Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !

Epoletov___SPR · #1 August 17th, 2008, 02:38 PM

To increase cost VH even up to 999, now 250 points.

deveen · #2 August 17th, 2008, 09:46 PM

Hi all. Just to introduce myself, I've been playing (and enjoying) SP for awhile now, more WW2, but MBT as well. Thank you all involved in the development of the games.

I have a few comments/question about possible features to the game:

1. Engineer tanks/bulldozers - could it be made for these to be able to push destroyed vehicles from one hex to the next one? Many times a vehicle or a number of them get destroyed and block a road, for example. I've been reading here about limited time of the battle, but I don't mean this as a recovery operation, but rather as a real battle situation. So, for example, one tank gets destroyed, blocks a road, but behind him there is a dozer tank who just moves him over to the side. I believe even in real life this would take a short time to do.

2. Bridge layers - I've seen there was some talk about it, but haven't seen any conclusion. I have had many missions played in the terrain crossed with small streams (one hex) which can get your vehicle immobilized (unless you go over -1 fords; there are just few of these all over the length of the stream). It would be great if somehow bridge could be erected over these short spans.

3. Tank transport - what's the use for these? I've never used them in a game. Is it possible to transport an immobilized tank this way?

Just as a general comment, I prefer playing with breakdowns on, it's much more realistic, but I would enjoy it even more if the things mentioned above could be incorporated into the game. Once again, thanks to everyone developing this wonderful game.

Marcello · #3 August 18th, 2008, 01:31 PM

"1. Engineer tanks/bulldozers - could it be made for these to be able to push destroyed vehicles from one hex to the next one? Many times a vehicle or a number of them get destroyed and block a road, for example. I've been reading here about limited time of the battle, but I don't mean this as a recovery operation, but rather as a real battle situation. So, for example, one tank gets destroyed, blocks a road, but behind him there is a dozer tank who just moves him over to the side. I believe even in real life this would take a short time to do."

You can, if you want, give an engineer tank enough carry capacity
to load another tank. Any other way to implement this would be impossible or too difficult to be worth it.

"2. Bridge layers - I've seen there was some talk about it, but haven't seen any conclusion. I have had many missions played in the terrain crossed with small streams (one hex) which can get your vehicle immobilized (unless you go over -1 fords; there are just few of these all over the length of the stream). It would be great if somehow bridge could be erected over these short spans."

This has been discussed for years, even before these forums were created.Same answer as above.

"3. Tank transport - what's the use for these? I've never used them in a game. Is it possible to transport an immobilized tank this way?"

IIRC yes. What's the use for these? Well they exist in real life, so why not?

Epoletov___SPR · #4 August 18th, 2008, 04:13 PM

Quote:

3. Tank transport - what's the use for these? I've never used them in a game. Is it possible to transport an immobilized tank this way?

You can transport the tank with crew inside.
I remember, what disappointment when the empty tank could not be taken away from a battlefield by this machine was.

Well to correct this lack.

deveen · #5 August 18th, 2008, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcello

"1. Engineer tanks/bulldozers - could it be made for these to be able to push destroyed vehicles from one hex to the next one? Many times a vehicle or a number of them get destroyed and block a road, for example. I've been reading here about limited time of the battle, but I don't mean this as a recovery operation, but rather as a real battle situation. So, for example, one tank gets destroyed, blocks a road, but behind him there is a dozer tank who just moves him over to the side. I believe even in real life this would take a short time to do."

You can, if you want, give an engineer tank enough carry capacity
to load another tank. Any other way to implement this would be impossible or too difficult to be worth it.

Yeah, I understand that, but the thing with carry capacity wouldn't be possible for destroyed tanks, right? And I guess any other way would be too difficult... Too bad. Thanks for the answers.

PanzerBob · #6 August 19th, 2008, 01:52 AM

In regards to your removal of wreckage question, I believe it has been an issue of time frame and scope of the game. I'm sure if Engineering Vehicles were given to ability to move wrecks, next folks would want them to dig hull down positions etc.

