just that? I thought a Photon Torpedo IS an Anti-matter Torpedo? I thought the word "Photon" was just an acronym for "short burst weapon". Am I wrong here?

I don't mind the idea of all races using this "Antimatter torpedo" weapon, but I just thought Photons are the same thing only named differently (slang talk you might say for starfleet crews).

Captain Kwok

January 3rd, 2003, 11:32 AM

A Photon torpedo is just a souped up Anti-Matter torpedo...

TerranC

January 3rd, 2003, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by Magnum357:
"Photon" was just an acronym for "short burst weapon". Am I wrong here?A Photon is a "particle" of light. This has many trekkies confused, as photons have nothing to do with the destructive power of the Photon Torpedo...

Ed Kolis

January 6th, 2003, 04:51 AM

An antimatter annihilation reaction produces a bunch of photons, maybe that's where it comes from http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Lib3r8er

January 6th, 2003, 08:42 AM

just wanted to say this mod is looking great

also in star trek armada the klingons also use phasers so may be u should consider a least making the phaser tech capturable

[ January 06, 2003, 06:44: Message edited by: Lib3r8er ]

AEther

January 6th, 2003, 10:02 PM

i agree completely, not only the federation have phasers they are the ones only with PULSE PHASERS not phasers.

Captain Kwok

January 7th, 2003, 07:35 PM

Greetings.

It has been a couple of days since I Last posted, here is the latest info:

Most of the data files are done, with a few minor exceptions I hope to address during this week. School has also resumed this week, so that will slow things again. However, I'm hoping to have a beta Version to some testers very soon, so that's good. I've also worked on putting together some temp ship sets until I get the original ones more complete.

One of the files I've worked on was happiness.txt, I've added several more happiness types to better correspond with the different races:

Neutral: ?
Capitalist: Ferengi
Collective: Borg
Expansionist: Cardassian
Peaceful: Federation
Religious: [N]
Warrior: Klingon, Romulan, [N]
Xenophobic: Dominion, [N]

[N] denotes use by a neutral race.

I've also modified cultures.txt to a similiar degree as above.

Due to the method that I've arranged the vehiclesize.txt file (custom hulls for most of a race's ship sizes), I just realized I will have to do the same for the neutrals (i.e., making a unique neutral technology trait), since I don't want neutral default sizes appearing in the ship lists of the major races. I'm also thinking of reducing the sizes of the neutral ships, since you don't expect the Bajorans to be cruising around in 1000kT ships. I'll probably top the big ships at 500-600kT in size.

That's all for now.

Captain Kwok

January 8th, 2003, 04:29 AM

Greetings Again!

I've updated the website with a new feature - Mod Status - which allows visitors to check what's going on. I've also added temporary images for some Federation and Dominion ships, I'll be adding temporary images for other races sometime soon.

As usual, any comments are welcomed.

Kevin Arisa

January 8th, 2003, 07:37 PM

I noticed that you changed the nebula into the one with the sensor pod. Why did you do that? It is hardly battle worthy without it's battle pod. Are you planning on making the nebula class upgradeable? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

TerranC

January 8th, 2003, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by Kevin Arisa:
I noticed that you changed the nebula into the one with the sensor pod. Why did you do that? It is hardly battle worthy without it's battle pod. Are you planning on making the nebula class upgradeable? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif ... The nebula class is most certainly battle worthy even without it's battle pod. And you can make the nebula class upgradable yourself; just create two variants in a TNG mod game.

Personaly, I think the Phoenix (Sensors pod Version) looks a lot better than the Sutherland (Weapons pod Version).

Captain Kwok

January 8th, 2003, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by TerranC:
Personaly, I think the Phoenix (Sensors pod Version) looks a lot better than the Sutherland (Weapons pod Version).That is exactly why I changed it. I didn't like the way the upper pod was turning out with the Sutherland variant.

Edit: Besides, who says the Phoenix variant's upper pod can't have a couple of torpedo tubes?

[ January 08, 2003, 21:35: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Fyron

January 9th, 2003, 01:56 AM

You can not upgrade a ship from one vehicle type to another.

TerranC

January 9th, 2003, 03:41 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
You can not upgrade a ship from one vehicle type to another.I don't think that's what he was asking, Fyron.

Fyron

January 9th, 2003, 03:44 AM

That is what was being implied. Have 2 different types of Nebula class ships, and upgrade from one to the other. It won't work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Capt. Peter Longstreet

January 11th, 2003, 03:25 AM

Just an idea: maybe we could use both Versions of the Nebula. the weapons pod one would be a combat ship and the sensor pod would be a science ship for stellar manipulation and things like that. there could be a class-specific weapon mount like the plans for the defiant to make the use of the 2 diferent ships beneficial. it would probably take a little time to change this, so maybe for a future release once the mod is done. Or maybe give the sensor pod one a natural ability to scan for cloaked ships. not a strong one, just like a lvl 2 cloak. or give it some sort of sensor boost without needing to add the component for it. That way the sensor pod wouldn't be just for show. Just thinking out loud.

Kevin Arisa

January 11th, 2003, 07:57 PM

Oh yes. I like that idea a lot. That would definitly make both sides happy. The combat nebula and the sensor nebula. I think I would actually use both if they had different bonuses. That is a great idea! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Lib3r8er

January 11th, 2003, 09:38 PM

Two different Nebula classes sounds good to me

TerranC

January 12th, 2003, 04:24 AM

... If you create 2 different nebula classes, you can't change one to the other, and vise versa, in SE4. If you want a sensors pod nebula and a weapons pod nebula and want to retrofit between them, you'll have to settle for 1 nebula class. Which means you are stuck with one image for the nebula class.

And if you do give bonuses to the hull itself, then technically, it's the nebula itself that has the ability, not the pod.

Frankly, I don't see what the big deal is with having 1 image for the Nebula...

[ January 12, 2003, 02:24: Message edited by: TerranC ]

Captain Kwok

January 12th, 2003, 06:18 AM

There'll be a single Nebula hull size and image - it'll be up to player to create the different designs they want.

I just have to correct the mistakes in the data files and make sure the components and facilities match the tech areas - then I should be able to load the mod for the first time. After that, some minor adjustments and then onto AIs and then beta test!

Magnum357

January 13th, 2003, 10:59 AM

Cool, sounds good Captain. Good luck Beta Testers!

Capt. Peter Longstreet

January 15th, 2003, 06:17 AM

Both Versions look good. i dont really have a favorite, but the sensor pod one is probably better to use as it goes along with starfleet's scientific mission. remember, prior to the defiant project and more recent designs, federation ships are built primarily for discovery with weapons as secondary to only be used in defense of the federation. look at the galaxy. its huge, but hardly armed to the teeth. a combat oriented race would have used all the lab space and civilian quarters to add much more weaponry, but the federation isn't out to pick a fight. they are just ready if someone picks one with them. the model looks great, by the way.

Captain Kwok

January 16th, 2003, 07:01 AM

Greetings.

I continue to work on the mod when I get the chance but unfortunately that is not as often as I would like. I've been putting together some temp graphics and fixing all the little mistakes I keep coming across in the data files. Thanks for your patience and I hope that I have something more to show sooner than later. Also, I'm looking on suggestions on improving the website to make it more informative and inviting, which you can post here or e-mail to me.

Oh wait, one Last thing - I've gotten a few e-mails asking what a beta tester would do. Basically, just play the game, noting any imbalances, difficulties, strange occurances, and other items that can be improved.

Thanks again!

Lib3r8er

January 18th, 2003, 05:42 PM

ive got a question captain
how will u be deciding who the beta testers for this mod are?

Captain Kwok

January 18th, 2003, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by Lib3r8er:
ive got a question captain
how will u be deciding who the beta testers for this mod are?Umm, easy, anyone who e-mails me and has SE:IV Gold.

[ January 18, 2003, 16:25: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Lib3r8er

January 19th, 2003, 08:40 AM

thanx im doing that

also are u going to be giving the Cardassians the huet class or not?

Lighthorse

January 20th, 2003, 04:37 AM

Hey Cap K,

How must longer before we're be receiving your beta?

LIghthorse

Captain Kwok

January 20th, 2003, 06:12 AM

Originally posted by Lighthorse:
How must longer before we're be receiving your beta?I'm working on it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

The biggest problem is getting enough time at once to seriously add the remaining entries and fix all the little mistakes so the mod can actually be loaded!

[ January 20, 2003, 04:45: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Atrocities

January 20th, 2003, 01:40 PM

The fun part of modding for me has been the development and design aspect of the mod. Tweaking it, and adding in the little extras over time. However, a lot of ground work and infastructure of any mod will go into the pre-alph and beta stages. The real interesting work, and the tedous parts of it all, comes when you start getting bug reports and have to nail those bugers down. Although yo get a sence of accomplishment each and everytime you kill a bug, the overall process can get a little disheartening at first. Eventually I found it to be the second best part of the modding adventure. The first has always been seeing and hearing that people enjoy your mod, and that your efforts are adding to the value of this fine game.

