AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent

[JLS]

>~~~~~~AI CAMPAIGN -NEW-v4.191a AIC ~~~~~~<

Optimized for Solitaire Play!
[i]With or without all Warp points, Finite resources, same starts and Simultaneous movement

~~~ CLICK ON &gt;&gt;&gt; (((&gt; <font color="green"> AI CAMPAIGN v4.191 </font> &lt;))) (http://www.johnlsullivan.net) &lt;&lt;&lt; To Get ~~~

For the most resent Posts: Please view Last Page.
================================================== =======
Version History for AI Campaign v4.191 ~ June 18, 2004
================================================== =======

Updated for SPACE EMPIRES IV newest Version ~(v1.91)

CONCEPTUAL:
AI Players Economic and Infrastructure delayed.
AI Balance adjusted to be little more advantages towards the Human Players.

COMPONENTS:
Removed Limits on most Armor ~ PTF
Smaller Version of Leaky Armor ~ SJ
Revised Psychic Racial Trait ~ QB

RACEs:
FRACTALIAN RACE STYLE ~ Ed Kolis
Neutral Images from Custom Race Portraits at jdtaylor.home.mindspring.com

TECH:
Shuffled and added a few.

VEHICALS:
Lowered Starliner Costs 40 to 60% ~ Oleg

QUAD MAPs:
Default {Starter map} ~ Fyrons FQM

NOTES:
Many tweaks and a few surprises

================================

Features Fyron’s FQM add-on ~Fyron, Pathfinder, QB

CONCEPTUAL:
Reduced Repair Component upkeep for Multiplayer option


COMPONENTS:
Improved accuracy for many (high level) beam and torpedo weapons ~Oleg, GLV
Medical Teams II at Med tech 1 ~Oleg
Added (tiny) Planet creator ~QB

Gosho Mladenoff suggested Devnull additions:
Sprint Missile ~Rollo and Devnull Mod, GM
Missile Pods ~Rollo and Devnull Mod, GM
Heavy Bombardment Missile ~Rollo and Devnull Mod, GM

TECH:
Raised Stellar Manipulations Tech Cost
Reduced Colonizer Tech Research ~QB
Added External Mount Missile Weapons ~GM, Rollo

VEHICALS:
Orbital Resource extraction Station


NOTES:
Many much improved item descriptions ~Deccan
Human Player Empire files for all races.
AI Player Empires files are in the Extras folder.
Orbital Resource Station will probably be just in Multiplayer
Resupply Base although unlikely, also may be moved to multiplayer
Most AI general files completed.
Some beta AI player tweaks for FQM add-on.

Gosho Mladenoff is presently testing new AIC designs that may be ready for the next release. Other players are contributing new Components and Facility designs. We will hold of on the AI design and research tweaks until the new designs are finished and tested.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

((&gt; ALL AIC DOWNLOADS &lt;)) (http://www.johnlsullivan.net)

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = [/QB][/QUOTE]

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
AIC v4.01
Features Alneyan’s v1 Characteristics Values.

Conceptual:
-NEW- Multiplayer Module
Higher values for Research and Mineral Resource Facilities for Multiplayer games.

Facilities:
Planet Lore revised for the Organic Races ~Oleg, GLV
Refining and Agrarian Urban Structures revised ~Oleg, GLV
Revised some facilities costs.
-NEW- additional Multiplayer Facilities.
Raised most Research Facility levels.
Tweaked some facilities

Components:
-New- Multiplayer Repair Bay Compartment of 8.
Revised Repair Bay Compartments.
Reduced Open Warp costs ~GLV, Alneyan
Reduced Create Planet Costs ~QB
AI Minesweeping Components Ability at Se4 5 max
Added Small Meson BLaster Fighter Weapon ~Oleg
Added Small Graviton Beam Weapon ~Oleg
Revised some Component costs.

TECH:
-NEW - Multiplay

Vehicles:
Freighter was the Small StarLiner.
Medium StarLiner is available with ship Const.2 ~Oleg
Large StarLiner will also appear earlier in your game now.
Fast Colonizers go a little faster ~GLV
Resupply Space Station fuel storage raised to 20kt.

Events:
Ship-moved is now a CAT event and has been removed from some Default zips ~Oleg

Notes:

Tweaked AI
Designs names have been added to Dsnames folder ~Clark
Added Fyrons http://dna.spaceempires.net/ shortcut for many more design names.

Reduced Asteroid resource values for Non-Finite Games ~Oleg

Next AIC Version will features Pathfinders FQM add-on with up-dated AI Players that can deal with the most industrious astro-miner

Future AI Campaign Versions to include Deathstalkers AIC Mount Modd, additional AI Player Races and much more.

=================================================

AIC v3.02

Conceptual:
The AI now starts with the ability to build a Planet Engineering type Facility ~Oleg and PTF
The Engineering Culture to a greater degree then the Science Culture AI Players will exploit Planet Utilization sooner then all other AI Races ~Compromise
It takes much longer for the AI to replace lost Ships, in all AI bonus games.
Reduced the effects as much as 50% for AI Players individual Ship Mine Sweeping Abilities ~Mottlee
Intel Projects have less PreReqs For the Human Player ~SunDev, GLV and QB

Facilities:
Revised Planet Utilization, now easier and faster to Convert an Atmosphere for the Human Players.

Vehicles:
Further improved the smaller War Ship Maneuverability modifiers for the Human Player.
Scout, escort, frigate, and possibly the destroyer may have a creditable To Hit value; without an early Combat Sensor.

Components:
Satellite Armor Reduced to 5kt with an increase in resistance ~Oleg

Intel Projects:
Revised AI and Human Player Intel Projects less PreReqs For the Human Player.
Fix one of the AI Projects ~SunDevil
Revised some descriptions for Intel Projects ~GLV

Quadrant Maps:

Revised some Images and added some more abilities for your Centurion System ~Oleg
Added a few special items for the systems.

Interface:
Reorganized Traits Menu Option 1 is back to best Planet. (v3.02 Complete Only)
Strategic Fighters are now found with the Multiplayer Trait options. (v3.02 Complete Only)

Notes:
AI players Atmospheric Converters are in Beta
AI Troops vs. Human Troops are in Beta
AI Psychic Intel File is in Beta

----------------
DOWNLOADS

AIC Version 3.02 Update files only.
Updates AIC 3.00 Versions, Only .

AIC v3.02 update, will NOT break existing v3.xx saved games)

-----

Please download AI Campaign v3.02 Complete if you never received your copy of – AI Campaign.

LINK &gt; AIC v3.02 &lt; (http://www.johnlsullivan.net/)

~
In simultaneous games: After Updating or Patching, it is recommended that you log into the Host and then end your turn. The game will start you right were you left off. Please check your designs and if they are fine, you are good to go!
~

================================================
AIC v3.01a
Intel Projects:
Expanded the Psychic Intel Projects, some available at Psychic Studies level one.
Revised AI and Human Player Intel Projects.

Quadrant Maps:
Added more Centurion Systems.
Revised most Quadrant Maps to be a little more AI friendly.
Added a few special items for the systems.
Added a few more Moons to the Systems

Interface:
Reorganized quadrant menu.

Conceptual:
This update further reduces AI early expansion, in most none to Low bonus games.
Reduced AI starting Intel points 25%.
Restructured Resource Storage for Human Players.

Facilities:
Added Crystalline (RAD) Value Improvement Plants ~GLV
Removed the ability for Human Players to build Psychic Meditation Retreats.
Psychic Intelligence Center 1 and 2 levels and all are available with just Psychic Technology.

Vehicles:
Improved the smaller War Ship Maneuverability modifiers for the Human Players.
Added new Medium Star Liner Images to Extras Folder ~GLV

Components:
Lowered Robo-Miners size so extra supply may be installed on Small Transport.
Rad Robos may have Three Per Vehicle now.

Notes:
Starting Empire Point Storage Increased about 33% for all Human Player Races ~Oleg

----------------
DOWNLOADS

AIC Version 3.01 Update files only.
Updates ALL AIC Versions .

AIC v3.01 update, will NOT break existing v3.00 saved games)

-----

Please download AI Campaign v3.01 Complete if you never received your copy.

=====================
AI CAMPAIGN v3.00 UPGRADE
=====================

~now available for download~

Exponentially Game Play increases, AI Bonus Levels, and Strategic Fighters added

Conceptual:
Tripled starting research for the Human Player.
NEW* Strategic Fighter Movement as a (free) trait option and can be removed for multiplayer.
Revised AIC Tactical Fighter Mod to incorporate Strategic Fighters (More equipment can be added).
AI is now less over bearing in None and Low computer Bonus games.
AI sweeps fewer mines in None bonus games. (Human player Mine fields are more effective early)
Metropolis and higher urban centers complete with orbital repair.
Human Players Evolution Increased.
Slowed AI Players Opening game Evolution.
Slightly slowed AI Players Middle Game Evolution.
Increase to the AI Players Late game Evolution.

Vehicles:
New* Large Starliner (To increase games Colony expansions)

Facilities:
Increased research for most Urban Centers.
Decreased construction times for some Urban Centers and Research Facilities.
Easier to Build and upgrade Multiple Levels of deferent types of Urban Centers at the same Time.
New* Added Urban Center level.
New* Racial Cities.
Revised Religious Facilities for multiplayer considerations.
Lowered Construction Cost for Space Ports.

Components:
Religious Talisman can be placed on a variety of vehicle types.
Resupply Pod fixed ~ QBrigid
NEW* SM 1 Create Small Sized Planet, for the Human Players.
Lowered some additional non-destructive Stellar Manipulations Components Costs.

Interface:
House Keeping near Finished now with most Components and Facilities Organized.
When you scroll thru the design menu, it has a much neater and professional look. Thanks SJ, for the suggestions.

AI Files:
Slight Randomization of a few AI personalities.
I normally do not post any AI specific changes, as not to spoil some surprises.
Changed a few Political accept system AI entries~Sundevil

Notes:
Increased the beginning sy construction rates slightly for new colonies.
Lowered Med Starliners Tech Requirement (enters Game earlier.To increase games Colony expansions)
Lowered research of Computer Techs to se4 default of 50k.
Reduced un-Mothball rate, so too break even is about one year.

Computer Bonus that is set for Default=NONE: AI is a good.
Computer Bonus that is set for Low: AI is a challenge.
Computer Bonus that is set for Medium: AI is Very challenging.
High Computer Bonus. (Recommended For some Multi Human Player Games)
Tweaked most AI Files.

AI Campaign plays very smooth now in LAN multiplayer games, with AIC v3.00.

----------------
DOWNLOADS

Please download AI Campaign v3.00 Complete if you never received your copy.

~~~

AIC Version 3.00 Upgrade files only. (Size; only 315 kb)
Updates ALL AIC Versions .
( Will break existing AIC saved games)

~~~

==========================================
AI CAMPAIGN v2.91 UPGRADE


Conceptual:
Increased the ability for the AI to have a few more ships in the LATE GAME.
Increased over v2.90 for the AI only to warp in No Warp Point Games a few more years.

Facilities:
Added Orbital Repair Ability to General CCs.
Added University of Psychic Studies to the Psychic Culture Center ~ QB.
Added Abilities for the Metropolis and World Cultural Center.
Fixed Typo on the Religious Settlement ~ GLV.

Components:
Fixed Drone Jacketed Engine ~ Fryon.
Fixed Basic LS ~ Fryon
Lowered ALL Sick Bays Medical PreReqs.
Increase the effectiveness of the Religious Talisman.

Interface:
Inhanced Medium Tech Game Starts ~ Designed By Desdinova.
Fixed some typos.

AI Files:
Space Empires; Race AI Complement Completed.
Praetorian Designs ~ GLV
Toltayan Designs ~ GLV
Sallega Designs ~ QB

Disadvatage AI = Ship Yard 2 raised to SY Tech 3
Disadvatage AI = Does not receive Warp Openers at SM 1
Disadvatage AI = It is now somewhat easier to capture some of the AI Ships.
Slight Randomization of a few AI personalities.
I normally do not post any AI specific changes, as not to spoil some surprises.

Notes:
Medium Tech Game Starts ~ Designed By Desdinova.
Allowing the Human and AI players to have and advanced tech start.

Systems have been named after some of those who contributed to AIC. If you wish your named removed, please E-Mail to Sullivan_JohnL@msn.com

----------------
DOWNLOADS

Please download AI Campaign v2.91 Complete if you never received your copy.

~~~

AIC Version 2.91 Upgrade files only. (Size; only 390kb)
Updates ALL AIC Versions .
( Will break existing AIC saved games)

~~~

AIC Version 2.91 Patch files only. (Size; only 390kb)
Updates v2.90 only .
(Will NOT break existing AIC v2.90 saved games)

----------------------------------------------

=====================
AI CAMPAIGN v2.90 UPGRADE

=====================

Conceptual:
NEW* Commercial Income Value assigned on some facilities with AIC Finite Mod.
NEW* Organics are abundant and Radioactive are more rare in the AIC Universe. However all Industrial Space yards always receive priority of goods.
Improved* Finite Friendly (Dual plus) Race Class CCs~ DES
Lowered some AI's income in the AI Balance Mod.
Revised some Imperial Trade Income Values for AIC Finite Economics Mod.
Some revisions in AIC Tactical Fighter Mod.
Lowered Some AI Mine Sweeping Abilities in AIC AI Balance Mod.
Adjusted AI (theoretical traded) Colonizer Modules in AIC AI Balance Mod.
Lowered AI Open Warp distance in AI Balance Mod.
Human Player Evolution speed increased about 10-20% overall.
Added AIC General Trait-Tie Racial Construction to Settlements.

Facilities:
NEW* Racial class Settlements.
NEW* Planet Lore for the Organic Race.
NEW* Religious Culture Center for the Human Player.
Revised Urban Family Progressions and costs.
Added another Nature Shrine Level for Religious Races.
Added more Abilities to all Culture Centers.
Increased level 2 and 3 Research Facilities about 25%.
Lowered Construction cost of Resupply Depot 20%
It is also faster to build a Space Port also about 25%.

Components:
New* Repair Base Station Component's ~ Des and PTF
New* Miniaturized Life Support replacing HLS ~ PTF
New* Fighter Solar Collector ~ LAN
NEW* Engineering Section ~ Krsqk
New* Sick Bay.
New* Basic Crew Quarters.
Added two new early Warp Open Components for Human Players.
Extra levels for the Combat Bridge ~ GLV
Revised some Fighter Weapons and Tech Requirements ~ GLV
Added Fighter shield level with all revised sizes ~ Oleg
Added Fighter Armor ~ Oleg
Revised SYS Component Repair ~ PTF
Revised Some Structure KT Sizes ~ PTF
Gestation Vat Fix ~ PTF
Medium Tech Starts Fix ~ Des
ECM VII fix ~Des
Lowered Supplemental Colonizer Module size.
Drone Launcher cargo increased.
Lowered cost for Ring and Sphere World as well as most productive SM Components.
Revised Robo-Mining Base and Ship Mining Vessels; More Profitable.

Interface:
House Keeping near Finished now with most Components and Facilities Organized.
When you scroll thru the design menu, it has a much neater and professional look. Thanks SJ, for the suggestions.

AI Files:
Slight Randomization of a few AI personalities.

Notes:
No Warp style games optimized:
Reduced Sizes and Costs on some Stellar Manipulation Components.
Planetary Engineering back to se4 default tech tree.
The added research 25% expedites research time some what faster for No warp or isolated games .
Revised some AI Stellar Manipulation techniques.
Tweaked AI Research and Const Vehicle Files. (Most races are staggered, they all do not open warps at or near the same time actually some are very late openers now)
Two new Warp Open Components starting at SM Tech ONE. Opens you up to all the Systems with in your Home Cluster (6-12 systems) when Playing either Galaxies map. SM 3 will get you to the next Cluster. Note: AI initially warps its original home Cluster as well.
~~
Lowered Infantry structure in the attempt to give Troop vehicles a prominent role in combat and to increase the effectiveness of standard orbital bombardment in AIC. Cheap Militia type Infantry now die or FLEE quicker and Troop Vehicles with Armor Stand their Ground far more valiantly. Balance tips and suggestions are much welcomed here.
~~
I would like to thank {PTF} for the many hours of Play Testing and Suggestion with all AIC and especially No Warp Style optimization for AIC.

=======================================
=======================================
AI Campaign UPDATE 2.02
==================

Included with Upgrade:

Slowed AI Players starting progress.
Large Star Liner added room for Solar Collectors :~ Thanks, Desdinova.
Temporal BSY Tree :~Thanks desdinova
Mining Complex same family upgrade from a mining Colony Facility : ~Thanks, GLV.
Fast Colonizers : ~Thanks GLV
Temporal Base Yards adjusted : ~Thanks GLV.
Space Yard Tech: Early Tech cost lowered: ~Thanks LAN,PTF.
Revised Mining OutPosts and Organic Domes. : ~Thanks LAN
Improved Combat to-hit Sats : ~Thanks LAN
Improved Fighter weapons : ~Thanks LAN
Reduced AI Mega Evil : ~Thanks Oleg
Improved Fighter Shields : ~Thanks Oleg
Turreted Cannons lowered and only targets Fighters now :~ Thanks, Oleg
AI Tweaks (No Warp Games &amp; Finite) :~ Many thanks to PsychoTechFreak for Time, Effort and Help with SE4batch tester.
Major Balance Tweaks for Finite play :~Thanks PsychoTechFreak,GLV,LAN
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DOWNLOADS

AIC Version 2.02 files only . (size 224kb)Updates ALL AIC Versions. (Will break existing games)

~

Note: PATCH v2.02p (size 225kb) is for v2.01 only.
The top line in the Components File should read AIC v2.01, and not followed by a p; see example below &lt;img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /&gt;
~
If you just patched the original release (check top line in the Components File AIC v2.01p) , then this patch may break current game in progress.
With either patch, when your game is finished it is recommended you update AI Campaign with the AIC Version 2.02 files only download. (size 224kb)

=======================================
=======================================

AI Campaign Update; Version 201

If you are currently have a AIC game in progress; download just AIC Patch 201p
Will NOT break existing AIC games.
(recommended to backup the AICampaign Sub Directory)
~~~
If you have already downloaded AI Campaign and want updated files(5) prior to starting a new AIC game:
AIC file update v201 this will break an existing AIC Game.

Over write with winzip or Copy Paste c:\unzipped\AICampaign\data\ Components.txt and Facility.Txt to its appropriate SE4 gold\AICampaign\Data sub folder.

Note in Simultaneous games:
After patch installed (resume) your AIC game and (log in under host) End turn.
That’s it you are were you left off!!!
If your Ship and Unit designs are fine; your good to go!

Version 2.01
1:~ System Gravitational Shield facility (human tech 2 to 1)
2:~ Nature Shrine weak (enhanced slightly)
3:~ Fighter Torpedo Weapon Families (different families)
4:~ Tweaked AI to better utilize Computer Players Bonus options! (AI little easier; AI slower now to develop at Computer Player Bonus:` NONE` raise for desired challenge).
5:~ "Population Life Support Module”, "CDM" listed twice as abilities.
6:~ Ionic Shield Generators (Obsolete)
7:~ Removed Cargo of 2 from most Components!
8:~ Lowered Point-Defense on the Turret Cannons and Armed Cockpit.
9:~ Added higher Levels to Talisman tops at 50%
10:~ Space Yard Facility cost lowered substantially. Inline with SE4 Base.
11:~ Research increased slightly for Colonial Communities.
12:~ Revised Pre-reqs for Recourse Sats.
13:~ Resource Dome Compartment (reduced space taken)
14:~ Reduction in production for Lower level OutPosts, Stations and Organic Domes.
15:~ Added Organic Replicant Center
16:~ Returned 3 early levels of Gestation Vats@ 1-2-3 Revised levels 4-6 (only in update)
Tidied up some Text and Descriptions.
Thanks SJ, Oleg, SLG and Emails for their suggestion.

Please Click (((&gt;AI Campaign&lt;))) below for Patch, updated files or Complete Version 201.

&lt;small&gt;[ July 24, 2004, 17:19: Message edited by: JLS ]&lt;/small&gt;

[oleg]

Just an idle thought : Suppose we start a game with "team mode" - AI vs. humans. AFAIK - I mignt be horrible wrong here ! , this options switch on MEE flag on humans and AI reacts accordingly to MEE settings in AI_anger.txt files.

What if you tweek these settings that some AI will be very hostile to humans but others not, according to culture/demeanor settings in AI_general.txt files ?

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:
Just an idle thought : Suppose we start a game with "team mode" - AI vs. humans. AFAIK - I mignt be horrible wrong here ! , this options switch on MEE flag on humans and AI reacts accordingly to MEE settings in AI_anger.txt files.

What if you tweek these settings that some AI will be very hostile to humans but others not, according to culture/demeanor settings in AI_general.txt files ?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sounds like a neat Idea, but the humans team will win via tech trading amongst each other in the end! But the AI should do fine for a few centuries. I hope it is not me; who starts near any warring AI.

[ March 01, 2003, 03:31: Message edited by: JLS ]

[oleg]

Originally posted by JLS:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by oleg:
Just an idle thought : Suppose we start a game with "team mode" - AI vs. humans. AFAIK - I mignt be horrible wrong here ! , this options switch on MEE flag on humans and AI reacts accordingly to MEE settings in AI_anger.txt files.

What if you tweek these settings that some AI will be very hostile to humans but others not, according to culture/demeanor settings in AI_general.txt files ?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sounds like a neat Idea, but the humans team will win via tech trading amongst each other in the end! But the AI should do fine for a few centuries. I hope it is not me; who start near any warring AI.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, but the basic idea of the mod is a better challange for solo play http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif You start as one human warrior and hostile forces of SEIV universe as long as you chose "team mode"

It is optional of course. If you do not select it, the game goes just like there were no changes in AI files ! (well, untill someone hits MEE)

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:
Yes, but the basic idea of the mod is a better challange for solo play http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif You start as one human warrior and hostile forces of SEIV universe as long as you chose "team mode"

It is optional of course. If you do not select it, the game goes just like there were no changes in AI files ! (well, untill someone hits MEE)<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In AI Campaign I wanted to address some AI issues in regards to better handling mine fields, point to point re-supply, faster ship training, sector scanning, Stellar manipulations, combating Plagues, Planetary weapons and resource colony selection and to help the AI better handle finite play so in the end the AI may be more challenging.
Yes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
When I say "Optimized for Solitaire and Simultaneous play" this also means that Colonizers and Star liners are at the Lowest KT possible (AIC both under 110kt). So the AI won’t think the they are Destroyers, cruisers or even Base Ships and with the many Star liners and Colonizers that are built in a SE4 games and in regards to (score percentage) in AI Diplomacy with AIC it may be better represented.
In Version 1.78 and I still think it applies now as well in 1.84, when a ship is over 500 or is it 600 kt the AI won’t start to build it until after 49 turns has passed in a simultaneous, LAN, or IP game.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ March 01, 2003, 04:51: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Although AI Campaign does play multiplayer, I feel Peters 'Parent' Proportions plays Multiplayer smoother and faster. Proportions has been my favorite game since I found it on the SE4 gold CD when it first hit the market. That is why I asked Peter if I could use it for AI Balances interface; back in May 2002.
Matter a fact Peter was extremely helpful with the Interfaceing, between the scores of Emails I have.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I learned a lot from Peter in this time, and I am proud that I was part of Starliner cargo, Combined facilities, Abbidon and Cue Cappa in Proportions; And I hope to continue on the Proportions team http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Well it ggetting late here on the East Coast,I best turn in; night Oleg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

[ March 01, 2003, 04:59: Message edited by: JLS ]

[QBrigid]

I am downloading the patch now. I'll let you know what I think:) So far the game is great!

[JLS]

Good mourning Oleg,
When do you sleep http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[oleg]

Thanks ! I went to bed at 6 am and wake up 1 pm. Not that bad http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif It is saturday after all !

I'm playing your updated mod now.

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:

I'm playing your updated mod now.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, with the involvement you put into it thus far, I think it is Our Mod.
A lot of this Update has your name all over it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 01, 2003, 14:39: Message edited by: JLS ]

[oleg]

It might be a good idea to put a warning: do not build ringworld in you home system http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Not that it will happen soon given the pace of the game. Or am I wrong and artificial planet counts as a star ?

[JLS]

Absolutely, if you want to build Ships or Bases at a faster pace from a (Base Yard Component or a SYS) it is wise to Research Shipyards and retrofit up. I like to go to SY tech 2 somewhat early (Definitely if war is looming) and I am not playing Temporal. But by the time I get Gravity Plates, Cables and Generators; I am usually prepared at a Much higher ship yard and SYS level.

[ March 01, 2003, 15:24: Message edited by: JLS ]

[HercMighty]

JLS are you there?

[JLS]

Originally posted by HercMighty:
JLS are you there?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi, HercMighty. I am now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[HercMighty]

I had sent you an email today about your mod did you get it?

[JLS]

Originally posted by HercMighty:
I had sent you an email today about your mod did you get it?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry, I just checked it now!
Your reply is on the way.

[HercMighty]

Thank you.

[Gryphin]

JLS, Your link gives:
"You are not authorized to view this page"
Looks like a great idea for a mod.