Frankly in modern combat an ARV type vehicle would be an expensive and hard to replace asset to put into real harms way to open a road in the time frame our battles occur. These assets do that stuff later once the frontlines are far removed from the offending vehicle. I feel your pain brother! More than once has a bridge as a great example, had brewed up armour sitting on it slowing my race across to secure to other side. I've thought, " If only I could order someone to "push that junk off the bridge!" alla Col Hessler.

As for bridge layers, I do believe they could be cobbled together using barge carriers and barges, something which is in my long list of things to do. If I manage this I will post for sure. Again I believe the game scope has made it a non issue and besides if needed a bridge can be laid and regular stone bridge could double as such, MAYBE someone could add a bailey type bridge into the bridge types for building maps, that would make me happy. I have in the past used a rail bridge as a Bailey.

Tank Transporters, can be handy to move slow tanks to the battle area and move damaged ones to the rear. This might be useful especially in a campaign. Personally you’d need a large map and likely a scenario in the 40’s or 50’s to make these worthwhile because in a modern battlefield these would high value interdiction targets.

The other reason for their inclusion would be for scenario building. I suppose one could use this argument for the inclusion of bridge layers as well.

Man, I love this game!!!!

thatguy96 · #7 August 29th, 2008, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PanzerBob

As for bridge layers, I do believe they could be cobbled together using barge carriers and barges, something which is in my long list of things to do.

This does not work, at least for bridging actual water hexes. I've tried it many times myself. A single water hex will be ringed with 6 "shore" hexes. While a barge can unload onto shore without moving into the shore hex, it must be actually on the shore hex to load the unit. Therefore the "bridge" requires at least 1 point of water movement. A craft in water without at least one point of water movement sinks anyhow, further compounding the problem. I'm not sure if the barge script allows the unloading of a unit into an adjacent hex when on a "land" hex of some sort (such as a stream or canal hex). However, it would not be able to load a vehicle unless it were in the same hex (I believe), which would also render the concept pointless. Lastly, to add in an AVLB "barge carrier," one would have to overwrite the default "barge" unit in the OOB with a bridge, removing the option to buy basic barges.

In short, I think we're stuck with barges and GSP-like items. Things like the GSP "ferry" bridge section exist in a number of armies, and are much more feasible than actual bridges.

TLAM_Strike · #8 August 29th, 2008, 02:40 PM

I was thinking about the larger sea going LSTs that can carry 10-15 MBTs and 600 troops and was wondering if there was any way to add that.

For example if a unit has a carry capacity of 450 it can carry 150 pts of units with no size restriction, 550 is 250 etc.

deveen · #9 August 30th, 2008, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatguy96

A single water hex will be ringed with 6 "shore" hexes. While a barge can unload onto shore without moving into the shore hex, it must be actually on the shore hex to load the unit. Therefore the "bridge" requires at least 1 point of water movement. A craft in water without at least one point of water movement sinks anyhow, further compounding the problem.

What about streams/fords? Have you tried that?

Marcello · #10 August 19th, 2008, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Yeah, I understand that, but the thing with carry capacity wouldn't be possible for destroyed tanks, right? And I guess any other way would be too difficult... Too bad. Thanks for the answers.

Reading again I relized that I confused "destroyed" for "immobilized". Immobilized vehicles can be removed by any unit with sufficient carry capacity.
Removing destroyed vehicles has not been discussed, not to the same extent as some other topics at any rate. I am not sure that a burning 60 tons wreck, with the ammo going off and perhaps blocked tracks due to the heat playing tricks with the automotive components is something that can be just casually pushed around but then I have never been there and done that. You might try to ask on tanknet and see what they tell you.

In regards to bridge layers there is for example a neat GSP ferry icon, n.3228, which looks quite like a pontoon bridge although it would have to be used as a ferry (which is exactly what it is in real life anyway). Here is a drawing:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/army/...s/Image192.gif