Can someone tell me about Machaka? - Page 7

Amorphous · #1 February 18th, 2010, 07:59 AM

Black Hunters cost 80 and Spider Riders 30 in the latest CBM.
In vanilla, it is 125 and 50 respectively.

At least with a minor nature bless, 4 Black Hunters do better than 10 Spider Riders. From what I can remember, 3 was a bit too close. The chance of losing one is much greater than with 4 and going with just 2 does not really work, so you need to reinforce before you can continue.

chrispedersen · #2 February 18th, 2010, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vfb

I'm pretty sure mindless units dissolve on turn 50 whether they are berserk or not.

I don't like to hire the sorceresses because the (also) cap-only sorcerers are so much better.

Vfb:

I am very sure that I have gone 75 with a berserk mindless. I may be wrong. But I'm sure =).

Secondly, I've seen a few instances where mindless units can route. For example, set one up with quickness, and boots of flying. If they get to the edge of the board on their first action I believe they will route ok.

Jarkko · #3 February 18th, 2010, 08:03 AM

Right, Black Spiders are now 80 gold a piece. However, 36 resources makes it difficult to recruit more than a couple in the early turns.

Amorphous · #4 February 18th, 2010, 08:14 AM

You do not need more than a couple.

The first expansion party is reasonably made up of ordinary spiders, but as soon as you have taken an adjacent province or two, it is not hard to come up with the resources. I usually play Machaka with sloth 3 and manage it just fine.

BigDaddy · #5 February 18th, 2010, 11:28 AM

I just played Machaka in 2 player. I took production scales. I devoured the map. I don't think that there is another race that I have played that can make indy taking forces so quickly. I'm sure I could have fielded 5/turn if it was MP with indy commanders draining into my capital.

My setup might have been crappy in MP, however, because I chose a Lich to with just death magic and was racing to well of misery + tartarian gate. He never evem got out of prison before the hunter lord, 7 black hunters, and 53ish spider riders broke his main force. I was spreading across the ocean with the crazy cash and never -needed- a second castle.

The magic path was a gamble, because I could have gone with construction and then to flaming arrows. But, after the third turn, I could tell that even if he could field a force of mages with which to kill significant numbers of spiders, I strongly doubted he could hold many of his provinces while doing it. He did have some evo, but when I took a first castle I paused and gathered for 3 or 4 turns and had way too many spiders even for his paladin spearhead.

If I were him, I would have probably avoided that direct confrontation. But its hard in 2 player; I didn't have anything to do more important than concentrate on kicking his ***.

Or maybe I could have taken sever opponents of guard and conquered the world with their gems... especially if I could take out Ermor... how sweet thy gem site ermor...

I don't think we made it to turn 30.

chrispedersen · #6 February 18th, 2010, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDaddy

I just played Machaka in 2 player. I took production scales. I devoured the map. I don't think that there is another race that I have played that can make indy taking forces so quickly. I'm sure I could have fielded 5/turn if it was MP with indy commanders draining into my capital.

My setup might have been crappy in MP, however, because I chose a Lich to with just death magic and was racing to well of misery + tartarian gate. He never evem got out of prison before the hunter lord, 7 black hunters, and 53ish spider riders broke his main force. I was spreading across the ocean with the crazy cash and never -needed- a second castle.

The magic path was a gamble, because I could have gone with construction and then to flaming arrows. But, after the third turn, I could tell that even if he could field a force of mages with which to kill significant numbers of spiders, I strongly doubted he could hold many of his provinces while doing it. He did have some evo, but when I took a first castle I paused and gathered for 3 or 4 turns and had way too many spiders even for his paladin spearhead.

If I were him, I would have probably avoided that direct confrontation. But its hard in 2 player; I didn't have anything to do more important than concentrate on kicking his ***.

Or maybe I could have taken sever opponents of guard and conquered the world with their gems... especially if I could take out Ermor... how sweet thy gem site ermor...

I don't think we made it to turn 30.

Yah; two player is very different than mp. As you say you don't have to worry about flanks, multiple armies. He who destroys the other's main army first usually wins.

BigDaddy · #7 February 19th, 2010, 12:36 AM

The hunters are awesome, and the knights are nice, but, really, the riders are all you need, plus the archer dies faster than the armored dude you get otherwise, and that takes the upkeep away faster, which leads to more spiders faster.

I just get this vision of spiders just flowing off the sacred mountaintop... ha, scales...

KissBlade · #8 February 19th, 2010, 10:56 AM

Are we talking about CBM or non?

BigDaddy · #9 February 19th, 2010, 11:49 AM

Yes, CBM.

Why is did you have something to say about non-CBM?

I assume that since things cost half as much in CBM that the cost of the spiders made it necessary to take scales.

Ink · #10 February 19th, 2010, 02:26 PM

with CBM:

the reduced cost of spider riders has made them available for using as a workhorse unit. Machaka can depend on them rather than requiring something like the Colossal Fetish (something which will only become quickly useless as the game moves into midgame).

thus, DONT take a colossal fetish, rather go for a rainbow to provide paths/combinations needed for Machaka to have a chance in late game, and really good scales for Machaka to recruit the hell out of spider riders/knights.

Crone:
E1S3N4D4 (or something like that, give S for diversity and the other paths for missing combinations to forge key items)
Dom6-7 (good dom for good scales)
O3P3H3L-1G3M1 (max income dom)
asleep

recruit spider riders/knights and build lots of forts to boost reasearch (this is why you have such good scales)
research site searching
research evo to 5 or 6 for battle magic
research const to 8 for artifacts
research conj

havn't really tried this out in any real gameplay (ie MP), but it looks like the tack I would take with Machaka now.