[JLS]

Originally posted by Gryphin:
JLS, Your link gives:
"You are not authorized to view this page"
Looks like a great idea for a mod.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Link (((>AI Campaign<))) is not working for you? Thanks, I will check into it, now !!!

Is any one else haveing a problem?

[JLS]

Gryphin,
It should be all set, the problem may have occurred do the fact you are so far away from the server http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Or it knows your from MA. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ March 01, 2003, 16:28: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

I DL patch this morning with no problem.

When I upgrade from Level III Mining Facility to Mining Level IV (Complex) it does not show up in upgrades?

Every thing else is going GREAT!!!

FYI: Keep an eye on your Outpost mining, it doesn't tell you just ran out of money http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The Temporal Base Space Yards are great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[ March 02, 2003, 14:59: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
I DL patch this mourning with no problem.

When I upgrade from Level III Mining Facility to Mining Level IV (Complex) it does not show up in upgrades?

Every thing else is going GREAT!!!

FYI: Keep an eye on your Outpost mining, it doesn't tell you just ran out of money http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Glad to here it on the Download.
Yip, we may raise the Numeral to 4 for that Complex.
Those Asteroids can empty quick.

You will have no problem building the Complex though. It is still being deciding weather to keep as a Separate facility or a Mining Upgrade? I am leaning towards upgrade..

What do you think?

[ March 01, 2003, 19:38: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

i hate this mod. i hate it, i hate it, i hate it.
i don't get any sleep, i barely eat, and i neglected to go to work one day (i admit i had some errands to do, but when i finished them i just started playing this mod again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ).
seriously, i like really enjoy this mod. its fun not knowing the tech tree so i have to guess at what tech to research and if it will benefit me in the near future or not. trying to figure out the new components and facilities (without going in and reading the text files). you have put together a very fun mod. keep up the good work.

edit: question on spelling. should it be developeing world as you have it or developing world?

[ March 01, 2003, 19:27: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[Gryphin]

JLS it works now and I did download it. I'm afraid to play. Based on the reviews I might get into more trouble with Pooh Star. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:
Just an idle thought : Suppose we start a game with "team mode" - AI vs. humans. AFAIK - I mignt be horrible wrong here ! , this options switch on MEE flag on humans and AI reacts accordingly to MEE settings in AI_anger.txt files.

What if you tweek these settings that some AI will be very hostile to humans but others not, according to culture/demeanor settings in AI_general.txt files ?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry Oleg, I should of went to sleep sooner Last night and answered this in the mourning http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I totally misunderstood what you were asking.

The answer is basicly yes, and if you notice the AIC Race Anger files MEE (Mega Evil Empire) has already been scaled for you; in accordance to that races Demeanor.
Example:
Piundon is Violent with Mega Evil Empire := 90
Abbidon is Neutral with Mega Evil Empire := 40
Ulkra-Tal is Serene with Mega Evil Empire := 0
With other races fallowing this scale http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ March 01, 2003, 23:08: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by oleg:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JLS:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by oleg:
Just an idle thought : Suppose we start a game with "team mode" - AI vs. humans. AFAIK - I mignt be horrible wrong here ! , this options switch on MEE flag on humans and AI reacts accordingly to MEE settings in AI_anger.txt files.

What if you tweek these settings that some AI will be very hostile to humans but others not, according to culture/demeanor settings in AI_general.txt files ?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sounds like a neat Idea, but the humans team will win via tech trading amongst each other in the end! But the AI should do fine for a few centuries. I hope it is not me; who start near any warring AI.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, but the basic idea of the mod is a better challange for solo play http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif You start as one human warrior and hostile forces of SEIV universe as long as you chose "team mode"

It is optional of course. If you do not select it, the game goes just like there were no changes in AI files ! (well, untill someone hits MEE)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">MeeeeWeeee still don't understand, but you better AFAIKing not hit MEE http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ March 02, 2003, 00:02: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[JLS]

Thanks for the positive response all, AIC is in infancy and I know we can make it better.

John Sullivan

[QBrigid]

edit: question on spelling. should it be developeing world as you have it or developing world?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, you are correct the spelling should be developing. JLS, for future reference, when adding a suffix to a word the silent 'e' is usually dropped; also 'i' before 'e' except after c...

Your modding of games is great, if you need anymore suggestions modding words just let me know! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[JLS]

Originally posted by QBrigid:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">edit: question on spelling. should it be developeing world as you have it or developing world?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Your modding of games is great, if you need anymore suggestions modding words just let me know! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ok, that would be much appreciated; is it ok that I send you a file to proof read Descriptions aspect and edit some text. I will also send some rules, what editor to use, on what to change and what data can’t be changed...
Would this be a task that you could fit in your schedule, I doubt the largest file would exceed 990kb?

[QBrigid]

Sure, just send me the file, and I'll take care of it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Desdinova]

combined fqmdeluxe with this...setup game with 3 homeworlds...one of my new worlds is a medium ringworld...talk about a major advantage...2 systems over are 2 more ringworlds.

[ March 05, 2003, 07:20: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[Fyron]

Originally posted by desdinova:
combined fqmdeluxe with this...setup game with 3 homeworlds...one of my new worlds is a medium ringworld...talk about a major advantage...2 systems over are 2 more ringworlds.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That should not have happened. I think maybe you merged something wrong, as constructed worlds are not supposed to appear on random maps. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Did you copy the Small Gravity Plating and such over from FQM Deluxe? Did you copy the constructed IDs correctly for the medium RWs?

[Desdinova]

i copied over the following files: planet size, quadrant types, secttype, systemtype and stellar ability types
edit: so what did i not copy over?
atually i am not concerned, i think of this game as if it took place after the fall of civilization. unfortunately one of the other races beat me to one of the other ringworlds.

[ March 05, 2003, 09:06: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[Fyron]

As I said, you need the Small Gravity Plating and such components that are added in FQM Deluxe to build the Small and Medium Ringworlds.

[Desdinova]

thanks, i will do that after this game. reminds me of the stng episode with scotty where they find the dyson sphere. i wonder what other surprises the ancients have left in this map?

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:
combined fqmdeluxe with this...setup game with 3 homeworlds...one of my new worlds is a medium ringworld...talk about a major advantage...2 systems over are 2 more ringworlds.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">FQM is a great mod , however with that said, most DATA files are not combatable for AI Campaign Mod. If you used FQM Data files (as is) in any Non based se4 mod you may have compatibilities issues.

I would be interested in how your game turns out, desdinova http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

For some examples with the below Data files:
RacialTraits: No AI Choices, the game would error from Race general file.
Tech Area: Game would error here as well from Race research calls.
Components: the AI and human players would be unable to gain there specific design calls.
Vehicles file: needed for AI balance mod portion of game, mine sweeping, late game balance. Also required to be unchanged for design calls.
Facility file: is required for Race construction calls.
Most Default_AI_Files same as above applies.
CompEnhancement: some AI balancing
Events: some redundant changes
IntelProjects: some changes
PlanetSize: Required for balance on some race issues.
RepairPriorities: Identical
Settings: Preference but with some required Specific related entry’s.

With StellarAbilityTypes, SystemTypes and QuadrantTypes files in AI Campaign are designed and balanced for Finite play and to help keep the AI ahead of the resource degradation curb in SE4. AI Campaign does not utilize the vast amount of asteroids and moons as FQM does due to the AI’s inabilities to Robo mine asteroids in se4 and the added moons would only encourage the AI to land on more tiny planets not that that is a bad thing; in itself. Their is a balanced amount of Asteroids and moons in AIC currently that will help the Human Player and utilize Robo and Sat mining and hopefully not tip the scales to much in favor of the Human Player versus the Computer opponent.

Now, with that stated http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I would look forward to work with Fryon and it would be an honor to help with the interface of his FQM Mod with AI Campaign.

[ March 05, 2003, 19:37: Message edited by: JLS ]

[HercMighty]

Now this is what I would like to see http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif When I got interested in SE4 these are the two mods that I found the most appealing. If I could get the best of both worlds ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[JLS]

Originally posted by HercMighty:
Now this is what I would like to see http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif When I got interested in SE4 these are the two mods that I found the most appealing. If I could get the best of both worlds ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually the Parent Mod you are playing is Proportions by Peter von Kleinsmid (PvK)
AND I am going to mention this wether PvK wants/likes it or not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Which is in Fact my Favorite Game and I encourage you to play especially if you go Multiplayer with only a few to No AI Computer players.

Proportions Web Site (http://www.latibulum.com/pvk/proportions)

What AI Campaign does is add a series of my Mods to Proportions 2.52:

AI BALANCE MOD
TACTICAL FIGHTER MOD
FINITE ECONOMICS MOD
MULTIPLAYER LADDER HANDICAP MOD

AI Campaign is basicly the Sum of above then optimized for Solitaire Play, Simultaneous Play, and Finite resources. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ March 06, 2003, 00:36: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Ceyan]

... is the AIC mod meant to be stand-alone or used with the Proportions mod?

[JLS]

AI Campaign is a stand-alone model.

This introduces abilities for the AI player and Human Player with the Mods described below…
Created specifically for a more challenging AI. AI balance allows the AI and Human Players to have some specific Components, Vehicles, and Abilities. Some examples are: the AI better handles mines now, point to point re-supply, faster ship training, sector scanning, Stellar manipulations, combating Plagues to name a few.

Finite modifications: helps the AI better handle finite play and will enhance greatly the value of building Towns and Cities in AI Campaign, and Introduces Imperial Trade, trade center Facility and Asteroid Resource Domes.

Tactical Fighter modifications: Fighters now move in Tactical combat only. On the Strategic map, when launched over a planet or any sector, they remain on combat patrol for that sector until recovered by a Carrier or your planet. This makes for some interesting strategies and designs.

[ March 06, 2003, 03:45: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Ceyan]

Thanks, I figured it was a stand-alone from everything I'd read about it, but that Last post sounded like it might have been some sort of add-on.

[JLS]

Yea, Ceyan
Its seems every response requiring a descriptions of AIC sounds like an advertisement so I tried to keep it short in the post you read! My fault… Basically I used proportions as a platform for my Mods. Which does help the AI in SE4 significantly as it states and still has more potential with updates to come...

Tactical Fighter mod is getting mix reviews for every player that loves it there is a player that is not comfortable with it, so it may be removed from AI Campaign and Re-released as an optional Add on MOD. I am going to wait a month or two as players may just need to get acclimated to the concept. And we fine tune it some more.

[ March 06, 2003, 05:18: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

JLS,
one change i would like is to the large starliner. it is only 95kt and i think 100kt would be better. reason i say this is at 95kt it is unable to hold a solar collector or supply storage. what i am putting on it is bridge, 2 ls, 1 crew, 3 engines that takes up 80kt. the remain 15kt is not enough.

[ March 10, 2003, 19:35: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:
JLS,
one change i would like is to the large starliner. it is only 95kt and i think 100kt would be better. reason i say this is at 95kt it is unable to hold a solar collector or supply storage. what i am putting on it is bridge, 2 ls, 1 crew, 3 engines that takes up 80kt. the remain 15kt is not enough.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good Point, I will take care of it!

Thanks, desdinova http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[JLS]

These are a few upgrades in the Next AI Campaign Update 2.02
============================================

Revised Mining OutPosts and Organic Domes.
Mining Complex same family upgrade from a mining Colony Facility:~Thanks, Grand Lord Vito.
Temporal Base Yards and Base yards cost adjusted: ~Thanks Grand Lord Vito.
Space Yard Tech: Early Tech cost lowered: ~Thanks, Forum feed back.
Large Star Liner needs room for Solar Collector:~ Thanks, Desdinova.
Increased Fighter Beam weapons Slightly: ~Thanks LAN
AI FINITE Tweaks:~ Many thanks for Time, Effort and Help of PsychoTechFreak tests with SE4batch tester.

Latest Additions (See edit date & time Stamp)

[ March 17, 2003, 19:43: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

JLS,
quesion about the tech tree. are there gaps in techlevels where nothing is gained for 2 or more levels in certain techs, or am i just missing required techs in something else. an example would be advanced design techniques. i have level 5 and didnt get anything and when i look at level 6 it shows nothing available. also going to level 3 in military science and temporal studies shows nothing new available. (i am trying to avoid going in and reading the text files to learn the mod, i want to play this mod thru without "cheating". well other than starting off with a ringworld as one of my starting planets due to a mistake on my part).

edit: one bad part to the mistake is i am MEE. all my construction on homeworlds is going to ships just to blockade the 4 starsystems i control. but my research and intel points are keeping me ahead of the other races so i seem to be ok for now.

edit 2: plus my planets are now 0% resources since playing finite resources, if it wasnt for the resources generated by the culture centers i would be dead by now (again). i have reloaded this game from the beginning 4 times now. (finite resources suck, but i will defeat them yet, just can no longer create super mining stations in your mod so having to find another way)

[ March 14, 2003, 07:19: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[PsychoTechFreak]

Originally posted by desdinova:
edit 2: plus my planets are now 0% resources since playing finite resources, if it wasnt for the resources generated by the culture centers i would be dead by now (again). i have reloaded this game from the beginning 4 times now. (finite resources suck, but i will defeat them yet, just can no longer create super mining stations in your mod so having to find another way)<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is impossible to compensate the mineral sucking CCs unless you don't want to modify the starting resources to something like >10M and you research straight forward to value improvement plants. Even then, you have to scrap CCs in order to provide facility slots for some stacking value improvement plants. They have to be built as early as possible, because the value improvement is taken percentage-wise from the remaining resources. If they are down or near 0, there is no chance to get out of the shortage.

Proposal, for finite resources ONLY: CC's should have the ability of mineral value improvement, at least 1% (which is stacking with the other CC's). This would postpone the problem, but would not solve it.

[Desdinova]

JLS,
the following spaceship design techs were automatically given at level 1 instead of level 0. large, heavy and massive. however i did have to research baseship. should they all be level 0 thus making us actually research them.

[JLS]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:

It is impossible to compensate the mineral sucking CCs
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed.
However, in AIC; Imperial Trade, truly does compensate with a Minimum income for Planets that have a Cultural Center and other Urban Centers (Communities, Cities, etc.) thru out the intire Finite game, for the Human Players! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~

you research straight forward to value improvement plants. Even then, you have to scrap CCs in order to provide facility slots for some stacking value improvement plants.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed, Value Improvement Plants is a good strategy; to win a Finite game.

However, the CCs already have a Resupply and Space Dock fundamentally built in. (please Right Click the first Cultural Center).

With that said.
You will have three facilities that are non-CCs to scrap to make room for additional structures on your Home World. So scraping CCs, is not really necessary!!!

The first two scrapes are a no brainier,

The third being the HW Space Yard, you really need to weight the benefits. (Depends on how many Base yards I have now. My fleet is about as large as near future income allows, with many other equations that must be weighed; as it applies to the current possibilities you are dealing with.)…

It also may not be advantageous playing a Natural Merchant or Worker in a Finite game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

But you as a Player, makes the decision and choices in this game, and every new game; the path you want http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
~

They have to be built as early as possible, because the value improvement is taken percentage-wise from the remaining resources.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed,
If Planetary Engineering path, is your decision then you must stay focused, because Finite Play is very unforgiving http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif


Proposal, for finite resources ONLY: CC's should have the ability of mineral value improvement
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">By the designer giving (value improvement) a possible wining Strategy; to the Start of all games;
It takes a choice away from the Player and Limits a Peaceful path to Victory http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 14, 2003, 16:06: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:
JLS,
the following spaceship design techs were automatically given at level 1 instead of level 0. large, heavy and massive. however i did have to research baseship. should they all be level 0 thus making us actually research them.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Opps, there it is http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

This is that randomizer thing, I was telling you about earlier. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~
This is normal and Yes, you will have to research Base Ship Design; in this AIC game Version!
As you can see it is not to Big of a cost at this projected level. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
~
It sounds to me, you are doing Excellent in your AIC game!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 14, 2003, 14:15: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:

JLS,
quesion about the tech tree. are there gaps in techlevels where nothing is gained for 2 or more levels in certain techs, or am i just missing required techs in something else. an example would be advanced design techniques. i have level 5 and didnt get anything and when i look at level 6 it shows nothing available. also going to level 3 in military science and temporal studies shows nothing new available. (i am trying to avoid going in and reading the text files to learn the mod, i want to play this mod thru without "cheating". well other than starting off with a ringworld as one of my starting planets due to a mistake on my part).
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, most every tech tree is expanded; some with plus one tech, others with a few cross pre-reqs. This is to show some uncertainty in the way of research, ‘not all that is invested will bear fruit.’ ( However, right click on techs that offer NONE or where you want to go(and there may be a hint!),
This was very controversial with the LAN group that tested AIC , the first time. When they accepted it, I revised the tech tree a little and they really like it, not knowing again the best research course, This went on with every AIC upgrade that they tested.
It added something new and challenging that kept their interest, (just a little more)!
I did the same with some of the AI personality’s…

I may continue this slight randomizer: (research and AI personality) a little, with future AI Campaign upgrades.
(an AI (gaoap) setting to 18% from 15%) will make a slight difference in your next game, with some AI’s diplomacy!

“not exactly knowing what seed, will bear the best fruit”.!
Of coarse all, with in some reason!
~

edit: one bad part to the mistake is i am MEE. all my construction on homeworlds is going to ships just to blockade the 4 starsystems i control. but my research and intel points are keeping me ahead of the other races so i seem to be ok for now.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Glad to see you are doing fine in those areas http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

What turn are you in?
~

edit 2: plus my planets are now 0% resources since playing finite resources, if it wasnt for the resources generated by the culture centers i would be dead by now (again). i have reloaded this game from the beginning 4 times now. (finite resources suck, but i will defeat them yet, just can no longer create super mining stations in your mod so having to find another way)
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree, Finite is tough and requires a lot of economics.

Thanks, you are right if it wasn’t for Imperial Trade on Culture Centers and other Urban Centers (Communities, Cities, etc.) it may be totally impossible.
Actually, in a Finite game “super mining Complexes” will just drain your resources even faster.

Some keys to success is asteroids mining with Out Posts, Organic Domes and Refining Stations!
All Planetary Systems should have at least one asteroid field, all Sparse Planetary Systems have much more Asteroid fields.

There are the familiar Asteroid Belts, but they may not be in every cluster and in a Finite game these belts, are worth defending and most certainly going to war for http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

“For those who control the Spice, control the Universe”

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 14, 2003, 14:20: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

at work i am on turn 2047.1...also noticed that shield generators 4,5,6 and phased shield generators 2,3,4 are all listed in ship design screen even with list only latest available option on.
at home i havent played for a while.

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:
at work i am on turn 2047.1...also noticed that shield generators 4,5,6 and phased shield generators 2,3,4 are all listed in ship design screen even with list only latest available option on.
at home i havent played for a while.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks,
I will look into it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Grand Lord Vito]

When I am finished with the game I have going now, where I am playing the diplomat, my next game, I want to play Finite, it looks like a real challenge and I am an accountant, so by what I have read, lets see how I do.

Can you look at Ablative armour, when that upgrades designs to 6 ok, but it showed 4 in componant design.

Now, it looks fine 1-6 ???

[JLS]

I look forward to the conclusion of the infinite game you have going now.

I received your 781 turn game file. Thank You.

Why have you not explored the Eastern half of the Quadrant?

When and how do you plan on making your move to solidify your position and to strike one of the AI players, I noticed that Drushocka shows no great affection towards you?

~
Starting Monday the Local LAN group and I are starting a new FINITE game, to look at some balance Issues, so if you can hold off your Solo Finite game until after next week, I could sure utilize your expertise and input if any changes are made.

~

I will also look into Ablative, please Email me on exactly what you observed in the Design Component available for use scroll?

Thanks

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 16, 2003, 17:02: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:
noticed that shield generators 4,5,6 and phased shield generators 2,3,4 are all listed in ship design screen even with list only latest available option on.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry, I did not reply sooner, desdinova.

The shields are staggered to help the AI choose the best available, I will tinker with the only latest available option; so others may be hidden.

Thanks for the Heads Up.

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 16, 2003, 17:08: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

ok, that makes since, i can see why the ai would need the different ones, i also noticed that about the ecm. i just noticed that the size of the ecm increases once certain levels are researched and it is a good thing that they are listed seperately as a destroyer cannot really hold the larger ones and still carry sufficient weapons. i like that it lets the larger ships help offset their penalties by giving components that they can carry but smaller ships wont necessary have room for. that armored structure is great, allows ships to take more punishment. but the increased minerals, and thus maintenance costs, i noticed nearly bankrupted me until i caught on. a destroyer with 5 of the ultra armored structure level 2 and the rest of the components costs over 10,000 minerals.
i really need to manage my fleets and resources better. (just what i need a game that reminds me how bad i am at resource management in reality http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

edit. just to see how the tech looks at higher levels i have started a game with all the tech and have a few questions.
1. starbase baseyard V has constuction capability of 2000 per turn but temporal baseyard III only has capability of 1500. since temporal baseyard 3 is the most advanced tech it is the one that shows when i use show only latest. thus we actually lose out on this.
2. shield generator 1 is 30k but sg 2 and above are 40kg, this is also true in the basic game, thus when upgrading ships i have to remove components to get the benefit of level 2. can either level one be change to 40kg or the others changed to 30kt?
3. point defense ship mounts are larger than small ship mounts but do less damage. is the point defense supposed to be a smaller mount than the small ship mount? edit: i guess it could be larger to take into account the extra targeting capabilities the pt def mod, as it is +40 to hit where as the small ship mount is only +10.

