YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [7/24 players left]

[Psycho]

Originally Posted by 13lackGu4rd

not just giants but pretty much all heavy bless/thug nations, including Mictlan, Lanka, Yomi, etc... also EA doesn't have as good national armies as later eras, so getting stuck with them for too long, especially if not a bless nation, you're at a severe disadvantage. thinking mainly about Ermor, Ulm, C'tis, Marverni, etc...

I was hoping for something more insightful than this conventional wisdom.

[Squirrelloid]

Its conventional wisdom because its true. People complain about bless rush nations even at normal research settings. Arguably an EA RAND game should be set to easy research, since there are no diplomatic solutions available.

[Dimaz]

But in YARG1 with hard research settings, early bless rush nations weren't particularly effective.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Dimaz

But in YARG1 with hard research settings, early bless rush nations weren't particularly effective.

*YARG1 was LA. LA has less exceedingly good early bless rush nations, so the problem is smaller. And many of the potential bless rush nations also have other interesting things they can choose to do.
*I am forced to conclude nations like Mictlan were played by total n00bs if that is the case. (I did not play in YARG1, I do not know how it turned out, but if Mictlan failed to kill someone fast under difficult research, then they sucked.)

[13lackGu4rd]

Originally Posted by Dimaz

But in YARG1 with hard research settings, early bless rush nations weren't particularly effective.

conventional wisdom, perhaps, but you failed to understand it there's a huge difference between EA and LA... not only does EA have a lot more bless rush nations, it also has much weaker national armies which means that all nations are more reliant on magic than in LA. so with hard research in EA, nations without good sacreds are at an even larger disadvantage because they can't rush research fast enough to compete with a nation with bless rush potential.

yes, I know that the difference between the eras is conventional wisdom, it even says so in the guide itself... so it either slipped your mind or for some reason you failed to grasp it

[WingedDog]

There are indies 9 out there, aren't they slowing rushes a bit?

[WraithLord]

Ahmm, we shall see as the game progresses how effective indeed are the bless nations under these research settings.

This discussion is being conducted on too many general lines. Like bless nations like this and EA nations are that, etc. Not all bless nations are same, not all EA nations armies are same. There's a lot of room for nuances.

Hvy bless is very good early in the game and later gives diminishing returns. This is always true, no argument here.
With hard research it would seem as though the "early" game takes longer thus favoring bless nations.
However, to counter that are: a- bless nations struggle even more with research and b- If you don't have a bless nation and prepare for hard research you can get to the key spells your nation needs real fast. Like take awake research pretender +M2/3 scales.

Let's see what conclusions we'll be able to draw from this game. If we find that bless nations ruled the day I will certainly consider hard research a mistake. Meantime I ask for your patience. Let the game develop a bit before reaching conclusions.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by WingedDog

There are indies 9 out there, aren't they slowing rushes a bit?

Indies 9 hurts nations who have a rougher time of early expansion under normal conditions far more than it hurts nations who have an easy time expanding. Bless rush nations should hardly be slowed.

[WingedDog]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Indies 9 hurts nations who have a rougher time of early expansion under normal conditions far more than it hurts nations who have an easy time expanding. Bless rush nations should hardly be slowed.

According to scoregraphs of this game Mictlan, Lanka and Hinnom do not expand as fast as C'tis and Arco do so far.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by WingedDog

According to scoregraphs of this game Mictlan, Lanka and Hinnom do not expand as fast as C'tis and Arco do so far.

Of course, I see you were careful to omit Niefl.

I can't really say anything without drawing conclusions from the scoregraphs, which is saying too much, at this point.