Spell list for CPCS v0.9

[Burnsaber]

I had a couple more ideas. I promised that I won't do any more of these buff-spells with drawbacks, but hear me out. Besides I'm scrapping the F/S debuff-buff spell and making it jsut a regular buff-spell, so I have "slots" for more!

S/E: Mind over Matter: The caster forcefully rips the bodies some of his troops from the material plane, halfway into the astral plane. This will make the troops ethereal and hard to hit by non-magical means. However, the affected will lose the benefit of any non-magical armor as it will just slide through their ethereal bodies. The plunge to the astral plane might also attract attention from horrors beyond the veil. (Grants ethereal but destroys armor and might horror mark (mr resists?))

There isn't any large AoE grant ethereal spell in the game. You can use "Body Ethereal", but you need a lot of mages. I wondering if I should scrap the horrormarking. I'm just thinking that this could be a dat too good with "army of lead", "army gold" and "protection" to ignore the penalty.

D/W: Baptism of Hades (needs a better name): The necromancer soaks some of his troops by water from the river Styx, the stream of dead souls from Hades. Like the legendary hero Achilles, the troops will get nigh unpenetrable skin, but the stream of the dead is fickle and will grant many weaknesses too. (Grants barkskin, stoneskin, ironskin and invulnerability, giving -50% FireRes, -50% FrostRes, -75% Shockres, -100% Poisonres)

Invulnerability is out of reach to normal troops in Vanilla, and for a good reason. But this might be a balanced way to introduce it. Any thoughts if I should actually make it better? The resistance maluses are pretty crippling. Especially late game.

Originally Posted by VedalkenBear

Burn: I'm well aware of what effect Feeblemind has on SCs. That was the point.

Umm.. No? This is not a "balance" mod. Unresitable feeblemind is just no fun. And if I made it, it would jsut warp the late-game to revolve around that single spell.

Originally Posted by VedalkenBear

I had an idea for a Blood/Astral combat spell, but I don't think it can be done. Can you create a spell that does 'Astral Corruption' for the length of a combat? That is, any non-Blood spell cast has a chance to call a Horror to the battle?

Yeah, it's not possible.

Originally Posted by VedalkenBear

S/E

Spectral Blades
SE
Range: 40+
Fat: 30-
Prec: 1
NoE: 10+
Target: 1 person
Damage: 14 (AP, MR negates)
SecondaryEffect: Illusion-kill (whatever the effect of the Eye of the Void is)

If I decide to scrap Mind over matter, I'll probably do something like this. Illusion-kill is not possible however. But you just need 1 AN damge to nail those illusion(ed) bastards so a similar effect should be possible.

Originally Posted by VedalkenBear

Another option:

Summon Phantasmal Mammoth
SE (perhaps AE)
Range: 0
Fat: 80-
Effect: Battle-summon Phantasmal Mammoth

Phantasmal Mammoth
HP: 1
Prot: 0
Att/Def: 8
Mor: 15
MR: 13
Enc: 3
Size: 6
Graphic: Elephant
Ethereal, Trample

I decided not to any new units in this mod. The advantage of not using any monsternumbers/nationnumbers/sitenumbers is so good, that I'm not going to give it up. This kind of mod is best when it's 100% non-clashing with any other mod. Want use these spells with Skaven? Tomb Kings? CBM? Go ahead!

Originally Posted by VedalkenBear

D/E

Blighted Troops
Range: 30+
Fat: 40-
AoE: 1+
Damage: 30+ (stun)
Secondaryeffect: Decay

Hmm, slightly improved Ghost Grip. I like it.

Thank you guys! If you like the "Mind over Matter" and "Baptism of Hades", I should have all main spell slots filled! Now I just need 3 more UW combat spell, if they could be single path, that'd be awesome.

[llamabeast]

Yeah, "Mind over Matter" and "Baptism of Hades" both seem potentially very powerful, but also they're pretty cool - I like them.

[Aezeal]

what paths UW spells do you need?

[rdonj]

I like mind over matter. I like the effect of baptism of hades, but I don't like the idea of dousing your units in water... every battle... to make someone invulnerable like achilles, who stayed that way until he died.