[ March 17, 2003, 06:19: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[JLS]

desdinova:
Armor Structure is Based from SE4 and refined in Proportions.
PvK, if I am not mistaken is paving the way in all Armor categories and with AWESOME results! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Yes, high level Armor; can do a number on the AI as well!
~~~

1.starbase baseyard V has constuction capability of 2000 per turn but temporal baseyard III only has capability of 1500. since temporal baseyard 3 is the most advanced tech it is the one that shows when i use show only latest. thus we actually lose out on this.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">True, maximum effort in base yards has a higher return for all players then temporals highest base yard output.

One reason is that Temporal Technology yields not only the traditional facilities but will present Temporal Yards in the normal course of the Temporal research path.

I felt that if any Player wanted to make a maximum effort in ship yard construction, that Player should be rewarded with the highest construction output for BSYs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~

2. shield generator 1 is 30k but sg 2 and above are 40kg, this is also true in the basic game, thus when upgrading ships i have to remove components to get the benefit of level 2. can either level one be change to 40kg or the others changed to 30kt?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am not sure of what you are asking of me, here?
Shield 1, auto upgrade as with the standard se4 procedures.

Sure all shields can be lowered to 30kt, I have not given this much thought.
What do you suggest?

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 17, 2003, 15:03: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

1: temporal spaceyard, the problem i have is when i auto upgrade it replaces the regular spaceyard 5 with temporal spaceyard 3 which has the lower production, it was thinking tsy might be changed to another family or tsy3 set below the sy5 as most recent.
2: again with auto upgrade, the sg1 when is upgraded to sg2+ it says i have gone over the limit for the size of the ship by 10kt for every sg1 upgraded. just to avoid this problem i would suggest making the sg1 40kt just like the other shield generators. i have already done this with the games i am playing, but i am not sure if others have experienced this problem. i may be the only one who just hits upgrade and does not design upgrades from scratch for all i know, or others may not bother with lvl 1 shields.

[ March 17, 2003, 20:48: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by JLS:

These are a few upgrades in the Next AI Campaign Update 2.02
============================================

Revised Dome Miners to include Bridge.
Mining Complex same family upgrade from a mining Colony Facility:~Thanks, GLV.
Temporal Base Yards adjusted: ~Thanks GLV.
Temporal Lvl 3 BSY increased output (250 per) with(next and Last upgrade to BSY Lvl 5 BSY!)~Thanks desdinova
Space Yard Tech: Early Tech cost lowered: ~Thanks, Forum.
Large Star Liner needs room for Solar Collector:~ Thanks, Desdinova.
Improved Combat Sats
Improved Fighter weapons : ~Thanks LAN
Raise AI Cultural Center Costs
(No Warp Games) Tweaks :~ Many thanks for Time, Effort and Help of PsychoTechFreak tests with SE4batch tester.
~
** Only on update and not in Patch!
Latest Additions (See edit date & time Stamp

----------------------------
Now being tested for Next release:
Tech Path from Industry (Industrial Centers)=Robo Factrys
Tech Path From Computers (Universitys)=Planet Computers
)<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed,
Temporal Lvl 3 BSY increase output (250 per) with next and Last upgrade to BSY Lvl 5 BSY!

Thanks, desdinova http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 26, 2003, 14:53: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:
again with auto upgrade, the sg1 when is upgraded to sg2+ it says i have gone over the limit for the size of the ship by 10kt for every sg1 upgraded. just to avoid this problem i would suggest making the sg1 40kt just like the other shield generators. i have already done this with the games i am playing, but i am not sure if others have experienced this problem. i may be the only one who just hits upgrade and does not design upgrades from scratch for all i know, or others may not bother with lvl 1 shields.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I like your idea on standardizing the Shield KT thru out.

Maybe 30kt for ALL standard Shield Generators http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Phased - Shield Generators; stay at 40kt.
Regenerating Shield Generator; stay 45kt.

What do you think?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Desdinova]

i like that idea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
so now for the annoying question. when is the update coming out, hunh, hunh, gotta have the update. come on, hurry up with the update already (in a nasal whiney voice). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:
i like that idea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
so now for the annoying question. when is the update coming out, hunh, hunh, gotta have the update. come on, hurry up with the update already (in a nasal whiney voice). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I will have most of the list done; for this Friday. This will include most of the Finite Tweaks for the AI’s. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
EDIT: friday March 28, 2003.

However, PTF and I may not be ready with the; AI HW Resource Re-facilitating; in Finite Balanceing, by then though. But we plan at chipping away at that, this week http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 22, 2003, 21:25: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

AI Campaign UPDATE 2.02
~(coming soon)~
==============
With extra Hours on the Job for most of us, and the distractions due to war in Iraq; testing was delayed .

Expected release date will be; this Friday, April 4th 2003.
~

Major rework for the AI in Finite. AI tests out fine for AIC Version 2.02. The AI will go thru a major resource re-facilitating much later in the game now.
I slowed the AI players starting progress a little to give the Human Player a little edge if they are close and to colonize a midway planet before the AI.
Fighters have been revised to the majority of players input.
Base Yard tech has been lowered 50%; as to accelerate your first Base Yard upgrade.
OutPosts, Stations and Domes no longer need a Sat Bridge. They now have a small weapon built in, as to encourage the unfriendly AI's to pick them off.

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 05, 2003, 04:11: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

AI Campaign UPDATE 2.02
==================

Included with Upgrade:

Slowed AI Players starting progress.
Large Star Liner added room for Solar Collectors :~ Thanks, Desdinova.
Temporal BSY Tree :~Thanks desdinova
Mining Complex same family upgrade from a mining Colony Facility : ~Thanks, GLV.
Fast Colonizers : ~Thanks GLV
Temporal Base Yards adjusted : ~Thanks GLV.
Space Yard Tech: Early Tech cost lowered: ~Thanks LAN,PTF.
Revised Mining OutPosts and Organic Domes. : ~Thanks LAN
Improved Combat to-hit Sats : ~Thanks LAN
Improved Fighter weapons : ~Thanks LAN
Reduced AI Mega Evil : ~Thanks Oleg
Improved Fighter Shields : ~Thanks Oleg
Turreted Cannons lowered and only targets Fighters now :~ Thanks, Oleg
AI Tweaks (No Warp Games & Finite) :~ Many thanks to PsychoTechFreak for Time, Effort and Help with SE4batch tester.
Major Balance Tweaks for Finite play :~Thanks PsychoTechFreak,GLV,LAN
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DOWNLOADS

AIC Version 2.02 files only . (size 224kb)Updates ALL AIC Versions. (Will break existing games)

~

Note: PATCH v2.02p (size 225kb) is for v2.01 only.
The top line in the Components File should read AIC v2.01, and not followed by a p; see example below http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~
If you just patched the original release (check top line in the Components File AIC v2.01p) , then this patch may break current game in progress.
With either patch, when your game is finished it is recommended you update AI Campaign with the AIC Version 2.02 files only download. (size 224kb)

Enjoy

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 05, 2003, 15:55: Message edited by: JLS ]

[PsychoTechFreak]

Space Yard Tech: Early Tech cost lowered: ~Thanks LAN,PTF.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Errr, planet yards need to be improved, that's what I was complaining about, not Spacestation yards. The first facility on a planet has to be a yard, because you have downgraded the population modifiers extremely against proportions modifiers. But it still takes about 45 turns until you get the first small production rate bonus from the planet yard.
Another observation: Race setup has repair ability of 80%, 2 orbital SYs over the homeplanet (planet yard with "can repair 1 component per turn", usually works with 80% also...). I upgraded both orbital SYs in the same turn, but they get no repairs in the following turns -> scrrrrraaaaappppp !

[JLS]

Planet Space Yards Facilities have the same Production as base se4 and most mods plus AIC Yards come with a Resupply depot, which comes in handy when you need to retrofit engines at a Colony as well as free up a space for another facility.

In regards to Pop Modifiers as it relates to SY productions you get your first bonus with about a population of 5 or 6; then it scales upward from there. Basically not as liberal as base se4 but much less constringent then some other mods.
This should represent the time it takes to settle a Colony when under pop, however we encourage the employment of Starliners to transport Population to 5 or 10 or even more pop for a good planet. Starliners are the key to bring the Population levels up. Please refer to the AIC readme file.
Starliners are very inexpensive, quick to build and do this Pop Transportation task rather well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~
In regards to repair; On Base Repair Components are unchanged from base se4… However BSY's and Yard Facility was set to 1 from 3 repair per Yard do to the fact that this mod enjoys Plate armor and most may no longer need to repair several armor Components, on any single ship, as in base se4 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I suggest for those who choose to lower there repair characteristics for the benefit of others or choose a culture that has a poor repair ability but better in others; then Repair Base Station that repairs 9 components per turn may be a good course of action also one that should be considered prior to a major retro-fits, in any case http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Their is also a System Maintenance Facility that repairs 6 components and that affords a 5% maintenance bonus for that system. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 08, 2003, 15:52: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

base spaceyards. thanks for seperating the temporal from the regular ones.
i realize this is probably going to be considered a cheat but if you take a battlestation and put 1 spaceyard and 3 repair units the maintenance cost actually becomes a negative amount. i use three repair units since they can repair 1 ship in 1 turn in most cases. discovered when i started running out of minerals that mtc cost negative. if you put on 2 or less repair units the mtc is positive. i have not actually checked to see if the negative amount is added back into reserves or not though.

edit starliners: can you make them small, medium, and large? basically add a larger one that can carry 3 million people. i have started using the large transport and that actually lets me carry 3 million people and gives better movement, upto 9 spaces as opposed to 4 with lrg starliner and quantum engines and gravitic drive. also may want to make population life support max of 3 instead of 2 as the large xport requires 3 ls thus i am using 2 pop ls and 1 normal ls.

edit 2: forgot which component, not a home, family is 19, one of them is misnumbered as family 17 at around level 6 iirc.

[ April 08, 2003, 03:11: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:

base spaceyards. thanks for seperating the temporal from the regular ones.
i realize this is probably going to be considered a cheat but if you take a battlestation and put 1 spaceyard and 3 repair units the maintenance cost actually becomes a negative amount. i use three repair units since they can repair 1 ship in 1 turn in most cases. discovered when i started running out of minerals that mtc cost negative. if you put on 2 or less repair units the mtc is positive. i have not actually checked to see if the negative amount is added back into reserves or not though. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks, the modifier on the repair bays will be removed and I will reduce their cost appropriately.

This will also reduce the building time for a Base Repair Stations, substantially http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

PTF, has a good point in respects to lowered Repair Char. This will be a fair resolution to his post. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
~
starliners: can you allow them small, medium, and large? basically add a larger one that can carry 3 million people. i have started using the large transport and that actually lets me carry 3 million people and gives better movement, upto 9 spaces as opposed to 4 with lrg starliner and quantum engines and gravitic drive.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Raising Star Liner Cargo Storage may allow hauling cargo to the front too inexpensive.
All Transports at the right Cargo Tech, may already make for fast Transportation of Population and Equipment, as you illustrated above.
=
Thanks Desdinova, this feedback is greatly appreciated, the changes will be made. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 08, 2003, 21:41: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

at home now. the component is ECM XII should be family 19 but is listed as family 17.

edit. found out why mtc cost is a negative.
crystalline rstructuring plant at lvl 6. -30%
starbase is listed as -50% but is discounted -75%
repair bays are -5% each and i have 3 of them.
racial bonus of 10% on mtc costs.

i think if you were to change the mtc cost of the starbase itself instead of dropping the ability from the repairbays it would be better. i would think that the repair bays would help reduce mtc costs.

[ April 08, 2003, 19:50: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[JLS]

Yeah, there are more description type-Os, that need fixing, Q-Brigid is helping us with this.

I removed the Base Repair Bay component; Maint Modifier and reduced the Cost back to basic se4, this resolves the maintenance stacking issue we had with the Yard and the Repair Bay.
I tested it and that works fine again.

This also reduces the build time for the Human Player for forward Repair Base Stations back to normal, something I did not originally want for AI Balance, but it will also address PTF’s scenario some what..

Thanks on ECM VII, it will be resolved.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 08, 2003, 21:48: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

also i just noticed that temporal spaceyard facilities do not have supply generation whereas the normal ones do. no wonder my colonies cant refeul the ships but my homeworld can. it is still using the regular spaceyard but after i gained temporal spaceyards all of my colonies started being built with temporal spaceyards. time to build spacedocks.

[ April 09, 2003, 03:02: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[JLS]

I did not test the Temporals. I spoke with Steve here in our LAN group, who plays and tested the Temporals and he thought Temporal Space yards were Power Full enough.

(afterthought) Steve also adds, the Population to support a Temporal yards production and the Time to build at Colonies would be a very large investment and Homeworld only was the most logical. Also by the time you reached temporal yards, a City (space dock included) may be built at almost the same cost.

Also by adding a Resupply Depot to the Temporal Yard this would add more cost; on an allready long build.

What are your thoughts on this?

[ April 09, 2003, 18:11: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

AIC Supply and Resupply

All Cultural Centers on the Home World as well as Cities on up; all have an inherent Space Dock for resupply.

TIP: The Space Dock and Distribution Center on the Home World are expendable Facilities and can be scraped for any other facility of your chosen. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Some Examples are:
Early Trade Center
Resources and/or Research Production facilities
Combat Command Center
Maintenance Facility
System Ship or Resource Scanner
Computer facilities
Planet Engineering facilities
Racial facilities
Many more.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 09, 2003, 17:12: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

it takes about 3-5 years to build a temporal spaceyard depending on how many starliners i have going to a planet to increase population. i agree that the increased production and repair capabilities do make up for the resupply. i have no problem with building spacedocks or cities.
i just thought it was funny that i had just figured out why my colonies were not resupplying my ships, after all this has been out for a while now.

edit: regarding the starbase mtc costs. i was thinking that instead of removing the mtc reduction of the repair bays just reducing the mtc bonus of the starbase from the 75% it is back to the 50% the description gives. PTF was talking about the planet based yards not the ship/base yards in his message i believe. i kinda agree that the planet based yards should have a higher repair ability than just one. but then again you do have the system mtc facility that offers a repair of 6. it just takes time to get to it in research.

[ April 09, 2003, 20:00: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[JLS]

Actually, I don't think there is any balance issue if we add one, Steve’s main concerns was the added cost of the depot…

I think the Resupply Depot should go on, but I rarely play Temporal. What would you say?

[ April 09, 2003, 20:02: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

it doesnt bother me either way. the spacedock and other facilities are things i will eventually put on anyway because of their other abilities. to me a ship would refeul at a spaceport more often than a repair/spaceyard facility though. at least thats were we would go in traveller and star frontiers.

edit: as much as i like all in wonder facilities i dont think that it is necessary to add it. makes the players have to make choices, and that is part of the fun.

edit2: regarding organic races. any chance of making comparable component for them but requiring organics instead of mineral. i tend to play temporal and organic with the occasional crystal thrown from time to time. i would be glad to help with this. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 09, 2003, 20:11: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:

edit: regarding the starbase mtc costs. i was thinking that instead of removing the mtc reduction of the repair bays just reducing the mtc bonus of the starbase from the 75% it is back to the 50% the description gives. PTF was talking about the planet based yards not the ship/base yards in his message i believe. i kinda agree that the planet based yards should have a higher repair ability than just one. but then again you do have the system mtc facility that offers a repair of 6. it just takes time to get to it in research.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed, on the time involved to build yards and the way the Repair Base Stations is now.
In the next upgrade Base Repair bays will be at se4 default and then much faster to build.
~
The premise for lowering the repair ability on Planet Yards are 4 fold.

1: AI does not use repair well; evens things out a-bit.
2: Encourages building base Repair station at home.
3: Increases the Human Players options and choices in the forward Colonies.
Example: Planet Yard, now do I go with a BSY or RBS.
4: Low Repair Char. Is no longer a give-me.

[ April 09, 2003, 20:18: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

in one of my present games i am cheating. i made the racial abilities cost 0 and have selected all the racial abilities plus emotionless, but have not increased any of the abilities so they are all at 100%. i am doing this to see how all the different techs work without having to start new games. it takes forever to research all the racial techs but it is giving me a better understanding of how everything compares. normally i just read the text files but thig gives me a much better feel for the components and facilities. it has shown me that other than the weapons and armor that there is not much for organic races.

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:

edit: as much as i like all in wonder facilities i dont think that it is necessary to add it. makes the players have to make choices, and that is part of the fun.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed,
What do I build in this new System first:

Space Port, then upgrade to Distrubution Center
Resupply Depot then upgrade to Space Dock
Resupply Base for protection
Space Yard with resupply depot
Colonial Comunity

edit2: regarding organic races. any chance of making comparable component for them but requiring organics instead of mineral. i tend to play temporal and organic with the occasional crystal thrown from time to time. i would be glad to help with this.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The AI has a problem keeping up with Organics as it is. How do you feel about an increased burden of added Organic maintenance; as a Human Player?


i would be glad to help with this
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Absolutely http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif , the LAN group is off playing Sahara’s Creasers like, China game now.
So little help from them at this point.

[ April 09, 2003, 20:47: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

*************
Agreed, on the time involved to build yards and the way the Repair Base Stations is now.
In the next upgrade Base Repair bays will be at se4 default and then much faster to build.
*************
i actually like the mtc reduction of the repair bays thats why i suggested reducing the mtc bonus on the starbase itself instead of removing it from the repair bay. i am not overly concerned about the time to build a station as it would take several years to build one that far away from home. and the only time it really takes forever is if you are building a base spaceyard whichs adds about 1.5 yeas, the repair bays add only 8 turns each with one. most of the starbases i build are for defense and only have 1 repair bay and lots of weapons. the spacedock is usually around a planet and there i get the extra build bonus of the planet to help reduce the time.

edit: look at how long it took them to build the babylon stations.

[ April 09, 2003, 20:29: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[Desdinova]

guess i am into this mainly as a way to play sci-fi shows and games than just to defeat the other races. i guess i am influenced more from all the years spent in scifi and fantasy rpg and tv shows that most people in this.

[JLS]

I am a slow typest, I just finished my Last Post, while you place two http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:
*************
Agreed, on the time involved to build yards and the way the Repair Base Stations is now.
In the next upgrade Base Repair bays will be at se4 default and then much faster to build.
*************
i actually like the mtc reduction of the repair bays thats why i suggested reducing the mtc bonus on the starbase itself instead of removing it from the repair bay. i am not overly concerned about the time to build a station as it would take several years to build one that far away from home. and the only time it really takes forever is if you are building a base spaceyard whichs adds about 1.5 yeas, the repair bays add only 8 turns each with one. most of the starbases i build are for defense and only have 1 repair bay and lots of weapons. the spacedock is usually around a planet and there i get the extra build bonus of the planet to help reduce the time.

edit: look at how long it took them to build the babylon stations.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Lets Play test Bases it at -50% and see. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I will start my next game with it after I finish this fighters test.

[ April 09, 2003, 20:37: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

i dont mind the increase. since you have a cultural center for the other racial traits then we can try to make one for the organic that will help offset this increase.

[Desdinova]

i have to get ready for work. i will load the 2.02 onto laptop and see what i can do tonight. hopefully we wont be as busy as we were Last week, so i can give you some feedback.

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:
i dont mind the increase. since you have a cultural center for the other racial traits then we can try to make one for the organic that will help offset this increase.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ok, then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Lets give an Organic Base Yard and -50% Bases a test in our next game.

Do you think the Organic BSY should get a small bonus on Organic Production?
And this all should be just available for the Human Player, what would you say?

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:
i have to get ready for work. i will load the 2.02 onto laptop and see what i can do tonight. hopefully we wont be as busy as we were Last week, so i can give you some feedback.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Great, THANKS http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:
in one of my present games i am cheating. i made the racial abilities cost 0 and have selected all the racial abilities plus emotionless, but have not increased any of the abilities so they are all at 100%. i am doing this to see how all the different techs work without having to start new games. it takes forever to research all the racial techs but it is giving me a better understanding of how everything compares. normally i just read the text files but thig gives me a much better feel for the components and facilities. it has shown me that other than the weapons and armor that there is not much for organic races.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Interesting, let us know how you make out.

[ April 09, 2003, 21:11: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:
it has shown me that other than the weapons and armor that there is not much for organic races
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Organics Parasite Missile is a great weapon in the opening to mid game, and considering it upgrades in conjunction with other Organic Weapons this should be considered as a powerful strength for that dual attack option.

I always felt the Crystals had the edge, with the Primary Racial Choice.
Now with Plate Armor, they may have a little more added to that advantage.

I don’t know if we should add any thing to the Organics, but perhaps reduces some others for Balance.
For example, max out the Crystallines Restructuring Plant at 20% instead of the 30%.

[ April 09, 2003, 21:14: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Desdinova.

I sent you an EMAIL beta Copy of an alternative for the Repair Base Station.

What do you think?

John.

[ April 10, 2003, 16:14: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

just downloaded. will look at them. we have several people on vacation this week so work is busy. will see what i can do b4 and after work though.

[Desdinova]

i am using the 2.02 rules, not the ones you just sent me, on this. there are no crystalline restructuring plants or system mtc facilities
total starbase cost: m: 59020 o: 16920 r: 9450

starbase mtc is 75% mtc bonus
repair bays with mtc bonus: m: -2407 o: -690 r: -385
repair bays with no bonus: m: 3611 0: 1035 r: 578

starbase mtc is 50% mtc bonus
repair bays with mtc bonus: m: 7625 o: 2185 r: 1220
repair bays with no bonus: m: 14kt o: 3911 r: 2184

this was done in one of my games, however it was one i which i was playing with huge fleets so i had increased mtc bonus for race to 30% so i could afford to maintain larger fleets. (edit: which is the same as having crystalline restructuring plant lvl 6 anyway)

just reducing the mtc bonus to 50% is enough to keep the cost from going negative.
i realize that part of the reason for going back to the original repair bays was to lower cost, thus making it faster to create starbases on the frontier, plus i think you also increased the component repaired amts when went back to original so wouldnt need 3 repair bays. but i still prefer having the bonus added to the component myself.

edit. im wrong you did not increase the # of components repaired so i would still be putting 3 repair bays on starbase. but you did increase the mtc bonus of the starbase to 77%. hmmm, let me try from scratch with the mod you did.

[ April 10, 2003, 20:09: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[JLS]

Actually, we are resolving the way of increased Frontier Base construction time with the need to keep the net maintenance relatively low.
~
The files I sent you should not allow for stacking of the Base Repair Bay MTC any longer and should be more in line with NET Maintenance.

The combined Maintenance reduction on a Base Battle Station with both a Ship yard and a Repair Station Component makes sense, since the two will Complement each other with the joint operations of a Large Maintenance Base.

I also staggered structure kt (armor effect) upward thru the levels on all Construction Components; to represent the on-going repair in battle.

I added Minus Offence and Defense to all Base Ship Yards and Repair Base Station as to limit there exploitation. What would you suggest the figures be, this is an example.

What are your thoughts on all this?

[ April 10, 2003, 22:16: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Large Maintenance Base Results

With no other Modifiers all Resources are a positive. I did not test with MTC Planet Facilities, but this looks good so far.

Basic BSY on a Space Station Hull, with:

Level 1 SY = m:960 o:97 r:75
Level 1 Repair Bay = 1280.90.50
~
*Large Maintenance Base on a Battle Station Hull, with:

Level 1 SY and Level 1 Repair Bay = 1188.81.67
Level 3 SY and Level 3 Repair Bay = 1694.101.108
Level 5 SY and Level 3 Repair Bay = 1710.97.127

*Note: There is still 550kt of room on the Large Maintenance Base, to fill with Defenses etc. So the Maintenance will go up on this design if a Player wants to add some extras.

[Krsqk]

"I also staggered structure kt (armor effect) upward thru the levels on all Construction Components; to represent the on-going repair in battle."

You probably already realize this, but that also makes it more likely to be hit in combat (due to its higher hitpoints). Depending on where it falls in comparison to other components, it might not alter the combat survival chances of this component.

[PsychoTechFreak]

Originally posted by Krsqk:

You probably already realize this, but that also makes it more likely to be hit in combat (due to its higher hitpoints). Depending on where it falls in comparison to other components, it might not alter the combat survival chances of this component.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's true. The other end of the extreme shows it, basic life support components in proportions have 1kT structure and they almost never get a hit (cheap and hard to be hit). But I have seen it is 10kT in AIC now, good.

[JLS]

Desdinova and I are attempting alternate ways to redesign Base Yards and Repair stations. Desdinova is coming up with some real good and innovated ideas http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Originally posted by Krsqk:
“but that also makes it more likely to be hit in combat (due to its higher hitpoints). Depending on where it falls in comparison to other components, it might not alter the combat survival chances of this component.”<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed, I would think that the Construction Components for bases should stand alone; this will afford them a little more protection.
The additions of many extra weapons or to many defenses will and should slow the construction time down and raise the Bases overall maintenance cost.
~~

Krsqk,
Do you think there may be a way we could design a DAMAGE CONTROL COMPONANT, that would be a cross between or incorporating both a low value Shield Modifier and Ablative armor, at a reasonable tonnage kt? That would be a optional but a critical ship install and this component would be gained thru Repair Tech?

What would you say?

[ April 11, 2003, 14:35: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
But I have seen it is 10kT in AIC now, good<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">More thought has to be done here, thou, and we should go over all Component structures for the next AIC Update.

PTF, what are your thoughts about us miniaturizing the hardened life support level to 5kt in both tonnage and structure, or just put it to 9kt in structure?
While leaving the structure of basic LS at 11, and LS at 10 as is, for AIC v2.03.

[ April 11, 2003, 14:38: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

regarding the increased size making it more likely to be hit. i have noticed that with the armored structure components in the mod that the armored structures tend to get hit more often once armor has been breached since they tend to be 100+kt in structure while only taking up 10 kt in space. the exception is with the shipyards, as they tend to be the largest components on bases and ships. plus with the armored structures ability to shrug off x amount of damage (based on level) they have become an integral part of all my ship and base designs. they are well worth the minerals necessary to build them in my opinion. edit: which makes sense as the ships/bases structure should take most of the damage before components do. but once that structure is damaged/destroyed then it doesnt take long for the rest to be destroyed.

[ April 11, 2003, 19:05: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[PsychoTechFreak]

Originally posted by JLS:

PTF, what are your thoughts about us miniaturizing the hardened life support level to 5kt in both tonnage and structure, or just put it to 9kt in structure?
While leaving the structure of basic LS at 11, and LS at 10 as is, for AIC v2.03.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With a comparison tool I have seen a lot of extreme changes, I need some time to get into this.
What's the reason for the unusual values (11,9, etc.)?

I agree if you intend to restructure everything, this will be a big task. If you lower the structure kT it will be harder to hit, but if it gets a hit then the component will be more vulnerable plus the overall armor effect of the ship will be lowered. The intention of hardened life support is to increase protection of the ship, like a kind of armor component. I mean, the higher the structure tonnage the easier to hit (like armor)... Wait a minute, now I recall why I (probably instinctively) never used hardened LS so far:
LS is an important component which needs to be protected by ARMOR, but it should not get the same ability to work like armor, because this would change it to an easy to hit component. This evaluation should be done with every other component, probably at the end we could come to the conclusion that hardened LS better should be removed, the structure tonnage of the important componants to be lowered if they are armor-like too high etc.

[Desdinova]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Space Yard Tech: Early Tech cost lowered: ~Thanks LAN,PTF.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Errr, planet yards need to be improved, that's what I was complaining about, not Spacestation yards. The first facility on a planet has to be a yard, because you have downgraded the population modifiers extremely against proportions modifiers. But it still takes about 45 turns until you get the first small production rate bonus from the planet yard.
Another observation: Race setup has repair ability of 80%, 2 orbital SYs over the homeplanet (planet yard with "can repair 1 component per turn", usually works with 80% also...). I upgraded both orbital SYs in the same turn, but they get no repairs in the following turns -> scrrrrraaaaappppp !</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">i agree with you about the length of time it takes for a colony to build anything, takes forever. once colony is created it takes 10 YEARS to build a spaceyard on the planet. i have noticed that the reason for this is the construction penalty the planet recieves for having such a small population. when you start off with 1 million people you only get 5% of your actual construction rate. even once you get to 100 million you still only get 40% and that takes several years of moving population back and forth. for these newly created colonies i have created mobile spacedocks (shipbased shipyard) and send them to the colony to build bases while my planet is building the shipyard (once i have researched the required techs which still takes several years itself). plus i have dedicated starliners going from my homeworld to each colony set to just move people to the colonies.

edit: regarding the repair of bases. yeah it also takes forever to repair the upgraded facilities. at least it sounds like you did it over a planet so the planets yard will eventually repair the bases upgrades. i made the mistake up upgrading all my bases over a wormhole and my mobile space docks (MSD's) were all in the middle of constructing bases at other locations so i had to wait about 2 years to have one completed before i could send it to repair the bases upgrades. fortunately it was a wormhole well within my territory.

[ April 11, 2003, 20:01: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:
regarding the increased size making it more likely to be hit. i have noticed that with the armored structure components in the mod that the armored structures tend to get hit more often once armor has been breached since they tend to be 100+kt in structure while only taking up 10 kt in space. the exception is with the shipyards, as they tend to be the largest components on bases and ships. plus with the armored structures ability to shrug off x amount of damage (based on level) they have become an integral part of all my ship and base designs. they are well worth the minerals necessary to build them in my opinion. edit: which makes sense as the ships/bases structure should take most of the damage before components do. but once that structure is damaged/destroyed then it doesnt take long for the rest to be destroyed.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed

What of below examples:
Base se4; Robo – Miners at structure 100
Not to mention large non combatant SM Component structures 100-400 as well as the 2000 structure of Grav Plates and Cables, etc.
What kind of affect do they have on combat.

[ April 11, 2003, 19:57: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
“What's the reason for the unusual values (11,9, etc.)?”<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Assuming the Basic Life support at structure 11kt would be more vulnerable over crew Qtrs, sensors etc.
9kt refers to not hanging the Lvl 3 Life Support out to be shot at.

I was throwing the option on the table for Level 3 LS to be a miniaturized Version at 5 kt tonnage and structure.
~
LS is an important component which needs to be protected by ARMOR, but it should not get the same ability to work like armor, because this would change it to an easy to hit component. This evaluation should be done with every other component, probably at the end we could come to the conclusion that hardened LS better should be removed, the structure tonnage of the important componants to be lowered if they are armor-like too high etc.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed

Level 3 Life Support to be miniaturized to 5 kt both in tonnage and structure may be the way to replace and discontinue Hardened Life Support. What would you say?

[ April 11, 2003, 20:19: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

starting to look at the files you sent me. one question about the spaceyards. for ships the size is 460kt but for bases it is only 400kt.

plus i noticed you reduced the structure on the base spaceyard and increased it on the ship spaceyard. this i take it is to help balance the size vs frequency of hits.

as far as the mtc cost of spaceyard bases they are manageable so far. but i have only built 1 base and 1 ship so far. havent tried combat yet to see how the penalty is going to affect things though. not sure if the penalty to hit is really a good idea since bases would seem to be very stable platforms to fire from. plus with the penalty for starbases to be hit already due to their size the additional penalty may be overkill. but then again shipyards should be protected by other ships, fighters, bases, etc as they are a valuable resource so we'll see.

edit: plus i see you use space station hulls where i use starbase hulls so that would also make a difference. so will have to try with a few of those as well.

[ April 11, 2003, 20:26: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[PsychoTechFreak]

Originally posted by JLS:

What of below examples:
Base se4; Robo ? Miners at structure 100
Not to mention large non combatant SM Component structures 100-400 as well as the 2000 structure of Grav Plates and Cables, etc.
What kind of affect do they have on combat.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Like plain armor. I think it is all right for robo miners, grav plates etc., they should resist proportional to size. In most cases they are the only component in a hull. If a 2000kT structure should be protected, the structure tonnage should be increased, additional armor components below 2000kT would not help. Heavy components which can be protected by armor should not get too much reduced in structure tonnage, because this would be a malus on smaller ship hulls with lower protection by armor (because of no space available for protection).

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:

starting to look at the files you sent me. one question about the spaceyards. for ships the size is 460kt but for bases it is only 400kt
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I increased the size to 460 for the Ships (Yard Component) so it would fit snuggly on a medium transport with one supply. This was done to limit some creative Human Exploitation of the SYS, where the AI or an unfamiliar Human multiplayer opponent would not be at a great disadvantage.
Other wise I would of taken cargo abilities off the SYS component to prevent this, alltogeather.
~
plus i noticed you reduced the structure on the base spaceyard and increased it on the ship spaceyard. this i take it is to help balance the size vs frequency of hits.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is just a start, we will tweak the Structure sizes on all Components for the next release.
~
not sure if the penalty to hit is really a good idea since bases would seem to be very stable platforms to fire from. plus with the penalty for starbases to be hit already due to their size the additional penalty may be overkill.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Combat minus modifiers have not been changed on the Base vehicle hulls, but just on the Base Shipyard and Repair Component.
Other wise one may put this on a Defense Base design; just for the Maintenance Modifier.
However, I just thru those numbers on for the example I sent you, play testing will determine the best result. What would you say a good starting figure would be?
~
plus i see you use space station hulls where i use starbase hulls so that would also make a difference. so will have to try with a few of those as well.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This may be best solution I have at this time for the Base Repair Bay (Maintenance Modifier) not to stack, and preserve a long Frontier build time with out the extreme maintenance cost.
We can go back to the faster build; SE IV default Repair Component or even add an additional individual one with no MTC to Complament the new Repair Station.

It seems to play well, but lets see if it works for you, with some large base hull designs, notice you have a low level Repair Base Station just from Ship Construction 2 tech, now.

[ April 12, 2003, 01:04: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Like plain armor. I think it is all right for robo miners, grav plates etc., they should resist proportional to size. In most cases they are the only component in a hull. If a 2000kT structure should be protected, the structure tonnage should be increased, additional armor components below 2000kT would not help. Heavy components which can be protected by armor should not get too much reduced in structure tonnage, because this would be a malus on smaller ship hulls with lower protection by armor (because of no space available for protection).<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Makes sence.

What do you think of Level 3 Life Support to be miniaturized to 5 kt both in tonnage and structure may be the way to replace and just discontinue Hardened Life Support.

[ April 11, 2003, 21:19: Message edited by: JLS ]

[PsychoTechFreak]

Originally posted by JLS:


Level 3 Life Support to be miniaturized to 5 kt both in tonnage and structure may be the way to replace and discontinue Hardened Life Support. What would you say?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, there is not much of a difference to regular LS anymore. Mmh, probably on very small scout ships without much available place for armor a HLS would be good, I am curious about the initial intention about this component (PvK?). Probably much more than 150kT, so that you need 4-5 hits before destruction? This would still make it the first component to be destroyed, but protection would be improved.

Can you increase hull structure in case of HLS component is used, like channel more plain armor to hull in case of HLS? I guess this is not possible without implementing additional hulls...

[JLS]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Yes, there is not much of a difference to regular LS anymore. Mmh, probably on very small scout ships without much available place for armor a HLS would be<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A 10kt Armor structure fits well on a scout and I don't know if I would invest in High end Components for most scouting tasks.

[ April 11, 2003, 21:26: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Krsqk]

Krsqk,
Do you think there may be a way we could design a DAMAGE CONTROL COMPONANT, that would be a cross between or incorporating both a low value Shield Modifier and Ablative armor, at a reasonable tonnage kt? That would be a optional but a critical ship install and this component would be gained thru Repair Tech?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was going to suggest something like this, but was too sleepy to come up with any specifics. Probably Shield Generation, along with Emissive Armor? I guess you'd need a Version for regular shields and one for after phased shields are researched (using Shield Generation and Phased Shield Generation abilities, respectively). Maybe even a small crystalline effect or shield regeneration. Of course, any shield generation abilities would be nullified by shield depleters, and the component would be damaged by shield disruptors. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

There will probably have to be some combination of shield generation, shield regeneration, emissive ability, and fairly high tonnage structure. The structure shouldn't be too high, though, because it shouldn't outstrip the protection of armor--after all, the point of the component is to survive. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I seem to recall such a component being discussed in a thread a while back, but I can't find it right now.

[JLS]

Originally posted by Krsqk:
Probably Shield Generation, along with Emissive Armor? I guess you'd need a Version for regular shields and one for after phased shields are researched (using Shield Generation and Phased Shield Generation abilities, respectively). Maybe even a small crystalline effect or shield regeneration. Of course, any shield generation abilities would be nullified by shield depleters, and the component would be damaged by shield disruptors. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

There will probably have to be some combination of shield generation, shield regeneration, emissive ability, and fairly high tonnage structure. The structure shouldn't be too high, though, because it shouldn't outstrip the protection of armor--after all, the point of the component is to survive. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LIKE IT http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
I will get started on your suggested design and get in test for the mourning.

Thanks
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 12, 2003, 00:54: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

i am having a problem with the files you sent me. if i start a game with medium or high level technology then i dont get cultural centers i get mining expedition I's, Rad expedition and farm settlement. if i start with low technology then i get cultural centers. i do however get the temporal cultural centers regardless of what level of tech i start with.

edit: i normally start with a low tech game so i dont know if this was happening in previous Versions or not. but in this case since i wanted to create fully researched base and ship components i tried a high tech game. i am playing a organic temporal race. i double checked to make sure i had selected the required human tech since that is a requiremnt of the cultural center and i had done that.

[ April 12, 2003, 02:16: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[JLS]

All set, file on the way...

Nice Job, Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ April 12, 2003, 02:22: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

i am at work and have no way of downloading at this time. is it a simple fix that i can just edit my copy?

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:
i am at work and have no way of downloading at this time. is it a simple fix that i can just edit my copy?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Problem was in the Construction Tech file Raised level setting; allowing Resource Facilities from the Beginning of the game, at Med Tech.
There by breaking the Organic, Psychic and Crystal Culture Centers. Temporal Cultural Centers gives you a small Research Bonus that is why that Loaded.

You should be all set for Low and Medium Starts now, with this change.

Please edit your Tech File to this setting:

Name := Construction
Group := Theoretical Science
Description := The science of constructing buildings and City Centers.
Maximum Level := 6
Level Cost := 10000
Start Level := 0
Raise Level := 0
Racial Area := 0
Unique Area := 0
Can Be Removed := False
Number of Tech Req := 0

File is already in the Mail.
Thanks, again
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 12, 2003, 02:53: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

thanks. have done. playing now.
edit: tried a high start and now i dont even get the temporal cultural centers. all i get are the mining exp, rad exp, and farm settlement, i dont even get the temporal cultural center. on the medium tech start it still same problem but i do get the temporal cultural center.
i will just wait until i get home. i will reload AICampain and copy the patch you sent.

[ April 12, 2003, 02:58: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[Desdinova]

just checked in v2.02 and it was the same way with high and medium tech starts. i will check v2.01 when i get home also. plus try installing the patch you sent.

[JLS]

Desdinova.

You defiantly found a bug for Medium Tech starts, that was in all previous AIC Versions that would effect Human Player. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The fix I posted or the File I sent you will defiantly resolve your Medium Tech Start Situation in loading Culture Centers and we will no longer have Resource Facilities as a problem; in a Low or Medium Tech Starts.

If after the new Tech file install and you are still experiencing trouble:

1: Please Reinstall the Full Version of AI Campaign that you have, so we will start fresh.

2: Then please install the 2.02 FILES update, this will add the new AI files.

3: Then please overwrite the DATA files with 2.03p Beta update.

4: Then overwrite with the Tech File Fix I sent you Last night.

I am curious what you think about the new, Base Repair Station component?

~
Please Note:
At this time, with MOST MODs that have Cultural Center designs; we do not recommend to Play a game in the High Tech start mode…

But I may be able to fix this, I will take a look at it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ April 12, 2003, 17:45: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Now that the Cultural Centers are Loading normal with the beta 2.03p tech fix and after we resolve the new Base Repair Station for 2.03, we can take a look at the need to Balance the type CC that is loaded for a Dual Race Class.

In Finite Play:
Imperial Trade from the Different Cultures really can make the difference in Cities and the various Large Culture Centers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Since {RADs} are the first resource to be depleted, we have to be sensitive to that. Organics from mother Planet, are very easy to accumulate and do not deplete near as fast (if at all) as all other recourses.

So for Races:

Organic + Temporals (Perfect). There should be about 50% Basic CC's, 30-40% in Temporal CC's for the (Imperial Trade in RADS) and 10% Agrarian Culture Centers.

Psychic + Temporals, Perfect

Psychic + Crystalline, Perfect

Organic + Psychic, Looks good.

Organic + Crystalline, YUK, Added more Crystalline CCs for v2.03

Psychic + Crystalline , Looks ok, but added more Crystalline CC for v2.03

Beta v2.03 Facility File, on the way.

[ April 12, 2003, 17:37: Message edited by: JLS ]

[PsychoTechFreak]

Methinks planet SY always have to accelerate production rate, that's why I always try to build SY as one of the first facilities. Tested on high tech start, created a new colony near homeplanet, start building SY 1 , 7.5 years http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Sent population shuttles until colony has reached 153 million. After 2.5 years at Last the SY has been 1 turn before completed. Stopped the shuttles to compare the production rates with the next turn:

Before SY = 980/980/980
SY completed, same population, same happiness (jubilant) = 760/760/760

SY production rate penalty alert !
But I fear there is a similar issue in proportions with this...

And I still think, we need a kind of early production rate acceleration facility, maybe a pre-SY facility (after the issue above has been fixed) with limited SY abilities but with a SY production bonus, NOT a malus http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[JLS]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
SY production rate penalty alert !
But I fear there is a similar issue in proportions with this...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Proportions Ship Yard Rate is absolutely Perfect for what PvK wants to achieve.

If I understand you correctly in regards to AI Campaigns; Ship Yard Rate, I agree it is slow with a small population and the Base Ship Yards are structured so there are now 5 levels to reach the Maximum production. This is part of AIC concept, the game is a Campaign and your Primary Enemy will be the AI, and the game is not designed to end in a quick fashion, unless the AI decides you are out of the game early. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 12, 2003, 22:03: Message edited by: JLS ]

[PsychoTechFreak]

Originally posted by JLS:
Proportions Ship Yard Rate is absolutely Perfect for what PvK wants to achieve.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I disagree. The problem with this is, SY rate HAS to begin with 100 % minimum, otherwise it adds a malus when completed. It is the only facility with a malus, I don't want to build planet SYs in AIC and proportions anymore.

EDIT: ... not before 2000 million people (100%). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

[ April 12, 2003, 22:20: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

[JLS]

Ship Yard Basics for new se4 Players

Ship yard rates can be improved in many ways, in your Space Empires Game.

When creating your Races Attributes:
Workers or Engineers Culture Selection.
Increased Construction Aptitude in the Characteristics Selections.
Hardy Industrialist from the Traits selections.

In Game:
Always raise your Colony population up with Pop Transports or Starliners.
Keep your Colonies happy.
Up Grade to level 2 Ship Yard Tech; as soon as you see the Ships Production start to lag, this will happen when you start installing expensive components.

It is wise to be at a decent Ship Yard rate when you Plan to use Stellar Manipulation.
Also never retrofit all your Base Ship Yards or Base Repair Station at the same time, by doing this you lost that Bases abilities to contribute in the over all retrofit.

In regards to Base Repair Stations, they should be designed and built as soon as you feel your ships will need repair, and always try to have one built prior to retrofiting many ships with engines, do to the number of engines on each ship.

