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Old December 4th, 2006, 07:15 AM

calmon calmon is offline
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Default Some Old Age Tests

Because i had some bad expierences with old age in a mp game with growth 3 scale (see here) i decided to make some tests.

For the test i used a mod/special map to give me 100 Arco Philosophers and enough gems to cast burden of time.

First Test with Burden of Time
All Scales set to the weak site, death 3, misfurtune 3, etc.
I cast 'Burden of Time' which makes each turn like 12 Turns relating the age.

1. Turn:
100 Philosophers
76 have 1 or more afflictions(!)
24 non afflicted

2. Turn:
67 Philosophers (33 died from disease)
61 have 1 or more afflictions
6 non afflicted

3. Turn:
29 Philosophers
27 afflicted
2 non afflicted

4. Turn:
13 Philosophers
12 afflicted
1 non afflicted

5. Turn:
5 Philosophers
4 afflicted
1 non afflicted

6. Turn:
3 afflicted Philosophers

7. Turn:
All dead

After the 2. Turn (24 Turns without Burden of Time) most of my philosophers have at least 1 affliction (only 6 from 100 non afflicted!)

After 3 Turns 71% of my philosophers are dead. Without Burden of Time it would be after 36 Turns.

It seems disease is a very popular old age affliction here.

Second Test with Burden of Time
All Scales set to the strong site, growth 3, luck 3, etc.
I cast 'Burden of Time' which makes each turn like 12 Turns relating the age.

1. Turn:
100 Philosophers
34 have 1 or more afflictions
66 non afflicted

2. Turn:
95 Philosophers (5 died from disease)
70 have 1 or more afflictions
25 non afflicted

3. Turn:
77 Philosophers
69 afflicted
8 non afflicted

4. Turn:
54 Philosophers
49 afflicted
5 non afflicted

5. Turn:
44 Philosophers
40 afflicted
4 non afflicted

6. Turn: 38 Philosophers, 3 non-afflicted
7. Turn: 32 Philosophers, 3 non-afflicted
8. Turn: 30 Philosophers, 3 non-afflicted
9. Turn: 23 Philosophers, 1 non-afflicted
10. Turn: 22 Philosophers, all afflicted
11. Turn: 18 Philosophers
12. Turn: 16 Philosophers
13. Turn: 14 Philosophers
14. Turn: 10 Philosophers
Stop test

After the 3. Turn (36 Turns without Burden of Time) most of my philosophers have at least 1 affliction

After 4 Turns 46% of my philosophers are dead (48 Turns without Burden of Time).

It seems disease is a less popular here (Because there are many afflicted but less dead philosophers/year)

Even with Growth 3 nearly the half of the old age die after 4 Years.

'Burden of Time', a Level 5 Thaumatorgy Spell is death to each nation with primary old age mages/researchers.

I'll do some more test in time.

Third Test with Burden of Time
All Scales set to normal.
I cast 'Burden of Time' which makes each turn like 12 Turns relating the age.

1. Turn:
100 Philosophers
45 have 1 or more afflictions
55 non afflicted

2. Turn:
92 Philosophers (8 died from disease)
64 have 1 or more afflictions
28 non afflicted

3. Turn:
66 Philosophers
52 afflicted
14 non afflicted

4. Turn:
43 Philosophers
35 afflicted
8 non afflicted

5. Turn:
28 Philosophers
24 afflicted
4 non afflicted

6. Turn: 18 Philosophers, 1 non-afflicted
7. Turn: 10 Philosophers, all afflicted
8. Turn: 5 Philosophers
9. Turn: 4 Philosophers
10. Turn: 4 Philosophers
11. Turn: 3 Philosophers
12. Turn: 3 Philosophers
13. Turn: 2 Philosophers
14. Turn: 1 Philosopher
Stop test

After the 3. Turn (36 Turns without Burden of Time) most of my philosophers have at least 1 affliction (14 from 100 non aflicted)

After 4 Turns 57% of my philosophers are dead (48 Turns without Burden of Time).

4th December Edit
Ok, i remade the Tests 1-3, now without 'burden of time' and the results are different!

All Start in Turn 1 with 100 Philosophers, i checked after each full year (every 12 turns)

Test 1
All with bad scales, Death 3, etc.
Turn 13: 100 Philosophers, 73 non-afflicted
Turn 25: 88 Philosophers, 56 non-afflicted
Turn 37: 75 Philosophers, 38 non-afflicted
Turn 49: 61 Philosophers, 26 non-afflicted
Turn 61: 48 Philosophers, 19 non-afflicted
Turn 73: 44 Philosophers, 14 non-afflicted
Turn 85: 38 Philosophers, 10 non-afflicted
Turn 97: 29 Philosophers, 7 non-afflicted
Turn 109: 22 Philosophers, 6 non-afflicted
Turn 121: 21 Philosophers, 5 non-afflicted