Take all the time you need Kwok, its a lot more fun setting things up then it is hunting things down. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Lighthorse

January 21st, 2003, 07:39 AM

Captain Kwok,

I'm here waiting for you, take all the time you need.

Lighthorse

Captain Kwok

January 23rd, 2003, 12:45 AM

Greetings!

This is just a brief announcement that the TNG mod no longer exists!

...Atrocities and I are going to combine our efforts to merging our mods into a single 'Star Trek' mod. I'll post more details once Atrocities and I have some time to discuss them...

Ryan

January 23rd, 2003, 01:01 AM

I do not like the Atrocities TNG mod. I do not hate it alot but I just do not seem to like it alot. I hope the new TNG mod is to my liking. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ January 22, 2003, 23:03: Message edited by: Ryan ]

jimbob

January 23rd, 2003, 01:32 AM

Yoink! Just like that, TNG gone? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Yeah, I know, that was my first reaction http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif , but I'm sure that the final mod (I'd like to call it ST-MegaMod, or perhaps ST-InterGenerations; ST-MM and ST-IG respectively) will be just fine. Capt'n, I'd just like to say that I really like the artwork you've done on TNG so far, and I hope it works it's way into the new "ST-MegaMod". I'm also a big fan of the unique ships by race and the unique buildings by race. The leaky shields are a MUST in my opinion, and I've been looking forward to seeing how they perform in tactical combat!

Finally, while I haven't observed the Captains components in action, I thought that that was fairly inspired also.

Good luck with the new mod, I personally think the synthesis of the two will be quite beneficial. I'll maybe post some of my thoughts on the whole intergeneration thing later too...

-jimbob

Atrocities

January 23rd, 2003, 03:39 AM

A critic!

Ryan would you be so kind as to explain what you dislike about the mod. The feed back could be very helpful in the future.

Yoink! Just like that, TNG gone?Its nothing like that. The TNG mod is not gone as Captain Kwok has invested to much time into it for it to happen. Take heart in knowning that the new mod, whatever the name, will be a damned fine mod that I am sure everyone will enjoy playing.

[ January 23, 2003, 01:43: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Fyron

January 23rd, 2003, 03:50 AM

Ryan, what do you not like about the AST Mod? Just saying that you do not like it doesn't really mean much. Maybe if you gave suggestions on how it could be better...

Captain Kwok

January 23rd, 2003, 06:41 AM

Do not fear!

All of the neat items will be included! This means items like leaky armor, leaky shields, captains, propulsion, and more races! Plus, you'd have two people working on the project which means it will get done! If it were up to me, I'd probably be fiddling around forever. More details will follow and the website will be updated this weekend reflecting the new changes.

Captain Kwok

January 23rd, 2003, 05:58 PM

Greetings.

Some tidbits:

The new Star Trek mod will include 3 additional main races in addition to the 7 that were originally expected in the TNG mod, they are:

Breen
Species 8472
Tholians

Atrocities and I will be working on creating specific racial techs and characteristics for these empires. The website will be updated this weekend with the details for each of the new additions. Even more fun, is the addition of Atrocities' neutral races that will be individualized to really flesh out the universe!

The mod has no truly specific timeline, although most of the ships are from the TNG era, most of the Tech tree really starts in the Enterprise era. I suppose an ultimate goal would be create a succession of ships to represent each era - but let's not bite off more than we can chew.

You may have noticed that I have referred to the combined mod simply as the 'Star Trek Mod'. I think we'll stick with that name since it's easy and won't be confused with any other mod - minus Geo's effort from some time ago - but that's not a big deal. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

That's all for now, thanks for interest and more importantly your patience!

Ryan

January 24th, 2003, 03:43 AM

I am not sure what I really do not like in the AST Modification. Maybe because not alot of technologies to explore or have I missed something? I also like new and unique ideas, just like Kwok's idea of Captains. I cannot be very specific with what is wrong with it but It is still a above average modification. On a scale of 0 to 2 (0 Bad, 1 Average, 2 Best) I would give it a 1.4. But I believe that once AST Mod merges with KST Mod they will become the best mod ever. Maybe it should be called the KAST (Kwok and Atrocities Star Trek) Mod. Eheh.

Here is a suggestion for the KAST Mod:
How about an Android Captain? (Data, Lore, B4)

I hope adding three races to the mod does not make the size too big or delay the release too long.

Capt. Peter Longstreet

January 24th, 2003, 07:21 AM

See. I dont check the board for a few days and all hell breaks loose. Personally I think this will be a good thing for all of us that have been waiting for so long for kwok's mod. by doubling the team, they double the speed and modding ability. They can tackle diferent projects in the mod so it will be a combination of the best from both of them. Since poor little me is stuck with non-gold (im in a private college, so i have no money http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif my birthday's in march and my gf has already promised me that gold will be one of my gifts.), i have been unable to play atrocities mod, but i have heard good things. And most importantly, the sooner the mod is done and refined to perfection, the sooner they can plan on a st mod for star fury once its released. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Ryan

January 24th, 2003, 10:44 PM

I have played the AST mod several times on different computers. I guess it is just what I like that makes me think I do not like it alot. Let's say I like Pepsi and "Bob" likes Coke and I do not like Coke and "Bob" does not like Pepsi, our likes conflict. It is something like that but I am sure that the ST Mod will be the best mod ever. Adding ships from each era/series would be hard and would make the mod too big for us 56K-ers. The AST mod is the biggest Mod I have downloaded but the largest file I have ever downloaded was around 80GBs. It almost took a whole day. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Good luck, Atrocities and Kwok.

Atrocities

January 25th, 2003, 02:00 AM

No offense Ryan, but have you played the AST mod?

Maybe because not alot of technologies to explore or have I missed something?Each race has its own tech tree, and there are three additional tech trees to follow. Even the neutral empires have a tech tree.

There are mounts, weapons, facilities, components, etc for nearly every race in the game.

Granted the tech levels started off equal at 2 weapons and componets each with multiple levels, but that is the beuty of the game, you can add more as you go. I have simply not gotten around to adding more.

In defense of the mod is also the first to use the Fyron Q-mod, and to take full advantage of the Image mod. Not to mention a few other fine mods.

Never the less, your right, 1.4 on your scale is a good rating, and I am honored that you ranked it so well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

userx

January 26th, 2003, 03:07 AM

I think this is a great idea!!!! Both of you have put a lot of work into your mods.

Good luck on this project!!

BTW, I've been playing the AST mod for some time and it's one of the best mods I've played.

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
Greetings!

This is just a brief announcement that the TNG mod no longer exists!

...Atrocities and I are going to combine our efforts to merging our mods into a single 'Star Trek' mod. I'll post more details once Atrocities and I have some time to discuss them...

[ January 26, 2003, 01:09: Message edited by: userx ]

Katchoo

January 26th, 2003, 08:38 AM

As they say, 2 heads are better than one! So for me this is good news to hear http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Just keep me on that Beta Testers List, cause I got alot of time to kill here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Captain Kwok

January 26th, 2003, 11:00 PM

I'm working away on a major site update that includes:
 Breaking 'Treknology' into smaller race-specific pages to reduce loading times! My editor tells me it takes about 60+ sec to load for the standard 56K modem user http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif . Also, updating the list to include recent changes to the mod.
 Adding new information to all the Race descriptions, and new entries for the Tholians, Breen, and Species 8472.
 Adding new ship pages for the above mentioned races.
 And finally, sticking in all into the new design format which can be partially seen at the moment.
One final thing, we also have set up a new forum for the mod, since the Shrapnel Games forum tends to have heavy traffic, and things tend to get lost or burried quickly. Star Trek Mod Discussion (http://galileo.spaceports.com/~kazharii/stmod.html) at Fyron's Imperial Forums.

[ January 26, 2003, 21:21: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Fyron

January 26th, 2003, 11:03 PM

Kwok, I think your editor is a crock then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Load times are always changing, based on many, many factors. All the editor does is take a strict calculation of supposed speed of the modem connection and divide it by file size.

Captain Kwok

January 26th, 2003, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Kwok, I think your editor is a crock then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Load times are always changing, based on many, many factors. All the editor does is take a strict calculation of supposed speed of the modem connection and divide it by file size.I'm on broadband, but I know when I access it from slower connections, it tends to take a bit longer than I'd like. Plus, breaking it up is better so the user doesn't have to scroll all the time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif .

Fyron

January 26th, 2003, 11:18 PM

I'd rather scroll than have to load an excessive number of pages.