~~~

With above said, and with out acquiring any of the above Construction Attributes, you still will be right were the designer intended.
Above will make you stronger in the Construction Category, but you may loose some strength in the other Categories.

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 12, 2003, 23:34: Message edited by: JLS ]

[PsychoTechFreak]

[ April 12, 2003, 22:51: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

[Desdinova]

i forgot rennaisance festival started this weekend and for next 5 weekends. i am pretty much out weekends btwn that and working evenings. will play with this weekdays before work, or if it stays slow here i will play here at work.
i had not noticed that build rate on planets gets worse with shipyard, that is definitely a problem. i will check that also. how about a shipyard that once you have a sufficient level of computer it gains automated control that helps increase the shipyard rate regardless of population. i mean if a computer can pilot a ship across galactic distances then surely it can control a shipyard with minimal (insert race here) supervision.
edit: then again i dont think this would be possible with the rules since they take into account the population bonus/penalty regardless.

[ April 12, 2003, 22:43: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JLS:
Proportions Ship Yard Rate is absolutely Perfect for what PvK wants to achieve.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I disagree. The problem with this is, SY rate HAS to begin with 100 % minimum, otherwise it adds a malus when completed. It is the only facility with a malus, I don't want to build planet SYs in AIC and proportions anymore.

EDIT: ... not before 2000 million people (100%). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was posting SY FYI while you were posting this, I could not see your following post.

PTF, You know I value your opinion, and it is realized that in Base se4 that SY Rate starts at 100% from the start but some MODs want a alternative Progression towards 100% of certain applications.

Considering the MODs you spoke of, a Colonizer colonizes at 1 pop about 20% that of base se4 and starting transport capacity is 1 pop, this about 2% of base se4, then in theory all else could be scaled (some what) accordingly.

True the Ship Yard Rate for AIC is not as liberal as base SE4, but there are some MODs that have more of a restrictive progression in SY rate then AI Campaigns.

[ April 12, 2003, 23:15: Message edited by: JLS ]

[PsychoTechFreak]

I am sorry, I have tested with slow builders, they get a 25% production malus once a planet SY is built. Without slow build and 100% SY characteristic the production rate is the same as before SY completed.

Everything all right and I was wrong...
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[JLS]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
I am sorry, I have tested with slow builders, they get a 25% production malus once a planet SY is built. Without slow build and 100% SY characteristic the production rate is the same as before SY completed.

Everything all right and I was wrong...
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No prob... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I also hate the Slow Builders trait.
But the 500 Point bonus from it, is useful at times http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[ April 12, 2003, 23:48: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

PTF has brought up a valid point in regards to the SYS requiring the need to make at least 2 repairs. Do to the lowering of Repair Abilities below 99% for a Human Players culture choice.

In the next upgrade the SYS will make repairs of 2-3 and 5 as per level http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Thanks PTF http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ April 13, 2003, 21:38: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

AI Campaign UPDATE 2.10
~~~~(Release date, soon)~~~~

==================

New* Repair Base Station Component's ~ Des, PTF
New* Miniaturized Life Support replacing HLS ~ PTF
Revised SYS Component Repair ~ PTF
Revised Some Structure KT Sizes ~ PTF
Organic Race Facilities fixed and Revised ~PTF
ECM VII fix ~Des
Medium Tech Starts Fix ~ Des
Revised some Fighter Weapons and Tech Requirements ~ GLV
Extra levels for the Combat Bridge ~ GLV
New* Fighter Solar Collector ~ LAN
Lowered Some AI Mine Sweeping Abilities ~ LAN
NEW* Finite Friendly Dual Race Class CCs~ DES
NEW* Ships Engineering Component ~ Krsqk
NEW* Sick Bay Component; Cures level 1 plagues and increased Crew performance. ~ LAN
NEW* Basic Crew Qtrs at 5kt. ~ LAN
NEW* Religious Culture Centers complete with built in Fate and Nature Shrines.

Added some race specific abilities on all Culture Centers.
Planet Engineering and Utilization research tree streamlined basically back to default se4.

No Warp-Style Games optimized
Reduced Sizes and Costs on some Stellar Manipulation Components.
Tweaked AI Research and Const Vehicle Files.
NEW* Two new Warp Open Components added for Humans Players; starting at Stellar Manipulations Tech ONE.

[ April 25, 2003, 21:21: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by Krsqk:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Krsqk,
Do you think there may be a way we could design a DAMAGE CONTROL COMPONANT, that would be a cross between or incorporating both a low value Shield Modifier and Ablative armor, at a reasonable tonnage kt? That would be a optional but a critical ship install and this component would be gained thru Repair Tech?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was going to suggest something like this, but was too sleepy to come up with any specifics. Probably Shield Generation, along with Emissive Armor? I guess you'd need a Version for regular shields and one for after phased shields are researched (using Shield Generation and Phased Shield Generation abilities, respectively). Maybe even a small crystalline effect or shield regeneration. Of course, any shield generation abilities would be nullified by shield depleters, and the component would be damaged by shield disruptors. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

There will probably have to be some combination of shield generation, shield regeneration, emissive ability, and fairly high tonnage structure. The structure shouldn't be too high, though, because it shouldn't outstrip the protection of armor--after all, the point of the component is to survive. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I seem to recall such a component being discussed in a thread a while back, but I can't find it right now.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Krsqk,
This design seems to play well, do suggest any additions or changes?

Name := Damage Control
Description := Quarters for trained crew members assigned to ships Maintenance and Damage Control Parties.
Pic Num := 50
Tonnage Space Taken := 10
Tonnage Structure := 60
Cost Minerals := 100
Cost Organics := 30
Cost Radioactives := 5
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := One Per Vehicle
General Group := Construction
Family := 352
Roman Numeral := 0
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 4
Tech Area Req 1 := Repair
Tech Level Req 1 := 2
Tech Area Req 2 := Ship Construction
Tech Level Req 2 := 5
Tech Area Req 3 := Advanced Design Engineering
Tech Level Req 3 := 1
Tech Area Req 4 := Human Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 4 := 1
Number of Abilities := 3
Ability 1 Type := Armor
Ability 1 Descr :=
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Armor Regeneration
Ability 2 Descr := Repairs in Combat.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 15
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Modified Maintenance Cost
Ability 3 Descr := Increases Ships Maintenance Efficiancy.
Ability 3 Val 1 := -1
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

[ April 19, 2003, 11:03: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Suicide Junkie]

Damage control, to me would be more like the organic armor regeneration ability.

Put one point on any component that can possibly be repaired during battle, and give the damage control team 20 points of OA ability.

When the combat sensors are hit, the damage control team rushes over to fix it. As long as there are only one or two components damaged each combat round, they can keep up.

[JLS]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Damage control, to me would be more like the organic armor regeneration ability.

Put one point on any component that can possibly be repaired during battle, and give the damage control team 20 points of OA ability.

When the combat sensors are hit, the damage control team rushes over to fix it. As long as there are only one or two components damaged each combat round, they can keep up.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I like it SJ, I already received 3 Emails saying YES-YES, we like SJ way….

So you are basically saying put some Regenerating Armor on some key Components when Damage Control tech is reached, for example:

Bridge
Life Support
Crew Qtrs.

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by JLS:
AI Campaign UPDATE 2.10
~~~~(Release date, soon)~~~~

==================

New* Repair Base Station Component's ~ Des, PTF
New* Miniaturized Life Support replacing HLS ~ PTF
Revised SYS Component Repair ~ PTF
Revised Some Structure KT Sizes ~ PTF
Organic Race Facilities fixed and Revised ~PTF
ECM VII fix ~Des
Medium Tech Starts Fix ~ Des
Revised some Fighter Weapons and Tech Requirements ~ GLV
Extra levels for the Combat Bridge ~ GLV
New* Fighter Solar Collector ~ LAN
Lowered Some AI Mine Sweeping Abilities ~ LAN
NEW* Finite Friendly Dual Race Class CCs~ DES
NEW* Ships Engineering Component ~ Krsqk
NEW* Sick Bay Component; Cures level 1 plagues and increased Crew performance. ~ LAN
NEW* Basic Crew Qtrs at 5kt. ~ LAN
NEW* Religious Culture Centers complete with built in Fate and Nature Shrines.

Added some race specific abilities on all Culture Centers.
Planet Engineering and Utilization research tree streamlined basically back to default se4.

No Warp-Style Games optimized
Reduced Sizes and Costs on some Stellar Manipulation Components.
Tweaked AI Research and Const Vehicle Files.
NEW* Two new Warp Open Components added for Humans Players; starting at Stellar Manipulations Tech ONE.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Looks like a lot of great additions, and I am glad you changed Planet Utilization back to usual and the Organic Facilities look great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The Religious Culture Center is awesome Im going to play another Finite game this time with some Religion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

When are you going to be done with v2.10 upgrade? Looking forward to a No Warp Finite game.

[ April 25, 2003, 21:47: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
-
Looks like a lot of great additions, and I am glad you changed Planet Utilization back to usual and the Organic Facilities look great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The Religious Culture Center is awesome Im going to play another Finite game this time with some Religion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

When are you going to be done with v2.10 upgrade? Looking forward to a No Warp Finite game.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Tech trees have less bombs now, and I increased Out put from Research Facilities 25 to 50%.

I added something extra to All the Culture Centers; Racial and other wise, that may help the Human Player. After the release I am sure their will be tweaks and desires from other Players.

I like the Racial Facilities now. With many thanks to PTF, Oleg and yourself of coarse GLV.

I am testing the Components File for a few days. This upgrade should be released by the end of the week.

[ April 27, 2003, 17:07: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

The only research tree that showed at none was Planet Engineering, and you fixed that.

I like the new Temporals CC, what do you think about a small system intell bonus instead of the Pychic traning bonus on the new Psychic CC?

I know theres not much else for Psychics.

[SunDevil]

JLS,

I have looked over your files, and I must say you have done a great job fixing the AI. I was just wondering what your progress has been on the individual races in regards to these files: settings.txt, anger.txt, and politics.txt files.

Through my research I found that the main cause for the ai to act toward a human player and the other ai races are directly related to these files.