[llamabeast]

When is v0.3 due Burnsaber? I thought I might make a start on the checking, but it might be easier to wait if the new version's nearly done.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by llamabeast

When is v0.3 due Burnsaber? I thought I might make a start on the checking, but it might be easier to wait if the new version's nearly done.

It will be out tomorrow with 30+ spells.

[Burnsaber]

All main spells done! Now I'll have to move my testing underwater.

So I came up with a cool idea for E/W. I'm just a bit afraid it might be unbalanced. Here it goes:

2E1W - Traveller's Curse: This spell will turn the land beneath the target in to a muddy sludge, trapping him waistdeep in oozing mire. Only when he escapes, will the victim realize the full scale of his curse. With each step the victim takes, the land under his feet will turn into this thrice-damned sludge. The cursed will have to struggle fiercly just to manage move and will be greatly hampered in combat. Unless the victim is magically reinvograted, he will eventually pass out from exhaustion. Throughout the ages, numereous heroes have been found after battle, having faced the humiliating defeat, drowned in a feet-deep puddle of mud.
Alt lev 5, R:20+, NoE: 1, Prec 10, Fat:50, UW-

I just really find myself liking the theme of this. Defeated by mud, that's just priceless.

So it Earth Grips, Slimes (halved att/def/AP) and gives Curse of Stone (moving causes d4 fatique points and striking d8 fatique points). This will pretty much screw anything without reinvogration. Perhaps I should make the Curse of Stone effect MR resists? Then it really won't affect anyone in the long run.

Originally Posted by Aezeal

what paths UW spells do you need?

These are what we have currently. The paths or path combos should be those available to UW nations.

W: Crushing Pressure, some physical damage, frightens

N/W: Ink Strike, Poison damage + blind (resisted by def, like earthquake), Small AoE, inaccurate (thanks to Vedalkenbear )

D/W: Call Drowned, summon spirits of drowned sailors. (ghosts, in rule speak)

W/A (could be W/S): Chaotic Currents, the caster takes 'control' of powerful sea currents and tries to crush his opponent with them. Even if the target survives, struggling with the currents will have likely moved him somewhere else in the battlefield. Does some physical damage and blinks opponent.

2W1E Deep Drowning:
The caster animates the sand, silt, and muck of the seabed, swirling it around his foes until the murky sludge cakes their gills/lungs, sending the victims into terrible spasms of asphyxiation.
Alt 4, R= 25+,Dam= 20+AN (Fatigue damage only), AoE= 2+, NoE= 1, Prc= -2, UW++, MR

Originally Posted by llamabeast

Yeah, "Mind over Matter" and "Baptism of Hades" both seem potentially very powerful, but also they're pretty cool - I like them.

Baptism of Hades had to be scrapped, apparently the lighting vulnerability from Ironskin overrides the frost vulnerability from stoneskin and that overrides fire vulnerability from barkskin. I made it a niche undead-healing spell since I had no other ideas. (waters from tartarus is pretty good, so your D/W mages can cast that).

[VedalkenBear]

You want the UW spells to be for the UW nations? Hmm. I had thought you wanted them so that the land nations can compete better, but that's also good...

If they are meant to be for UW nations, then Chaotic Currents (which is a neat spell) should be W/S. I don't think any UW nation gets Air magic.

I don't think the Acid spells are allowed underwater, correct? If so, E/MA Atlantis could use a F/W spell.

Acid Muck
WF
Range: 30+
Fat: 40-
AoE: 1+
Effect: Rust (Def negates)
SecondaryEffect: Strong Poison

Polluted Stream
W/D
Range: 35+
Fat: 40-
AoE: 1+
Damage: Strong Poison
SecondaryEffect: Disease (MR negates)

As for balance issues... if these spells are used, then you're changing the balance. The size of the change may not be great, but you're still changing it. Therefore, I don't see where the issue is a problem, theoretically. I realize that I generally suggest much larger shifts, and it's perfectly fine to refuse them. I am a little puzzled by the categorical nature of the balance discussion.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by VedalkenBear

You want the UW spells to be for the UW nations? Hmm. I had thought you wanted them so that the land nations can compete better, but that's also good...