Captain Kwok

January 26th, 2003, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I'd rather scroll than have to load an excessive number of pages.It'd be instantaneous, if I could spell that word correctly! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ January 26, 2003, 21:25: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Fyron

January 26th, 2003, 11:24 PM

Kwok, mimimizing the number of clicks necessary is often preferable to making sure each page loads instantaneously. That is why most forums let you view a huge number of Posts per page, for people like me that would rather not click 8 million times.

[ January 26, 2003, 21:25: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Graeme Dice

January 27th, 2003, 12:27 AM

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
Plus, breaking it up is better so the user doesn't have to scroll all the time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif .[/QB]Scrolling is far preferable to clicking through multiple browser windows, because I don't read as fast as the text downloads in a long window, but I do read faster than a new connection can be set up for a new page to be loaded.

CNCRaymond

January 28th, 2003, 12:36 AM

FYI just in case you did not know, Will is back in the hospital again.

Also, and this one hurts, his new pc died, and with it, the 3d images for the New Dominion,Ferengi, and Cardassian ship sets.

I have not told him yet, I do not want to added to his worries. Rest assured, there was no back up.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ January 27, 2003, 22:37: Message edited by: CNCRaymond ]

Captain Kwok

January 28th, 2003, 02:57 AM

Let's all hope that Will gets well quickly and is back with us soon!!!

It's unfortunate about the data loss, but lets hope that its recoverable!

The new patch is out, so that means some adjustments are to be made. I'm aiming for Saturday for the website update, which should include details of that sort.

Captain Kwok

January 29th, 2003, 07:46 AM

As you can see, I've been throwing up some new pages over the Last day, albeit lacking some good content which will follow shortly. There are a few missing links which will also be addressed just as soon as I can get to them (mostly in the treknology section). However, there are some new images up, so it might be worthwhile to check out.

I still can't believe I'm getting about 100 hits a day! I guess I'm not the only one who wanders the internet visiting the same obscure sites all the time!

I'm also looking for suggestions for some tech areas for the latest race additions, these are the directions I'm thinking of:

Tholian - Crystalline
Breen - Tad of organic
Species 8472 - Biological + tad of telepathic

I have a number of idea which I won't stick here right now, but they fall into those categories to some degree.

The Star Trek mod also has its own forum thanks to Fyron, here is the link: Star Trek Mod Forum (http://galileo.spaceports.com/~kazharii/stmod.html)

Feel free to post there and even create new topics.

In regards to the new release schedule, it's difficult to pinpoint a time due to recent circumstances. I keep everyone updated for sure.

Thanks for all the requests to be beta testers, be assured I have added you all to my list. I'll keep you posted on any new developments!

Thanks again.

Magnum357

January 30th, 2003, 10:49 AM

Hey Captain, as for tech for these races, I think I might have a couple of ideas for the Tholians.

Granted, you probably want to base the Tholians of of what we know from TNG, but the SFB rules for the Tholians where really interesting for weaponry.

Is it ok to make some suggestions for special weapons build by the Tholians from SFB to this mode? I don't know if SE4 will be able to copy exactly how these weapons behave, but it can be close and give the Tholians a unique way of fighting.

Fyron

January 30th, 2003, 10:58 AM

Kwok, the old site layout looked a lot better than this new one.....

[ January 30, 2003, 09:23: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Captain Kwok

January 31st, 2003, 02:30 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Kwok, the old site layout looked a lot better than this new one.....Why is that?

Fyron

January 31st, 2003, 02:31 AM

Because the old one looked better, that's why.

Captain Kwok

January 31st, 2003, 02:32 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Because the old one looked better, that's why.Specifically?

Fyron

January 31st, 2003, 02:45 AM

What do you want? It is not something like "they are 2 pixels too large" or something objective like that. The old design just looked better overall.

Ed Kolis

January 31st, 2003, 03:59 AM

Must be the purple... wait, Fyron's avatar is purple... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif
No, I know, it's the linkbar on the top instead of on the side where linkbars normally go!

jimbob

January 31st, 2003, 01:14 PM

I think it was the particular tone of purple... it clashes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif with Fyron's purple.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

CNCRaymond

January 31st, 2003, 03:24 PM

I like the color. Keep it.

minipol

February 2nd, 2003, 12:31 AM

i like the new forum layout too.
is it me or did the progress indicator go from 80% done to 60% done?

Captain Kwok

February 2nd, 2003, 12:35 AM

Originally posted by minipol:
...is it me or did the progress indicator go from 80% done to 60% done?Yes it did since the addition of new races and merging the files added some extra work. It should get back up there soon! In fact, I'd say it's already at 70%!

minipol

February 2nd, 2003, 12:45 AM

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
Yes it did since the addition of new races and merging the files added some extra work. It should get back up there soon! In fact, I'd say it's already at 70%!Ha, ok, it's just that i'm quite excited to play this mod once it's out. I think it adds something extra if you play startrek races because they are "familiar".
It adds to the athmosphere of the game.

Fyron

February 2nd, 2003, 05:11 AM

Originally posted by minipol:
i like the new forum layout too.Technically, the discussion was about the site layout, not the forum layout. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Atrocities

February 2nd, 2003, 06:23 PM

Kwok, please check your Private Messages. Thanks.

minipol

February 3rd, 2003, 01:07 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Technically, the discussion was about the site layout, not the forum layout. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Smart*ss http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
You are right off course. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Lib3r8er

February 5th, 2003, 05:29 AM

is it just me or did the progress indicater just go down again

Captain Kwok

February 5th, 2003, 05:41 AM

Originally posted by Lib3r8er:
is it just me or did the progress indicater just go down againIt didn't! It was suppossed to be at 60% but I had forgot to upload the appropriate graphic, so the 80% bar was there but said '60% Complete'. I have sinced fixed that.

Good News:

Atrocities is at home again and doing better, so that means that things should start to pick up a bit (well, in a week or so really since I'm being detained by 'academic' demands). We have connected a few times and made some decisions.

Re: Neutrals

We are planning on about 10 neutral races that are somewhat customized. Major ships for neutral races fall between 100-500kT in size, unlike regular SE:IV where they can build all sizes. After all, you don't expect the Bajorans to be building Dreadnoughts do you? This also means that the neutrals will get some custom ship images rather than generic ones, which adds to the diversity. At this time, no neutrals have custom techs, but who knows what we might be adding in the future.

One other thing - there is a problem with SE:IV. For example, the mod has 10 major races. When you select high AI races, you get duplicate AIs regardless of the max specified in settings.txt - is this a bug and is there a way around it? So far, the only way around this is to have at least 20 AI races...

[ February 05, 2003, 03:42: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Fyron

February 5th, 2003, 06:26 AM

Set the game to use fewer races with High numbers in Settings.txt. If you have 10 races, make the max races for a high number of races be 10. Be warned: the game will only add up to 5 neutral races randomly. You can manually add more with empire files, but the random process will add only 5.

Captain Kwok

February 5th, 2003, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Set the game to use fewer races with High numbers in Settings.txt. If you have 10 races, make the max races for a high number of races be 10. Be warned: the game will only add up to 5 neutral races randomly. You can manually add more with empire files, but the random process will add only 5.Did you not read my post?

Setting high AIs to say, 10, in settings.txt does not eliminate the choosing of duplicate AI empires by the game, although it does work in that it chooses only 10 AI empires.

[ February 05, 2003, 04:33: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Captain Kwok

February 8th, 2003, 12:06 AM

Here are the neutral races for the Star Trek Mod:

Bajorans
Gorn
Hirogen
Kazon
Krenim
Nausicaans
Pakled
Son'a
Talarians
Yridians

Neutral races will have access to the generic technology tree and will employ ship sizes between 100-500kT. I'll probably create an information page for them next week.

jimbob

February 8th, 2003, 12:32 AM

No!!!!!
Not the Pakled, I want them to be a primary race!

"We like things that make us go... Geordie, will you make us go??"

Ed Kolis

February 8th, 2003, 12:42 AM

I know you probably have a warp drive model already, but I thought you might be interested in this idea...

Model warp drives as components that have warp-opening and warp-closing ability of various (but short) distances - the more advanced the drive, the longer the distance. Stipulate that games should (but not necessarily must) begin with no warp points. (Or maybe that can be put into QuadrantTypes.txt... set max. warp points per system to zero...) Then a ship can go to warp by creating a warp point, and other ships can "ride the quantum slipstream" by following the warp point, unless the ship immediately closes the warp point once on the other side. Regular intrasystem travel would then be handled by impulse drives, and maneuvering thrusters would provide extra combat movement (with the Afterburner ability).

Just an idea... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Captain Kwok

February 8th, 2003, 04:03 PM

Ed Kolis:

Unfortunately there are lots of little problems with using a system like that, including warp point limits, simultaneous turn problems, AIs wouldn't be able to use the system as intended. I had considered a system like this before, but it just wouldn't work like you would you hope http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif !

Fyron

February 9th, 2003, 01:23 AM

AIs are very good at opening warp points in Not Connect games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Atrocities

February 9th, 2003, 05:57 AM

If your interested in seeing the new Ferengi, just click HERE (http://www.astmod.com/Ferengi.htm) and away you will go.

I don't know if Kwok is going to use them or not for the Star Trek mod.

Feed back on the set is welcome, but for the most part, they is finished!

Fyron

February 9th, 2003, 06:58 AM

Nice set!

The font on that page for the names of each vehicle size is black, and so unreadable without highlighting.

Magnum357

February 9th, 2003, 09:47 AM

Hey Atrocities, great set man! But.... I just don't understand peoples facination with Ferengi. Ya, they are neat to include in SE4, but I think they should not be considered more then a Neutral race. Ya, they are an empire, but I think only an Economic Empire, not a Military Empire. They could have fantastic Money capabilites but limited as a Neutral race. Just my opinion.

Captain Kwok

February 9th, 2003, 10:01 AM

If you check out maps of the Star Trek universe, the Ferengi do get a little big chunk of space and it gives the players the option of playing something other than war monger.

Fyron

February 9th, 2003, 10:12 AM

Ferengi warships are not to be overestimated. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Captain Kwok

February 9th, 2003, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Ferengi warships are not to be overestimated. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif You mean underestimated? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Capt. Peter Longstreet

February 10th, 2003, 02:52 AM

The set looks great. One thing i noticed was that you made transport ships. I always thought that all ferengi ships serve as armed freighters. I dunno, but maybe we could set it up so that they don't get normal freighters but all their ships have to have a cargo component. And since they are so obsessed with trade maybe give them a special cargo component that is a little better than the normal one (smaller, holds more or both) just a thought, but lets see what everyone else thinks.

Fyron

February 10th, 2003, 03:02 AM

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Ferengi warships are not to be overestimated. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif You mean underestimated? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <hr /></blockquote>I meant what I said. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Magnum357

February 10th, 2003, 05:44 AM

Agreed! Overestimated! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Ya, I think etheir a certain portion of their ships are cargo capability or they are a neutral race. I just can't see them as a military threat in the universe. Just an economic threat.

Captain Kwok

February 10th, 2003, 06:45 AM

Anyways...

It is obvious that Ferengi ships are smaller and their weapons less effective than the other races, so it would not be wise to be militarily aggressive.

userx

February 11th, 2003, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
If you check out maps of the Star Trek universe, the Ferengi do get a little big chunk of space and it gives the players the option of playing something other than war monger.As far are Star Charts is conserned, which is considered cannon, the Ferengi Alliance is about the size of Talar space, Badlands, or many other smaller civs, consisting of a homeworld and about a dozen colonies. I would compare them to organized crime, lots of cash, well armed, but not a serious threat to national governments.

With that said, not sure they should be a Neural Race as Ferengi ships can be found throughout local space and neurals cannot leave their system. More appropriatly would be having a very high cost of colony modules so that there growth is much slower than the big powers.

FYI, Bajor seems to have as many colonies as the Ferengi! Does that make them a colonial power?

This raises and interesting point? Maybe races such as the Ferengi, Gorn, Tzenjethi Coalition, Talarians and others could Minor Powers; races that have the ability to colonies outside their home systems but have a very high cost for colonization modules to limit their growth?

Just thinking out loud...

Atrocities

February 11th, 2003, 09:26 AM

The font on that page for the names of each vehicle size is black, and so unreadable without highlighting. Fixed.

Magnum 357, good to see you posting again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I think, just my opinion, that the Ferengi were protrayed as a weak empire and there really is not much information to counter this. However, it was established that they do have a military branch, all be it, one that is based upon trade and protecting trade routes.

BOTF established the Ferengi as a empire, and I think, and perhaps Kwok my agree, that this is why they have been considered by all, (Warp_nine, myself, and Kwok) as a ligitimate power.

But whether or not Kwok wants to include them is really up to him. I will support whatever decision he makes, but I would like to see them as a major race, but could live with them as a minor one.

I think they have a lot to offer as a major race, they are strong traders, merchants and exploiters. What better reason to have a large military than to protect your assets?

minipol

February 11th, 2003, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by userx:
This raises and interesting point? Maybe races such as the Ferengi, Gorn, Tzenjethi Coalition, Talarians and others could Minor Powers; races that have the ability to colonies outside their home systems but have a very high cost for colonization modules to limit their growth?

Just thinking out loud...I like the idea of having these as minor powers. Doesn't confine them to their home systems but they could still pose a threat if left alone long enough.

Fyron

February 11th, 2003, 10:34 AM

They are either an empire, or a neutral empire. There is no inbetween, except for scenarios. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Captain Kwok

February 11th, 2003, 04:12 PM

The Ferengi Alliance will remain a major race which might be a slight exaggeration of their actual canon presence, but it allows players to take different roles in a game. The Ferengi will rely more on their economic abilities than military might.

I want to stay away from separate colony modules.

As you may have noticed, I've been kidnapped by schoLastic demands the Last couple of weeks, but I'm hoping to hook up with Atrocities this weekend to finalize the new components and facilities in the mod, so we can get back to the data files and put this monster out.

We'll also try to work out a schedule and stick to it, I know that its been so long already!

Atrocities

February 11th, 2003, 04:46 PM

I am working on modifying ship sets for the races that the mod will be using. (That is to say, the races that use New Age Ship Yard sets.) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I would also like to display my newest creation.

Click HERE (http://astmod.com/feature.htm) to take a look. I kinda doubt that any of Cardassian ships I am now making will be in this mod, but if they are, they will be exclusive to this mod as will be the Ferengi.

CNC likes the old sets. I like them too, and am glad that he is going to stick to using them for his AST mod.

Kwok has done a fantastic job with this mod, and it should be noted that his dedication is paying off in spades. The sheer volume of work that he has done is mind boggling. It is no easy task to make even a simple mod, so it goes without saying that the time Kwok has put into the ST mod has been considerable. Kwok has spent a lot of time on detail and quality. He has planned it out so well that there really is not much for me to help him with.

It blows me away at what he has done, and I am sincerely amazed both by the mod, and by Kwoks efforts to make this mod "the" Star Trek mod for all SEIV Players.

The interest people have shown for this mod clearly proves the value of Kwoks work.

Thanks Kwok for going the extra mile for this mod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 11, 2003, 14:56: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Captain Kwok

February 11th, 2003, 05:33 PM

Geez Atrocities http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif I surely don't deserve all those accolades!

Perhaps when the mod emerges from Kodos status and is playable we can take about praise! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

No, I'm just glad that I can tap in your enthusiasm for this project. It's fun!

I really like the cardassian ship. I'll let you in on my ideas for other designs, but that is a great start!

userx

February 12th, 2003, 03:31 AM

Atrocities

The new Cardassian ship rocks! Much better than the rips from BOTF that are floating around.

Capt-Kwok

Fair enough on the Ferengi. I'd hate to suggest something that would delay the mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Atrocities

February 13th, 2003, 12:28 AM

Hey, those rips took me a day to do, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif two years ago.

minipol

February 13th, 2003, 01:25 AM

Atrocities, your shipsets were one of the reasons i bought SEIV. It gives the game a special athmosphere. I have high hopes for this mod too!

Atrocities

February 13th, 2003, 03:13 AM

I have posted new images to the Cardassian feature page. Heres the link. http://astmod.com/feature.htm

Let me know what you think of each. Thanks.

userx

February 13th, 2003, 04:15 AM

Originally posted by Atrocities:
Hey, those rips took me a day to do, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif two years ago.Sorry! Didn't mean to de-value your hard work in the past http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Captain Kwok

February 13th, 2003, 06:52 AM

Atrocities:

What about a hull colour between the two? I think that would work the best.

Specific ideas re: ships

Gal Class:

I'd probably rename this class - too similiar to Galor and also the ship is not a girl either.
Nice ship though, I'd scale the size down though for the portrait.

Galor Class:

Fine and dandy.

Kalden Class:

The correct spelling is Keldon.

Veracidor Class:

Nice design, probably needs a better Cardassian name. I'd also scale the size down on this one.

Hutet Class:

Nice design. I'd lose the small circular part that juts out of the forward hull's superstructure.

I have some other ideas for Cardie ships:

Kelora Class:

Galor Class forward hull with dual tail like WW2 P-37 Lightning with a small module connecting the two tail pieces at the rear.

Hideki Class:

Actual ship from show. Small round forward hull with bridge module inset with typical tail.

Reklar Class:

Adapt Veracidor class with round bridge module and shorter tail. More along the lines of the thinner Version.

That should keep you busy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

[ February 13, 2003, 04:54: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Atrocities

February 13th, 2003, 10:10 AM

Veracidor Class:

Nice design, probably needs a better Cardassian name. I'd also scale the size down on this one. That is the actual name of the ship that it was modeled after. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I have added two new ships.