Based on the races that I looked I had some questions for you:

1.Cue Cappa: If another race treats them well, that race will be treated well in return, but should another race treat them badly, they can be quite dangerous. (FROM the general.txt file)
Demeanor := Honorable
Culture := Merchants
Happiness Type := Peaceful

Anger.txt File
Receive Offer Counter Treaty Proposal := 20
Receive Propose Trade := 15

In this short example, this race will have their anger increase by 20 points if a race provides them with a counter treaty proposal. In the next example if this race receives a trade request their anger automatically goes up by 15 points.

If this race is peaceful and will treat another race based on their dealings, the setting just within this one file contradicts the initial concept of this race.

Politics.txt File

Score Percent For Demanding Tone = 60

By setting it to this value a peaceful and honorable race will start a demanding tone when their race has a score of 600 and the target race has a score of a 1000. If this is a peaceful race why would they start a demanding tone to a another race that is stronger than them?

Settings.txt File

Get Angry Over Allied Colonizable Planets := True

If this is a truly peaceful race then they should not get angry over allies have colonizable planets. This will only increase their anger and not leave much of a difference in anger total and tolerance between an enemy and an ally.

Also remember that the happiness type is also based on what the actions of the race performs. This race is peaceful which means it likes treaties and trades but not war. The anger.txt file, politics.txt and settings.txt file should also reflect this.

There are many of these issues throught these files for each race. Because of these issues the ai races will always hate not only the human player but the other races as well. I was just wondering your take on these issues and if you planned on addressing these issues in a future update. Thanks again for your hard work and additions to the mod community.

[JLS]

Good questions SunDevil.

Originally posted by SunDevil:

JLS,
Cue Cappa:
Demeanor := Honorable
Culture := Merchants
Happiness Type := Peaceful

Anger.txt File
Receive Offer Counter Treaty Proposal := 20
Receive Propose Trade := 15
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Receive Offer Counter Treaty Proposal := 20
If excepted at se4 default that you may be used to; then they won’t get a little ticked when the Human Player just turned down his Military Agreement Proposal to use your Human Resupply Bases when the human countered with a TR.

With se4 Anger file instead of insulted he would get happy with a net -3

Receive Offer Counter Treaty Proposal := 0
Receive Accept Treaty := -3
Cue Cappa and the Terrans are Merchants and they feel the Galaxy is for free trade and they want to use your bases. The Cue Cappa may get a {briefly a little} ticked and this is also were that (3%) below starts to add up LATE in the game.

But the Terrans who are not Honarable but Aggressive, eventually can get darn right Hostile at times if not allowed use of your bases or star charts.

I know I would not be happier if I kept getting turned down polity or otherwise http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

In regards to:
Receive Propose Trade := 15
This in conjunction with
Accept Trade From Friend At Percentage Value or Greater of Received = set at 2 for 1 in favor of AI.

Slows down the ability for the Human Player to make constant resource trades with the AI; bleeding his resource reserves just so the that human player can subsidize a LARGE FLEET with those reserves to crush him in the end http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif
~

The other entries are calibrated to get the results preferred for this mod.

For example

Get Angry Over Allied Colonizable Planets := True

But also as you may have noticed is only at 3%
All though it is very unlikly the Honarable Cue Cappa will break the treaty over Planets,it could get him near brink only very late in the game.
Break Treaty Base Anger Level := 70
Break Treaty Anger Modifier Per Other Wars := 40
Break Treaty Anger Modifier For Percent Stronger Player := 250
Break Treaty Anger Modifier For Percent Stronger Player Amount := 50
Break Treaty Anger Modifier For Percent Weaker Player := 50
Break Treaty Anger Modifier For Percent Weaker Player Amount := -20
With other crossed entries involved as well, that we have not discussed.

See for yourself, this does work.

Percentage of Enemy Planets to consider as Attack Locations for Anger := 5
Is higher, for once the treaty is over, this Prideful Honorable Cue Cappan race will less likly to go back freinds http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~~

If this is a truly peaceful race then they should not get angry over allies have colonizable planets. This will only increase their anger and not leave much of a difference in anger total and tolerance between an enemy and an ally.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As you know from your research SunDevil what AI races in base Space Empires 4 {use the anything other then the Happiness Type := Peaceful}

Even the Psychotic, Berserk Xi'Chung must use Peaceful do to the se4 default Happiness programming.
Demeanor := Psychotic
Culture := Berzerkers
Happiness Type := Peaceful
~~

There are many of these issues throught these files for each race. Because of these issues the ai races will always hate not only the human player but the other races as well. I was just wondering your take on these issues and if you planned on addressing these issues in a future update. Thanks again for your hard work and additions to the mod community
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If I explained myself well enough then you can see there is little to no changes needed in this area.
However, with thousands of entries changes in all these AI files I made , sure there can be typo or a glitz and I am sure a few will pop up, but so far so good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The Cue Cappa gets along with everybody for most if not all the game, it’s the Violent races that choose war with them more times then not.
Now, if you have first Contact the Cue Cappa late in the game they may not like you from the go, then all bets are off, but if they like you and you get any possitive Treaty, it is unlikly they will break it for some time.

This AI has been tested and played countless hours in that area and I have received a lot of positive feedback on AI Campaigns AI behavior from the Players. That’s not to say their won't be tweaking, I tweak every update, if not just so the AI won't get stale and or familiar http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~~~
However SunDevil I still am having complications with the Xiati they are Schemers, I want them to be very friendly and then stab the weakest player in the back, maybe you can help me with this AI, what are your thoughts?

[ April 29, 2003, 15:33: Message edited by: JLS ]

[SunDevil]

JLS,

Thanks for answering my questions, I understand your points I guess I have to play with your mod a little more.

Anyway, off the top of my head with the Xiati, I would look into the politics.txt file. The anger and the settings file is to generic. Now based on the score percentage, if the Xiati have a high enough score percent in relation to a particular race or group of races that fall below or equal to that score percentage then they would be aggressive.

Score Percent to Send Want a tribute := 100/200
Will Send To Friend Want a tribute := True
Will Send To Enemy Want a tribute := True

Score Percent to Send Demand your surrender := 800/900 (You have this right now at 15)?
Will Send To Friend Demand your surrender := True
Will Send To Enemy Demand your surrender := True

Score Percent to Send Remove your ships from system := 200/300
Will Send To Friend Remove your ships from system := True
Will Send To Enemy Remove your ships from system := True

Score Percent to Send Remove your colonies from system := 600/700
Will Send To Friend Remove your colonies from system := True
Will Send To Enemy Remove your colonies from system := True

Score Percent to Send Leave planet := 500/600
Will Send To Friend Leave planet := True
Will Send To Enemy Leave planet := True

Now based on the score percent, regardless if the weak race if friend or foe the Xiati will not be nice. If the other races are closer in score to the Xiati then the they will not be bothered with these demands. Like I said, this is just off the top of my head and I hope this helps.

[ April 29, 2003, 03:33: Message edited by: SunDevil ]

[JLS]

Xiati


Originally posted by SunDevil:

JLS,

Thanks for answering my questions, I understand your points I guess I have to play with your mod a little more.

Anyway, off the top of my head with the Xiati, I would look into the politics.txt file. The anger and the settings file is to generic. Now based on the score percentage, if the Xiati have a high enough score percent in relation to a particular race or group of races that fall below or equal to that score percentage then they would be aggressive.

Score Percent to Send Want a tribute := 100/200
Will Send To Friend Want a tribute := True
Will Send To Enemy Want a tribute := True
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Score Percent to Send Want a tribute := 100/200

I am not sure were you got the 100/200 from?
200 would yield a Demand when your race is way behind score strength by double

What is actual :
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 90
AIC Xiati set at = 50

With the current AIC setting at 50 the Xiati will demand a tribute when he is 50 % ahead of his target Races score as opposed to default which would only be a 10% lead, virtually almost equal strength in base se4.
I would laugh at a race that was tied asking me for tribute that’s why I bumped it up to 50.

With the currant Xiati AIC setting at 50, he will make demands less and when he does he will have some strength to back it up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~

Will Send To Friend Want a tribute := True
Will Send To Enemy Want a tribute := True

Few races in AIC asks a Friend for Tribute, and the Xiati is one of them, in this way being the scum I want them to be.
~~

Score Percent to Send Demand your surrender := 800/900 (You have this right now at 15)?

Will Send To Friend Demand your surrender := True
Will Send To Enemy Demand your surrender := True
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Again I am not sure where you are getting 800/900

At 800 would yield a Demand when your race is way/wayer behind score strength by 4 to 5 times in other words Your Race will be the one needing to Surrender not demanding it.

What is actual :
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 80
AIC Xiati set at = 15

This is a real good question SunDevil do to such a variance from default of 65.

At se4 default of 80 the race would demand a surrender when he only has a 20 % percent strength score lead this again is virtually tie and the target AI would constantly refuse any way.

With Currant AIC setting of 15 the Xiati will demand surrender when he is about 200% score strength to that of his target race…

Again the AI will make less demands and has some authority when he makes demands.
~
Will Send To Friend Demand your surrender := True
Will Send To Enemy Demand your surrender := True
Only the greedy races in AIC will send To Friend Demand your surrender, and the Xiati is one of them, in this way being the concealed scum I want them to be http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~


Score Percent to Send Remove your ships from system := 200/300
Will Send To Friend Remove your ships from system := True
Will Send To Enemy Remove your ships from system := True
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What is actual :
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 80
AIC Xiati set at = 70

As you can see we are close here I bumped up 10 to lessen the demands only.

However if you notice some of the Xenophobe Race files in AIC:

Sergetti for example:
Demeanor := Aggressive
Culture := Xenophobes

Score Percent to Send Remove your ships from system := 110

He will send Remove your ships even when he is trailing by 10% and they MEAN it as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Anger:
Per No Treaty Ship := 2
If you are in his territory with out a treaty you have only a few turns to GET out if:
1: His strength is –150 to 150 to that of yours.
2: He doesn’t much care if he already has a war or 2 (25) but will react a little slower if this is the case.
3: By mid game (turn 250-500) he may even take less crap from a non aligned race.
4: Even in the opening game (turn 1-51) he will cut you some slack, but not as much as others.

Declare War Anger Modifier Per Other Wars := 25
Declare War Anger Modifier For Percent Stronger Player := 150
Declare War Anger Modifier For Percent Stronger Player Amount := 50
Declare War Anger Modifier For Percent Weaker Player := 50
Declare War Anger Modifier For Percent Weaker Player Amount := -30

Same applies to a lesser degree with the Amonkrie But being Honorable he responds even when he is trailing -250% but he will cut some slack to you just the same; but don’t try to take advantage of the Amonkrie generosity until you have an agreement.

Now the Zynarra they relly don’t want anybody to STAY in there System, they won’t even let a friend refuel so don’t run out of gas . They will let a friend pass thru, but that’s about it. If you want to remain friends don't remain in his system with a fleet.

Well, enough of the Xenos, back to Xiati.
~
Will Send To Friend Remove your ships from system := True
Will Send To Enemy Remove your ships from system := True

I have this set at true for the Xiati because I am still trying to to get them more triggers to back stab an ally so they can be the scum I want them to be.

~

Score Percent to Send Remove your colonies from system := 600/700
Will Send To Friend Remove your colonies from system := True
Will Send To Enemy Remove your colonies from system := True

Score Percent to Send Leave planet := 500/600
Will Send To Friend Leave planet := True
Will Send To Enemy Leave planet := True
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What is actual colonies :
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 80
AIC Xiati set at = 60

What is actual planet :
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 80
AIC Xiati set at = 50

Same Principles Applies as stated above.
Less AI demands and when the Xiati does demand he will have some influence.
~

Now based on the score percent, regardless if the weak race if friend or foe the Xiati will not be nice. If the other races are closer in score to the Xiati then the they will not be bothered with these demands. Like I said, this is just off the top of my head and I hope this helps.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Based on your numbers that you posted you have the Xiati Demanding Surrender when he trailing 5 to one? You did not get these numbers from AIC or the Original Space Empires Race Files.

I can’t take this any further, because I am not sure where your Numbers are coming from or your intended direction.

With the numbers I explained above, I hope will shed some light on the Xiati Political file and do accomplish what I perceive a Schemer should be, what do you think?

My next post will explain more of what I want to do with the Xiati and the item entries that make the difference, but I still need that elusive entry that makes them a more consistent back stabber, with out getting them in to much trouble as an AI.
Then when it comes to testing (ekk) it takes forever to create environments to set things in play, this is where feedback is so helpful.

John

[ April 29, 2003, 19:09: Message edited by: JLS ]

[SunDevil]

JLS,

I go the numbers backwards.

Remove Ships from System := ?

(You described this race that only focuses on weak races. If you do set this to 100, if you look farther down this file, you will see you have set for the Xiati to leave systems on 200 and planet at 200 both at true. So if the Xiati will leave a system or planet at 200 but will tell any race to get out of their system at 100, it just seems a little close to me.)

Demand Surrender := 15 Good Choice
Leave System : 40/30 Serious Request
Leave Planet : 40/50/60

-------------------------------------------------
What is actual colonies :
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 80
AIC Xiati set at = 60

What is actual planet :
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 80
AIC Xiati set at = 50

Because there might be multiple planets within a system you might want to have a lower score than leave planet because telling a race to leave a whole system is a huge demand compared to leaving only one planet.
I also noticed that you have this set in the accept part of the politics file as well. Where a race will accept the demand remove their colonies from a system when the score is 200 more than the target race, but to remove from a planet it is set to 400.
--------------------------------------------------

SunDevil

[JLS]

I was just about to edit when my server hickuped.

Please add this EDIT:

On other Mods I/we/they may set all Surrender Values very high and this is for good reason and for that particular design. This may be were you are getting some of the numbers.

I have to return to work.... Darn, I am enjoyng this exchange, I will be back as soon as I can.

[ April 30, 2003, 12:49: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Xiati


Originally posted by SunDevil:

JLS,

I go the numbers backwards.

Remove Ships from System := ?

(You described this race that only focuses on weak races. If you do set this to 100, if you look farther down this file, you will see you have set for the Xiati to leave systems on 200 and planet at 200 both at true. So if the Xiati will leave a system or planet at 200 but will tell any race to get out of their system at 100, it just seems a little close to me.)
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Posted Send Remove your ships from system
What is actual :
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 80
AIC Xiati set at = 70 (not 100?)

Exerpt from AIC, as you can see they are staggered?
Score Percent to Send Remove your ships from system := 70
Will Send To Friend Remove your ships from system := True
Will Send To Enemy Remove your ships from system := True
Score Percent to Send Remove your colonies from system := 60
Will Send To Friend Remove your colonies from system := True
Will Send To Enemy Remove your colonies from system := True
Score Percent to Send Leave planet := 50
Will Send To Friend Leave planet := True
Will Send To Enemy Leave planet := True

Actual To Accept Remove your ships from system:
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 150
AIC Xiati set at = 200

Actual To Accept Remove your colonies from system:
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 150
AIC Xiati set at = 200

Actual To Accept Leave planet:
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 150
AIC Xiati set at = 200

OK, have a display,

The AIC Xiti {may} ask another race to remove his ships from a system if he is 130% to that of the targets score.

The AIC Xiati {may} accept the obligations to remove ships from a system if the Sending AI is 200% stronger then the Xiati.

Just so this is clear = "but will tell any race to get out of their system"
The system that is referenced by the AI is usually a contested system and actually the sending AI feels as strongly that the TARGETS system is his; whether it is the targets Home System or not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
The AI rarely fulfills if ever the acceptance obligations that implicates its Home System in reference to the Items above. Actually, the AI usually drags his butt or has an excuse on acceptance obligations outside his Home System as well in reference to the above items.

~

Demand Surrender := 15 Good Choice
Leave System : 40/30 Serious Request
Leave Planet : 40/50/60
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks.

"40/50/60" Their you go, these are absolutely good settings http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
From time to time we can randomly interchange to keep the Players on there toes.

~

What is actual sends colonies :
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 80
AIC Xiati set at = 60

What is actual sends planet :
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 80
AIC Xiati set at = 50

Because there might be multiple planets within a system you might want to have a lower score than leave planet because telling a race to leave a whole system is a huge demand compared to leaving only one planet. I also noticed that you have this set in the accept part of the politics file as well. Where a race will accept the demand remove their colonies from a system when the score is 200 more than the target race, but to remove from a planet it is set to 400.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks I see your Point, I will stay with the acual sends but in regards to accepts I will retest cranking colonies to 300-400 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Good Job, Sundevil http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

John

[ April 30, 2003, 02:25: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Sundevil,

No matter how you cut it, the Xiati can not be trusted, and that is where they are at now.

If not broken , best not to fix it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

EDIT:
I gave 300-400 a go,but 300 does works better for the Xiati, Thanks, Sundevil.

[ May 03, 2003, 12:27: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Thanks, for the cheer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

How it is done; is by manipulating the AI files that Aaron Hall who created Malfador Machinations Space Empires; intended for moders.

TDM (mod pack) has an awesome AI and they accomplished this with in the constraints of base Space Empires routines, and is a fine example on how this is done and by listening and referring to there knowledge, I was able to program something reasonable, to complement AIC.

Thanks. Xeno’s and most other races play the diplomatic game well, when it comes to the Psychos; Well there is not much creativity there, but everything evolves.

When it come to feed back: When you see something out of AI character that the AI did, send me an E-Mail or just post.

Again, thanks QBrigid http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 01, 2003, 13:51: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Xiati


Originally posted by SunDevil:

JLS,
(You described this race that only focuses on weak races.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sundevil, good question. Sorry I missed this portion from your Post.

What I like to see is the Xiati some time after 50 turns, BREAK ONE treaty on the weakest race (about 150% weaker). I do expect more times then not, this to be the Human Player http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Now lets say you have a military Agreement with the Xiati , and he is over one of your resupply colonies possibly even over your Home World with a fair size fleet.
I want the Human Player to get real Paranoid if he/she is trailing; even Slightly (or ahead on some intentional random AI releases) and start building defenses even you the Human Player to consider a preemptive strike against him http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

I don’t want the Xiati to declare wars, I just want them to double deal.

You will notice more time then not, they will pull this off. Even against other AI's.

[ May 01, 2003, 17:16: Message edited by: JLS ]

[QBrigid]

Originally posted by JLS:

JLS,

However if you notice some of the Xenophobe Race files in AIC:

Sergetti for example:
Demeanor := Aggressive
Culture := Xenophobes

Score Percent to Send Remove your ships from system := 110

He will send Remove your ships even when he is trailing by 10% and they MEAN it as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Anger:
Per No Treaty Ship := 2
If you are in his territory with out a treaty you have only a few turns to GET out if:
1: His strength is –150 to 150 to that of yours.
2: He doesn’t much care if he already has a war or 2 (25) but will react a little slower if this is the case.
3: By mid game (turn 250-500) he may even take less crap from a non aligned race.
4: Even in the opening game (turn 1-51) he will cut you some slack, but not as much as others.

Declare War Anger Modifier Per Other Wars := 25
Declare War Anger Modifier For Percent Stronger Player := 150
Declare War Anger Modifier For Percent Stronger Player Amount := 50
Declare War Anger Modifier For Percent Weaker Player := 50
Declare War Anger Modifier For Percent Weaker Player Amount := -30

Same applies to a lesser degree with the Amonkrie But being Honorable he responds even when he is trailing -250% but he will cut some slack to you just the same; but don’t try to take advantage of the Amonkrie generosity until you have an agreement.

Now the Zynarra they relly don’t want anybody to STAY in there System, they won’t even let a friend refuel so don’t run out of gas . They will let a friend pass thru, but that’s about it. If you want to remain friends don't remain in his system with a fleet.

Then when it comes to testing (ekk) it takes forever to create environments to set things in play, this is where feedback is so helpful.

John<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don’t how you do it but the way the AI reacts in AI Campaign it is almost like they are Human.
What kind of feed back would you like to see in regards to AI diplomacy.
I don’t recall my encounters with the Xiati but the Xenophobic races do act like natural Xenophobes.
The Phong is also very Honorable, they do not break their treaty even when they are angry with you.
Very sweet mod. Keep happy and keep up the good work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 01, 2003, 12:25: Message edited by: QBrigid ]

[SunDevil]

JLS,

Thanks for the feedback, I am currently trying to put together about six of the top mods together into one for my personal use. I plan on playing around with your mod, but I must say you did your homework when putting this mod together. In a couple of days I will probably be finished and I will get a chance to actually play a game. Once I do, I am sure I will have more questions for you. Thanks again for your feedback and thanks again for your hard work in putting this mod together.

[JLS]

Sounds ambitious and it would be an honor if AIC is one of your top six.
If you need anything, be sure to ask.

Thanks again, Sundevil. I very much, enjoyed our exchange http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

John

[ May 02, 2003, 10:13: Message edited by: JLS ]

[mottlee]

Has the AI mod site been down? I have 3/4 of it D/L and now can not find it

[JLS]

I uploaded, AIC v2.90; should be all set.
I had trouble loggong back on here, Friday.
I hope you received AIC v2.90 with no problems.

[ May 03, 2003, 12:21: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

=====================
AI CAMPAIGN v2.90 UPGRADE

~now available for download~
=====================

Conceptual:
NEW* Commercial Income Value assigned on some facilities with AIC Finite Module.
NEW* Organics are abundant and Radioactives are more rare in the AIC Universe. However all Industrial Space yards always receive priority of all goods.

Improved* Finite Friendly (Dual plus) Race Class CCs~ DESdinova
Lowered some AI's income in the AI Balance Module .
Revised some Imperial Trade Income Values for AIC Finite Economics Module.
Some revisions in AIC Tactical Fighter Module.
Lowered Some AI Mine Sweeping Abilities in AIC AI Balance Module.
Adjusted AI (theoretical AI intertraded) Colonizer Modules in AIC AI Balance Module.
Lowered AI Open Warp distance in AI Balance Mod.
Human Player Evolution rate increased about 10-20% overall.
Added AIC General Trait-Tie Racial Construction to Settlements.

Facilities:
NEW* Racial class Settlements.
NEW* Planet Lore for the Organic Race.
NEW* Religious Culture Center for the Human Player.
Revised Urban Family Progressions and costs.
Added another Nature Shrine Level for Religious Races.
Added more Abilities to all Culture Centers.
Increased level 2 and 3 Research Facilities about 25%.
Lowered Construction cost of Resupply Depot 20%
It is also faster to build a Space Port also about 25%.

Components:
NEW* Repair Base Station Component's ~ Des and PTF
NEW* Miniaturized Life Support replacing HLS ~ PTF
NEW* Fighter Solar Collector ~ LAN
NEW* Engineering Section ~ Krsqk
NEW* Sick Bay.
NEW* Basic Crew Quarters.
Added two new early Warp Open Components for Human Players.
Extra levels for the Combat Bridge ~ GLV
Revised some Fighter Weapons and Tech Requirements ~ GLV
Added Fighter shield level with all revised sizes ~ Oleg
Added Fighter Armor ~ Oleg
Revised SYS Component Repair ~ PTF
Revised Some Structure KT Sizes ~ PTF
Gestation Vat Fix ~ PTF
Medium Tech Starts Fix ~ Des
ECM VII fix ~Des
Lowered Supplemental Colonizer Module size.
Drone Launcher cargo increased.
Lowered cost and time to build for Ring and Sphere World as well as most productive SM Components.
Revised Robo-Mining Base and Ship Mining Vessels; More Profitable.

Interface:
House Keeping near Finished now with most Components and Facilities Organized.
When you scroll thru the design menu, it has a much neater and professional look. Thanks SJ, for the suggestions.

AI Files:
Slight Randomization of a few AI personalities.
I normally do not post any AI specific changes, as not to spoil some surprises.
Changed a few Political accept system AI entries~Sundevil

Notes:
No Warp style games optimized:
Reduced Sizes and Costs on some Stellar Manipulation Components.
Planetary Engineering back to se4 default tech tree.
The added research 25% expedites research time some what faster for No warp or isolated games .
Revised some AI Stellar Manipulation techniques.
Tweaked AI Research and Const Vehicle Files. (Most races are staggered, they all do not open warps at or near the same time actually some are very late openers now)
Two new Warp Open Components starting at SM Tech ONE. Opens you up to all the Systems with in your Home Cluster (6-12 systems) when Playing either Galaxies map. SM 3 will get you to the next Cluster. Note: AI initially warps its original home Cluster as well.
~~
Lowered Infantry structure in the attempt to give Troop vehicles a prominent role in combat and to increase the effectiveness of standard orbital bombardment in AIC. Cheap Militia type Infantry now die or FLEE quicker and Troop Vehicles with Armor Stand their Ground far more valiantly. Balance tips and suggestions are much welcomed here.
~~
I would like to thank {PTF}PsychoTechFreak
for the many hours of Play Testing and Suggestion with all AIC and especially No Warp Style optimization for AIC.