Actually, I'm trying to fix the issue of seeing the same spells in underwater over and over again, but that is also a valid point. Why not do both, actually? Let's make sure that each magic path has easily castable UW combat spell, and then add some cross-path spells for the fun of it.

Let's see from the manual..

Air: Most of the lighting and illusion spells are castable underwater. Is OK, me things.

Astral: Loses only Stellar cascade types. Will be okay.

Blood: It must suck to be these guys underwater. I really feel that shark summons should be blood spells, but I'm not going to mess with vanilla spells. Let's leave this as it is.

Death: Loses some cloud spells, but retains Shadow Blast and it's ilk. Skelly spam still works.

Earth: Loses almost all of direct attack spells. I'll add one pure-earth UW spell. (Most likely crushing pressure, I'll fix the theme in spell description.)

Fire: Ouch. Ouch. It's a shame that vanilla has that useless "Boil" spell. Since I'm not going to mess with vanilla spells, I'll have to try to figure something out. I mean it's thematic for fire to suck underwater, but at least some decency!

Nature: Loses vine arrows and combat summons. I've given them a direct poison damage spell to compensate. A UW version of howl with underwater animals could also be thematic and hideously easy to make. Witness:

#newspell
#copyspell "Howl"
#name "UW Howl"
#damage "XX"
#spec "XX"
#end

Water: Will be okay, and most UW crosspaths will have it.

Originally Posted by VedalkenBear

If they are meant to be for UW nations, then Chaotic Currents (which is a neat spell) should be W/S. I don't think any UW nation gets Air magic.

Yeah, it's neat. But the blinking effect will be annoying as hell, especially if it is massed by horde of mages. But my testing also shows it to be risky. That pesky ichtyid struggled himself right next to my mystic and pierced him. But W/S is much more thematic. I'll have to ponder this.

Originally Posted by VedalkenBear

I don't think the Acid spells are allowed underwater, correct? If so, E/MA Atlantis could use a F/W spell.

Acid Muck
WF
Range: 30+
Fat: 40-
AoE: 1+
Effect: Rust (Def negates)
SecondaryEffect: Strong Poison

Thanks! Now I have my Fire UW spell. "Acidize" (note: name needs work) with pretty much similar effect. I mean, the water is already there, so it just needs some alteration by fire magics.

Originally Posted by VedalkenBear

Polluted Stream
W/D
Range: 35+
Fat: 40-
AoE: 1+
Damage: Strong Poison
SecondaryEffect: Disease (MR negates)

I'll give this the same deal as the previous one. By death magic, you pollute water that's already there.

Originally Posted by VedalkenBear

As for balance issues... if these spells are used, then you're changing the balance. The size of the change may not be great, but you're still changing it. Therefore, I don't see where the issue is a problem, theoretically. I realize that I generally suggest much larger shifts, and it's perfectly fine to refuse them. I am a little puzzled by the categorical nature of the balance discussion.

It's just that I'm not trying to change the actual game, just add more options in combat magic usage and give low-path mages more useful spells. Powerful spells "warp" the gameplay to revolve around themselves. The "auto-feeble" spell you suggested would have a single-handedly made the U/W mages most powerful mages ever. I admit that I'm doing some balance changes with this mod, notice how most buffing spells won't work on undead? Inanimates? Mindless? In there lies numereous popular SC chassises, unable to reap the benefits of this mod, perhaps allowing some new contenders in.

So umm.. I need a point. Yeah, I'm not going for a huge change, but for a small one. This mod won't make any excisting stragedy obsolete, but try to raise others on par with them. For example, I'm afraid that "Traveller's Curse" would be too strong against SC's, nulling that stragedy option and thus making the game that less stragedically richer.

[llamabeast]

Do you really want land nations to be more powerful underwater? Is that a considered balance change that you think needs doing?

I am nervous of significant changes like that, because it makes the potential user base rather smaller. However, I'm prone to excessive caution in such things so feel free to take no notice.