I am working on several others, including one with no tail section but has to engine on either side of the forward section of a galor class hull. Should look interesting when I am done.

I included the Dule Aft hull and engine model and actually used one of your names for it. I had made the model today, and it best fit your description. (Although the new ship might as well.)

On a side note:
Did any one see Enterprise tonight? Did you see the Andorian ships? Gee, I wonder where they got the idea for those ship configurations? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

minipol

February 13th, 2003, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by Atrocities:
I have posted new images to the Cardassian feature page. Heres the link. http://astmod.com/feature.htm

Let me know what you think of each. Thanks.I just checked them out and they are great. I like them. Nice job!

Capt. Peter Longstreet

February 13th, 2003, 08:59 PM

the cardassian ships look great. I just have one or 2 comments. i have an official model of a galor so i compared the two. i think the hull should be a little more tapered and less boxy aft of the "wings". The foward disc sticks out further and the wings are more angular and come to a point at the tips. just a few thoughts. take it or leave it. as is they look fantastic anyway.

jimbob

February 13th, 2003, 10:58 PM

going back to the Ferengi:

The Ferengi Alliance will remain a major race which might be a slight exaggeration of their actual canon presence, but it allows players to take different roles in a game. The Ferengi will rely more on their economic abilities than military might.I'd like to see them stay as a major race too - just one that will need to be played differently to succeed. I'd just encourage you to give them significant financial edges - perhaps some cheaper facilities, lower maint. costs, etc. I've some nifty components made up for the B5 mod that I'd be happy to pass along - essentially improved Remote Miners without any environmental concerns (Remote Resource Strippers, etc.)

I'd also like to suggest an idea from P&N, the pirates have a civilian "cloaked" ships. They can't be detected by any scanners, so can move freely (except for those pesky mines) about and predate any stragglers - it seems a ferengi thing to do! I also agree that they should have no cargo ships per se but instead have a cargo requirement for all ships (thus introducing the military disadvantage at the same time)

Just my thoughts, great mod, yeah team!

I want to stay away from separate colony modules.Yeah, that would be a pain, you'd need to go to the P&N system almost wholesale wouldn't you...

Cheers,
Jim

Captain Kwok

February 14th, 2003, 02:19 AM

Atrocities:

The Kelora is sweet, just as I had envisioned it!

Captain Kwok

February 14th, 2003, 04:16 AM

I'll be updating the Star Trek mod site this weekend with a slew of new images and updates to the technology list, plus a few other minor details.

I'll be sure to post when I've uploaded the new stuff.

Atrocities

February 15th, 2003, 07:30 AM

I have posted new ships to the site. Including a new Galor type.

http://astmod.com/feature.htm

[ February 15, 2003, 05:31: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Atrocities

February 15th, 2003, 03:45 PM

Ok, I have posted the final ships to the site as well as the Bases. Enjoy.

http://astmod.com/feature.htm

http://astmod.com/newdom/cb1p.PNG http://astmod.com/newdom/cb2p.PNG http://astmod.com/newdom/cb3p.PNG

Terok Nor (sp) Was the hardest to do next to the Hideki Class ship.

[ February 15, 2003, 13:46: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Atrocities

February 15th, 2003, 04:00 PM

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1045317499.BMP

I doubt I will re-colorize the Breen, but I do like this texture. It looks more like the Breen ship did in DS9.

(Maybe for the Star Trek mod if Kwok wants them this new color. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

Captain Kwok

February 15th, 2003, 07:49 PM

Oh, I like the new Breen texture...perhaps a tad brighter for visibility. It also looks a tad organic-ky, which would be a nice match to certain technologies they have.

Magnum357

February 15th, 2003, 11:15 PM

Ya, I agree. The Breen Vessel looks great, just a tad too dark for my taste. Any way to brighten it up a little Atrocities?

Magnum357

February 15th, 2003, 11:21 PM

Speaking of color for ships, what about the Klingons? I've never been a big fan of how the TNG show made the Klingons use "Green ships" like Romulan ships look like. I really liked Kwok's "Blue-green" color for the ships to his mode, it gave the Klingons more of an orignal "TOS" feel and gave the Klingons some unique quailties in ship appearance.

If you are doing the Klingons too Atrocities, could you please consider making the hull textures a "Blue-green" feel instead of a Green appearance?

jimbob

February 16th, 2003, 12:07 AM

Atrocities:

Nice ships. Between the two of you, this is going to be one sweet looking mod!

Captain Kwok

February 16th, 2003, 12:37 AM

The website has been partially updated so far, which means that new ship images are available for the Cardassians, Dominion, and Species 8472.

Most of the information pages are still needed to be updated, this includes the technology list. Hopefully soon.

Fyron

February 16th, 2003, 01:52 AM

Kwok, the 8472 ships on the ST mod web site are original images, created by Atrocities. Why are they listed as non-original images (red button instead of green)?

Captain Kwok

February 16th, 2003, 02:02 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Kwok, the 8472 ships on the ST mod web site are original images, created by Atrocities. Why are they listed as non-original images (red button instead of green)?Because I obviously forget to fix that!

Fyron

February 16th, 2003, 02:04 AM

Okey-dokey. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The purple background of the top and bottom frames doesn't look very good. I suggest you make it black again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Captain Kwok

February 20th, 2003, 10:21 AM

Before I let this thread slide into oblivion, I thought I should reiterate that we have a nice forum at Fyron's Imerpial Forums. It works better since you can create individual topics and polls, and you don't have to scroll through any massive topics like this one. This will now be our preferred forum:

*** Star Trek Mod Forum *** (http://galileo.spaceports.com/~kazharii/stmod.html)

I promise to get the rest of the website update done this weekend. It will include the revised tech tree and proper descriptions for each of the new races. I also have the next week off for the most part, so I'm hoping to pump out a few more ships. Atrocities and I will also work out a timeline that we can try and stick to, so we can move out of 'kodos' status to a functional mod.

Ed Kolis

February 21st, 2003, 01:24 AM

What's "kodos" status anyway? I thought Kodos was that green alien that always showed up on the Halloween episodes of "The Simpsons"... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Fyron

February 21st, 2003, 01:57 AM

He was referencing a guy that goes by the nick of Lord Kodos. Look for the Vectorian Mainframe Productions thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Captain Kwok

February 21st, 2003, 05:42 AM

The term 'Kodos' status refers to a mod in the development stage. I use it in honour of the hardworking Lord Kodos and his infinite supply of mods in development for Space Empires.

Captain Kwok

February 25th, 2003, 03:38 AM

I added the race descriptions for the Breen, Tholians, and Species 8472. I'll be adding the updated components & facility list tomorrow. Look for new ships later this week.

Captain Kwok

February 26th, 2003, 03:23 AM

I've updated the Treknology section with about 40 new additions and at least 10 updates. Be sure to check out the Breen, Tholian, and Species 8472 sections as they are completely new.

Feel free to post in our official forum any comments and suggestions you might have!

Thanks again!

[ February 26, 2003, 02:01: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Suicide Junkie

February 26th, 2003, 04:26 AM

Glanced at the tech section on the webpage, and I'm wondering what the point of "Mini" structural integrity field is?

They're both zero size, and one-per ship, so why would you ever want to use the weaker one?

Captain Kwok

February 26th, 2003, 04:31 AM

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Glanced at the tech section on the webpage, and I'm wondering what the point of "Mini" structural integrity field is?

They're both zero size, and one-per ship, so why would you ever want to use the weaker one?'Cause it is for vehicles like fighters, shuttles, and troops!

Ed Kolis

February 26th, 2003, 05:39 AM

Is it just me or are there a LOT fewer racial techs than there used to be? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Fyron

February 26th, 2003, 06:00 AM

I think it is an illusion from them being on separate pages instead of one long page now. Of course, I could be wrong. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Captain Kwok

February 26th, 2003, 06:08 AM

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
Is it just me or are there a LOT fewer racial techs than there used to be? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif It's just you. There's actually more! I've just separated the list into smaller chunks, so like Fyron said, it just seems that way.

Most races have about 15-20 components that are exclusive.

Captain Kwok

February 26th, 2003, 06:55 PM

Here is the Ferengi D'Kora class Marauder before final textures:
http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/sample-dkora.gif

Captain Kwok

February 27th, 2003, 12:01 AM

Here are some race/captain pictures:
http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/leader-federation.png http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/leader-klingon.png
http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/leader-romulan.png

Fyron thought they sucked, but I think they're fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Fyron

February 27th, 2003, 12:45 AM

They are too balloonish. I do hope you will use actual pictures of the people or decent renditions of them instead of these things. If not, I'll have to replace them myself in my local copy to make the mod playable. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 26, 2003, 22:46: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Suicide Junkie

February 27th, 2003, 12:58 AM

Hehe.