----------------
DOWNLOADS

Please download AI Campaign v2.90 Complete if you never recieved your copy.
~~~
AIC Version 2.90 Upgrade files only . (size; only 347kb)
Updates ALL AIC Versions.
(Will break existing pre2.90 savegames)

[ May 03, 2003, 15:44: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

I like the new look in AIC v2.9 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

I am about to start my first NO WARP - FINITE game ever.

I will be Religious and Temporal, I like the layout for Dual Race class Culture Centers.

Are there any No Warp game Suggestions other then playing with a LARGE default galaxies maps ?

[ May 03, 2003, 17:08: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[mottlee]

Originally posted by JLS:
I uploaded, AIC v2.90; should be all set.
I had trouble loggong back on here, Friday.
I hope you received AIC v2.90 with no problems.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No did not complete the D/L have not been able to reconnect to finish it can't find server will scratch it and D/L new one

[JLS]

Thanks, Mottle.

Please let me know if the Server Acts up again, I tested it earlier and it was ok http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[JLS]

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
I like the new look in AIC v2.9 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

I am about to start my first NO WARP - FINITE game ever.

I will be Religious and Temporal, I like the layout for Dual Race class Culture Centers.

Are there any No Warp game Suggestions other then playing with a LARGE default galaxies maps ?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Although PTF is the expert in NW games,
this is what I would try in a No Warp-Finite Game.

Religious Trait.
Choose a Rock Race.
Some Intelligence Char. to speed research, since you are Isolated and with out trade.

Consider a Large default Galaxies Map in Finite Games. More systems to plunder.
~~~~
A couple of good planets in your random start is good a start.

Start game By researching: Ship 2 and Construction then follow it up with Planet Engineering to get to Planet Utilization also Industry and Computers thrown in their as well. This will give you a good infrastructure.

Home Planet Builds:
Colonizer, scrap Space Dock and Dist. Center and Build 2 settlements on the Homeworld.
Build a flow of Starliners to Breathable Colonies to increase there Production.
Scrap a settlement when you get Planet Value Improvements facility.

Colonies Planet Builds:
Send out as many Research Expeditions as Possible and then a few Religious settlements at a time(upgrade them to Towns two or three at a time). Build PVI when it is available.

Build System Support Facilities (Shrines-Bio Hospitals etc. on Scrub planets.

Only build Resource Facilities if absolutely needed.
I do not think it wise to build Industrial Centers (Robo Factories) or Time Shrine early in a Finite game until needed, it will drain resources faster. Build a few outPosts on uninhabitable planets and Asteroids for the needed boost.
~~~

Prior to researching Astrophysics and Stellar Manipulation (before Warping out) remember to have a strong defensive fleet, Fighter etc, you don't possibly know who is in the System you are opening. Or what AI might warp into your System in the middle of your Stellar Research. (Be prepared)

You also must decide where to open the Warp Point, if over your Home World and it happens to be AI players System you opened; then the AI can warp over near to your Home Planet and get in a few lucky Capture Planet ships and they will , now that is a Bit~

Think defensive and you should do well.

[ May 03, 2003, 18:35: Message edited by: JLS ]

[mottlee]

Still dead http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[SunDevil]

I just finished downloading the new update. I am using download accelerator. Are you using any kind of program to help you download that might support the resume or pause option?

[SunDevil]

A couple of questions

1. Fighter Tactical module is still in beta???

- I have noticed the word module in your description of additions and changes made to this new Version of the mod was just wondering what your definition of module was? Thanks.

2. "So much Resource Surplus nowhere to put them"?

- I have noticed that within your facility.txt file you are using a pretty good balance of resources for the construction of facilities. In your components.txt file which I will assume is the proportions mod Version, there really isn't much of a balance. What I have done and I don't know if this would work for finite resource game but my rule of thumb is that whatever the mineral count is I double that number and that is the required amount of organics used for the organic resource value.

My reasoning behind this is that the workforce would consume twice the amount of food for the amount work put in the construction of mineral based object. Then with the radioactives the amount is either equal to the number of minerals or if dealing with weapons or shields the radioactives number is equal to the number organics. This might prevent so much of a surplus of resources and might provide a more realistic view of constructing a space ship which contains thirty seperate components, then the usual high number of minerals needed that overshadows the small amounts of organics or radioactives. Just my two cents. Thanks for the updated mod.

[JLS]

Mottlee, I just downloaded AIC Complete in under 12min at 44.0 kbps Standard.
~~~
AIC upgrade files in less then 2 min.

I don't know what to tell you. GLV and Sundevil just downloaded not to long ago with now prolems.

Edit; Downloaded again, no Problem.

Please try again.

[ May 03, 2003, 23:32: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by SunDevil:
I just finished downloading the new update. I am using download accelerator. Are you using any kind of program to help you download that might support the resume or pause option?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, it is Standard with MSN 8 and some other D/L Programs

[JLS]

Originally posted by SunDevil:


1: Fighter Tactical module is still in beta???

- I have noticed the word module in your description of additions and changes made to this new Version of the mod was just wondering what your definition of module was? Thanks.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">'definition'... Excerpt from Mod info.
~
AI Campaign~ Incorporates-> TACTICAL FIGHTER MOD:
Fighters now move in Tactical combat only. On the Strategic map, when launched over a planet or any sector, they remain on combat patrol for that sector until recovered by a Carrier or your planet. This makes for some new and interesting strategies and designs.
~

AIC TFM is no longer beta, and the line will be removed from the readme, thanks.
AI Campaign has been in development for several months and the AIC Tactical Fighter Mod has been Tested only the Last prior to release.
Since the Release of AI Campaign less then two Months ago, there has been desires from players of certain Components or Facilities that they wish to see. So as a natural Evolution, Items are revised, Changed and added. As you can see Posted and in the AIC History file that there are revision to all modules in AI Campaign, not just the AIC Tactical Fighter Mod. Which is pretty much where we like it. for now anyway http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif


I have noticed that within your facility.txt file you are using a pretty good balance of resources for the construction of facilities. In your components.txt file which I will assume is the proportions mod Version, there really isn't much of a balance.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Component.Txt is Space Empire 4 Basic File.

Sundevil, I have Several months labor designing and testing this mod.

However, with that said. AI Campaigns v2.90 Component File is VASTLY different then any other Current MOD and other then about several Proportion specific common Components or a Facility, there is so very little in comparison to Proportions.

In regards to balance thru the AIC Component, Facility Files and others; I am able to achieve.

Excerpt, From Mod Info:
~
AI Campaign~ Incorporates-> AI BALANCE MOD Created specifically for a more challenging AI. AI balance allows the AI and Human Players to have some specific Components, Vehicles, and Abilities. Some examples are: the AI better handles mines now, point to point re-supply, faster ship training, sector scanning, Stellar manipulations, combating Plagues to name a few and does not use our fun stuff like; star liners, low level Master Computers etc.
~
This will not be found in any other Components file or existing MOD today and is unique only to AIC http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif


What I have done and I don't know if this would work for finite resource game but my rule of thumb is that whatever the mineral count is I double that number and that is the required amount of organics used for the organic resource value.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree to a certain extent.
If you notice I do use more Organics on some Common facilities and the Organic Races of course use organics on most of there Production.

However, FOOD and ENERGY expenditure are used also by the Population; Primarily in Urban Centers, Towns, Cities and The Like.
You will see this reflected in your game.

You may find that Finite Play with AIC Campaign Finite Economics Module is very unique, and is enhanced nicely with Imperial Trade, Commercial Income, Trade Centers and Asteroid Domes.


2. "So much Resource Surplus nowhere to put them"?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are quoting the AIC read me File, most People bypass this, good job http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Excerpt from AIC Read me:
~Tip~ "So much Resource Surplus nowhere to put them"?
Not a biggie in NON Finite Games but still waste is wastefulness so BUILD WAR SHIPS, Base Space Yards and a Base Repair Station is recommended early, or build some specific Resource Storage facilities, build from the assortment of COMMUNITIES (if Colonial Development is researched) this will not only use some of that surplus but will also provide more empire resource storage. Use the trade center to exchange the surplus for a needed resource. If your OK on resources and don’t know what facility to build, build a quick Research Facility then scrap them when in need for a Resource facility. Further more, grease the wheels of diplomacy by giving gifts or tribute in terms of resources (5-20kt)to another AI nation as to cultivate their relationship towards you- I want to stress how important this is- this AI can make a good Ally or a very persistent foe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 04, 2003, 07:08: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by JLS:
Mottlee, I just downloaded AIC Complete in under 12min at 44.0 kbps Standard.
~~~
AIC upgrade files in less then 2 min.

I don't know what to tell you. GLV and Sundevil just downloaded not to long ago with now prolems.

Edit; Downloaded again, no Problem.

Please try again.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I only downloaded the v2.90 upgrade files, but no problem with the link or the download.
less then a minute http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Grand Lord Vito]

JLS, thanks for the FYI reply my No Warp questions earlier.

Warping sounds like it could be interesting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Grand Lord Vito]

I found a typo in your new Religious Settlement (25).

No biggie. Although faster to build, I like the research generation better from the Colonial Settlement any way http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I think I am hooked on NO WARP-FINITE http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ May 04, 2003, 02:05: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[JLS]

Last minute I was adding Ship Yard Ability to all the Culture Centers 1500 in total for 14 and Towns 500 thru Colonial CC 2000 in total for 15. Also reducing the Space Yard Facility to 500 at the first level.

This way as you build Urban Towns and Cities with a Space Yard the Construction Rate goes up. Starting with 2000 at HW. Of course there will also be Space Yard Upgrades as well or none.

In theory this would be a breakthrough; but Alas, you can only build one space yard per Planet as per se4 rules. Unless someone knows a work around?

I absolutely can do this for the Home world with add bonuses for Races but then you would not be able to build another CC or replace a lost yard so the Idea was shelved for now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Any way, I will take care of the Typo and put it up for download after a few more days of public playing. I should also will add Orbital Ship Repair ability to the HW General Culture Centers, I qoing to do this originally for 2.90.

Thanks, GLV

[ May 05, 2003, 22:23: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Players please remember in Traits setup.

You also have the Options for the advantage and your enjoyment:

Name := Opt 1
Description := Human Player - advantage Results in: Best Home World. (plays well in any play style)

Name := Opt 2
Description := Human Player - advantage Results in: Higher Proportions of Resources (may use up resourses quicker in Finite Games).

Or both,

Please do not consider the options above a cheat, the AI doesn’t; why should you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

These are for the balanced game of your tastes, please take advantage of them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 04, 2003, 16:32: Message edited by: JLS ]

[QBrigid]

Nice Job, JLS. The way you have the Components and Facilities organized is truly neat and professional looking http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I always play with Option 1.
Neat installment, I like Having the best Home World. There is also no need to re-roll my character now if I want to try other options.

No Warp and Finite game setting options is also the way for me, this allows for a nice slow steady game pace. But I am afraid to open the warp to the next System. Do you suggest we build a Battle Station before the warp is opened. I am not going to open over my home world, instead I am going to setup a tiny Breathable Planet near the Home World to set up super defenses.

Is it also possible to add System Intel bonus to the Psychics CC like you did with the Temporals with System Research. I sent you an EMail, did you receive it?

Keep the Faith http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

QBrigid

[ May 04, 2003, 17:25: Message edited by: QBrigid ]

[JLS]

Thank you, QBrigid http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Keep an eye on your Planet Values, you may need to expand eventually.

Go with your gut in regards to the Battle Station although the AI does a pretty good job against fixed defenses and this includes Sat and Mine fields as well. This and Interceptors are the key to a good defense. It may not be wise to rely exclusively on the just Infantry now for the Colonies, a good light to Heavy Troop Vehicles mix should make for well rounded combined arms tactics in AI Campaign.

Also it may be best not to go to deep into Shields and/or Armor until you see who your rivals may be.

Also don’t forget to try the new Engineering Section Component for your Battle Station, not only will it give you a little in ship Damage Control but will do wonders for the Maintenance. The New Sick bay will also help with the Crews Combat efficiency as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The Warp Scientists also much prefer the added Engineering Section for it ability to maintain the Warp Opener http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

QBrigid , I like your Psychic CC Ideas and they also will go out with the addendum to v2.90.

GLV, I also suggest the Trade Center to be built early, but you probably already figured that, knowing you and your Economist ways http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 05, 2003, 00:08: Message edited by: JLS ]

[SunDevil]

JLS,

Three things:

1. You have put together a great mod, it is a shame that I spent the Last four days on putting together my personal mod, and now after already including and implementing four other mods realize that your mod will most likely not be compatible with all my work. So now I am going to have to use your mod as a base and then make any additions or changes to that. I wish I would of analyzed your mod a couple of days ago and saved me some work but oh well. You have definitely put together a great mod.

2. I am just curious during your research why you decided to create a tech for ai advantage and neutral advantage. I also have noticed in your vehiclesize.txt file that some of the resource values for some ships are different for the human player and the ai player.

3. Minor question: In the settings.txt file you have cd music set to false and was just wondering if there was an issue to switch this back to true?

Thanks.

[PsychoTechFreak]

Originally posted by JLS:
I do not think it wise to build Industrial Centers (Robo Factories) or Time Shrine early in a Finite game until needed, it will drain resources faster. Build a few outPosts on uninhabitable planets and Asteroids for the needed boost.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am not 100% sure, but I think the system scanners, system robos and time shrines do not drain resources faster. Because the bonus is given to the system only, it can be seen on the empire resources screen only, the planet production numbers remain the same as before. Someone likes to confirm/disprove this?

[JLS]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JLS:
I do not think it wise to build Industrial Centers (Robo Factories) or Time Shrine early in a Finite game until needed, it will drain resources faster. Build a few outPosts on uninhabitable planets and Asteroids for the needed boost.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am not 100% sure, but I think the system scanners, system robos and time shrines do not drain resources faster. Because the bonus is given to the system only, it can be seen on the empire resources screen only, the planet production numbers remain the same as before. Someone likes to confirm/disprove this?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks PTF, now I am not sure http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I think if it shows on the Planets Resource Production Screen then it adds to the Depletion for a Planet Modifier.

You are probably right about the Time Shrine and other System Modifiers.

I said you would know best http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

JLS to GLV
Although PTF is the expert in NW & Finite games,
But this is what I would try in a No Warp-Finite Game.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I new I should of kept silent http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ May 05, 2003, 14:29: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by Pocus:
Just tested a bit the mod. Can I use Starliners to transport units, or is it an house rules to not do so?

Also, will AI really uses the troops it build, or will it glasses planet blindy? I doubt a bit that you can teach them to not kill all pop.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi, Pocus.

Nope, no HOUSE RULES with in the default files.
Play anyway you want against this AI.
If you find a way to exploit this AI (within reason so your outcome will be a win); then please pass it on THRU E-MAIL please and you and I will fix it (ASAP).

Have all the mine Fields you want by the time the AI has Light Cruisers or attacks with a very large fleet your Mines and Sats are just mere target practice.
As would a Human opponents in multiplayer.
So back them up with a fleet of your own.

Make all the Star Liners and Colony ships you want, the AI will look at them as a waist of your time, however they are not, you can not win with out a very good Transportation system in AIC.
Funny how the AI likes to pick them and OutPosts off ( if he truily thought they were a waist http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

~Tip~Make freighters out of a Starliner Hull and Basic Life Support, very econmical for the Human Player.
~~

ALL AI in AIC will Capture Planets some more then Others…

This AI has the Ability and in every game with plentiful Foes should capture somebody’s Home World or two. You will see http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The AI seldom attacks Blindly, Persistent maybe.

~TIP~ Timely Trades and most Agreements with the AI, is a good road to victory in AIC.

Watch their posture toward you and watch some of the AI races play you.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 06, 2003, 14:42: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by klausD:

I just played AIC the first time and I think I like it so far. But I dont understand why the AI has several Thousands! of units (I play with visible scores) after just some turns. Is this a bug or is this a "feature" of the mod?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi, Klaus D.

If you; as a Human Player, build infantry at your Home World you would build 101 of them per turn, you can have 1000+ units your self in just 10 turns. As you can see this does add up… http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The AI is programmed for just under a 1000 units (mostly Milita Infantry) in his first 10 turns of the game. This is so it is not quickly jumped; if there is a greedy adjacent neighbor, Human or AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
As I said, this AI captures Planets.

So it is with the AI. After 50 turns and a few Colonies it will add up to a few Thousand units , several thousand by the 100 turn mark.

Tens of Thousands as you reach the 500 turn Mark…

I will let you get to the 1000 turn aand after mark to find out the rest.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 05, 2003, 16:29: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

i found out the hardway about the troops the ai uses. it took two planets from me b4 i realized what it had done. now i keep a minimum of 100 troops on all planets just so i have time to get to them with additional support as needed.
i have had to change my tactics as JLS releases each upgrade to the ai. i would never survive a pbw game because of my playing style, which is to slowly expand system by system keeping fleets at warppoints to stay isolated and no trade or research agreements. with the way the game is setup i have learned i need to have those agreements since i can no longer create massive mining bases as in the original game. thus if i want to create viable fleets and be able to maintain them then trade is necessary.
i have also learned that the best items to build are the settlements and colonies facilities. they give research, intelligence and resources all for 1 facility slot. however beware of building too many at once as when you upgrade them it is all or nothing. if you have 6 settlements built then when you upgrade it is all 6 at once and that can take 2-5 years depending on you construction rate.

[JLS]

~Tip~ Make economical freighters to Carry units.
Use the Star Liner Hull.
Use Basic Life Support not Population Life Support Module
A few engines and a little Supply…

~Tip~ Have a few Tankers full of Supply, on a Small Transport Hull.

~Tip~ Build a Repair Base Station before you make serious upgrades.

~Tip~ Utilize the Engineering Section Component where at all possible http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

~TIP~ Their is about a 10 turn payback in AIC, when mothballing, so MOTHBALL judicially.

[ May 05, 2003, 16:25: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:
i found out the hardway about the troops the ai uses. it took two planets from me b4 i realized what it had done. now i keep a minimum of 100 troops on all planets just so i have time to get to them with additional support as needed.
i have had to change my tactics as JLS releases each upgrade to the ai. i would never survive a pbw game because of my playing style, which is to slowly expand system by system keeping fleets at warppoints to stay isolated and no trade or research agreements. with the way the game is setup i have learned i need to have those agreements since i can no longer create massive mining bases as in the original game. thus if i want to create viable fleets and be able to maintain them then trade is necessary.
i have also learned that the best items to build are the settlements and colonies facilities. they give research, intelligence and resources all for 1 facility slot. however beware of building too many at once as when you upgrade them it is all or nothing. if you have 6 settlements built then when you upgrade it is all 6 at once and that can take 2-5 years depending on you construction rate.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Desdinova has a very strong points. here in his intire Post http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~~
You need Urban Communities to win; especially in finite.

However the more Towns and Cities you are Building the more FOOD and ENERGY expended from your economy to supply them. (as in the non virtual world)

Desdinova plan is solid: Build a few Urban Settlements at a time and then upgrade them to a town or Cities.

It is wise not to go past town in Colonial Development until your Economy can afford Cities.

With Refining and Agrarian Communities same thing, don’t research past Society until your Economy can withstand the increased expansion burden.
~~~~

~TIP~ If you don’t currently need Resources, set out some Research expeditions.
The Facility scrap rate to rebuild is very conducive in AIC.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 05, 2003, 16:22: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

question on finite games, i havent played one in a while. i know that each turn your resources drop. is it based on the amount you mine or a fixed amount each turn? if it is based on the amount you mine then using the urban centers would be even more useful since they dont mine but generate resources thru trade and other means. then adding on the industrial center and other bonus generation complexes would seem to be even more beneficial since they wont increase the rate of resource loss either.
EDIT: oops, i am wrong, they do use mining for part of their resource generation but then use other means for bonus resource generation. still they sound better than just mining facilities since some of their resource generation comes from other means

[ May 05, 2003, 16:52: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[SunDevil]

"What will be the new Premise or Concepts of your new MOD; that you will be using AIC as a Base for?"

-I am putting together a mod that increases the size of the planets, adding more facilities to be built, increasing the amount of resources it takes to build facilities, components and ships, and then adding the star wars race packs to the game. I have always felt that this game ("the stock Version not a mod Version.") really limits the options of planets and the amount of space and choices that are available to add facilites. The mod I am putting together is just a collection of ideas to test them out to see if it is possible within this game's structure and ai capacity to work.

The reason why I am using your mod as a base, is since you already have the ai working well, I just wanted to add my changes and not have to rework the ai to much. I am not planning on releasing anything nor would I try to take credit for any of your mod's work. I guess you could relate so of my testing to the concepts of the "primitives" thread on this board. I just trying to add more depth to this game.

"I will tie this thru the AIC setup Traits menu or tech cancel menu for v3.00 next month. In a way for Human Players to choose between Tactical or Partial Fighter Move.
The AI will be set to Tactical only but may have the option if I do this thru traits menu.
What are your thoughts on this?"

- I haven't been on this board for a very long time. Could you explain more about tactical or partial fighter move concept.

- By adding this as a trait yes, I think it would work, but you might have to make double engine components and double ship designs right?
Thanks.

"Sundevil, can you give me a hand designing a race or two for me, if so please choose one to your tastes that I have not done and use an existing as a template… Grand Lord Vito wants to do the Praetorians so any other would be a big help towards Version v3.00 the Final Release of AI Campaign with the [se4 v1.84] engine."

- Designing a new race, or an existing one that is not in your mod? I wouldn't mind doing the star wars races, but then again Andrés Lescano has done great work on this already.

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:
question on finite games, i havent played one in a while. i know that each turn your resources drop. is it based on the amount you mine or a fixed amount each turn? if it is based on the amount you mine then using the urban centers would be even more useful since they dont mine but generate resources thru trade and other means. then adding on the industrial center and other bonus generation complexes would seem to be even more beneficial since they wont increase the rate of resource loss either.
EDIT: oops, i am wrong, they do use mining for part of their resource generation but then use other means for bonus resource generation. still they sound better than just mining facilities since some of their resource generation comes from other means<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly, a fair amount of Resource depletion was setup on each Urban Community as to retain that feeling of any lost and forever bad investments in a Finite game, and to retain somewhat a decline in a Planets Potential.
Total-Trade=Resource Generation. This is the facilities depletion amount.

However the Trade and Commercial income is free and you are correct does not Deplete a Planets Resource Potential.

High out put facilities that are used in the Resource Extraction and Mining Outpost Catagory etc, will deplete a planet relatively fast.

[ May 05, 2003, 21:52: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by SunDevil:

-I am putting together a mod that increases the size of the planets, adding more facilities to be built, increasing the amount of resources it takes to build facilities, components and ships, and then adding the star wars race packs to the game. I have always felt that this game ("the stock Version not a mod Version.") really limits the options of planets and the amount of space and choices that are available to add facilites. The mod I am putting together is just a collection of ideas to test them out to see if it is possible within this game's structure and ai capacity to work.

The reason why I am using your mod as a base, is since you already have the ai working well, I just wanted to add my changes and not have to rework the ai to much.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I like it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif , I would like to help if, possible from time to time.


I haven't been on this board for a very long time. Could you explain more about tactical or partial fighter move concept.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I designed the Tactical Fighter mod for AIC because the AI does a poor job with Fighter inter system travel, actually it does nothing. TFM was designed to balance this, as it turns out it works out very nicely with Fighter Stacking as well.

PvKs Version; I believe will be more in line of an Excellent Compromise , where in early stages the Fighters will move in Tactical only then with some advanced research move as default se4. The only way to go in Multiplayer and has much merit in Solitaire Play, assuming the AI has time to Research and setup sufficient Point Defenses.

Other wise as it is in base se4, this is not good for the AI because the Human player can anchor his fleet just one sect away for the AI Home World and BLast his Planet to bits with waves of fighters then follow up with the Troops. With no recourse to his Carriers or Troop Ships.

In Tactical, the Human Player must Commit; possibly with a lose; in some, most or all his ships, most certainly a loss to some, most or ALL Troopships…


- Designing a new race, or an existing one that is not in your mod? I wouldn't mind doing the star wars races, but then again Andrés Lescano has done great work on this already.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed, now that I know what your goals are, Andrés Lescano has done an Awesome Job, why change anything. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Also the AIC files are not the same as another mods and visa versa or base se4.
For example. The design component calls are not in sequence with the other Files.
Most AI setting are based on the AIC maps.
Which are tied into the Quad and SyS files.
Anger files are also related to AI design and Planet type strengths.
The all General files have Tie Ins.
The Trait file has Tie Ins.
All construction Files must be AIC conformed.
The Component File Has Tie Ins.
The Facility File has Tie Ins.
The Vehical File Tie Ins.
Basicly every file must be related.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif
My god, good luck

[ May 05, 2003, 23:13: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Pocus]

Just tested a bit the mod. Can I use Starliners to transport units, or is it an house rules to not do so?

Also, will AI really uses the troops it build, or will it glasses planet blindy? I doubt a bit that you can teach them to not kill all pop.

[klausD]

I just played AIC the first time and I think I like it so far. But I dont understand why the AI has several Thousands! of units (I play with visible scores) after just some turns. Is this a bug or is this a "feature" of the mod? (I looked at the vehiclesiz.txt and the AI balance data indicated that eg AI-fighters cost only 1 mineral or so, while human players pay 10 - but I am not sure if this is the reason of so many AI-units)

maybe one of you could give me some info about this. Thanks alot.
KlausD

[JLS]

Originally posted by SunDevil:


1. You have put together a great mod, it is a shame that I spent the Last four days on putting together my personal mod, and now after already including and implementing four other mods realize that your mod will most likely not be compatible with all my work. So now I am going to have to use your mod as a base and then make any additions or changes to that. I wish I would of analyzed your mod a couple of days ago and saved me some work but oh well. You have definitely put together a great mod.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thank You very much SunDevil http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

What will be the new Premise or Concepts of your new MOD; that you will be using AIC as a Base for?