Test 2
All with good scales, Growth 3, etc.
Turn 13: 100 Philosophers, 89 non-afflicted
Turn 25: 95 Philosophers, 72 non-afflicted
Turn 37: 87 Philosophers, 60 non-afflicted
Turn 49: 80 Philosophers, 53 non-afflicted
Turn 61: 73 Philosophers, 43 non-afflicted
Turn 73: 67 Philosophers, 37 non-afflicted
Turn 85: 59 Philosophers, 23 non-afflicted
Turn 97: 51 Philosophers, 17 non-afflicted
Turn 109: 48 Philosophers, 12 non-afflicted
Turn 121: 43 Philosophers, 12 non-afflicted

Test 3
All with neutral scales
Turn 13: 100 Philosophers, 74 non-afflicted
Turn 25: 82 Philosophers, 54 non-afflicted
Turn 37: 74 Philosophers, 40 non-afflicted
Turn 49: 64 Philosophers, 33 non-afflicted
Turn 61: 56 Philosophers, 28 non-afflicted
Turn 73: 50 Philosophers, 24 non-afflicted
Turn 85: 42 Philosophers, 18 non-afflicted
Turn 97: 37 Philosophers, 12 non-afflicted
Turn 109: 31 Philosophers, 7 non-afflicted
Turn 121: 25 Philosophers, 6 non-afflicted

So after 60 Turns (5 years) i completly lost 52 Philosophers with all bad scales, 44 with neutral and just 27 with good Scales.

So it seems 'Burden of Time' gives extra Afflictions in additional to the 1 turn=1 year feature.

5th December Edit
Ok, new tests. This one is very interesting!

I use normal scales and the province has

- 100 philosophers (i want to compare the result with my older tests, 9 HP)
- 100 Anathement Dragon (Fire 3, 11 HP)
- 100 Grand Thaumaturgs (Death 2, Astral 2, 1 Random, Holy 3, 8 HP)

Here are the results:
(number of living units every turn)

Test 4
Turn 13: 100 Philosophers, 100 Anathemant Dragon, 100 Grand Thaumaturgs
Turn 25: 83 Philosophers, 78 Anathemant Dragon, 100 Grand Thaumaturgs
Turn 37: 74 Philosophers, 64 Anathemant Dragon, 98 Grand Thaumaturgs
Turn 49: 67 Philosophers, 57 Anathemant Dragon, 91 Grand Thaumaturgs
Turn 61: 57 Philosophers, 41 Anathemant Dragon, 88 Grand Thaumaturgs
Turn 73: 51 Philosophers, 32 Anathemant Dragon, 86 Grand Thaumaturgs
Turn 85: 42 Philosophers, 27 Anathemant Dragon, 85 Grand Thaumaturgs
Turn 97: 36 Philosophers, 19 Anathemant Dragon, 84 Grand Thaumaturgs
Turn 109: 32 Philosophers, 18 Anathemant Dragon, 82 Grand Thaumaturgs
Turn 121: 28 Philosophers, 14 Anathemant Dragon, 79 Grand Thaumaturgs

Non-Afflicted at the end:
4 Philosophers, 2 Anathemant Dragon and 22 Grand Thaumaturgs

While philosophers get an equal result like my former test (25 on turn 121 there on normal scales) only 14 Anathemant Dragons survived. So either Fire 3 or the lower Old Age entry date 32 (compared to 50 Philosophers) has a negative effect here.

Grand Thaumaturgs has like the Philosophers 50 as Old Age entry date. Only 21 out of 100 died within the 6 years testing time. So death 2 and/or holy 3 (maybe the astral 2) has a significant effect to get no disease affliction. Afflictions in general are fewer (22 non afflicted at the end).


6th December Edit
Another test to compare different old age characters:

- Crone (Death 1, Old Age 500, 9 HP)
- Arch Theurg (Air 1, Water 1, Astral 4, Some Random Magic (no death/nature), Old Age 50, 8 HP)
- Warlock (Astral 2, Blood 3, Random Magic (No death/nature), Old Age 35, 13 HP)
- Anathemant Salamander (Fire 2, Holy 2, Old Age 33, 13 HP)
- Grand Master (Fire 3, Astral 2, Random Magic (No death/nature), Holy 2, Old Age 44, 8 HP)
- Augur Elder (Fire 2, Death 2, Random Magic (no nature), Old Age 44, 9 HP)

All scales set to normal, here are the results:

Test 5
Turn 13: 100 Crone, 100 Arch Theurg, 100 Warlock, 100 Anathemant Salamander, 100 Grand Master, 100 Augur Elder
Turn 25: 91 Crone, 85 Arch Theurg, 86 Warlock, 87 Anathemant Salamander, 84 Grand Master, 97 Augur Elder
Turn 37: 86 Crone, 71 Arch Theurg, 65 Warlock, 71 Anathemant Salamander, 73 Grand Master, 93 Augur Elder
Turn 49: 80 Crone, 65 Arch Theurg, 48 Warlock, 55 Anathemant Salamander, 62 Grand Master, 90 Augur Elder
Turn 61: 73 Crone, 53 Arch Theurg, 39 Warlock, 44 Anathemant Salamander, 50 Grand Master, 85 Augur Elder
Turn 73: 67 Crone, 48 Arch Theurg, 32 Warlock, 33 Anathemant Salamander, 43 Grand Master, 83 Augur Elder
Turn 85: 61 Crone, 44 Arch Theurg, 24 Warlock, 23 Anathemant Salamander, 37 Grand Master, 80 Augur Elder
Turn 97: 57 Crone, 34 Arch Theurg, 21 Warlock, 21 Anathemant Salamander, 30 Grand Master, 77 Augur Elder
Turn 109: 55 Crone, 28 Arch Theurg, 21 Warlock, 18 Anathemant Salamander, 25 Grand Master, 75 Augur Elder
Turn 121: 47 Crone, 24 Arch Theurg, 19 Warlock, 13 Anathemant Salamander, 22 Grand Master, 70 Augur Elder

Afflictions:
Turn 13: 19 afflicted Crone, 29 afflicted Arch Theurg, 34 afflicted Warlock, 26 afflicted Anathemant Salamander, 25 afflicted Grand Master, 13 afflicted Augur Elder

Turn 121: 13 non-afflicted Crone, 4 non-afflicted Arch Theurg, 1 non-afflicted Warlock, 1 non-afflicted Anathemant Salamander, 6 non-afflicted Grand Master, 20 non-afflicted Augur Elder

The low Old Age Entry Date of the Warlock and Anathemant Salamander didn't let them survive for long. Equal results like the Anathemant dragons in the former test. Warlocks without any Fire Magic die the same way. So only the Old Age counts.

The Arch Theurgs are like the Philosophers, no significant difference. Holy, etc. don't have any effect.

The Grand Masters are between the Arch Teurs and the Warlocks/Anathemants.

The Augur Elders have the same Death 2 like the Grand Thaumaturgs (+ random death). 70 survided compared with 79 Grand Thaumaturgs. Old Age 44 (instead 50) may be the difference.

The old age of 500 didn't give the crones a visible bonus. The 47 survived Crones seems normal for a death 1 unit.
So a crone with an age of 697 coming in the game has a very big chance of dieing on old age within 10 years gametime. How they went so old outsite the game?
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  #2  
Old December 4th, 2006, 08:21 AM
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Default Re: Some Old Age Tests

Fantastic idea! 48 turns for 50% chance of death is bad, but 48 turns is a long time, but that was with good scales. Could you do a test with neutral scales as well?

Also, if you have time, could you perform the same test with
A) Anthemant Dragons (86) of MA Abysia, 42/32 years
B) magicless Crones (249), 750/500 years or so.
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Old December 4th, 2006, 08:36 AM
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Default Re: Some Old Age Tests

Nice work,

Better do not use "Burden of Time", though:
As long as it is not 100% clear
- when the aging rolls are done
- what the additional aging from "BoT" does in conjunction with the new aging rules
it most likely will get you skewed results.

Better set up a MP game with 2 human players and simply hit "generate turn" for the wanted number of turns.
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Old December 4th, 2006, 08:52 AM

calmon calmon is offline
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Default Re: Some Old Age Tests

Thanks for the responds!

- Third test with normal scales is added.
- I'll do some more test with other units (Abysia, etc.)
- I'll try the philosophers test without 'burden of time' to see the differences.
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Old December 4th, 2006, 09:58 AM
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Default Re: Some Old Age Tests

calmon--awesome. Thanks. Gives us a much clearer idea of the effects of old age, and how it works over time.
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Old December 4th, 2006, 12:43 PM
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Default Re: Some Old Age Tests


Last I recall from Dominions_2... burden of time will give random afflictions which I imagine applies to units which are not old. Also I remember burden of time will just flat out kill units/commanders sometimes even those fully healthy.
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Old December 4th, 2006, 12:51 PM
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Default Re: Some Old Age Tests

Quote:
NTJedi said:

Last I recall from Dominions_2... burden of time will give random afflictions which I imagine applies to units which are not old. Also I remember burden of time will just flat out kill units/commanders sometimes even those fully healthy.
Burden of Time has changed. There is now a system for aging, so Burden of Time uses it.
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Old December 4th, 2006, 02:07 PM

FrankTrollman FrankTrollman is offline
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Default Re: Some Old Age Tests

Curious... how did characters die from a disease on turn 2? Even if they started with a disease, they'd still be alive on turn 2 because they'd have only lost 1 hit point.

What's going on there?

-Frank
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Old December 4th, 2006, 02:09 PM

calmon calmon is offline
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Default Re: Some Old Age Tests

Burden of Time is in effect:

1 Turn now represent 1 year (12 Month)
Disease costs 1 Life each MONTH
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Old December 4th, 2006, 02:48 PM
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Default Re: Some Old Age Tests


So burden of time now only causes units to age more quickly ?
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