They are definitely not serious looking, but certainly entertaining.

Methinks the Romulan guys shouldn't be quite so uptight. If he ever gets angry or nervous, he'll end up eating his eyebrows http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Captain Kwok

February 27th, 2003, 01:32 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
They are too balloonish. I do hope you will use actual pictures of the people or decent renditions of them instead of these things. If not, I'll have to replace them myself in my local copy to make the mod playable. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Yeah thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif . Anyways, I gave them real eyes (check below), so they look better - and no I'm not using screencaps etc...

Fyron

February 27th, 2003, 03:28 AM

Those pics just do not look good for human-like aliens.

Captain Kwok

February 27th, 2003, 09:30 AM

Here is the Ferengi D'Kora class Marauder with most of its final textures:
http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/sample-dkora.png

Katchoo

February 27th, 2003, 12:07 PM

Just ignore them Captain, the Race pics look great! I can't wait to see your Borg or Species 8472 rendition http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The new Ferengi ship looks very good too (Much more like on ST:TNG).

Just out of curiosity, will you be Modding in some of the more exotic Star Trek anomalies (sp?), such as the Probe from the 5th Star Trek Movie, or the Doomsday Weapon from TOS? Encountering these things would be really sweet!

Captain Kwok

February 27th, 2003, 05:05 PM

Here is a Klingon K'Vort class Bird of Prey that I dusted off from storage:
http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/action-kvort.png

jimbob

February 27th, 2003, 05:56 PM

Oh, the captains are a hoot! They all have sort of a muppet mouth... the Jean Luc charicature looks a lot like one of the old guys from the muppet show! (...why do we always come here/I guess we'll never know/it's like a kind of torture/to have to watch this show/hahahaha)

The Ferengi ship looks great with the final textures. I'm looking forward to giving them a try.

Fyron

February 27th, 2003, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by jimbob:
Oh, the captains are a hoot! They all have sort of a muppet mouth... the Jean Luc charicature looks a lot like one of the old guys from the muppet show! (...why do we always come here/I guess we'll never know/it's like a kind of torture/to have to watch this show/hahahaha)Yes, and this is why they are bad for the mod.

ZeroAdunn

February 27th, 2003, 11:07 PM

I like the captains, very humerous and cartoony. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Atrocities

February 27th, 2003, 11:28 PM

Nice looking K'Vort. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 27, 2003, 21:48: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Captain Kwok

February 27th, 2003, 11:59 PM

Here are two Dominion ships - A Jem'Hadar Dreadnought and a Battlecruiser:
http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/sample-jemhadardreadnought.png http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/sample-jemhadarbattlecruiser.png
These models were made by Atrocities. A fine job.

[ February 27, 2003, 22:00: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

The Canuck

February 28th, 2003, 02:37 AM

those are good designs but not for the dominion, why dont you use the actual designs that exist for dominion dreadnouht and battlecruiser, and maybe move the smaller designs down a level or two to try to get rid of using the fighter type design 3 times for the first three classes. thats just my two cents, other than that great work, i love the cardasian designs.

Captain Kwok

February 28th, 2003, 03:01 AM

The two designs I posted for the Dominion below are rather close to their actual designs as seen in Star Trek. Of course, there is some difference, but that is because of limitations in the program they were made with.

The 'repeat' of the attack ships is not due to a lack of ships. During the run of Deep Space Nine, there appeared to be different sizes of the Jem'Hadar fighters (same deal with those Klingon Bird of Preys), so that is why there are three different sizes available.

Atrocities

February 28th, 2003, 03:03 AM

The Dominion ships, or fighter types that you are refering to actually are three types. The smallest one is considered an escort/large fighter, and the other two are easily Frigate and Destroyer size ships.

The Dominion only has 3 actual ship designs used in DS9. So when they had to come up with a ship that looked bigger than a fighter, they used the same "Beatle" design, but made it larger. They did this again for the Episode when the Romulans/Cardassians are tricked into attacking the Founder homeworld. They made the "Big Beatle" bigger.

In later episodes, they introduced two other large Capitol ships, the Battle Cruiser, and the Battleship/Dreadnought. (Episode Name was The Valant.)

The original Dominion ship set was created using images from DS9 technical manual, and from a website that was named www.starshipscematics.com (http://www.starshipscematics.com)

I colorized many of the ships, and really took the forefront on establishing the Dominion as a playable race following a few other great efforts.

Finally I decided to make a new ship set for the Dominion based upon ship designs and such that could be duplicated in some degree.

That is the new set. Mind you, unless you want to spend a good week designing an exact replica of a Dominion ship in some 3D program, these ships are your best bet for "creative licensed" ships for the Dominion.

Ok, long winded response.

Short of it, there are actually three beatle ship sizes used by the Dominion.

To see old Dominion ships, you can visit The Dominion (http://galileo.spaceports.com/~william/dominion.htm)

Mind you, the New Dominion ship set site is off line for now. I will have it back up soon enough.

[ February 28, 2003, 01:05: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Captain Kwok

February 28th, 2003, 03:11 AM

There you go.

Well summarized Atrocities!

Fyron

February 28th, 2003, 03:15 AM

The ships should be more purplish to look like the ships in DS9 though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The Canuck

February 28th, 2003, 03:30 AM

ok im happy with that explanation, and i was kinda a dumbass as i know how hard it is to create models accurately and how harder it is to get a mod made, and im even more of a dumbass because im part of a mod team for HW right now so, im sorry for that. i guess maybe later if someone takes the time they could make the actual model for the larger cap ships, they can be used. but till then i can live with these designs if i have too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif but once again, really great job so far, cant wait for the finished product http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

ps i agree wit Fyron, more purple, too blue

[ February 28, 2003, 01:31: Message edited by: The Canuck ]

CNCRaymond

February 28th, 2003, 05:04 AM

I colorized many of the ships, I thought someone else did this for you?

I like the blue ships although I have to agree, they do not look very dominionish. However, I do like the color, and hope that you continue to use it. It gives the Dominion a unique look and feel that sets them apart from other races. I say keep the blue.

And I visited the Fyron Forum for your Star Trek Mod, and I have to say that your Races look quite good and that Jim Henson will be calling you in the morning. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Seriously, they look great. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Captain Kwok

February 28th, 2003, 05:17 AM

Ok, if you scroll down, the ships have been slightly modified to appear a tad more violet as they should be. Also, I uploaded the new images to the website, so all is good.

Got to adjust that damn abode gamma!

[ February 28, 2003, 03:29: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Capt. Peter Longstreet

February 28th, 2003, 07:22 AM

The new stuff looks great. I was wondering if 8472 will have the planet-killer beam seen in "scorpion". it could be set up as stellar manipulation, but work more like stellar construction. one ship has the focusing component, a few other ships need some kind of energy generator (like a ringworld constructor and the cables and plating). i dont think its possible to put in the art for it, but at least it can work like it did on the show with the multiple ships.

Captain Kwok

February 28th, 2003, 08:38 AM

At this time for the 'planet buster', I have a big weapon that can only target planets and fires once per round. I was thinking that it would be quite powerful and several hits could wipe out all life on a planet.

Fyron

February 28th, 2003, 12:20 PM

I think they blew the whole planet up.

Atrocities

March 1st, 2003, 02:12 AM

CNC - I colorized the original ship images, and later Val made all the images one color for me.

About combining a bunch of ships to make a super weapon, I had discussed that with Kwok using the same concept as describe below. Odd how great minds often think alike. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

But from a pratical point of view, I don't think it can be done. You'll have to ask Kwok about that.

Fyron

March 1st, 2003, 02:37 AM

You can make a really big vehicle size, and a really big planet buster comp that only fits on that size. This could simulate needed 9 ships or whatever to break planets, but it would introduce other problems, like using the big vehicle size for other purposes. Of course, you could give it 1000 increased maintenance, and give the planet buster comp 1000 decreased maintenance to balance that out. That would strongly discourage people from using the large ship for anything else. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Atrocities

March 1st, 2003, 02:58 AM

The Death Star.

You could also make a mount that would only work on base ships, and only for that race, and would cost a bajillion in resources to prevent its use.

Captain Kwok

March 6th, 2003, 06:45 AM

I'm aware that the Species 8472 ships blew up the planet, but I didn't want to introduce another planet destroying weapon, so I altered it just to glass the planet in a couple of hits...

I've added 3 more ships for the Ferengi at the website, check them out if you want...my favourite one is the Kreechta class Marauder.

[ March 06, 2003, 04:47: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

jimbob

March 7th, 2003, 01:14 AM

Yup, they're nice all right. I'm thinking that the Ferengi would be a definite race to play.