For example: PvK promises to be coming out with a semi tactical Fighter Modifications that allows Partial to full fighter Movement for his Proportions Mod and it sounds fascinating. He has asked me to wait, and I am sure his improvements; will be well worth the wait. If not released soon by PvK; some players have asked me to install an alternate fighter movement until PvK’s release, and one must be thrown togeather.
I will tie this thru the AIC setup Traits menu or tech cancel menu for v3.00 next month. In a way for Human Players to choose between Tactical or Partial Fighter Move.
The AI will be set to Tactical only but may have the option if I do this thru traits menu.
What are your thoughts on this?

Version 3.00 AIC; due out next month. I still need to expanded Component, Facility and Tech tree.
And the AI toned down even a little more.
But first. Public Play will determine the Mid and End Game by there feed back of averaged play.
Allowing me to get the Right Techs out; at evolutionarily, the right time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
For example: If Race A has access to the {Silver Bullet} weapon, then I must make sure that race B has the time to at least have the [option] available to counter the {Silver Bullet} weapon before I add seventeen tech levels to it.

All the se4 original races will be added as well.
Atrocities has authorized that I may do a Star Trek AI, for AIC.
The Credits file Completed.
QBrigid is going to go over the Read Me file and neaten it up.
And much more http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
=======


3. Minor question: In the settings.txt file you have cd music set to false and was just wondering if there was an issue to switch this back to true?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">AI Campaign crunches more numbers then base se4 and most other Mods so I defaulted CD music to off.

Depends on your systems resources and your desires.
Most play with music off after a while.
Sure, turn it on, if you like http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
=======


2. I am just curious during your research why you decided to create a tech for ai advantage and neutral advantage. I also have noticed in your vehiclesize.txt file that some of the resource values for some ships are different for the human player and the ai player.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In regards to Advantage, the Human Player has some extra choices in the Traits Menu to taylor their game before starting.

As this applies to the AI; as you can see, my programming allows the Trait to be an extra:
(2) a throttle for the AI Supply Range and (3) Throttle for AI Production.
Throttles may be fine tuned (in file) by the Players or Myself.

Other then that, there is no such (Advantage tech) area.
~~~
In regards to AI Balance Tech. My programming here is the Cornerstone for the AI in AIC’s AI Balance MOD as it Ties every aspect together.
It now offers the AI the Abilities to better sweep mines, Planetary Bombardment, Sector Scanning etc. In regard to AI Productive Stellar Manipulations and Transports pop, sat & mine launchers etc. I do want it low. But in regards to AI Offensive SM it is the same as Humans (use it or loose it) do to se4 engine programming the AI can not Moth Ball as Humans do, I am able to reduce there costs so they may build the device even though they may never use them, since the only trigger for the AI to Build vehicles is the way the Modder sets up the MODS Construction File. As Master Belisarius has said and in which many of us agree and hope for, is that the AI will get triggers with some intuition in the next se5 engine.

AI Balance tech is really not their for the AI advantage, unless you think the AI should be pined behind a Human Player mine field or sacrifice ship after ship banging its head against it. Same applies to Resupply, thru the se4engine the AI must turn back for resupply at an early condition, were as the Human Player can Calculate the next fuel stop and get there on vapors.

Same applies ~"~,well, AI Balance Mod attempts to address several other areas, as you can see.
~~~

In regards Neutral Balance; as you notice it is a disadvantage not an advantage. This is for the Neutrals only to have Smaller Home Worlds so they are weaker then the Rest of the AI from the go.
This helps with AI diplomacy and a few other areas in AIC. Also if the Neutrals Home Word is captured it is not as big of a Hit to the overall advantage of the capturing Race and there are a few more tie ins with my programming.

A future Neutral Ship Set or AI designer now also has the ability to add a Racial Trait or some Characteristics. With this disadvantage in place; the Neutral turning will not be turned into a Power http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

As I did with the Nultoh Group by adding Psychic Trait, just to match his eyes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Name := NEU
Description := !ONLY AI SHOULD TO TAKE THIS TRAIT! For Neutral AI Pre-Game Point Set up.
Pic Num := 0
General Type := Disadvantage
Cost := -1600
Trait Type := Planet Storage Space
Value 1 := -20
Value 2 := 0

I hope my explanations, were helpful?
~~~

In regards to the vehiclesize.txt file in respect with your expressed question and as it applies to the AI in AIC, this is primarily a progression of settings to the AI for the:
{LATE END GAME} AI SHIP THROTTLE and must be reset with extreme CAUTION…
The setteings will determine a 1000 turn game going bust by an over bearing AI or a cake walk for the Human Player, both; a very poor situation for a designer. So go with the averages here.

My goal here (initially) is for the AI to beat the Solitaire Human Player 1 out of 3 games or better when END GAME play is reached.
~
2: The AI to win Two out of Three when in the Mid Game and/if the Human wants to try the bonsai approach on the AI.

3: The AI to win Three out of Five games in the opening when a Violent AI is adjacent to a Human Player.
If this is the case, in a random game and the Human Player is in adjacent systems, the Human has less then 50 Turns {5years} to get his act together for the most part, when next to the HIVE, Crystalline etc. as if it was next door to a Human Player; we can’t see to many Human Players as I giving to much quarter to another Human Players, what would you say?

In the above scenario. The Human Player only Priority MUST build a strong defense and or offence to counter the neighboring Violent AI race and if so the Human Player May have the WIN if not he will loose.
All the Computers and Infrastructure Techs will not save him in the early game. I doubt a Central Computer will do much damage to the AIs hull.
In regards to increased infrastructure just neater buildings for the AI to capture or glass.

I also have less apparent events that may occur during your AIC game
By design and by
'Wow', get a look at that, what made that happen http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

~~~
Sundevil, can you give me a hand designing a race or two for me, if so please choose one to your tastes that I have not done and use an existing as a template… Grand Lord Vito wants to do the Praetorians so any other would be a big help towards Version v3.00 the Final Release of AI Campaign with the [se4 v1.84] engine.

[ May 05, 2003, 20:21: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

I like Finite but I don’t like No Warp games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

The Religious Culture Center is way to powerful http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

The abundant organics are http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif neat trick

[ May 06, 2003, 18:09: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[JLS]

Whats this I see about you pulling a fast one on the AI…
What, you wont give Queen Triana of the Sergetti Empire, her revenge.
She will warp in on you, anyway http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Or is it that you are afraid to get beat by a Lassie especially an AI Lassie http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
~~~

What is it, about No Warp games you dislike?


The Religious Culture Center is a wee powerful in Non Finite, and this Version is designed Primarily for Solitaire.
Also only Human Players get a Religious CC.

Impressions are so far, is that the Religious trait is well received.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 08, 2003, 23:33: Message edited by: JLS ]

[SunDevil]

JLS,

When I start a game and it doesn't matter which race I pick, it seems that my homeworld is full of cultural centers. I can assume that the ai's homeworld is then also filled with cultrual centers and was wondering if it was beneficial for my homeworld to be full of cultural centers or should I recycle some and get more resources and build something else? And does the ai sooner or later recycle some of their cultural centers and rebuild something else? Thanks.

[JLS]

Good Question, SunDevil http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

This is true, you do have several Culture Centers types and each will have its own special abilities in AIC; depending on your Racial Traits chosen when you started your Character.

In most games when started; you may have up to 3 quick viable scraps.

1: Distribution Center. This is inherent with the CC and should be Scraped at your earliest Convenience.

2: Space Dock. This is also inherent with the CC and should be Scraped at your earliest Convenience.

~Tip~ Possibly a research expedition, an advanced Settlements that can be upgraded to Towns and Cities, Computers, Planetary Shields, a needed Resource Colony, Planet Value Plants, etc. may be built as new Construction for above.

3: Space Yard Facility. This will require more thought as it applies to your current games events and Progress. For example: what is your current Ship Yard rate on your BSYs orbiting the Home World. Do you have a few Construction Colonies already built up and the Home Worlds Space Yard is now possably redundant and a newly acquired Devise or Facility may be far more profitable and/or beneficial http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
A lot of players like to make tough Decisions and do like this aspect http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

It is possible to Set up AIC to have less Cultural Centers, what would you suggest be added in its Place. In the start of the game there is no facility near as Productive as your Home Lands Population Center, just as it is with Europe, the Americas, Asia~ well, all the continents in our World.

Now as time goes on in your AIC game, you may find other viable reasons to rebuild a Structure, in the Place of what may become an old and antiquated Population Center. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

~Hint~ When you scrap a Home Worlds Culture Center you will have the benefit of its very conducive Recycle Value. When in a jam this could be a Last Mobilization effort.

However this is also arranged in AI Campaign as an evolutionary choice. You must reach an Infrastructure Capability to except this premium fully. It is also best to have a cost-per-effect alternative build.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 09, 2003, 00:15: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

I never knew how to save a turn before, in a way I could always go back to that spot, in a simultaneous game before you posted that. Works for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif


Also, what’s this I see about you pulling a fast one on the AI…
What, you wont give Queen Triana of the Sergetti Empire, her revenge.

She will warp in on you, anyway.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With all this time into the game, just to warp in on a bad guy. Besides this was my first No Warp game. Its fun and it is sure scary not knowing what Pandora’s box that you will be open in the next System.

Sergetti has not warped in, she will be in for a surprise when she does.

I think my biggest problem with my No Warp game is I set for many AI Players. Should of left it at default.

When this game is finished, I am going to go back to just Finite, with out question, AI Campaign is the best way to play Finite in any form.

If only Human Players get a Religious CC then I guess it is ok. It is great in Finite no doubt here. I will finish this game then play AIC in just Finite mode and let you know.

I usually build a few towns then upgrade all the way to the New CCs late in the game to replace the early home world scraps.
When I replace the SY it is with the Temporal type. With this, you can replace the old original CCs faster.

[JLS]

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:

I usually build a few towns then upgrade all the way to the New CCs late in the game to replace the early home world scraps.
When I replace the SY it is with the Temporal type. With this, you can replace the old original CCs faster.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed, Temporal Yards can crank out the Urban Centers.

[SunDevil]

JLS,

I am fifty turns into a really good game of my mod that I am playing around with and I switched all the computer players over to human control just to get an idea of how they are doing and I have noticed that your revised AI mod does include some races. For instance the Praetorians do not have any facilities on their planets. Now I assume that this can be explained by the fact that in their general.txt file they are not given the ai optional picks to select the ai regulated tech that you have created for your mod. I was just wondering what your intent was for these types of ignored races and was curious if you had documented this in your readme and I was just blind not to see it. The races that you have edited are kicking butt and are doing quite well. Thanks for a great mod and any feedback would be appreicated.

[JLS]

Thank you. SunDevil http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The reason that the Non AIC races are loosing of course, is that your added AI races are not programmed for the AI Balance Module. For example: Mine sweeping, Tactical Fighter designs etc.

They are also Primarily loosing because the Non-AIC design files are not loading: Plate armor, Planetary Weapons the right Sensors, Infantry or even transports; troop or other wise and many more components correctly. This is due to the way AIC ties most design functions of the AI from the AI Balance Module.

Same applies to facilities. Your non-AIC AI that you put in your game was not Programmed to take advantage of the Finite Economics Module in AI Campaign.
For Example: Specific race Culture Centers, towns, Cities etc.

Please note: This is no reflection to the un-modded race or races, that you may use.
That are absolutely fine in there MOD or Base group. All race AI must load from there Parent Mods files, so any other race will be at a disadvantage in AIC and Visa Versa.
---
There is a brief sentence in the AIC README that future upgrades will have the full complement of se4 races as well as some Races from other designers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

We are currently working on the seven uncompleted se4 Races at this time.

edit 5-17-03:
AIC v2.91 all se4 races are completed...

[ May 17, 2003, 20:04: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Players Feed Back please.

In the next upgrade, do you think we should include Ship Repair Capabilities on the Human Players CC. This would be on average 6 or more Component repairs from your Home World at the start of the game.

Or is it best to leave Repair to the new Orbital Repair Base Station..

Play testing has shown it is not; to big of an advantage to the Human Player and I am leaning towards, giving the Repair Capability to the General Population Centers.

What do you-all think.

[ May 10, 2003, 15:34: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

would you still leave the system maintenance facility or would that be removed? the system maintenance facility's ability to generate minerals in addition to its other 2 abilities makes it one of the first facilities i build, usually the 2nd or 3rd facility. on the homeworld i usually scrap the spacedock and replace it with the smf.

question on no warp games: about what turn should the ai begin building warppoint generating ships? i am on turn 112 and so far no other race has developed them. i have made the settings so i can compare all races and so far i am the only one that has more than 1 system. all of the other races outnumber me on ships, bases and units.

edit: john i am sending you modified tech area and facility files for midlevel tech starts.

[ May 10, 2003, 18:34: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

I agree with Destinova, I also really like the System Maintenance Facility. The Repair Ability on the Pop Centers will make AIC easier for the Human Player if this is what you are looking for. This is not a bad idea because the frontier repair yards will still be needed.

In my warp game, Destinova the Eee had his Second System before the 12th Year. The Terrans were the real expansionists, they showed the 2nd System around the 15th Year followed by another race every few years, or so.

[Desdinova]

thanks. i will have to look at the other races then and see why they are not doing this in mine.

[ May 10, 2003, 20:32: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[JLS]

Thanks, Desdinova.

I received your Files, they are great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The System Maintenance Facility will always be in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Orbital Repair Ability may be put on the General Population CCs only.
As a Temporal or Dual Race Player, for example; you will have the Bonus that you now get on your Temporal CCs, Plus (other if dual CC) plus an extra 6 Repairs at the HW from the General Pop CCs.

Where as a Non Racial Trait Player will get about 12 Repairs plus the Bonuses that are enjoyed from that Cultural Center, on that Home World.
~
This makes it easier for New Players that May Choose to reduce there Repair Percentage by Culture or Characteristic.
As well as some added bonus for the Non Racial Trait Human Players CC.
--------------------

AI WARP Schedule: AIC v2.90 Files.

Science Races. Early about 10 Years
Engineering Races. About 15 Years
Merchents Races. Under 20 Years
Aggressive Races. Around 20 Years

Above is not an absolute for many reasons.

Other AIs are rated by how Friendly they may be to a Human Player.
The more Violent the AI is; the latter they will warp. None before 25 Years.
In this way resulting in a more relaxed game for the Human Player.

Of course while you were researching Stellar Manipulation etc. that Violent AI is researching Weapons, Fighters and Ships.
So if you warp into a Violent Race's HS, he will be more then prepared http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

There (by your warp) goes your relaxed game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Right GLV http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The Xenophobic Races will WARP very Late.

Also depending on the {AI Strategy State} after First Contact with a Human or another AI, that AI Player may not warp again until its; AI State readjusts.

[ May 13, 2003, 12:00: Message edited by: JLS ]

[QBrigid]

JLS,

Almost finished with the Sallega Race designs, the ship designs are looking good.
JLS are you almost done with the AI for them. We cannot wait until they are in the game.
The v2.91 beta file you sent, was just Facility and some AI files when are you going to send Desdinova’s Medium Level Tech Start game enhancement file, it sounds great.

Prefer that we did have the Repair ability on the General Population Centers.
Thanks for adding the new abilities to the Psychic Population Centers.

So far, the No Warp game is smooth, with view all players on as you asked, most players have 2 or more Systems, and there are no other Races in my Galaxy Cluster.

[ May 13, 2003, 14:24: Message edited by: QBrigid ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by JLS:


Praetorian - GLV In testing
Sallega - QB In testing
Toltayan - GLV In testing
Fazrah - In testing.
Norak - In testing
Krill – Started
Jraenar - Started

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Looks like all the Races, will be done this month. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Thanks, for the help with the Design Files and the ideas for their individual personality quirks on your new races, most of which can be done http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I sent a copy of Desdinova’s Medium Level Tech start game ideas. Please give it a test drive, it has some neat ideas.

[ May 13, 2003, 12:04: Message edited by: JLS ]

[QBrigid]

Originally posted by JLS:

I sent a copy of Desdinova’s Medium Level Tech start game ideas. Please give it a test drive, it has some neat ideas.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Desdinova has the MedLevel Start set perfect for No Warp games. I am Ready to start another No Warp game, now that I know what I want to do.

[ May 13, 2003, 14:32: Message edited by: QBrigid ]

[Desdinova]

wish i could take credit for it, but JLS had to go back and modify my file to work properly with no warp. all i did was try to up the starting techs to 25% of max for mid level games. but i am trying no warp again and see if this game the other races will try open warppoints.

[Desdinova]

JLS,
a question was brought up in this POST (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=009052) about the images. would there be an objection to sending your graphics and have them added to the huge graphics files. i know it would mean having to go thru all the files and renumber them which i would be glad to help with.

[ May 13, 2003, 23:06: Message edited by: DESDINOVA ]

[JLS]

Agreed, Desdinova, however it may be best now we complete AI Campaign, this way we will know what will be in v3.00, and what may be tossed. If you would like, we can consider this at a latter date.

As it stands now, the pic files are a modest 49kb per pic. With a total AIC download time under 10 minutes at 44.0 Kbps standard dialup.

Also ALL/MOST the files in AIC; the Basic se4 descriptive info have been deleted, right from AIC’s very first Release. This over all saves a very big chunk of space and reduces the full AIC download time, under 10 minutes at 44.0 Kbps standard dialup. If a player wants to read any of the redundant data, he may go to any of the original se4 files.

[ May 14, 2003, 15:18: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by QBrigid:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JLS:

I sent a copy of Desdinova’s Medium Level Tech start game ideas. Please give it a test drive, it has some neat ideas.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Desdinova has the MedLevel Start set perfect for No Warp games. I am Ready to start another No Warp game, now that I know what I want to do.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Desdinova, has done a great job with the AIC tech file, and it will work great, when a Player wants to start an AI Campaign game with a lot of assorted techs as an option, with Desdinova's improved Medium Tech Level start game option, one can http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

As it is now, v2.90 the AI is set up for a default and Med Tech starts in any AIC style game. This will work fine.

Desdinova, is taking it to the next level; and is still adding more options to that file; to enhance the Human Players experience in AIC, however this will also require some AI reprogramming, and it all should be released with the full complement of se4 races; in AIC v2.91 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 14, 2003, 14:53: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Fyron]

Drone Jacketed Photon Engines do not become obselete.

Basic Life Support has 2 abilities, but it's num ablities line says 1, so the combat penalties are unused.

[ May 14, 2003, 19:38: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[JLS]

Thanks Fryon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
You have the eyes of a hawk http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 14, 2003, 22:51: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

=====================
AI CAMPAIGN v2.90 UPGRADE
=====================

May 01, 03

Conceptual:
NEW* Commercial Income Value assigned on some facilities with AIC Finite Module.
NEW* Organics are abundant and Radioactives are more rare in the AIC Universe. However all Industrial Space yards always receive priority of all goods.

Improved* Finite Friendly (Dual plus) Race Class CCs~ DESdinova
Lowered some AI's income in the AI Balance Module .
Revised some Imperial Trade Income Values for AIC Finite Economics Module.
Some revisions in AIC Tactical Fighter Module.
Lowered Some AI Mine Sweeping Abilities in AIC AI Balance Module.
Adjusted AI (theoretical AI intertraded) Colonizer Modules in AIC AI Balance Module.
Lowered AI Open Warp distance in AI Balance Mod.
Human Player Evolution rate increased about 10-20% overall.
Added AIC General Trait-Tie Racial Construction to Settlements.

Facilities:
NEW* Racial class Settlements.
NEW* Planet Lore for the Organic Race.
NEW* Religious Culture Center for the Human Player.
Revised Urban Family Progressions and costs.
Added another Nature Shrine Level for Religious Races.
Added more Abilities to all Culture Centers.
Increased level 2 and 3 Research Facilities about 25%.
Lowered Construction cost of Resupply Depot 20%
It is also faster to build a Space Port also about 25%.

Components:
NEW* Repair Base Station Component's ~ Des and PTF
NEW* Miniaturized Life Support replacing HLS ~ PTF
NEW* Fighter Solar Collector ~ LAN
NEW* Engineering Section ~ Krsqk
NEW* Sick Bay.
NEW* Basic Crew Quarters.
Added two new early Warp Open Components for Human Players.
Extra levels for the Combat Bridge ~ GLV
Revised some Fighter Weapons and Tech Requirements ~ GLV
Added Fighter shield level with all revised sizes ~ Oleg
Added Fighter Armor ~ Oleg
Revised SYS Component Repair ~ PTF
Revised Some Structure KT Sizes ~ PTF
Gestation Vat Fix ~ PTF
Medium Tech Starts Fix ~ Des
ECM VII fix ~Des
Lowered Supplemental Colonizer Module size.
Drone Launcher cargo increased.
Lowered cost and time to build for Ring and Sphere World as well as most productive SM Components.
Revised Robo-Mining Base and Ship Mining Vessels; More Profitable.

Interface:
House Keeping near Finished now with most Components and Facilities Organized.
When you scroll thru the design menu, it has a much neater and professional look. Thanks SJ, for the suggestions.

AI Files:
Slight Randomization of a few AI personalities.
I normally do not post any AI specific changes, as not to spoil some surprises.
Changed a few Political accept system AI entries~Sundevil

Notes:
No Warp style games optimized:
Reduced Sizes and Costs on some Stellar Manipulation Components.
Planetary Engineering back to se4 default tech tree.
The added research 25% expedites research time some what faster for No warp or isolated games .
Revised some AI Stellar Manipulation techniques.
Tweaked AI Research and Const Vehicle Files. (Most races are staggered, they all do not open warps at or near the same time actually some are very late openers now)
Two new Warp Open Components starting at SM Tech ONE. Opens you up to all the Systems with in your Home Cluster (6-12 systems) when Playing either Galaxies map. SM 3 will get you to the next Cluster. Note: AI initially warps its original home Cluster as well.
~
~

[ May 16, 2003, 23:15: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

=====================
AI CAMPAIGN v2.91 UPGRADE

~now available for download~
=====================

Conceptual:
Increased the ability for the AI to have a few more ships in the LATE GAME.
Increased over v2.90 for the AI only; to warp in No Warp Point Games a few more years.

Facilities:
Added Orbital Repair Ability to General CCs.
Added University of Psychic Studies to the Psychic Culture Center ~ QB.
Added Abilities for the Metropolis and World Cultural Center.
Fixed Typo on the Religious Settlement ~ GLV.

Components:
Fixed Drone Jacketed Engine ~ Fryon.
Fixed Basic LS ~ Fryon
v2.91a Lowered ALL Sick Bays Medical PreReqs.
Increase the effectiveness of the Religious Talisman.

Interface:
Inhanced Medium Tech Game Starts ~ Designed By Desdinova.

AI Files:
Space Empires Race Complement fully Completed.
Praetorian Designs ~ GLV
v2.91a Toltayan Designs ~ GLV
Sallega Designs ~ QB

Disadvatage AI = Ship Yard 2 raised to SY Tech 3
Disadvatage AI = Does not receive Warp Openers at SM 1
Disadvatage AI = It is now somewhat easier to capture some of the AI Ships.
Slight Randomization of a few AI personalities.
I normally do not post any AI specific changes, as not to spoil some surprises.

Notes:
Medium Tech Game Starts ~ Designed By Desdinova.
Allowing the Human and AI players to start the game with some advanced techs. This will make for a faster game. Great for LAN and PBEM games.

v2.91a includes Toltayan.

Systems have been named after some of those who contributed to AIC. If you wish your named removed, please E-Mail to Sullivan_JohnL@msn.com

----------------
DOWNLOADS

Please download AI Campaign v2.91a Complete if you never received your copy.

