Eater of the Dead

quantum_mechani said:Still, such things are pretty rare (particularly for a specific spell) and are unlikely to have the same impact on a game as being able to spend astrals on eater of the dead vs. if you had no other astral summons.

I don't think even that counts for the Eater. Before i'd summon an Eater for 50 gems i'd turn them into 25 death gems and get two Banelords or 50 longdead horsemen or heck, 2.5 behemoths. If you can summon the Eater, you can summon all of those as well.
I think it's a pretty good hint that a summon is really, terribly weak if you can alchemize the gems it needs and get something much better for them.
Ritual and non-ritual spells are hard to compare, but i say the eater of the dead is hands down the worst summon in the game and very likely the worst ritual.

That being said, the stealth idea is pretty good imo. Make the eater stronger at independent size (give it some more HP, and better regeneration, poison cloud etc. basically a natural thug if not SC) make it stealthy (and still grow) and reduce costs to 15 or maybe even ten. So, compared to ghost riders it has the disadvantage that you can't artillery cast it, and it needs to grow a lot before it has comparable strenght, but the advantage is that it stays in a province and needs to be killed to regain control. (and you could use it in an army too. Theoretically) Imo that'd be a lot more interesting than just turning it into a cost efficient standard summon. It'd be fun to have some kind of near-unstoppable rampaging monster you first feed up to decent size, then let it sneak into the midsts of enemy territory and let it loose.

[Ighalli]

I definately like the idea of adding stealth and making it spawn additional eaters when it becomes unfettered. As far as I'm concerned, the nastier the thing is, the better! Hopefully CB will make the eater properly fearsome.

[KissBlade]

Dhaeron said:

I don't think even that counts for the Eater. Before i'd summon an Eater for 50 gems i'd turn them into 25 death gems and get two Banelords or 50 longdead horsemen or heck, 2.5 behemoths. If you can summon the Eater, you can summon all of those as well.
I think it's a pretty good hint that a summon is really, terribly weak if you can alchemize the gems it needs and get something much better for them.
Ritual and non-ritual spells are hard to compare, but i say the eater of the dead is hands down the worst summon in the game and very likely the worst ritual.

That being said, the stealth idea is pretty good imo. Make the eater stronger at independent size (give it some more HP, and better regeneration, poison cloud etc. basically a natural thug if not SC) make it stealthy (and still grow) and reduce costs to 15 or maybe even ten. So, compared to ghost riders it has the disadvantage that you can't artillery cast it, and it needs to grow a lot before it has comparable strenght, but the advantage is that it stays in a province and needs to be killed to regain control. (and you could use it in an army too. Theoretically) Imo that'd be a lot more interesting than just turning it into a cost efficient standard summon. It'd be fun to have some kind of near-unstoppable rampaging monster you first feed up to decent size, then let it sneak into the midsts of enemy territory and let it loose.

The eater is stronger than two banelords, 50 horsies or 2.5 behemoths. This I guarantee you.

[Shovah32]

And less controllable, and easier to magic to death.

[KissBlade]

heh magic resistance 18 if I recall so not that easy anymore.

[johan osterman]

Go play arund with it. It has a few tricks up it's sleave that is not readily apparent.

[B0rsuk]

johan osterman said:
Go play arund with it. It has a few tricks up it's sleave that is not readily apparent.

It certainly has the ability to confuse newbies, and make them post frustrated threads on Dominions3 forum. So expect a steady flow of very short threads complaining about Eater of the Dead. It's a passive ability, and the effect lasts for about 2 years. * **

* assuming that Dominions4 is ever made, it will probably take about 2 years.
** unless the creature description is changed in one of future patches to make its strengths more apparent

[johan osterman]

Well it turns out it was bugged, so go play around with it some more after the first patch.

[NTJedi]

KissBlade said:
The eater is stronger than two banelords, 50 horsies or 2.5 behemoths. This I guarantee you.

Your guarantee is not so strong... I ran some tests on the eater of the dead. It's stronger than 2 banelords without equipment, but 40 normal archers with no help killed the beast with minor losses(less than 10). Not mentioned, but still an interesting measurement. Viewing the battle I estimate 30 archers could even have won.
Then I tested those 50 undead horsemen you mention which slaughtered the creature... another test revealed even 20 of the undead horsemen easily killed the creature with minor losses(less than 5).

Another weakness of the eater of the undead from my testing revealed that only one of these can exist within a game. If another is summoned then POOF the other vanishes the same as the DJinn. No testing was done on the behemoth.

The creature has been improved from dominions_2 yet my testing rates it's value at only 11 astral.

[KissBlade]

NTJedi said:

Your guarantee is not so strong... I ran some tests on the eater of the dead. It's stronger than 2 banelords without equipment, but 40 normal archers with no help killed the beast with minor losses(less than 10). Not mentioned, but still an interesting measurement. Viewing the battle I estimate 30 archers could even have won.
Then I tested those 50 undead horsemen you mention which slaughtered the creature... another test revealed even 20 of the undead horsemen easily killed the creature with minor losses(less than 5).

Another weakness of the eater of the undead from my testing revealed that only one of these can exist within a game. If another is summoned then POOF the other vanishes the same as the DJinn. No testing was done on the behemoth.

The creature has been improved from dominions_2 yet my testing rates it's value at only 11 astral.

I think you should run some tests of undead horsies against some priests since that's what's going to happen to pale riders at that stage of the game ... I didn't mean to put all those units in the arena and say, "ROUND ONE FIGHT!"