Some OOB issues with V3 *DELETED*

[thatguy96]

Post deleted by thatguy96

[DRG]

So I guess Helicopters are you're prime area of interest ?

There's less than 10 real specific errors here and a couple of general, non specific comments on the ARVN and NVA. The "K2 rifle lbm" comment was interesting. Telling me what number it was...now THATS helpful information. Do you think I'm going to sift through every one of the over 5000 photos we have in the game looking for it ?? Do you think I have committed to memory the contents and PIC number of every one of them? THAT'S one reason they weren't fixed. Tell me the number of the LBM I'm looking for and I'll put that on a to-do list. The bottom line here is had this list been posted two weeks ago, you would have had your fixes now

And finally, don't let little trivial things like "Cambodian aircraft using Russian rockets rather than US rockets" "really bother" you too much. Life's too short. The effect on game play is as close to zero as you'll get. When problems are identified AND the information gets to us we always aim to make corrections. If you had already brought these issues up on this forum, I apologize for missing them and I will tuck this list away for future reference

FYI there are 902 units in the US OOB, 715 in the USMC OOB, 311 in South Korea, 398 in NVA 247 in ARVN and Cambodia has 387. Total for 6 OOB is 2960 units. Percentage wise, hows our error rate ?

Don

[thatguy96]

Post deleted by thatguy96

[DRG]

thatguy96 said: I was also told at least once that in regards to South Asia you had a person to do that, which meant, at least to me, that you weren't looking for input of any kind.

I'd be curious to know where we are quoted on this forum saying that. We haven't had anyone specifically looking at South Asian OOB's in quite a long time.

If you want to report errors that's fine. I keep a list when I find reports like this, and IF the change is justified it gets done. That doesn't mean I hear about every last one of them so there will always be someone disapointed something fell through the cracks.

There are others that mod OOB's as well. Some contact us and offer specific information to improve the release OOB's, some just drop highly modified OOB's in our laps, some never contact us with information at all and just release their own OOB's. We prefer the former to the later two cases. If you have an ARVN or whatever OOB that builds on the existing OOB I would be glad to look at it some day but not at this time. We've already started work on the next WinSPWW2 upgrade.

Don

[Gooseman2448]

I don't know how I could've been more humble and still ask questions.

Well maybe if you had waited longer 24 hours before telling people who have been taking alot of flak from every side and busting A#@ to obviously satisfy very few people.

Humble does not mean RESPECT...

Besides, if they fixed everything you wouldn't be able to make your own MOD.

I'll fix mine not all of it because they have added so much but, I can make it alittle better in my opinion and release it to see if others agree. If not I am still happy.

GREAT JOB GUYS!!!!!!

[thatguy96]

Post deleted by thatguy96

[Shan]

I have to say: I like to play smaller nations, and I'm a bit disappointed by the changes that came with the new patch. Some suggestions hae been incorporated, some haven't, and it will take a lot of time to restore these minor countries' OOBs - as one can't just copy + paste the old one over the new one ( I made a parallel install, thank god), as then, all changes that came with the new version would be gone. So it will take us OOB-modifiers a lot of time to check and copy each unit from one game version to the other...

I only had time to check out some sample OOBs for changes - such as:

Saudi Arabia - still has no mechanized infantry using its IFVs: They do have 10-men squads on M-113s and Half-Tracks, as well as IFV platoons listed under armor, but no IFVs with infantry; they also still have Chieftains and M-84 tanks - AFAIK these were never used by the Saudis, only M-60s and AMX-30s; they are OK with the 'Gulf States' OOBs, as Kuwait used them both, and the Kuwaitis who fled from the Iraqi annexation in 1990 didn't hand their tanks over to the Saudis, but rather participated as a Kuwaiti force in Desert Storm in 1991.

East Germany - no more T-62s, thanks for that (they are, however,s till there, but marked with an X and nation 0, so they don't appear in the game), and the BMP-2 apparently seems to be gone completely (as I told you guys, they only had 24 units delivered) but some other suggestions from the thread havn't been included - for example, the corrected introduction date for the 2s3; the Vasiliok gun/mortar is also still there;

Austria - still no 'Jagdkommando', still has the GHN-45, which was never introduced, and now even got Centurion tanks! FYI: Austria bought a lot of 2nd-hand Centurions (and you may even see some in front of barracks or museums in Austria), but AFAIK ONLY for using the turrets as FAN bunkers,,, ask Siddhi if you need confirmation ;-)

Now - it's clear there has been a lot of improvement, but especially for those who are interested in playing the smaller nations, we'll have to contribute something to make this game even better.

[Gooseman2448]

"Now - it's clear there has been a lot of improvement, but especially for those who are interested in playing the smaller nations, we'll have to contribute something to make this game even better. "

I don't see any problem with that. These guys can't make every change to every OOB every time someone brings something up (Even with correct info). I don't think they should have to. They are working to make the game play better. Maybe after there is nothing left to do to (or able to do to) the game engine we can spend endless time nitpicking about who had what when. And nobody seems to know exactly the correct info so it is very subjective.

It has always been the MODDERS that have made games better. I think everybody's contribution is important, just not more important that the next person or the main game itself.

I suggest that if somebody wants to dedicate themselves to a country or countries then start a thread come up with real info and supportable changes. Atleast then you may have a chance to have an input on the game changes. (Is that possible Don... Andy...?) Have group heads who deal only with Don or Andy and sifts through all the info. That person deals with these threads and decides on the final OOB changes.

Then Don or Andy can decide to approve the changes or decide that it is to be an unofficial mod.

This takes the pressure off Don and Andy and puts the burden on people (like me)that would like to spend time making things better.

[Gooseman2448]

Hey thatguy96, check this site out.

Somebody had the same idea as you for SP2.

http://www.sparchive.itgo.com/vietnam/spvintro.html

Maybe you could get help to make a Vietnam MOD for WINSPMBT.

There have been Arab vs Isreali only games so why not a Vietnam based game.

[thatguy96]

Thanks for the link, unfortunately there's no contact info that I can see. I have been making serious use of Laurent Touchard's unfinished work as well. While I have refused to copy anything directly from the OOBs, I have gotten new ideas and seen things I want to consider myself from them.