~~~

AIC Version 2.91a Upgrade files only. (Size; only 426kb)
Updates ALL AIC Versions .
( Will break existing AIC saved games)

~~~

AIC Version 2.91a Patch files only. (Size; only 426kb)
Updates AIC v2.90 only .
(Will NOT break existing AIC v2.90 saved games)

[ May 16, 2003, 23:27: Message edited by: JLS ]

[mottlee]

Well I needed a reason to start a new one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[JLS]

Thanks, Mottlee.

Yea, I remember, the server gave you a hard time downloading that friday. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Thank you for giving it another try http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 17, 2003, 18:51: Message edited by: JLS ]

[mottlee]

No Prob.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[QBrigid]

JLS, what is next for AIC?

AI Campaign v2.91 has completed the se4 races and finalized No Warp games.

[JLS]

Next, we need to increase the pace of AIC a little more.

This can be accomplished by increasing research on all Urban Centers; Communities, Cities etc. reducing the construction time for most Urban Centers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Tweaking the AI and balancing the opening game a little more in favor of the Human Player.

Finishing the house keeping and any typos still left.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 23, 2003, 16:37: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

NEXT for AIC.

The AI does play well with no bonus games and is a fun challenge in No Warp Games with a bonus set to low http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

However, the AI can be very tough with any even a low bonus, in all but No Warp games. Will you be able to tone the AI down when the AI receives a low or mid bonus in other games?

Although the AI does not handle strategic movement well, will you be adding a strategic fighter move module?

Does the AI in AI Campaign, handle games that are {started with only colonize your planet type} games?

[oleg]

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
NEXT for AIC.

The AI does play well with no bonus games and is a fun challenge in No Warp Games with a bonus set to low http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

However, the AI can be very tough with any even a low bonus, in all but No Warp games. Will you be able to tone the AI down when the AI receives a low or mid bonus in other games?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It can be done by suppling a new set of AI files tuned to the no-bonus game. But they will handicap a "bonused" AI too much. Tweeking AI for a Propotion' type mod (AIC is the one) is not easy. You must live with the AI on steroids and consider it as an honorable challenge to your mankind http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
(Have you ever saw a movie with a good guy holding an advantage over the evil antogonist? )

[ May 24, 2003, 15:03: Message edited by: oleg ]

[JLS]

Have you ever saw a movie with a good guy holding an advantage over the evil antogonist? )
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Excellent point, Oleg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

~~~
Oleg is correct, if the AI vehicle construction file was changed so that the AI would make less ships and bases initially, but this may lead to a deficiency of ships and bases late in the game and what if the AI must defend itself versus a determined Human Player or even intimadate another AI Player early in a game.

GLV, I also played an AIC No Warp game with the AI set for a Low Bonus and it was a very winnable, but a hard challenge http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~

The AI Bonus, was originally set up to be used, in reference with AIC, so that when we played LAN games the AI will be better balanced.
For Example.
No Multiplayer ~ Bonus set to NONE.
LAN with 2-3 Human Players and 4-6 AI Players ~ Bonus set to LOW.
LAN with 3 or more Human Players and a few AI Players ~ Bonus set to Med or High.

As it is now (v2.91) with no bonus, the AI plays the experienced player a really good game.
Nevertheless, this is of little help to the New AIC player with a little se4 experience and the AI from AIC can be overbearing.

I am testing ways now to increase AI Campaigns pace and increasing the speed of Human Player evolution.

Slowing even hampering the AI Players (early) evolution so the AI Players will have less potential in none bonus game. Thereby creating the same effect as the AI player plays now; but in LOW bonus starts. Reserving AI medium and high bonus for Multiplayer game balance.

This above, with the existing Human Player racial options One and Two should set a positive tone for all new Players to AIC. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

=

I am not sure if or when we should implement strategic move for fighters, it is simple enough to add to AIC.
However, I enjoy playing Proportions MOD in Multiplayer with friends and there is were Strategic Fighters, are at its best.

=

The AI absolutely handles the [Colonize Home Planet Type only ] starting game settings very well, indeed. Perhaps to well, in AI Campaign.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 24, 2003, 19:17: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

=====================
AI CAMPAIGN v3.00 UPGRADE
=====================

Exponentially increases Game Play.
AI Bonus Levels, and Strategic Fighters added

Conceptual:
Tripled starting research totals for the Human Players.
NEW* Strategic Fighter Movement as a (free) trait option and can be removed for multiplayer.
Revised AIC Tactical Fighter Mod to incorporate Strategic Fighters (More equipment is now be added).
AI is now less over bearing in None and Low computer Bonus games.
AI sweeps fewer mines in None bonus games. (Human player Mine fields are more effective early)
Metropolis and higher urban centers complete with orbital repair.
Human Players Evolution Increased.
Slowed AI Players Opening game Evolution.
Slightly slowed AI Players Middle Game Evolution.
Increase to the AI Players Late game Evolution.

Vehicles:
New* Large Starliner (To increase games Colony expansions)
Ships image in Extras folder.

Facilities:
Increased research for most Urban Centers.
Decreased construction times for some Urban Centers and Research Facilities.
Easier to Build and upgrade Multiple Levels of deferent types of Urban Centers at the same Time.
New* Added Urban Center level.
New* Racial Cities.
Revised AIC Religious CC for multiplayer considerations.
Lowered Construction Cost for Space Ports.

Components:
Religious Talisman can be placed on a variety of vehicle types.
Resupply Pod fixed ~ QBrigid
NEW* SM 1 Create Small Sized Planet, for the Human Players.
Lowered some additional non-destructive Stellar Manipulations Components Costs.

Interface:
Reduced the remove Tech options list as not to inadvertantly break AI and for a neater look.

AI Files:
Slight Randomization of a few AI personalities.

Notes:
Increased the beginning sy construction rates slightly for new colonies.
Lowered Med Starliners Tech Requirement (enters Game earlier.To increase games Colony expansions)
Lowered research of Computer Techs to se4 default of 50k.
Reduced un-Mothball rate, so too break even is about one year.

Computer Bonus that is set for Default=NONE: AI plays very well.
Computer Bonus that is set for Low: AI is a challenge.
Computer Bonus that is set for Medium: AI is Very challenging.
High Computer Bonus. (Recommended For some Multi Human Player Games)
Tweaked most AI Files.

AI Campaign plays smooth and develops faster now in LAN multiplayer games, with AIC v3.00.

----------------
DOWNLOADS

Please download AI Campaign v3.00 Complete if you never received your copy.

~~~

AIC Version 3.00 Upgrade files only. (Size; only 215 kb)
Updates ALL AIC Versions .
v3.00 is a FULL upgrade. ( Will break existing AIC saved games)

~
~~~
~

[ May 30, 2003, 19:40: Message edited by: JLS ]

[QBrigid]

I have been playing all night, how do I stop http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

How does AIC v3 play with a High Tech Cost start?
Is at the same pace as v2?

[Grand Lord Vito]

QBrigid, I could be wrong but the research progression when playing a game with High Tech settings looks about the same as v2.xx. Are you still playing your games in No Warp?

I am still playing my old 2.91 Finite game, tonight I am going start a new regular game with 3.00.

[ May 31, 2003, 17:05: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

JLS, you did not rename and package the Medium Starliner in the extras folder.
That’s all we have to do is rename the old large starliner to medium?

[QBrigid]

GLV, I like the slow steady pace and the not knowing of NO WARP games. I also like the nice slow pace of AIC v2. Now is a good time to start a High Tech Cost game, since my best planet was just wiped out by a level 3 plauge http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Spoo]

The portraits for the starliner and large starliner provided in the extras folder are too big. They are 200x200 pixels while they need to be 128x128. I haven't checked the other images.

[ June 01, 2003, 06:25: Message edited by: Spoo ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

I agree Spoo, the close up of the AIC supplied Star Liners, sure are close.
What I did, was to barrow another Transport set from a different Race Set that is not playing in my games.
My personnel Ship set is Earth Alliance.
Also, from the Rage Ship Set:
The small Transport is perfect for the Small Starliner
The Large Transport is perfect for the Large Starliner
With the new Medium type Star Liner in AIC. The Colonizer works great for the Medium StarLiner, from the Rages Ship Set http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

QBrigid, I do like the faster pace of AIC v3.00. Its No Warp games that are to sloooow http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Do you also play both Finite and No Warp at the same time, QB? Let us know how your game is going.

JLS, I played a game Last night with Crystal Tech. Do you think they now need a Facility boost?

I also like the new Strategic Fighters addition.
Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[JLS]

Originally posted by Spoo:
The portraits for the starliner and large starliner provided in the extras folder are too big. They are 200x200 pixels while they need to be 128x128. I haven't checked the other images.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yea, the Supplied [extras] Star Liners are basically still the way I received them;~ Spoo.
When Atrocity has some time, he may make a set of Star Liners for all Basic se4 Races, I also think Dogscoff may have something in the works. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Any ship set designers want to volunteer, to help out, with some new Star Liner designs?
---

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito: JLS, you did not rename and package the Medium Starliner in the extras folder.

I played a game Last night with Crystal Tech. Do you think they now need a Facility boost?

I also like the new Strategic Fighters addition.
Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Consider it done. I will take care of the Star Liners tonight.

Partially in agreements here, although the Armor Skip is an advantage in this armor latent Mod and were good Maintenance modifiers are also the premium, the Crystals could use a little boost to make up for the restructured distribution of the Crystalline Restructuring Plant rates.

Crystalline is usually my racial choice in most games, and I find that they play well. However, they can be beefed up for Finite play, this way the Religious trait is not always the alternate trait choice, in Finite.
How about we add a Crystalline (RAD) Value Improvement Plant, at a reasonable Crystalline Technology requirement, 1=1%, 3=2% and Tech 5 = 3% ; For Planet radioactive value improvement.
What are your thoughts?

Thanks, the Strategic Fighters are a fine addition to AIC. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
---

Originally posted by QBrigid:
my best planet was just wiped out by a level 3 plauge http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Don’t you just hate that, I bet you will have a new found priority in building system Bio Hospitals;~ QB. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
~
~~
~

[ June 01, 2003, 17:37: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

The Crystalline Value Improvement Plant sounds like a fair boost.

JLS, the AI seems to play a fair game with no bonus, is there a way to slow the AI's early expansion down a little for the AI low and medium starts?

[ June 01, 2003, 21:55: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[JLS]

Sure GLV the AI expansion can be programmed, they seem reasonable now.
It may be perceived differently from game to game, if you are boxed in-between a couple of Rock AIs and if they are Aggressive then yes, they will expand quickly.

I have a few LAN pals that like to colonize early, as long as they do not crowd me, I let them go. It applies to the aggressive AI in AIC as well; you will have to compete for planets when next to an aggressive AI. Do not give unwarranted Military agreements where they will just use your refueling bases to expand even further. Build mine and sat fields at choke points, back them up with a fleet and or base and then ask the AI for a peaceful treaty reduction that will keep them out of your Systems and space (non aggrssion) for example. However, timing is everything. The most aggressive, merchants and trader AI's wants (refueling rights) treaties; so expect them to eventually fight for more territory. Even a soft fight can cost you a system or two http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Aggressive AI races in AIC are not Violent by nature, they emulate the Human Player that likes to build a lot of Colony ships and Colonize like Crazy. True, this gives them an advantage, and if the aggressive AIs get to powerful via Planets=ship count, I will trim there AI files so they won’t have the quantity or possibly the quality in the mid or late game ships. For example the Terrans colonize prolifically, yet there ships Primary Weapon is still the DUC for the most part, yes the Terran AI have a lot of Planets but there ships may be a little weaker.

With every AIC addition, there is a chance to unbalance one or even all the AI so we all keep a close look at this (one race rules all, at all times) if this is spoted, let me know and I will tweak that race. I also have noticed in a few games that the Amonkrie may be too quick out of the gate and I have an eye on them as well.

Thanks for the feed back;~ GLV http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
The next AIC Version (v3.01), I will tweak for a slower expansion rate in Low and Med bonus games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 02, 2003, 11:16: Message edited by: JLS ]

[oleg]

JLS, who is Fryon you mentioned in credits ? You even has a star with the name Fryon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

More serous business: "normal" cultural centers have reproduction bonus of 2. Organic cultural center has bonus of 1 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Surely it should be bigger ! Since only the highst value is used, organic races have no benefit.

[JLS]

You have a Point;~ Oleg.

Starting Organic Races Population Modifiers = 3
General Population Center = 2
Agrarian Cultural Center = 1

Organic Race Specific = 8 Possible.
Medical Lab=1-3
Gestation Vats=1-5

Total Organic Population Modifiers possible = 11.
Plus another possible 5 from below. Total of a possible (was 17) now 18 when in the Home System.

- - - - -

Starting Population Modifiers for other races = 2.
General Population Center = 2.
Total of a possible (was 7) 6 when in the Home System.

- - -

All Players also may add to Population Modifiers by constructing = 5 Possible.

Bio Med Hospital Facility =1-3
Metropolis=1 Megalopolis=1 New World Cultural Center=2.

===
AIC Empire Starting Percent Reproduction := 11
AIC Reproduction Check Frequency := 10
===

Thanks, Oleg. Absolutely, I will invert the Agrarian to (2) and the General Population Center to (1).
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 02, 2003, 21:49: Message edited by: JLS ]

[oleg]

I think it would be a good idea to raise a starting storage from 50k to 80k in settings.txt. Very often I got overboard without any chance to build new storage facilities ( yes, i do have several base space yards frantically building ships, but still...)

All fighters' racial tech. torpedoes look too blant - same numbers expept for cost. I know, we must keep balance, but why not for example reduce the damage of organic torpedo and proportionally increase firing rate ? Or make temporal torpedo do half (or may be even third) but skip shield as well ?

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg: I think it would be a good idea to raise a starting storage from 50k to 80k in settings.txt. Very often I got overboard without any chance to build new storage facilities ( yes, i do have several base space yards frantically building ships, but still...)
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I just tested your 80k suggestion and it looks very good, Oleg, and this really does not take away from the overall desired economics struggle.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif


All fighters' racial tech. torpedoes look too blant - same numbers expept for cost. I know, we must keep balance, but why not for example reduce the damage of organic torpedo and proportionally increase firing rate ? Or make temporal torpedo do half (or may be even third) but skip shield as well ?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed.
Maybe we should look at the total balance of all none fighter weapons, of all the races. The races that may have a disadvantage could gain a little on Fighter weapons, what are your thoughts on this method of balance?
~
~~
~

[ June 03, 2003, 20:54: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Grand Deceiver]

JLS,

I am hoping to make a foray into making my own mod and have spent a lot of time comparing notes between the some of the major mods out there.

I noticed something new in yours that I have not see in TDM-MOD or PROPORTIONS. Fighters, and Ship\Base\Sat\WeapPlat\Drone

Ships, : TDM, PROP, AI
Planets, : TDM, PROP, AI
Ships\Planets, : TDM, PROP, AI
Ships\Planets\Ftr\Sat\Drone, : TDM, PROP, AI
Seekers, : TDM, PROP, Not in AI
Ftr\Sat\Seekers\Drone : TDM, PROP, Not in AI

Fighters :AI only
Ship\Base\Sat\WeapPlat\Drone :AI only

Question is: Can you modify the weapons target sets? Add new types of targets?
Ie.. Planets\Drones? Make one that targets Troops only?

Thanks for the help.

[Phoenix-D]

weapon types are not moddable. Nothing listed in the TOP part of any file is moddable, nor is the ability.txt file.

[QBrigid]

Originally posted by QBrigid:
my best planet was just wiped out by a level 3 plauge http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Don’t you just hate that, I bet you will have a new found priority in building system Bio Hospitals;~ QB. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It was the nasty Fazrah that hit the planet with a Bio weapon. Just after it broke its agreement with me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

[QBrigid]

JLS.
We have two nagging questions http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Why is it that your AI in AI Campaign does not scrap its bases?

AND

What specifically causes the AI to switch from exploration to infrastructure?

[JLS]

Originally posted by QBrigid:
JLS.
We have two nagging questions http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Why is it that your AI in AI Campaign does not scrap its bases?

AND

What specifically causes the AI to switch from exploration to infrastructure?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Regarding AI BASES:

AI may at some points in the game scrap some Base Ship Yards. Rarely if ever a Defense Base in AI Campaign.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Retrofit Max Percent Difference in Cost := 60 was se4 default 50%...
This is 10 percent more and helps the AI.
Actually, Human Players CAN and DO take short cuts to beat the default 50% by Staggered retrofitting, so I gave the AI a little compensation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~

Follow-up posted by Oleg:
AIC AI has construction_vehicles file optimized for non-bonused game so the problem with scrapging does not really come up. It still underutilize the available resources in bonused games though.
This is what I think. Could be wrong of course.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oleg is correct, AIC AI Construction Files are optimized for None Bonus Games and hopefully with enough versatility for most scituations that the AI will get into.

If the AI interprets that it no longer needs ships from its predefined Construction file in the near future, it may scrap a Base Ship Yards over the Home World. This is usually a good thing because when the AI decides to build/replace with the next Base Ship Yard when it changes thru the AI States in AIC, as the result may/should choose to build one BSY at a Colony that has a free Ship Yard Facility operating on that Planet. There by extending the AI’s Frontier range and overall possibilities.
This will also free up the Colonies with a Planet SY to build Units and Facilities.
. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

This is important to achieve the above results. The goal for the AI designer is to try to have the AI build/Replace it’s Base Ship Yards before the AI could build ships or Defense Bases, in this way assisting all that AI Planet SY Facilities and the Empire in a whole.
The AI designer can assign this for his/her AI in that AI's Vehicle Construction File http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Please refer to any AIC - AI Players, (not Nuetral) Vehicle Construction File.

~

~TIP~ It is also important in the AI Planet Types File, that you do not assign the AI a Colony that Builds a Planet Ship Yard Facility to early if it can be helped. There by increasing the chance the AI will build the Colony with the Planet SY assigned in another System other then the Home System, and then the next Colony with a Planet SY assigned again in the Next System from the Last, repeatedly.
This way, attempting to extend the AI’s Frontier range and possibilities.

~
~~
~

Regarding AI States:


Originally posted by QBrigid:
What specifically causes the AI to switch from exploration to infrastructure? <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">IF the AI is in the Exploration State and IF=(n) THEN the AI may switch to the Infrastructure State.

1: Other Players Seen & Enemy Near
2: Other Players Seen & No Unexplored System Nearby

I hope this is of help, QB.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
~
~~
~

[ June 05, 2003, 20:07: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:

AIC AI has construction_vehicles file optimized for non-bonused game so the problem with scrapging does not really come up. It still underutilize the available resources in bonused games though.
This is what I think. Could be wrong of course.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With respect for the AI Players, "underutilize the available resources":

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

If by turn 500 the leading AI Players have 300 Plus War Ships, and by turn 1000 it may now have many more Warships, while still building units and token facilities/upgrades.
What of turn 1500, 2000 and up in non-Finite games, that a Human Player may want to reach. If that is how long it takes for that conclusion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

This without the prospect for any further Resource Extraction Facilities or upgrades, fighting the good fight, these leading AI must be capable of operating in red for long stretches of time.

Please remember, the AI resource management in AI Campaign is optimized for a good competitive Finite Game Solo or multiplayer against this AI. The AI must be prepared for a possible conclusion to exceed well over 1000 turns in Finite http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
As such in a non-Finite game, the majority of AI players in your game may operate totally in the Black, and this is never a bad thing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

~

Also, please note, a large Resource income surplus by the AI has very little effect for that AI, other then encouraging him to stay with our designed Colony (Planet Types) choice File.

Where it can benefit, is in your Trade with this AI Player in both Research and Resource http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Would you not agree?

[ June 05, 2003, 20:26: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by QBrigid:

It was the nasty Fazrah that hit the planet with a Bio weapon. Just after it broke its agreement with me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree, the Fazrah can be Nasty in AIC, they equip there ships with Biological Weapons early, starting with Frigates… http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Trust the Fazarah; as you would trust the Xiati or the Bobroba http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Asks your self, is this Alliance to my best interests.

Always think it through before accepting any Partnership at all, with any AI in AIC as you would with another Human Player.

The Serine and Friendly Races may not directly bite you, but there is nothing stopping them from giving your charts to other Players…
Does this sound familiar in some of your past Multiplayer experiences?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 05, 2003, 22:12: Message edited by: JLS ]

[cybersol]

Originally posted by JLS:
IF the AI is in the Exploration State and IF=(n) THEN the AI may switch to the Infrastructure State.

1: Other Players Seen & Enemy Near
2: Other Players Seen & No Unexplored System Nearby<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hello, JLS. You seem to have learned a lot about the AI state switching. Could you look over this thread (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=009214)? If you know a lot more about this, I would love to hear it. Maybe you could summarize what you know and post a cheatsheet on AI states. Any assistance would be appreciated!

[JLS]

Thank you, Cybersol http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

A detailed list on probable AI reactions to scenarios can get quite extensive.

If you have a few AI related scenario questions in mind, please, by all means post, and we will see what you and I can come up with.

In regards to the thread you outlined below, it appears Mephisto and others already answered your Posts.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 06, 2003, 00:26: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Grand Deceiver]

Hi JLS,

Quick question, In your Facility.txt you have

"Trade Center X".
Ability 1 Descr := Trades for much needed resource types with High Exchange Rates. However most races may trade at more of a Bargin.(only 1 facility per Empire effective).

How do you get it to be only one per empire? Can you make components only X per empire?

Thanks

[oleg]

Originally posted by QBrigid:
JLS.
We have two nagging questions http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Why is it that your AI in AI Campaign does not scrap its bases?
... <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Certainly, JLS can answer this more accurately, but I think I have a good idea :

The working hypothesis now is that AI does not recognize its bonuses when decides to scrap ships. Thus, if AI is programmed to build more ships than it can support in no-bonus game, it start to scrap them in bonused game despite having a positive influx of resources (AI still wrongly "thinks" it is in the minus zone). It can be "fixed" by nerfing the construction files but then AI will build only a handfull of ships even in a high bonus game.

AIC AI has construction_vehicles file optimized for non-bonused game so the problem with scrapging does not really come up. It still underutilize the available resources in bonused games though.
This is what I think. Could be wrong of course.

[oleg]

double post http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ June 05, 2003, 15:26: Message edited by: oleg ]

[JLS]

This is a good question, and only an astute se4 fan would catch this. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The key word is effective … It would be pointless to build more then one Trade Center for your Empire and this is worded to instruct new Players only to build ONE for their empire.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 06, 2003, 03:46: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by cybersol:

Hello, JLS. You seem to have learned a lot about the AI state switching. Could you look over this thread (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=009214)? Any assistance would be appreciated![/QB]<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Cybersol;~ I left a few Posts behind on your thread.

I hope they are of some help.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

LINK >>> AI State Thread <<< (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=009214)

[ June 06, 2003, 03:47: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Grand Deceiver]

Dang..you had me all excited there as I was already planning on becoming famous for some really nifty components that there could only be x amount of per empire.

Oh well...back to the rowing bench for me. See if I try to point out a new landmass on the horizon again!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

On another point...could you take a look at my post a few positions down? Im still a lil confused..I still think you have a few weapons targets that do not appear in the other mods.

Keep up the good work...btw...I HATE SLOW SHIPS!!

[JLS]

Originally posted by Grand Deceiver:

Keep up the good work...btw...I HATE SLOW SHIPS!!<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks, I will scroll down and get that reply to you.

Well, it looks like Propulsion is the Tech for you then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[JLS]

Originally posted by Grand Deceiver:
JLS,

I am hoping to make a foray into making my own mod and have spent a lot of time comparing notes between the some of the major mods out there.

I noticed something new in yours that I have not see in TDM-MOD or PROPORTIONS. Fighters, and Ship\Base\Sat\WeapPlat\Drone

Ships, : TDM, PROP, AI
Planets, : TDM, PROP, AI
Ships\Planets, : TDM, PROP, AI
Ships\Planets\Ftr\Sat\Drone, : TDM, PROP, AI
Seekers, : TDM, PROP, Not in AI
Ftr\Sat\Seekers\Drone : TDM, PROP, Not in AI

Fighters :AI only
Ship\Base\Sat\WeapPlat\Drone :AI only

Question is: Can you modify the weapons target sets? Add new types of targets?
Ie.. Planets\Drones? Make one that targets Troops only?

Thanks for the help.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Regarding Fighters

Ftr\Sat\Seekers\Drone

This is added to the (Armed) Fighter Cockpit in AIC, to increase all fighters’ success with Fighters and Satellites fields and not adding to the stacking against war ships.

This is very handy assisting the assault on the AIs planets, by pinging missiles. AI Planets tend to be a very Missile rich environment in AI Campaign.

It helps only marginally against drones…

The Human Players Turreted cannon also once had this ability but it proved to be devastating to all Missiles. Therefore, it was removed and the anti-Fighter spread is all it accomplishes now, and it does this job pertinently very well, and again with out an increase in the Fighters Stacking abilities against ships.

Now, with Anti Fighter and Anti Sat Covered, I am able to add Weapon Reload Rates for the entire Primary anti-Ship; Fighter Weapons arsenal. With this done, I believe this has reduced the cursed Stack effects of fighters a bit.

~

Regarding Some Specs in se4
Sorry, as it stands now, any changes to the set:

Vehicle Type, Custom Group, Ability X Type, Ability X Val 1, Ability X Val 2, Weapon Type, Weapon Target, Weapon Damage at Rng + 20. And any change in the data base layout itself will have no effect or error out on you.

I hope this is of some help;~Grand Deceiver
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 06, 2003, 06:31: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by Grand Deceiver:
Dang..you had me all excited there as I was already planning on becoming famous for some really nifty components that there could only be x amount of per empire.

Oh well...back to the rowing bench for me. See if I try to point out a new landmass on the horizon again!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually there is an ability that is reserved (basically) as a function like this, but this is my secrete http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ June 06, 2003, 06:40: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

Originally posted by JLS:
This is a good question, and only an astute se4 fan would catch this. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The key word is effective … It would be pointless to build more then one Trade Center for your Empire and this is worded to instruct new Players only to build ONE for their empire.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">building more than one facility is effective if you need minerals. i have not checked the most recent Version as i have been on the road but from what i remember of Version 2.x the trade center generate a certain amount of resources each turn. so does the system mtce facility and one or two others. so in finite resource games or just ones where you need a few extra resources and you have the space then building these facilities would benefit you.