Captain Kwok

March 7th, 2003, 02:07 AM

Here's an updated Version of the Ferengi D'Kora class Marauder. I made a couple of minor changes to the colour and texture.
http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/sample-dkora.png

ts22

March 7th, 2003, 04:16 AM

Hey, I really like what you guys are doing with this mod. Do you have any sort of tentative completion date? Thanks!

Atrocities

March 7th, 2003, 01:00 PM

Tenative completion date? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif When its done. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I can not speak for Captain Kwok and I would not presume to.

I feel that it takes time to make a mod of this complexity and the Captain, (Kwok) seems like the kind of person who knows what must be done, and does it. If you look at his models and the work he has done on the mod thus far you gain an appreciation for how much planning he has put into the mod. He is plugging away at it and he has made a considerable advancements in recent weeks.

I am not all that good at AI construction, what I know is from trial and error and examples that other folks have done. Kwok designed the mod, and knows it inside and out, so he is doing all most all of the work on it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

He has nearly finished the Ferengi ship set for the mod, and they look great. He has added new klingon ships, B'rel and K'Vort, and has kept the Star Trek Mod site up to date and looking good. He is plugging away on the data files and AI.

Once all of the little steps and obsticles are out of play, and the peace are in place, then the mod will come together rather rapidly. Until then, it is one step at a time.

Captain Kwok

March 7th, 2003, 06:49 PM

I think Atrocities summed it up well.

The biggest hurdle to the mod at this moment is my school related crap. Once that's over, it should free up a lot more time so I can collect all my little fragments of files and stick them together. I update the status page at the website periodically, so it kind of gives an indication of where things are at.

Atrocities has been doing some foundation work for the AIs, and once the major data files are functional, they can be finished off. The data files right now are mostly done, but I haven't fixed them up so that they correspond (i.e. tech areas and components, etc) or made adjustments for changes that were made when Atrocities came onboard. I hope to get some of that done this weekend.

I'm not so worried about the ships, we can always add placeholders until the proper ones are ready to go. I enjoy making the ships the most, it's a nice break from modding files or trying to calculate the enthalpy in a constant volume reversible expansion!

I keep a mailing list of people interested in the Star Trek mod, and every once in a while I send something out. You can also check this thread or our official forums at Fyron's website - as I post updates often. I prefer Fyron's forums to this thread, because you can create your own topics and polls, and that way things can be categorized and don't get lost in a big thread like this one!

[ March 07, 2003, 16:50: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

ts22

March 7th, 2003, 07:43 PM

Thanks for the responses. It looks great and I can't wait to play it!

Captain Kwok

March 7th, 2003, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by jimbob:
Yup, they're nice all right. I'm thinking that the Ferengi would be a definite race to play.I think so too. Their ship sizes for the most part are smaller and their primary weapons weaker, so conquest isn't really an option. However, they'll get extra trade and storage so they can generate a strong economy and buy items from other players...that should help to reduce any tactical disadvantage...

Captain Kwok

March 10th, 2003, 10:09 AM

Here is a rough portrait of a Cardassian:
http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/leader-cardassian.png

I'll tidy him up later.

[ March 10, 2003, 08:09: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Atrocities

March 10th, 2003, 11:43 AM

Lookin good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Fyron

March 10th, 2003, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
Here is a rough portrait of a Cardassian:

I'll tidy him up later.Way too muppet-like.

Captain Kwok

March 10th, 2003, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
Here is a rough portrait of a Cardassian:

I'll tidy him up later.Way too muppet-like.<hr /></blockquote>Way too picky.

Fyron

March 10th, 2003, 10:26 PM

I am picky because that is a bad style? How does that follow?

ZeroAdunn

March 10th, 2003, 10:38 PM

Fyron: You might want to put a smiley after that post, so everybody knows your not serious.

Captain Kwok

March 10th, 2003, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I am picky because that is a bad style? How does that follow?I suppose because you are so bothered by them that you want to replace them in your own copy of the mod, when most people agree they'll be just fine and complement the mod? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Anyways...I rather not waste more space in this thread on the matter and consider it closed. You'll just have to hunt down some 'caps for yourself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif !

Fyron

March 10th, 2003, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I am picky because that is a bad style? How does that follow?I suppose because you are so bothered by them that you want to replace them in your own copy of the mod, when most people agree they'll be just fine and complement the mod? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Anyways...I rather not waste more space in this thread on the matter and consider it closed. You'll just have to hunt down some 'caps for yourself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif !<hr /></blockquote>Or just use the ones from Atrocities' sets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Well... its hard to play a mod when the graphics are awful to look at. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Captain Kwok

March 11th, 2003, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Well... its hard to play a mod when the graphics are awful to look at. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif I suppose that is more of that 'constructive criticism' again, eh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

More on topic...

I'm working on the data files at the moment and Atrocities is getting together parts of the AI files, so things are moving along. I'll try and put together a good status update this weekend...I think we're at about 80% - rather than the ~60% currently displayed at the site.

[ March 11, 2003, 05:22: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Fyron

March 11th, 2003, 10:56 AM

I suppose that is more of that 'constructive criticism' again, eh? I already gave constructive criticism on this issue: make them look more realistic and less balloonish/muppet-like. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

tesco samoa

March 12th, 2003, 12:50 AM

Romulan Ship Set Names.
Here is 492 Romulan Ship Names... Hopefully their are no dups.

Enjoy

Also if you want to add to it let me know...

1047422792.txt (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1047422792.txt)

Captain Kwok

March 12th, 2003, 01:30 AM

Ok, I made some changes to the Cardassian:
http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/sample-cardie1.png http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/sample-cardie2.png

The newer one is on the left...

Tesco:

Thanks for the names. I'll take a look at them.

Captain Kwok

March 12th, 2003, 08:29 AM

Here is an updated Version of 'Picard':
http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/images/sample-fedcapt1.png

I'm really starting to like them more after these latest refinements.

[ March 12, 2003, 06:31: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

ZeroAdunn

March 12th, 2003, 08:54 AM

Can we get some action poses on those captains? Oh yeah, muppet picard kicking some muppet borg @$$ would be nice....

Oooh, 80%, does this mean it will be done soon?

Captain Kwok

March 13th, 2003, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by ZeroAdunn:
Can we get some action poses on those captains? Oh yeah, muppet picard kicking some muppet borg @$$ would be nice....

Oooh, 80%, does this mean it will be done soon?The troops and stuff will be armed and I suppose I could make a few action pics for you down the road.

Ok...the actually number is probably 75% done, but I'll try to bump that number up over the next week or so as I think I have some free time coming my way.

Captain Kwok

March 13th, 2003, 07:51 AM

Intelligence operations in the Star Trek mod focus more on espionage and low-level sabotage, so projects like force concentrations, ship bombs, and research interruption represent the general options available. Unbalancing projects such as Puppet Political Parties have been removed to prevent issues that plague regular SE:IV games. The research path for intelligence projects has been divided into a couple of areas so AI races will not waste time researching and launching intel projects that are of no benefit to them.This is from an upcoming update to the 'features' page at the STmod website. What do you think?

Ed Kolis

March 27th, 2003, 03:50 AM

You updated the mod site without telling anybody? Bad Kwok! Uh, I mean, Hooray! Uh, I mean, Bad Kwok! Uh... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

So, looking around... aren't Romulans supposed to have pointy ears? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif ... honorable schemers, I wonder how that would work... We are planting a bomb on your starship... HONORABLY! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

The Cardassian description seems to... borrow... a bit from the Federation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Are the Tholians, Breen, and 8472 going to have some sort of penalty to offset the advantages of liking planets that other races don't? (At least the Tholians and 8472 since oxygen ice planets can still be desired by other races once they get ice colony tech)

Oh good, none of that silliness about the Breen homeworld being temperate until 500 years ago when it froze over, and now they can't stand heat... riiiight, they suddenly adapted 500 years ago but can't adapt back? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Leaky shields - wouldn't you have to give all components the crystalline armor ability for it to work properly? Otherwise the shields regenerate only when the generator is hit, which is kind of weird...

A research/intel/cargo/etc. facility II is TWICE as good as a level I facility? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif isn't that a bit much??? or do the costs increase appropriately?

The Ferengi still get a combat bonus from captainless ships...

A warehouse PRODUCES resources??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Planning on using all the fancy Nx damage to shields damage types?

As usual, keep up the good work? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Suicide Junkie

March 27th, 2003, 05:11 AM

Leaky shields - wouldn't you have to give all components the crystalline armor ability for it to work properly? Otherwise the shields regenerate only when the generator is hit, which is kind of weird...Just like emissive armor, it dosen't care where you get hit.

All crystalline ability on the hull gets used whenever there is a normal-damage hit to any component.

Suicide Junkie

March 27th, 2003, 03:50 PM

Planning on using all the fancy Nx damage to shields damage types?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The polarized hull plating is armor, not shields, and is simply basic emissive armor.Using the various shield damage multipliers will affect the maximum deflection %.

1/4 damage = shields absorb up to 80% of each hit.
1/2 = 66%
normal = 50%
2x = 33%
4x = 20%

Ed Kolis

March 27th, 2003, 09:52 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
The Ferengi still get a combat bonus from captainless ships...
What do you mean? The Ferengi do not have dedicated combat captains like other races...their only sources of bonuses will be in the form of sensors etc.
<hr /></blockquote>Yeah... but there's nothing to stop a cunning Ferengi admiral from assigning NO captain to a ship... and since all the Ferengi captains provide combat penalties, that would effectively be a combat bonus! Not to mention that when the captain is lost, the penalty goes away too... The captain's dead, now we can all fight better! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif
Why not just give the Ferengi a racial penalty to combat, either in their culture or their racial traits, and remove the penalties from the captains?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
Planning on using all the fancy Nx damage to shields damage types?
The polarized hull plating is armor, not shields, and is simply basic emissive armor.
<hr /></blockquote>Huh? Never said anything about polarized hull plating... I was just asking if you're going to spread around those interesting damage types to make some weapons better at penetrating shields than others.

Captain Kwok

March 28th, 2003, 01:56 AM

You are under a mistaken impression that every ship requires/uses a captain...they do not. Ships without them can be assumed to have the average 'captain'. They are just components with different abilities that you can use if you want.

The idea behind a freighter captain is to reduce maintenance for non-combat ships since you're not really using them for combat. The combat penalty is to ensure players don't use these components on warships where they don't belong.

The Ferengi are not designed to be war mongers. They require a different strategy and their bonuses will reflect that.

Captain Kwok

March 28th, 2003, 02:39 AM

So, looking around...aren't Romulans supposed to have pointy ears? Honorable schemers, I wonder how that would work...We are planting a bomb on your starship...HONORABLY!I do have an improved Version where the ears are more pointed, I'll upload it later today. The 'honorable' is from official descriptions of Romulans.

The Cardassian description seems to... borrow... a bit from the FederationThat would be a leftover error from a cut and paste job.

Are the Tholians, Breen, and 8472 going to have some sort of penalty to offset the advantages of liking planets that other races don't? (At least the Tholians and 8472 since oxygen ice planets can still be desired by other races once they get ice colony tech)Well, oxygen rock planets are more common than any other planet type, so that should help with balance issues.

A research/intel/cargo/etc. facility II is TWICE as good as a level I facility? Isn't that a bit much??? Or do the costs increase appropriately?The costs are appropriate for the increase.

The Ferengi still get a combat bonus from captainless ships...What do you mean? The Ferengi do not have dedicated combat captains like other races...their only sources of bonuses will be in the form of sensors etc.

A warehouse PRODUCES resources??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif Woops, that would be another error. It should read 30K-40K-50K MINs; ORGs; RADs storage, which it does now since I fixed it.

Planning on using all the fancy Nx damage to shields damage types?The polarized hull plating is armor, not shields, and is simply basic emissive armor.

Ed Kolis

March 29th, 2003, 12:14 AM

OK, I guess that makes sense now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Captain Kwok

March 29th, 2003, 06:12 PM

For those who may not be aware, the Star Trek mod has an 'official' forum hosted by Fyron:

Star Trek Mod Forum (http://galileo.spaceports.com/~kazharii/stmod.html)

There's lots of good stuff there!

[ March 29, 2003, 16:12: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Captain Kwok

March 31st, 2003, 07:21 AM

I'm not sure if I mentioned in this thread, but the new target date for beta testing is the Last week of April. I have two weeks off between school and full time work, so I will use them most wisely.

Below is a topic that I'm brought up in the Star Trek mod's other forum (That would be here) (http://galileo.spaceports.com/~kazharii/stmod.html):

After discussing with Fyron about his implementation of leaky armor and shields into his Adamant Mod...I realized that some adjustments had to be made in the Star Trek mod. Before I discuss those changes, I though I would explain what are leaky armor and leaky shields in terms of the Star Trek mod.

Leaky armor is armor without the �damaged first� ability. In this case, a hit that strikes the ship�s components does not necessarily hit the armor first and may damage other components like the bridge or engines. However, by increasing the hitpoints per kT of armor and decreasing the hitpoints per kT of other internals, you can increase the probability that damage will hit the armor first but not always. Specifically in the mod, most internal components have about 1 hitpoint per 10kT of structure. Armor can have anywhere from 20 to 50 hitpoints per 10kT and in a typical design represents about 75-85% of the total hitpoints. In essence, this number represents the probability that a hit that strikes the hull will hit the armor first. About 15-25% of the time, another component will be hit. In the Star Trek mod, most internal components have only 1 or 2 hitpoints while weapons can do between 15-100+ hitpoints of damage. However, the likelihood of several internal components being destroyed at one time (as you might think due to their low hitpoints) is not that bad. In fact, during testing today when most armor is intact, only the odd hit ever took out more than one internal. The adjustments I made were to tweak the hitpoint per kT ratio for all armors to have them in the 75-85% range in most designs. One point though, when your shields and armor are toast, better launch those escape pods!

Leaky shields are regular shields with the �shields from damage� or commonly known as the �crystalline armor� ability from the component that uses it in standard SE4. This ability takes the prescribed amount of damage (the shields from damage amount) from the weapon and channels it back into the shields when any component takes damage. This creates �leaky� shields when they are low enough to let damage pass through. For example, shields are at 50 with a total of 75 in crystalline ability before taking 100 damage points. The shields would drop to 0, 50 damage points would be done to the hull, and then the shields would charge back to 50 points. Of course, damage that squeaks by the shields might end up leaking through the armor and damaging other components in which Suicide Junkie refers to as the �exploding panel� effect. I adjusted some of the values for the shields at lower levels to make them worthwhile, as their shield point levels were too low. I think more testing is going to be needed to determine the best crystalline armor amounts for balance.

Overall, these two items combine to create far more interesting ship battles. A few lucky strikes can really cause chaos or turn the tables on any force. It should get more interesting once the mod is ready for real testing.

[ March 31, 2003, 12:54: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Atrocities

March 31st, 2003, 07:28 AM

Thank you for posting this information. I had wondered how you were going to modify them for use in the ST mod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Suicide Junkie

April 1st, 2003, 02:31 AM

For example, shields are at 50 with a total of 75 in crystalline ability before taking 100 damage points. The shields would drop to 0, 50 damage points would be done to the hull, and then the shields would charge back to 75 points. That Last number should be 50, since the shields get boosted only by the 50 that hits the hull, not the maximum potential (75) of the generator.

jimbob

April 6th, 2003, 07:37 AM

Hey Kapitan Kwok:

I'm posting here because I had a hard time logging in over at STAR TREK FORUM (sorry, can't change fonts here so the caps looked like ST letters http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

Anyhoo, just wondering about the description of construction yards.

i) there are 5 levels, but the description states that they can repair 10 components per turn. First, isn't 10 components/turn a little much? (I don't know, cause I haven't seen the size of armor etc in a game yet, so maybe it isn't excessive). And is that 10 repairs per turn for all levels (level I and V are equal) or does that ramp up with increasing levels?

ii) why is there a discrepancy between how much minerals can be built per turn vs organics and radioactives? I assume it's for play balance, but again, just sitting here wondering http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Cheers, great work,
jimbob

Captain Kwok

April 6th, 2003, 09:28 AM

All levels of Space Yards can repair 10 comps per turn. It's mostly the result of smaller armor and shield components, plus their leaky effects, which lead to a lot more damaged components. There are also a number of other repair options from engineering to repair bays to replicators. I was also going to add a repair component for vehicles only, so you could make repair pods (treated as fighters) but I'm not sure if that works since I haven't tested it and I can't remember the results of the thread concerning this kind of thing a few months back.

The building rates are designed to proportionally reflect the costs of a typical ship. So basically, all three resources are being used to build the ship throughout its build time. You may also noticed that radioactives extraction rates are also much lower. That is to reflect their nature as 'exotic' elements. I mentioned a few of these items under features at the website, I think.

Sometimes Fyron's forums are slow to load or not working, but oh well. I prefer using them simply because we can create individual topics, so things don't get lost as easily as they do in this thread.

Fyron

April 7th, 2003, 07:01 AM

The high numbers of damaged comps should take a while to repair. That is the other half of using leaky armor and shields. Having the SYs and Repair Bays repairing a lot more comps removes the space junk aspect of leakiness. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I was also going to add a repair component for vehicles only, so you could make repair pods (treated as fighters) but I'm not sure if that works since I haven't tested it and I can't remember the results of the thread concerning this kind of thing a few months back.
It definitely works. The units can use repair components just fine, and they repair ships just like a repair bay does.

[ April 07, 2003, 06:02: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]